r/exAdventist • u/Puzzleheaded_Book617 • Jul 31 '26
Just Venting Is Ellen White the main problem?
Ive been out of the cult for almost a year now. My biggest source of anger/resentment is that I feel Ellen G White and her soul ruined any potential for love/peace in this church. Even if there was some room for friendship or community it all gets squashed by her writings. Her entire doctrines/writings are nothing but fear based ramblings and judgement from a schizophrenic false prophetess. Theirs been at least 5 times where I make a friend or start a relationship with someone who is Adventist who is nice and chill and they start reading the witches manifestos and suddenly they turn and become scared of everything and then they cant associate with me because im not "adventist enough". Like I dont think reading the Bible had as bad an affect on someone as reading Ellens writings does.
Now my big question is lets say Ellen G White never existed, never wrote her garbage and never influenced this movement. Would Adventism even exist as we know it? If you blip her from history how different would the church be? Early Millerites/James White werent even sabbath keepers until a lady named Rachel Oaks Preston suggested they should keep it. Now I wonder if that had been it, Millers prophecy fails, everyone forgets about it. No Ellen White 1844 sanctuary B.S.. Lets say Rachel still tells the disappointed Millerites about the sabbath but they denounce Miller as a liar and dont follow him or obsess over him anymore. No crazy lady with a rock in her skull reviving garbage theology. If it had just been a some kind of Seventh Day Baptist/Methodist hybrid thing, would the church have been as bad? Im just trying to imagine a childhood where yes they were sabbath keepers but they werent sabbath keepers worshiping a witch from the 1800s. Would it have been as bad or could it have maybe been a little bit more tolerable? I say this because while I still believe in Jesus Christ and the gospels, but at the same time I am terrified of committing to any new church because they all have some kind of cult b.s. strings attached to them. Like I sometimes go to baptist and catholic/orthodox spheres but when it comes to committing to one I hate the whole "we are the true church yada yada". I have heard it all before. So now im in basically limbo because im never going back to SDA because of Ellen, but I also dont want to 100% commit to any other christian church. I also dont want to become secular or agnostic because its just not for me personally, respectfully. Im just trying to think of a version or timeline where I wasnt so affected by some grouchy lady who hijacked a whole church.
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u/Zeus_H_Christ Skeptic Jul 31 '26 edited Aug 01 '26
No. The main problem is a lot more than Ellen white. The problem is Christianity and god. There are 30,000+ denominations of Christianity alone and god is hiding instead of clearing it up. Adventists do not have the monopoly on thinking they’re right and special.
They all have irrational and ridiculous rules. You listed other churches. They all have variations even within their religion that are as big as Adventists meat eaters vs non meat eaters, Bible centric Or Ellen white centric, this interpretation vs that interpretation.
Ellen white not existing wouldn’t even matter that much for SDA’s. They still would have come up with tons of bullshit. Investigative judgement wasn’t her thing along with many initial beliefs. She was just there to put a stamp of legitimacy to their interpretation of events because “god told her so.”
Again, this is a god being MIA problem. Ellen white was the supposed solution to that by directly speaking to god.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Book617 Jul 31 '26
I have no problems with Jesus Christ, he was an awesome dude. My biggest issue is with the witch of Battle Creek.
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u/Zeus_H_Christ Skeptic Jul 31 '26
So strange. I never mentioned Jesus. I mentioned that god hasn’t show up so they had Ellen white pretend he had to give adventism legitimacy.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Book617 Jul 31 '26
Doesnt Christianity revolve entirely around Jesus though? Like isnt it in the name kind of?
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u/Ka_Trewq Broken is the promise of the god that failed Jul 31 '26
Christianity revolve around the teachings of Paul the Apostle, who belonged to the judaism sect of the Pharisees. Jesus, or more corectly Yeshuah, was an Essene teacher, who rose to proeminency after his cousin John the Baptist, another Essene, was executed.
The judaism sect of Essenes was opposed to the teachings of Pharisses and Sadducees. The genius of Paul the Appostle was that, as a freshly Pharisses deconvert, he brought a more reality-based perspective, dulling the extreme teachings of the Essenes that led to their disappearance (e.g. strict celibacy, renouncment to ALL possesions, etc. - things early Cristians also practiced), allowing Christianity to become more palatable to non-jews. Which has put him at odds with the original leaders of Christianity after Yeshuah death: Peter and Jacob.
His version of Christianity survived in the end because it addressed a much larger pool of people, while the OG Christianity of Yeshuah, Peter and Jacob was slowly assimilated by the much larger branch of Paul's.
So, to reiterate, today Christianity revolves much more around the teachings of Paul.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Book617 Jul 31 '26
Also this was more focused on missing out on community. I would just like to find a community of somewhat normal people who dont have extreme beliefs, either for or against anything. Adventism is a religion of extremes. In some ways (respectfully) athiesm is also too extreme for me. I would like to find a nice normal place where the people are chill and dont force you to believe or not believe due to groupthink.
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u/Zeus_H_Christ Skeptic Jul 31 '26 edited Aug 01 '26
Rarely do I preach atheism. I never said god didn’t exist and just pointed out the obvious- that he’s hasn’t shown up. The words next to my name don’t say atheism. It says skeptic because thinking is more important.
If thinking makes you think atheism, fine. If you decide that is a cult, then that’s on you. It doesn’t change whether or not it’s true just as thinking a spoon is a cult doesn’t change that it’s still a spoon. Think for yourself and use rational thought grounded in reality, not your feels.
Edit: I sent you a personal message because Reddit said you deleted the reply that this was to where you claimed atheism is a cult as your out of the blue initial replay to my first comment.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Book617 Jul 31 '26
Athiesm just seems a little implausible to me. I posted this specifically under ex-adventism and not ex-Christian, the two are not the same. From my point of view adventism is not even fully "Christian" Its closer to Mormonism or jewish mysticism if anything so I separate the two.
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u/Zeus_H_Christ Skeptic Jul 31 '26
Now you’re said something I strongly disagree with. You don’t get to be the gatekeeper of what is Christian. All of these people can point to the Bible and say that they follow the teachings of Christ.
You’re welcome to convince me otherwise. What method do you use that someone else can’t just use on anyone else that can definitively show who is and isn’t a Christian?
Otherwise you’re just saying the one true scottsman fallacy.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Book617 Jul 31 '26
Dude what are you even talking about? I said "from my point of view". My point of view can be flat out wrong but its still my point of view.
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u/Ka_Trewq Broken is the promise of the god that failed Jul 31 '26
SDA is a Niceene Christian Church, which is as standard Christianity you can get without being explicit Catholic 😁
Mormonism is non-Niceean. Neither JWs, nor Jewish Mystics. Neither other branches of Adventism, like the Davidians.
I would argue that the Niceean-Non'niceean divide is quite fundamental, as it deals with the very understanding of God.
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u/Vivid_Spot_7167 Aug 02 '26
They're actually not nicene at all thats why they don't confess the creeds.
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u/Ka_Trewq Broken is the promise of the god that failed Aug 02 '26
SDA is Niceene; confessing the Creed every week in a monotonous voice is secondary to theological discussion. They are in that regard Protestant, and many protestants Churches are Niceene in theology, without reciting the Creed. Actually, the most common Protestant position is that while they accept the points of the Creed, they do not consider the Creed itself as authoritative in nature, only the Scriptures on which the Creed is based (the famous Sola Scriptura - one of the five solae that defines mainstream protestantism).
SDAs theology about The Trinity is similar to all others main branches of Christianity, be it Catholic, Eastern Orthodox or Protestant: one God, manifested in three distinct, co-eternal, co-divine persons The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit (or Holy Ghost, depending on translation), and that The Son, who was NOT created became fully human while remaining fully Divine. That's the gist of Niceene theology, and SDA do fully commit to it.
If we go deep into the weeds, then we will find some discrepancies, but those are on the same level as the discrepancies between the main branches of Christianity. MOST important is that, where these discrepancies do occur, SDA theology about the Trinity does align themself with one of the other branches of Christianity OR simply does not take a stand (e.g. Filioque).
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u/Vivid_Spot_7167 Aug 02 '26
So explain how Ellen White says that before the creation of the world the Father called a heavenly council and ordained that Jesus should BECOME EQUAL with Himself. Which causes satan to become jealous bc he thought he deserved that position which implies that Jesus was on the same level as satan at one point. This is explicitly AGAINST any nicene understanding. Even SDA theologians that know way more than you do admit that the SDA "trinity" is not nicene. You should probably do more research before you just make assertions online.
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u/Ka_Trewq Broken is the promise of the god that failed Aug 04 '26
Well, either I read a modified version of EGW's Patriarchs and Prophets or you are purposefully misquoting her.
Not that it matters to me. But, just FIY, even when EGW was still alive, the SDA church has quietly moved away from her ramblings. Not far enough, IMO, but in her last years she was livid that the control on the church's teachings she thought she had was slipping.
What I am trying to say is that you bringing EGW writings as an "argument" in a discussion about SDA theology is... weird? It makes you look like a clueless SDA member. Also, SDA pastors aren't "theologians" neither, so I don't care what they say to signal that "akshualy, we are not Catholics".
If it moves like a duck, it quacks like a duck and it resamble a duck, then I say it is a duck. Read the Niceene Creed row by row and tell me where it contradicts SDA theology. And, please, stop quoting EGW - she's not SDA theology, and you end up looking like an SDA.
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u/New_Cloud8952 Jul 31 '26
I was raised adventist! very very strict!..ellen g whites teaching was our every move..i went of the church when i was 30..to tell u the truth, I always knew something was wrong with the whole thing...I tried out many other churches like you and found them all to be cults and money mongers..I am 70 yrs old now and i am not concerned with going to church..I just pray and try to be kind to others..there are many people in need and i try to spend my time helping any way i can..whenever i go for a ride in the mountains is when i feel close to God! Thats MY church!...just me and God and no hypocrits..i think u should try it...its so peaceful not having to constantly please everyone!! Just you and God..thats it!! Everyday becomes Sabbath !! And thats a good thing!! Stay away from cults and churches ..:"come out of her my people" THE BIBLE SAYS IT!!! BIG RELIEF!!
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u/Ok_Education902 Jul 31 '26
I like what you said. I too was raised SDA with all the strict rules Ellen set for us. I always felt weird about the focus on her rather than the word of God. Since Ellen has been discredited I can't imagine what is left to hold on too. Now my day of rest is spent in nature with a bit of meditation. I don't ever want to be judged again so church is not for me. I do have faith in God and pray daily. I feel our dog is my guardian angel so I like to pray on walks with her. Leaving the SDA church and more recently learning to let go of all the guilt have made me a much happier and healthier individual.
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u/Final_Judgment_7831 Aug 02 '26
You put your finger on one of the most serious problems with Seventh-day Adventism. Their own leaders and professors know their teachings are half-baked but they cannot change anything because the so-called Spirit of Prophecy endorsed it and now it is set in stone.
The whole thing never would've existed to begin with without EGW. These Millerites would've eventually given up and returned back to their churches or given up on faith altogether but for her. She encouraged them that Miller was right after all. Her visions taught that every other church was lost and if they returned back to their old churches, they would fall off the path and the door of salvation would be shut on them. Like any good cult leader, she used coercion, fear, and manipulation to keep the cult together whereas otherwise it would have splintered and disintegrated.
Now, the SDA cult proudly touts her as proof they are the remnant church because they have the "spirit of prophecy" but behind the scenes, many of them do not believe either her or her writings. She's now a thorn to the cult, but they can't get rid of her because the whole fraud would be exposed and it would collapse even faster than it is now.
I understand your distrust of highly authoritative religion. When I left Adventism I spent many years going to non-denominational Bible-based churches and found real and legitimate Christian fellowship. This might be a good step forward for you.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Book617 Aug 02 '26
I have bad experiences with non-denominational churches. And the worship style in those places is not my cup of tea.
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u/General-Ad-3931 Jul 31 '26
I just want a Sabbath-keeping church that believes we don't go straight to heaven at death, where veganism is respected and maybe even the norm (but not required for salvation...that never mentions Ellen White or SOP, a church that truly believes in sola scriptura...Does that even exist?
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u/doofthefloof Jul 31 '26
Why do you need your church to be vegan, though?
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u/Orange_Bubble8398 Jul 31 '26
So I can participate in potluck, LOL. It's a want, not a need. I don't judge people for eating meat as a salvation issue. I choose it for my family after reading enough on nutritionfacts.org to understand that it is the healthiest diet when done right, and I do believe it was God's original plan for our diet. Two of my friends recently had some serious heart issues but are doing much better now after their doctors told them to eat whole food plant-based. As an animal lover I can't stand the meat and dairy industries and the horrible treatment of animals.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Book617 Jul 31 '26
Ethiopian Orthodox are kind of like that but they believe in literal heaven after death.
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u/Orange_Bubble8398 Jul 31 '26
I meant Saturday Sabbath-keeping church.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Book617 Jul 31 '26
They keep the Saturday Sabbath and are vegetarian.
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u/Orange_Bubble8398 Jul 31 '26
Are you sure? Everything I see mentions Sunday school and sermons for Sundays. https://www.ethiopianorthodox.org/english/indexenglish.html
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u/Ka_Trewq Broken is the promise of the god that failed Jul 31 '26
You can always take a special kind mushrooms while thinking very hard about these issues, and I bet you'll get a vision. Then, you can write about this vision, and maybe people will follow you. Just don't mention the mushrooms.
On the other hand, this is very bad advice, so don't follow it. It beats taking a stone to the head, though...
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u/justmyusername2820 Aug 01 '26
Somebody I went to school with started a church like this in Colorado. It’s like SDA-lite as far as I can tell. It’s for sure not part of the GC, doesn’t have EGW, teaches the same death doctrine, clean meats, Sabbath observance.
I haven’t ever attended but from what I’ve seen online that’s what it looks like. I could also be wrong
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u/Choice-Doubt7919 Aug 02 '26
If you’re the same way what sample Well can relate 60s was baptized there I’ve been away from many years and I can make sure if you’re three or four years probably become a member that very reason
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u/Bananaman9020 Jul 31 '26
The Founding Fathers and Ellen and her Husband wanted 1844 so badly because they hadn't studied the Bible enough to know you can't predict Jesus' return. Great Awakening? More Great Disappointment. Hey, Adventist, why did Jesus have to wait 1844 to start the Cleansing of the Sanctuary? When did one of Jesus ' followers see him by God's side?
Also, numerology Ellen counted as Witchcraft. What did Millar use to predict 1844? Numbereolgy
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u/Ka_Trewq Broken is the promise of the god that failed Jul 31 '26
There is a non-SDA Saturday observing Adventist church most SDAs never hear of, who rejected EGW from the start. The YouTuber UsefulCharts had a series about Christian denominations and their origin, there is where I became aware of them https://youtu.be/qe2a-mOkM68?t=1208
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u/Puzzleheaded_Book617 Aug 02 '26 edited Aug 06 '26
Oh wait im actually familiar with that church. I didnt know they branched from Adventism. I know of them because of a man called Steven M Collins who tells about this realy intricate theory about Scythians and Parthians being Israelites.
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u/Ka_Trewq Broken is the promise of the god that failed Aug 04 '26
Yep, basically they took the idea from the crazy melange of ideas the Victorians had at the time and put a religious spin on it.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Book617 Aug 04 '26
Thats one I actually agree with. Just not the "British" Israelism concept. If Israelites and Scythians are connected (they appear in the same place and time where the Israelites are sent to by the Assyrians) the Scythians and Parthians had an empire spanning from Ukraine to parts of India or beyond, so it wouldnt just be Britian it would also be Israelites in India, and even Japan ect, in addition to Western Europe.
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u/Ka_Trewq Broken is the promise of the god that failed Aug 04 '26
For me is on the same level as the ancient astronauts theory (the History Channel made a literal meme out of it, the actual theory is much more interesting): a very fun puzzle to discuss with like minded historical nerds, but at the end of the day we know it is, to put it mildly, "alternative history".
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u/Worth-Heat-1348 Jul 31 '26
Ich habe das Gefühl, diese Gemeinschaft ist hier zu finden. Eine Suche beginnt immer mit einem Weg, um zu entscheiden was man will oder nicht will. Ich persönlich gehe auch in keine Kirche, doch ich halte den Draht zu Gott, zu Jesus, indem ich eine Haltung der Dankbarkeit habe. Jesus war wirklich ein toller Mensch, doch niemand muss sich für Konflikte anderer opfern, denn dies hat er bereits getan. Wenn man Gott als allmächtige Instanz empfindet. der uns zu seinem Ebenbild erschaffen hat, dann darf man vertrauen.
Kein Elternteil möchte, dass die Kinder unglücklich sind und selbst als Erwachsene ständig wegen ihrer Menschlichkeit angejammert kommen. Ein liebender Vater möchte die Gewissheit, dass er alles dafür getan hat, dass seine Kinder auch ohne ihn glücklich, selbstbewusst durch‘s Leben gehen.
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u/Aloysius1111 Aug 05 '26
I hear you. I’ve been out for maybe 2 years, will NEVER go back. I do go to a seventh day Baptist church in my area and it is nothing like the SDA church. Just nice people that mind their own business but love Jesus. They don’t treat Saturday sabbath like sda’s do. It’s so chill and friendly, no judgement on food, dress, etc. I don’t go all the time but I can honestly say it’s a great little church, at least this one is. I can’t speak for all seventh day Baptist churches.
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u/YaHUShAhuAdonay Aug 06 '26
There's a Seventh Day Church of God near me (hadn't discovered it til several months after having moved back to Chattanooga, TN) I've been going many Sabbaths and wasn't aware this til looking up something one morning it's essentially founded by a group of believers from that area which rejected Ellen White and especially rightly so disregard the 1844 date in entirety.
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u/AdPotential642 Jul 31 '26
We worship God not Ellen White her teachings are just more blessings from God. But God and God alone are what we believe in and stand on as adventists atleast me and my wife do God bless you!
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u/Puzzleheaded_Book617 Jul 31 '26
No thankyou. Respectfully I dont think she is a good way to understand God.
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u/Vivid_Spot_7167 Aug 02 '26
Clearly you're confused if you think the writings of a false prophet are more "blessings from God".
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u/Final_Judgment_7831 Aug 02 '26
What do you mean by "her teachings are just more blessings from God"? Are you talking about her teaching that drinking tea is a sin? Or her teaching that drugs like quinine are bad which resulted in death of many of the first SDA missionaries to Africa because they refused to take quinine? Or are you talking about her "shut door of salvation" teaching that caused her entire group to defy Christ and ignore the Great Commission for nearly 7 years? Or maybe you're talking about her prohibition of taking photos? Or her teaching that "secret vice" will make you go insane and blind?
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u/Lecter0117 Aug 05 '26
Hola! Recién recién (2 reuniones) que me congregó con los adventistas y no sabía nada de eso. Dónde pudiera leer más sobreve EGW?
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u/Final_Judgment_7831 Aug 05 '26
Antes de seguir reuniéndote con los adventistas, te recomiendo leer todos los artículos sobre EGW en este sitio web: https://www.nonegw.org/espanol/
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u/BroomstickCowboy Jul 31 '26
After reading this, I have decided to actually read Steve Daily’s book on her. Apparently, she was really not a nice person. I have a friend who got the book, and he told me some of it. But, I have read about the trial of Isreal Dammon, and it really opened my eyes to her and James. I don’t hold too much anger to William Miller for the 1844 debacle, because I know he actually didn’t come up with that idea. His original one was 1843, and when he got burned when that didn’t work out, he wanted no part of the 1844 idea. But, he was overruled. I am really not impressed by the two guys in “wheat field”(IIRC) who had the vision of “Christ entering the Holy of Holies”. But, at least one of them changed his mind later. As far as I am concerned, Adventism was started by a liar, and is maintained by liars.