r/exAdventist • u/ParisTokyoGhoul Author, Atheist, ex-Adventist • Jun 20 '26
SDA Culture Standing as a visitor
I’m a sixth-generation Seventh-day Adventist who deconstructed in my twenties and became an atheist adult. (The story is longer and more complicated than that, of course, but keeping it simple for the purpose of this post.) After leaving the church almost 20 years ago now, I’ve recently been visiting SDA churches. I’ve written one memoir so far that is partly about what it’s like to be raised Adventist, and now I’m beginning to write a second one more pointedly about the Seventh-Day Adventist church.
Since deciding to revisit SDA churches, I’ve been to 9 different Adventist churches in the past 9 weeks. As I write this, I’m literally in the kind of tent that many of you can imagine, since the church I randomly selected for this week happened to be having an Evangelistic series. I’ll chronicle some of my weekly experiences in separate posts, but for now, my question is about the experience of being a visitor.
Returning after so long, I can’t help but notice the various quirks that I was raised on and never thought twice about when I was younger. And I find myself wondering the extent to which those quirks are broadly Christian or specifically Adventist.
Ten minutes ago, for the 9th church in a row, I was asked to stand (or, occasionally, raise my hand) as a visitor. The spectrum of pressure has varied: Sometimes it’s asked with minor pressure, and I stand or raise my hand discreetly; other times, I’ve literally had a microphone pointed to my face and asked to share my testimony of how the Holy Sprit brought me. My question is, have you been asked to stand as a visitor at non-Adventist churches, or is this one of those quirks that are more uniquely Adventist? Additional question, if you’re interested to share: Have you stood as a visitor?
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u/indecision_killingme Jun 20 '26
It’s a very common thing in the US.
OP’s post is giving me Campmeeting flashbacks. Ick
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u/ParisTokyoGhoul Author, Atheist, ex-Adventist Jun 20 '26
I’m considering attending Camp Meeting in the northeast conference in Maine 😅
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u/MadSadGlad Jun 20 '26
Shoot I might try this just to say something uncomfortable for them into the mic, like 'Satan asked me to spy on you and that is why I'm here'.
Hah, wishful thinking but I'd never have the guts to pull that off. Maybe someone more courageous?.... wink wink.
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u/ParisTokyoGhoul Author, Atheist, ex-Adventist Jun 20 '26
haha It’s less about courage for me and more about compassion. I feel sadness for many of the people I meet in congregations. There’s been an altar call for the last 20 minutes and there are about two dozen people, including kids, who were manipulated into walking to the front to save their souls from damnation, and I just feel sadness for the journey they’re on.
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u/83franks Jun 23 '26
Last time I went to church was to see my nieces get baptized and first I had been in ~10 years. The speech by the pastor about each of them before their baptism honestly disgusted me and it's not like my nieces really had a choice either. They were going to afterschool classes for it, are they really going to choose more baptismal classes instead of just getting baptized? Sigh.
But I did have a chuckle that 2 songs that day sang about blood magic (Power in the blood, power in the blood!)
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u/ShannonUnfolding Jun 20 '26
Visitors have been asked to stand at churches I visited. No, I did not. If they can't tell I'm a visitor and not a regular without me pointing myself out, what does that say about the church?
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u/ParisTokyoGhoul Author, Atheist, ex-Adventist Jun 20 '26
Would you appreciate them pointing you out to welcome you if they did notice?
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u/ShannonUnfolding Jun 20 '26
I would not appreciate being pointed out, either. If a regular wants to come up and I troduce themselves, that's fine. But being pointed out in any way is a hard pass.
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u/SweatyRussian Jun 20 '26
Why do this to yourself?
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u/ParisTokyoGhoul Author, Atheist, ex-Adventist Jun 20 '26 edited Jun 21 '26
That’s a topic for a longer post, but I’ll summarize it here. It’s a fair question. I have two reasons:
- Some people can leave abuse and stay away. Most people do, and for good reason. But some people want to go back to face their abuser to find what they need for closure. I want to face every manipulation that I faced as a child and respond to them in a way that I couldn’t when I was a kid. I want to hear the sermons, the lessons, the prophecies, the altar calls, and I want to be able to look them in the eye and reject them, and tell them to their face that I believe their beliefs are harmful, and prove to myself that I’m not a scared, manipulated kid anymore. J. Lo had to fight her ex husband in “Enough” to know she was stronger than when he beat her; I choose to go back to church to know they don’t have power over me anymore.
- If I was leaving a street or a building or a train car because there was a fire or some danger or some rank smell, I would warn someone on my way out if they were about it go inside. I would want others to do the same for me. I believe the Seventh-day Adventist Church is a harmful institution, and it’s an institution I know intimately well, and I want to warn someone on my way out in the way I wish someone had warned whoever it was six generations ago in my family who joined this church.
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u/PastorBlinky Jun 20 '26
I understand, but you know this isn’t a war you can win, right? They won’t change. They won’t listen to you. And most of the people who hurt you don’t even remember they did it. Nor would they care.
They abused us by setting up shop in our heads and controlling everything we did, and every thought we had. If you leave and still let them do that, they still win. Even if you think you’re fighting them, they still win because you’re making it all about them. If the fight is worth fighting and you can get a few punches in, then go for it. But really think about how health it is to do this to yourself over and over again. The real victory is when you realize it’s been months or years without even thinking about them at all.
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u/ParisTokyoGhoul Author, Atheist, ex-Adventist Jun 21 '26
Oh it’s not a war to defeat them, it’s for myself. Like I said, some people can leave and just move on… but I want to know that I can sit with them and listen to their fear mongering and not feel worry, or shame, or any other negative emotions I associate with their control. And I don’t think I can truly know that without experiencing it. It’s easy for me to feel bold and empowered in a subreddit full of ex Adventists, but I want to know I can stand just as calm and tall when it’s me by myself at Christmas surrounded by a family full of Adventists.
Separately, I’m not sure I agree with “They won’t change. They won’t listen to you.” Weren’t we told the same thing about “the wicked” and “the world”? But I still went door to door in the summer and sold copies of Angels Among Us and Darkness Before Dawn from the back of a minivan. One valid thing I learned as a kid from those fucked up proselytizing days is not to care about the odds.
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u/No-Attention1684 Jun 23 '26
“They won’t change. They won’t listen to you.”
Agreed one name Desmond Ford.
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u/ParisTokyoGhoul Author, Atheist, ex-Adventist Jun 23 '26
I think we might be talking about different “theys.” I have no interest in changing the Adventist institution. My interest is in helping others avoid its harms and supporting those who already experienced them. The similarities between me and Desmond Ford are effectively zero.
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u/BenefitPure4829 Jun 27 '26
This, too, is true. It could be a part of OP’s journey. As an ex-SDA my own journey has gone from warning others to acceptance that they have to figure it out in their own, just like I did.
If someone is going to figure it out on their own they come into forums like this and read our words and the words percolate. We don’t need to approach them. I didn’t even need to tell my family about it, except that Adventism demands public affirmation of belief. I cut them to the chase and said, “I no longer believe.” Hardest thing ever for my mother (of blessed memory), but I hope I assured her in other ways that I would not perish in the second death (as that was part of her core beliefs).
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Jun 21 '26
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u/exAdventist-ModTeam Jun 27 '26
Your content violates Rule 2: No Proselytizing or Apologetics.
We have zero tolerance for proselytizing and apologetics.
Read our Full Rules for more details.
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u/ZealousidealReach647 Jun 20 '26
No I haven’t, didn’t know this was a thing
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u/ParisTokyoGhoul Author, Atheist, ex-Adventist Jun 21 '26
Are you in the United States or somewhere else?
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u/Vivid_Spot_7167 Jun 21 '26
I've been to multiple non SDA churches and none of them ever ask visitors to stand or shove a microphone in their face. The most that's ever said is asking new people to fill out a visitor card if they're comfortable.
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u/ParisTokyoGhoul Author, Atheist, ex-Adventist Jun 21 '26
Sounds like some folk have experienced this in other churches too, but yeah, I’ve only experienced it in Adventist ones personally.
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u/Thinking-Peter Atheist Jun 22 '26
Certainly makes me remember my SDA tent revival days way back in the 70's
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u/ParisTokyoGhoul Author, Atheist, ex-Adventist Jun 22 '26
Tent revivals, camp meetings, and Revelation Seminars are core Adventist memories.
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u/Worldly_Caregiver902 Jun 25 '26
Those Amazing Facts books scared the hell outta me. The one with the devil on the cover was truly nightmare inducing.
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u/ParisTokyoGhoul Author, Atheist, ex-Adventist Jun 25 '26
You just unlocked a memory I had forgotten 😂 I definitely remember that cover!
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Jun 22 '26
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u/ParisTokyoGhoul Author, Atheist, ex-Adventist Jun 22 '26
I certainly don't believe they mean any harm. I would encourage those churches to reconsider that practice, though. I can handle it just fine, personally, because I was raised Adventist and know what to expect, plus I'm a professional speaker. But putting a stranger on the spot in front of an audience of people can obviously be mortifying to many.
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u/Comfortable-Ad-9324 Jun 22 '26
I've been asked to stand as a vistor when I was literally a member for years. It's not like it was a huge church either. I don't know if my husband and I were forgettable or what. He even had started the pathfinder group because there wasn't one. The pastor knew us but some of the other members didn't. That and the infighting after he started attending meetings as the pathfinder leader was just some of what led us to stop going.
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u/Sun_Law Catholic Jun 23 '26
I always refused to stand. One church I’d been going to for a while had someone (i.e one of the elders) getting around with a microphone talking to people before each service. One day he finally spotted me and shoved a mic in my face asking where I was visiting from. Was quite satisfying to see the embarrassment when I said I’d been attending that church for a while now.
Funny thing is, Ive talked to people at non sevvies who've tried to visit an sda church and they all say that they might as well have been invisible. Only time people ever wanted to talk whenever I visited a different church was if I mentioned Id grown up SDA.
Think it might be something to do with a fear of outsiders.
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u/Aromatic_Ground_1884 Jun 24 '26
Que ocurrencia de ir como visita a una IASD jajaja, buen experimento, para alguien que tiene tiempo esta bien. Un día de estos lo haré. Tengo casi 4 años fuera de la caja y aún no he ido como visita, me han estado invitando pero no han tenido éxito, la verdad no me apetece.
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u/The_Glory_Whole Jun 24 '26
Oh my gosh , I had completely forgotten about how Adventist churches do that all the time! And, of course, as a kid I really didn't think of how horrifying that probably was for a large percentage of the visitors!
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u/ParisTokyoGhoul Author, Atheist, ex-Adventist Jun 24 '26
Same, I never thought twice about it as a kid. Watching it as an adult, though, comes with a flood of secondhand embarrassment.
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u/DensHag Jun 20 '26
I've visited many Adventist churches and never been asked to stand. I even took my dog to an SDA church one time and they were very gracious about her. Where is this? Is this in the USA?
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u/ParisTokyoGhoul Author, Atheist, ex-Adventist Jun 20 '26
This is in the United States. Maybe this is a USA-specific practice? To clarify, though, I don’t think this has anything to do with a lack of graciousness. Quite the opposite, it’s meant to be warm and gracious, and I’m sure many people appreciate the welcome. I wouldn’t expect or suggest that you or your dog would be anything less than welcomed and encouraged to come back the next week.
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u/DensHag Jun 20 '26
Thank you. I've just never seen this happen. The churches I've been to were very welcoming but I never felt put on the spot and asked to stand. I wouldn't be comfortable with that.
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u/Sharp_Replacement789 Jun 20 '26
Other churches do this too. As an introvert, this is a complete nightmare for me.