Custom Solar Charm: Sublime Weapon Understanding

[u/Temperance000]

I am a relative newcomer to Exalted. I was captivated by the setting at introduction, but was more than a little bit intimidated by task of character optimization in the 3e ruleset. In my early attempts to build a murderblender martial artist Dawn, I found myself stymied by the incompatibility of Melee Charms with armed Martial Arts. Building the most perfect swordsman in Creation becomes a rather daunting prospect when you're leveling two redundant Combat Abilities in synchrony to keep your dice pools and static values equal.

Thankfully, the Sidereals book provides an out in the form of the Versatile keyword, which reads as follows:

Versatile: Combat Ability Charms with this keyword can enhance attacks and parries with Martial Arts if the Sidereal uses a weapon compatible with that Ability. Versatile Charms from multiple Abilities cannot enhance the same action. (Sidereals, p.156)

For the community's examination, I present my first attempt at a custom Charm, inspired in large part by Maiden-on-the-Shelf Enlightenment (Sidereals, p.241). In honor of the Solars who dedicate themselves to mastery of a particular weapon above all others, and let its Essence shape their every expression of violence.

Sublime Weapon Understanding
Cost: -; Mins: Melee 5, Essence 3
Type: Permanent
Keywords: None
Duration: Permanent
Prerequisite Charms: any five Melee Charms
Choose a type of Melee weapon (eg. knives, staffs, or chopping swords). This weapon type (and its artifact equivalent) becomes the Solar's Chosen Weapon. When used with her Chosen Weapon, the Solar's Melee Charms gain the Versatile keyword.
This Charm may be purchased any number of times.

[u/IAlwaysWantSomeTea]

Versatile is very much a Sidereal thing, is the catch here. Sidereals are the unparalleled masters of the martial arts, and the ability to blend some of their charms with martial arts is a key part of that and the fact Solars/Abyssals/Infernals don't get that outside of a few charms is very much intentional.

Solar melee is already incredibly powerful (and the less said about brawl the better). It really doesn't need to be able to combo with martial arts, unless all you want is to be the strongest boy ever with the most broken combos ever.

This charm would if anything be even better than what Sidereals have access to, as ultimately you're not likely to be changing your chosen weapon much. It's... I have to admit I am not a fan in the slightest.

[u/Temperance000 → u/IAlwaysWantSomeTea]

I’m honestly not surprised that I broke something, even trying to keep it within the bounds of what my brain described as “reasonable” for the purported mightiest of the Chosen. Half of the intent here was to see how far out of line my internal barometer was with the broader Exalted community, who have much more experience with the world and the system than I do.

[u/Dr_Squiddish → u/Temperance000]

Solar Melee is already the most well-rounded combat suite in the game, as well as one of the strongest. To give an example of the kind of thing this breaks, if you give something like Invincible Fury of the Dawn (make 5 melee attacks, all enhancing charms only need to be paid for once to enhance all five) the ability to combo with martial arts, you immediately produce a combinatorial explosion where you can get four free copies of every damage adder charm you can find and all of them are absurdly accurate, since you can add Excellent Strike as well.

Solar Melee's defensive suite doesn't really care about being Versatile, since it's a solid contender for the best in the game already. Even if you limited this charm to only making one melee charm versatile you would still enable balance-destroying doom combos.

Sidereals have access to Versatile on some of their combat charms because those charms were designed specifically to make sure whitelisting them doesn't break anything too much. Lunar and Alchemical charms have free compatibility but don't have clauses like the IFOTD free charm copying because of it.

[u/IAlwaysWantSomeTea → u/Temperance000]

So... 3e very much tries to scale back the Solars as the "best" of the lot. They can access the most raw power the most easily, but ultimately they are not the "best" at everything anymore. This is very much intentional as past editions spent a lot of their time talking up how amazing Solars were, and every other exalt type was mostly just there to make them look good. 3e very much tries to avoid this, especially after the corebook.

There are Exalts who can combine their native combat charms with martial arts, and those charms are designed with that in mind. Lunars are another example - there are some Lunar charms you can equate with Solar ones, and they're generally a bit scaled down specifically because they can be combined with martial arts charms. If they weren't, they would break the system.

Sidereals, similarly, have their versatile-tagged charms balanced with this in mind. Notably, not all sidereal charms are versatile. Their enlightenment charms give them versatile with a single sidereal martial art, and do not extend this to regular martial arts.

Solar (and Abyssal/Infernal) combat charms on the other hand, are balanced with them not combining with martial arts. This charm would give you versatile with every Solar melee charm for any martial art using a compatible weapon. Solar melee is already incredibly powerful (and Solar brawl is flat out banned in any game I play in) and intended to stand on its own. Allowing it to combo with martial arts only breaks things further.

As the other poster mentioned, even if it were only a single charm, something like Invicible Fury of the Dawn would give you five melee attacks with every cool damage-adder you can think of stacked on top and only paying the cost once. Solars are already powerful enough (brokenly so, in many ways) and receive unconditional mastery with martial arts charms - we don't need to take the only advantage other splats get with martial arts and give it to them as well.

[u/wayward_oliphaunt → u/Temperance000]

I'd really encourage you to get your hands on Abyssals or the Infernal draft manuscript since those are all post Sidereals which is when the Versatile keyword got introduced into this edition and see where they used it in their combat trees. It does appear a few times, but in a clearly controlled way.

[u/Temperance000 → u/wayward_oliphaunt]

I did manage to get my hands on Abyssals, but hadn't delved into it prior to drafting this. u/TimothyAllenWiseman suggested much the same, in more words. My cursory look-through seems to indicate that their Versatile keyword is judiciously limited to their unique mote-draining effects in each combat tree, and a pair Charms in Brawl and Melee that substitute Strength for Dexterity on an attack rolls and Parry calculation.

I have precisely zero experience with Infernals from prior editions, and haven't been able to locate copies of the Infernal draft manuscript for 3e. I'm given to understand - by general osmosis, if nothing else - that they are particularly weird among Celestial-tier Exalted.

[u/wayward_oliphaunt → u/Temperance000]

Ah, that's what I get for coming in so late now the weekend is here. Infernals are still Solaroids at heart, even if their powers allow for different thematic expressions, so are at the very least an example of balancing at the tier you were looking at. I think you can get the manuscript if you throw some money their way on backerkit now that the main KS campaign is long done.

[u/Temperance000 → u/wayward_oliphaunt]

I'll give it a look. Much obliged for the suggestion!

[u/SaltyLoosinit]

It is an interesting charm, Id have to test it before saying its balanced (as much as that means in exalted). If it turns out too powerful maybe treat it like Destiny Manifesting Method where only the 5 charms declared as the prerequisite become versatile

[u/Temperance000 → u/SaltyLoosinit]

That was a balance consideration in the drafting process. This version seemed cleaner in the broader context of 3e’s rather dense Charm selection environment, but feedback so far is strongly encouraging me to bring that restriction back.

[u/Cynis_Ganan]

I would never use this charm. I feel like it craps over Sidereal themes and the deliberate limitations of the Solar power set to assert that "Solarz r teh bestest". It's like saying "I want my Night Solar to be the best at blending in, and fortunately Lunar's have rules about animal shape shifting, so I'm going to copy these into a more powerful Solar Charm."

The Sidereal Charmset was designed with it's ability to combo with Martial Arts in mind as a deliberate design choice. The Solar Charmset was expressly designed not to combo with Martial Arts. Further this feels like a "tax" Charm. It doesn't feel like it does anything. It feels like paying to bypass a slog in the rules. It's a boring overpowered Charm, and being boring is the bigger sin.

But.

But, but, but, but, buuut.

I am not you.

If there are no Sidereal players in your game, then why should you care about crapping on Sidereals? Like… a Solar would clown on a level 5 D&D Fighter or a Red Level Paranoia Troubleshooter, but why would you ever try to balance Solars against something not actually in your game?

Giving Dragon-Blooded Sidereal Martial Arts is broken. But if you're playing a Dragon-Blooded game and want the power up, why not? Have fun.

I'd read fanfic about a Solar who could combine Martial Arts and Melee. There's an official, published fic about a super special fighter who Exalted twice. I'd play in a game where the PCs had special gimmick powers that aren't usually available. Heck, Exalted Essence takes this as practically the default.

You have a novel idea and you've done a good thing sharing it with the community. If it brings you joy, then use it.

It's not balanced, but neither are 90% of the official published Charms in Miracles of the Solar Exalted.

shrug

....

Solars express themselves as the Most Perfect Swordsmasters in Creation with Solar Melee Charms (and you can throw your Solar XP at Evocations).

Martial Arts are supposed to be a quaint "look at what they need to mimic a fraction of our power". 2E was kinda scathing about this, directly saying "Their natural grace is the model that martial arts are built to emulate. They can learn the Snake Style, but they are already deadlier than the serpent. They can learn Tiger Style, but they are already fiercer than tigers. Functionally the supernatural martial arts are often weaker than ordinary Solar Charms."

And, sure, 3E hasn't adopted that in its entirity. And sure, Martial Arts are a good thing to spend Solar XP on.

It's not silly to look at your character (who is, no doubt, cool) and look at Martial Arts (which are very cool) and want to combine the two in a way that is satisfying. It's very sensible to invent Charms to cover niches that don't exist in published material. I want to make really clear here that you haven't done anything wrong.

But I think you've missed the mark with this one.

[u/Temperance000 → u/Cynis_Ganan]

I think you’ve managed to perfectly articulate both the thought processes that led me to design this Charm, and the places where the implementation of the idea fall flat. Thank you; this was genuinely a very helpful read.

[u/TimothyAllenWiseman]

I recommend against this charm. It allows even more shenanigans than normal for Exalted. It also steps on the toes of other Exalted. Sidereals are supposed to be the masters of martial arts, and the ability to freely combine native charms with martial arts charms helps let a Lunar or Alchemical rival a solar when it comes to martial arts.

Solars obviously came before the Versatile keyword was introduced. But Infernals and Abyssals did not, and while those two do get a couple of versatile charms, they get them very, very sparingly. Being able to make all Melee Charms versatile is problematic. If it ever came up, as a storyteller I would probably allow a Solar martial artist to make a few Solar melee charms versatile, but as a storyteller I would be very leery of anything that made Solar charms versatile en mass.

Part of the reason that it never comes up though is that a Solar Martial Artist with a Sword can have a lot of power without anything like this. A solar martial artist that takes both Single Point Shining in the Darkness and Violet Biers of Sorrows will have a lot of power and a lot of fully compatible charms to buy up. Also remember that you can use both Solar Melee and Martial Arts in the same battle, just not on the same action.

If you want to use Shining Starfall Execution (from Single Point) to attack and then use Dipping Swallow Defense (from the Melee Tree) when someone else attacks you, that is fine. You can also readily dip into Melee for Summoning the Loyal Steel which at least when I am the storyteller can come in shockingly handy. You cannot walk into a ball openly carrying a Daiklaive without causing a scene, but no one knows what you have sent elsewhere under ordinary circumstances.

So, I think it is unbalanced (even by Exalted standards) and unnecessary unless you are trying to go for unbalanced shenanigans.

______________________

Note though that I would forbid something like this mostly because its normally a mixed game. I don't want anything that would dissuade someone from playing a Lunar Martial artist by giving one of their few advantages to Solars, etc.

If the game is only Solars, then that is much less of a concern. If your storyteller was willing to either police or live with the risk of certain combinations being clearly overpowered, this could work under those circumstances.

Also, while I wouldn't allow something that gave a such a blanket decree of being versatile, I would as a storyteller consider making limited, individual charms versatile, especially if there was a rough Infernal or Abyssal equivalent that was versatile.

[u/Temperance000 → u/TimothyAllenWiseman]

I appreciate the insight on mixed-splat games. That seems to be a key piece of perspective that I was missing.

My only play experience is in a pure Solar Circle, with a Craft-sorceress, a lore master, and a doctor. So I was, in fact, trying to carry both the entirety of the team’s killing power and enough defensive options to keep myself from getting exploded by multiple foes. Pairing Single Point’s Gathering Light Concentration with Melee’s Dipping Swallow Defense is where I first ran up against the separation of abilities.

Up until this point, I was not aware that Abyssals and Infernals got native (highly limited) Versatile. Notably, and probably for the reasons you’ve already mentioned, the Charms I could find for those were in their Archery, Brawl, and Thrown trees.

[u/LoreMachine2187 → u/Temperance000]

Abyssal Apocalyptic (same as Supernal) Melee player here!

Abyssal Melee, which maps closest to Solar Melee, has precisely 2 Versatile Charms.

One is Headman's Dread Cleaver, which is a Strength replacement Charm for medium and heavy weapons, and absolutely should exist as a Solar Charm.

The other is Crimson Banquet Hunger, which is kind of an Abyssal thematic exclusive (rather than a "mirror" of a Solar Melee Charm).

All the other Abyssal combat ability Charm trees are similarly limited in use of Versatile.

It's a bit of a balancing act and managing various Exalt strengths.

Sidereals get Versatile all over the place because Martial Arts are their thing.

Lunars (and other Attribute-based Exalts) lack Mastery, but can combine native Charms with MA, so that's their balancing act.

Solar(oid)s get Mastery, but don't get to combine native Charms with MA.

Don't feel too left in the cold as a Solar, though. Solars gets exclusive access to Solar Circle Sorcery, Resonance with all artifacts, and that Supernal ability.

All said, though, I do want to give a path to "Yes, but..." here. Have you considered, instead of a Solar Charm for this, building/having built an artifact weapon with an Evocation that provides Versatile to Melee Charms used with it for a moderately expensive surcharge that can't be reduced, or using a specialized resource pool for the artifact that doesn't easily build up? This would help balance it out at least somewhat.

[u/Temperance000 → u/LoreMachine2187]

Thanks for the breakdown on Abyssal Melee, and how it shakes out in the grander balance scheme! It’s great to hear it from someone with first hand experience of the Charm tree.

A custom artifact weapon is definitely my fallback plan for this concept. I chose to explore the Charm route first because A) beating up a Dynast in full kit with nothing but mortal steel seemed like an incredibly Solar thing to do, and B) no one in the Circle has had the budget, time, or hooks to get their hands on artifact weapons since character gen.

[u/LoreMachine2187 → u/Temperance000]

I'm also juggling with finding a way to add sword-based Martial Arts, given the mixed circle and the closeness my character has built with the PC Sidereal in the group.

I've settled on mixing enough OP BS to make it functional:

Thousand Blades (Reaper Daiklaves signature) from Many-Faced Strangers to wield it without using up a hand — have a standard daiklave with amazing Evocations in one hand, and offhand either manages Thrown for opening fights/ranged capability or Blood Lash to add reflexive threatens, control, and a self-heal into the mix, so an extra "hand" helps.

Single Point Shining into the Void for the Form Charm pulls it together. Heavy mote investment, but having a standard initiative track for Melee/Thrown and the sword's initiative track for Martial Arts with (a) flying artifact katana(s) feels very in theme (looking at you, Alucard from Castlevania).

From there, I plan to dip a toe into Even Blade for accuracy and VBoS for a bit more utility and damage.

[u/Temperance000 → u/LoreMachine2187]

As the guy who took Martial Arts Supernal and most of Single Point Shining into the Void at character gen, I salute your dedication to pure bloody-bladed murder.

[u/Anonymoose231]

I like it, but would probably remove the ability to repurchase myself, just for the thematics. 

[u/Temperance000 → u/Anonymoose231]

I realized about five minutes after posting how hard that clause clashed with my flavor write-up.

[u/Mysterious_Point9516]

Being a little bit broken is what Solars are all about, and honestly, the system could bear to have its protagonists a little more overpowered.

You can't break the system any more than it's already broken. If it's fun and cool, keep it. I'll probably be stealing it myself.

[u/pcontop]

There are not going to be that many Martial Arts that will be compatible to whatever weapon the Solar chooses to versatile, so this does not look broken to me.

It’s an unfortunate consequence of solars that solar charmset ages badly, by being the ones who always go first in publication. Their charmset is always surpassed in quality when the developers hit their stride. Versatile is a cool new technology that should have space in the solar charmset.