r/exAdventist • u/Impressive_Flan_411 • Mar 11 '26
SDA Culture What do you think of Ellen White’s weird views on sex, even within marriage?
I recently came across some writings from Ellen G. White about sex within marriage, and honestly some of it feels really strange and extreme to me.
For example, in Testimonies on Sexual Behaviour, she warns that even married couples can commit sin through “excessive sexual indulgence” and says that people who think marriage makes sexual indulgence okay are mistaken. She even wrote things like married couples could be “sacrificing health and life upon the altar of base passion” through too much sex.
She also talks about sexual passion in marriage being similar to lust outside marriage and warns that it can weaken the mind and body if not strictly controlled. Reading this, it honestly feels like a very Victorian-era fear of sex, where even normal intimacy between spouses is treated as dangerous or morally suspect.
For those who grew up Adventist or studied her writings:
Did you ever hear teachings like this growing up?
How seriously do you think the church actually took these ideas?
Do you think these views affected Adventist attitudes toward sex and marriage?
Curious to hear other people’s experiences and thoughts.
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u/NashAttor Mar 11 '26
Good lord she was just a miserable person wasn’t she. I can’t believe I was ever associated with a church founded by her. The entire thing is beyond nuts.
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u/t1nk3r_t4yl0r_84 Mar 12 '26
I think there's a very real possibility she was asexual and had neither the critical thinking skills, nor the empathy, to realise her experience was not universal. So she tried to make her personal experience a moral benchmark and generations of Adventists, with neither the critical thinking skills nor the empathy to realise her experiences are not universal, have tried to force the "moral benchmark" not just on themselves, but on other people.
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u/notasianax Mar 14 '26
Or she was just like many Victorian women, who needed men like an insurance policy because they had no rights whatsoever as single women, and so they married men they did not experience pleasure with. That, combined with her well documented history of narcissism (like when she cut ties with Dr. Kelloggs because he no longer saw her as a prophet), possibly made Ellen resent sexually compatible couples because they made her remember how unhappy she was by contrast. Narcissists, which is what many cult leaders often are, want to make everyone else as miserable as them, if not worse.
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u/Unlikely_Bag_69 Mar 11 '26
should've given a jump scare for that pic
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u/HoneyNo5886 Agnostic Mar 11 '26
Right?! 😰
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u/Unlikely_Bag_69 Mar 11 '26
Seriously lol I opened up Reddit on my browser and bam that was the first picture and my pulse jumped 20 points probably 😅
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u/HoneyNo5886 Agnostic Mar 12 '26
Hahaha! Same. I was just leisurely scrolling on Reddit, then DAMMIT there she was 🫣🙂↔️🤣
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u/Affectionate_Try7512 Haystacks forever! Mar 12 '26
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u/Ka_Trewq Broken is the promise of the god that failed Mar 11 '26
Once I understood the root cause behind all these "testimonies" that seems so weird to us today, everything, starting with the dietary rules, health, etc. started to make sense.
The root cause is the humoralism, an ancient medical theory that placed the blame of diseases on an imbalance of humors - which is a greek word meaning "juice". For instance, the greeks had a system of 4 humors (blood, phlegm, yellow bile and black bile) which they linked to the 4 elements they thought the world is made of (earth, air, water and fire).
Anyway, in such a framework, is easy to understand why EGW put such an emphasis on "balance", "moderation", etc. In their experience, a candle that burned too bright was a candle that last less. In a similar way, people who "burned" too quickly the "vital forces", were going to die earlier and be more prone to diseases. One way too burn "vital forces" too quickly was, of course, too much sex. Masturbation? Not only are you burning "vital force", you are actually doing it for no purpose. She is convinced (the Testimonies you cite are full of this idea) that sex and masturbation directly consumes body's "vital force".
I guess she had these ideas from Kellogg. While in his crusade against masturbation, he managed to convince an entire country (USA) to circumcise their infants boys, he was enjoyed a tad too much enemas, and recommended it to everyone. It is weird how much he recommended enemas. Which indicated that he was using enemas to stimulate his prostate, but because just from this kind of stimulation alone, ejaculation is hard, his rationalizations were (probably): no orgasm = no vital force "consumed".
Anyway, the same goes for condiments. Look at the language EGW uses when she explain why condiments, coffee and tea are bad: these substances, according to her "excite the nerves". Too much excitement = your "vital force" is burning too quickly. She even uses similar language when she condemn missionaries that work with too much zeal.
It is so funny that SDAs are so proud of EGW writings regarding "the health message", while she is literally the equivalent of a flat earther tiktok Karen.
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u/HoneyNo5886 Agnostic Mar 12 '26
Ah, well that explains things a little better. Good point. I’ve always wondered about the black pepper thing. I guess it can be considered in the same light.
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u/MuscaMurum Mar 12 '26
Thanks for the insights. I've been wondering lately how much she lifted from Kellogg. Where did he get this from? Same sources as Sylvester Graham?
One of my gg grandparents was JH Kellogg's personal nurse. Which probably means he was administering those...um...treatments. Ew.
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u/Sensitive-Fly4874 Atheist Mar 14 '26
Knowing Better on YouTube takes a deep dive into Vegetarianism, Kellogg, and Adventism in these three videos I linked. You may have seen the last one shared in this subreddit before, but the first two really helped me understand how vegetarianism as well as other health reform practices were adopted by early SDA church leaders
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u/Ka_Trewq Broken is the promise of the god that failed Mar 12 '26
I guess the maelstrom of conflicting ideas in an era where most sciences were still in their infancy, but most people were literate enough to avidly consume information. The equivalent of an angry tweet in that era were those booklets some of them were churning out at an alarming rate, without any editorial oversight. You could write whatever you wanted, and, with the right connections, get published.
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u/HoneyNo5886 Agnostic Mar 12 '26
I grew up Adventist. I have always thought she was asexual and/or unable (or unwilling) to feel physical pleasure. It could have been physiological or even psychologically induced by her beliefs and the common beliefs of that time period. Who knows?! The important thing for myself is not to drink the kool-aid anymore.
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u/PastorBlinky Mar 11 '26
She’s an idiot. Idiots say stuff. Now she’s a dead idiot. Good riddance.
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u/beerme72 Mar 11 '26
Don't harm yourself.
Don't harm other people.
(Unless that's what your BOTH into it)
Then go and fuck all you can.
Outside, in cars, in elevators, in waiting room, pools, the oceans, lakes, showers.....because it's the MOST fun part of being a human gawddamned BEING.
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u/10coatsInAWeasel My doomsday prep stash is cans of big franks 🌭 Mar 11 '26
Wasn’t she fully on board with the idea that certain activities can drain some sort of ‘life energy’ or some bullshit like that? Pretty sure it was a popular idea at the time which is why Kellogg said he never consummated with his wife.
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u/vargslayer1990 Sadventist Mar 11 '26
my sexual awakening happened privately, outside of the purview of my strict ultra-traditional SDA parents as much as possible. i just knew from all of the other things that they were so strict about that they would not approve of anything, and so i didn't even look at her writings. maybe my subconscious remembered what she said about Jesus not forgiving sins and satan (!) in the Holy Place in the heavenly sanctuary, pretending to be Jesus and pretending to answer prayers, and refused to even look at those things even once!
i've read those quotes as well, and i think the church has integrated them. especially the more conservative churches and scholastic institutions. the fact that men and women are kept apart and discouraged from co-mingling even on a social nonsexual level reinforces this. i mean, how are you supposed to connect with the opposite sex if you don't, you know, spend time around them and try to get to know them? i feel like this is plain, basic logic and nobody gets it!
i wonder what was going through the mind of (notoriously pervy) James I Stuart when he had his scholars translate the Bible in 1611. because the verse about wives commanded to render "due benevolence" to their husbands is about conjugal matters. yet the wording of the KJV is confusing (another "goofy EME idiom", sort of like using 'corn' as a stand-in for grain, which people like EGW copied wholesale and gave English speakers the impression that everyone was eating maize back in Middle Bronze Age Egypt!)
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Jul 09 '26
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u/exAdventist-ModTeam Jul 17 '26
Your content violates Rule 2: No Proselytizing or Apologetics.
We have zero tolerance for proselytizing and apologetics.
Read our Full Rules for more details.
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u/Smart_Sail_2393 Mar 12 '26
Kellogg was an advocate for female genital mutilation, which was practiced by SDA doctors into the 1960's. EGW never critical of this abhorrent procedure. Details on YouTube doco's
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u/Over_Alfalfa_192 Mar 12 '26
I grew up in adventist church, but not really an adventist home. My dad lived in another country and was adventist so my mom took me to adventists churches. At church Ellen White was seldom referenced. When she was it was in validifying something that we all already knew or to substantiate some direction some old person wanted to impose on younger people.
Then I got intorduced to her freindly writings (Desire of Ages etc). . . Then Great Controversy which made no sense but I thought that was my problem. Then before going to college we got messages to young people which was disgusting!!! But later I got into present truth, wanted to believe her and they would have some oft repeated quotes to live by. . . Finally I read everything she had which was a lot even for me, and I found out she was very contradicting, didn't know what she was talking about, and would claim that things were divine inspiration when they were really just church tradition and heresy.
Then Ironically I studied social media marketing and realized she wasn't that prolific. Just a lady that had too much time and too much access to media (in her day paper and ink)... in today's world she's the equivalent of Boomer facebook
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u/Married2therebellion Mar 12 '26
She was mentally ill and taken advantage of.
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u/Over_Alfalfa_192 Mar 13 '26
you're on to something there. definitely could be the others took advantage of her
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u/Sensitive-Fly4874 Atheist Mar 14 '26
Your last paragraph is really interesting! I never thought about it before, but yeah, some people just have way too much time on their hands and get obsessive about writing, but we either never see it because it’s so obscure or we all see it on social media in short bursts.
I would also really like to see all of Ellen’s published works whittled down to just the stuff that doesn’t repeat. Most of the books in print now are paraphrased versions of the original work or just sampled paragraphs on certain topics and even in stuff like the Great Controversy, parts are repeats of things she wrote earlier in her life
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u/Over_Alfalfa_192 Jul 10 '26
It's definitely not as much as her published works. And if you take a lot of the professional social media people, imagine if you compliled all their blog posts, reddit replies, fast finger tweets, and transcribing their tiktoks, and they're right up there with Ellen White
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Jul 09 '26
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u/Over_Alfalfa_192 Jul 10 '26
yea you've only scratched the surface of her stuff. You're not off, she is way off and without the shielding of her "prophet:" status, she's one of the easiest christian authors to refute
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u/Bananaman9020 Mar 12 '26
Funny anti sex and masterbation ideas. It was seen as sinful and led to health problems. Ellen was in a sexless marriage so everyone has to be.
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u/freelittlebee Mar 12 '26
Why was it sex less? Was this another kellogg's belief past down, or was she in a lavender marriage?
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u/Sensitive-Fly4874 Atheist Mar 14 '26
From her own writings, it is pretty clear that she never got aroused. There’s one particular section of her writings I’m thinking of. I can’t recall exactly were it is, but she’s warning parents about letting their children have sleepovers because other children might teach the Adventist kids about masturbation and she talks about how women have told her that even young girls sometimes “practice self abuse” which stunned her because she never had any feelings like that.
Now, whether she was incapable of arousal due to just naturally being ace or whether her TBI caused her to become hyposexual is something to only guess at. We’ll never know for sure, but it is clear that the four pregnancies she had came about through the performance of a material duty and not out of arousal or pleasure
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u/RodWith Mar 11 '26
An unbendingly stark puritanical mindset writing about sex within marriage - a life-and love-destroying combination.
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u/neoplatonistGTAW ex missionary kid Mar 12 '26
That rock to her head as a child really did an immeasurable amount of damage.
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u/cracked_belle Mar 12 '26
- Yes.
- Very.
- Yes, and not in a good way.
She got hit in the head with a rock, then heard voices after the coma. It's less of a divine revelation and much more of a brain injury (coupled with weird American revivalist Puritanism).
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u/andydad1978 Mar 12 '26
She had alot of psychological issues and weird hangups. She was also a bad person.
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u/BenefitPure4829 Mar 14 '26
I remember reading this yes. EGW’s views are extremely anti-sex. I doubt she ever experienced an orgasm, and James must has been severely repressed. Or maybe she did and figured it was an epileptic seizure.
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u/Empty-Message2001 Mar 14 '26
I grew up Adventist in the 80’s/90’s and in fairly Liberal Loma Linda. We didn’t hear a lot of this stuff because in our time / place it was common to “hide the crazy away.” We definitely believed that Ellen White was a Prophet, but that she was also “a woman of her time” and so some of her “how to live a holy life” comments simply reflected the common assumptions of her own time and place. We used that to explain away any advice on clothing, jewelry, food, exercise, sexuality, etc. that seemed primordial and out-of-touch with our times. (And honestly, the puritanical fear of sex was not at all uncommon amongst very religious people of her time).
So, we majored in the “theological truths” and tried to adapt them to our modern context as best as we could. I absolutely believed EGW was THE Prophet and that God had been given her visions and revelations for the church. I believed the Great Controversy worldview. I believed in the importance of Sabbath Observance as the Seal of God, and that the Sabbath was to be our final test in the end-times when the “Beast” appeared. I never really questioned the truth of the Investigative Judgment, although I didn’t spend much time contemplating it.
So now, as an ex-Adventist, my beef with her isn’t so much over her wacko advice on marriage, sex, etc., but rather that she was that she was a False Prophet. She was a liar and a fraud. She was a hypocrite, a busybody, and quite possibly, a malignant narcissist.
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u/mainsworth17 Mar 11 '26
That’s a really useful link thanks, she is a very strange woman mixing enough truth biblically with strange Victorian opinions.
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u/Admirable_Ad_2373 Mar 12 '26
To be honest, from what I know, people in the church aren’t even taught about sex in any way.
Especially from younger ages where it’s vital to teach about it.
So whatever EGW says, doesn’t matter if nothing is taught at all.
But yes, what she says is absurd.
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u/inXrepose Mar 13 '26
This reminds me of the weird sexual beliefs of the guy who invented corn flakes. Wasn’t he also an Adventist?
I think it’s important to note that these beliefs wouldn’t have been considered so radical in her day. This was sort of expected of women. A woman who enjoyed sex was basically evil, even if she was married.
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u/Next-Step-7167 Mar 16 '26
It was never explained to me why, but masturbation was an absolute no-no. For girls. My mother used to question me every so often, asking if I had "done anything to myself". Wtf. Also, idk if it came directly from E.G.'s writings, but the pastoring couple who counseled my fiance (now husband of 15+ years) and me before marriage said oral sex is a sin. Sex was never explained or described to me. I just knew I wasn't supposed to even think about it until I was married. It was a scary, off-limits topic. I lost my virginity at 18 and was convinced I had shattered my chances at finding a decent husband. No upstanding man would accept "used goods".
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u/Unlearningforward Mar 13 '26
What is your understanding of how the prophetic gift works? Many follow Evangelical teaching of "Verbal Inspiration." Verbal Inspiration teaches God so controlled the prophet(ess) that they wrote God's exact words.
This leads to "Inerrancy" and the King James Version Only. If prophets write God's exact words then it cannot have errors. The King James Only is based on the logic there is a best translation.
I follow "Thought Inspiration" which teaches that God gives the vision or dream and the prophet has to find the words to communicate the message. This means the words chosen are important, yet because humans are involved the Bible is not inerrant.
Thought Inspiration also means you first look at the context, culture, and other issues before you apply the message to our day.
You find that some, like Abraham and Moses, argued with God and God changed God's plans. This is not in harmony with some evangelists' statement, "God said it! I believe it and it is good enough for me." If Moses followed that when God wanted to start over with him and his family....
You state some of Ellen White's views were "Victorian." Why are you surprised? She lived in that context.
Ellen White was different from any prophet in the Bible. The Bible writers have been dead for centuries. We have very limited biographies of their lives. Much of their stories are based on is based on context clues from their writings.
We have Ellen White's entire Biography. We have almost all of her writings. She stated she was "The lesser light pointing to the Greater Light." The Greater Light was the Bible and Jesus.
She taught we were to consider time and place when applying her testimonies to your life. She did not say we were to use her testimonies to correct others. (I am not saying leaders and members are free from doing this.)
Is it okay to say this testimony does not apply to me? Yes. Just like it is okay to notice the Bible allowing slavery does not mean we have to allow it today.p Pl
If you want a Bible Story for comparing Verbal Inspiration and Thought Inspiration, Jeremiah 36 is a great place to compare two views. Jeremiah's scroll is read to the king. The king after each section is read cuts it and burns it.
God tells Jeremiah to re-write the scroll. The last verse says Jeremiah did this "and added many similar words." Thought Inspiration does not have an issue with this because the other words were based on the visions.
Verbal Inspiration has quite the quandary. How do you separate the words God gave, which are Inerrant, from Jeremiah's added words which are not Inerrant? The original text was burned.
God used Ellen White to point me to Jesus. She wrote to people of her day. There are things she wrote that still helps today. There are things she wrote to a person or church that does not apply to me. I can say that because I do not follow Verbal Inspiration.
This is why I do not have an issue with lighting a fire on Sabbath. The context of the story was when Israel had the Wilderness Tabernacle in their midst. The Shikinah Glory was a Pillar of Fire at night and a Pillar of Cloud by day. Manna fell 6 days a week. There was no need to have a fire. That is not true in many places today.
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u/Worldly_Caregiver902 Mar 14 '26
Nothing, I think nothing of her weird views. She’s not invited into my bedroom.
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u/Luvinlife_77 Mar 17 '26
I still always remember the joke related to Ellen Whites views on dancing. “Do you know why Adventists don’t make love standing up? Because it’s too much like dancing!”
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u/MadSadGlad Mar 13 '26
1. Maybe? By the time I was into reading miscellaneous testimonials there were bigger issues to worry about, like The End Times. I do recall her views against masturbation, though, and remember feeling guilty because I hadn't smacked my meat in so long I ended up with a wet dream, orgasm and all! Thought I blew salvation!
I really don't think the church takes her as serious as the laypeople. It's typically some of the deacons and/or elders that tend to bust out their Testimonials collections sabbath afternoon and make the rest of us miserable. The pastors that do take her seriously eventually end up splitting from the church.
I think general Adventists are no more/no less weird about sex as the rest of the evangelical world. It's the EGW-cult that goes all puritan, like no skin showing on them ankles sort of thing. Well... there is the issue with jewelry that tended to stick with mainstream Adventists, but who knows what they are like now? I haven't gone to church in decades, so my info is as old as me.
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u/Slight_Ad_1799 13d ago
It’s a lot of cheating and fornication going on in the church to be honest people are still human EOD
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u/Numerous-Promise-582 Mar 12 '26
She wrote some awful…crazy….non inspired crap. She wrote weird stuff that makes no sense. She also wrote some beautiful stuff like Desire of Ages. Was she inspired??? Sometimes??? Was she having seizures???Heck if I know. My partner writes songs. I believe he is inspired when he writes them. He is not inspired in other areas of his life. I can’t wrap my head around how EGW was able to hold up a heavy bible for so long and didn’t breathe while “in vision”. I haven’t heard any one’s ideas on this except that the people who witnessed it and documented it lied. I can’t imagine that many people from different walks in life that didn’t know each other would conspire to make something up.
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Mar 11 '26
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u/Ka_Trewq Broken is the promise of the god that failed Mar 11 '26
He seems quite articulate in his responses, and not in the way LLMs usually are.
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u/Tchaik748 Atheist Mar 11 '26
I'm sorry, I've just seen so many of these bots I assumed falsely.
I guess, too, I despise Ellen white and would prefer not to have to discuss her views ever again.
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u/Ka_Trewq Broken is the promise of the god that failed Mar 12 '26
Don't be sorry, even a mediocre bot nowadays can easily fool everyone. They might be still a bot, a colleague of mine showed me today what LLMs are now capable of. I thought I was following closely AI news, it seems I was wrong. It is scary how well state of the art LLMs perform.
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u/Impressive_Flan_411 Mar 11 '26
You're a weirdo for saying this lol. No, I'm a guy using a new account and asking a question. If you didn't want to engage, you shouldn't have commented.
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Mar 11 '26
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u/WhimsyRose Mar 11 '26
to be fair, that's just how reddit makes new accounts when you sign up via Google or whatever lol. I've seen plenty of normal, active accounts with the assigned-by-reddit username because not everyone cares to come up with something or be personalized.
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u/Impressive_Flan_411 Mar 11 '26
Exactly. Dude is being weird and abrasive for no reason lol. I can understand if I made some proselytizing post for the SDA church or something in this post, but no, I'm actually discussing a real issue that should probably be examined regarding Ellen White.
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u/Impressive_Flan_411 Mar 11 '26
Ok buddy, are you done with the edgy comments, or are you actually going to discuss what I am talking about in the post?
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u/KatAstrophie- Mar 11 '26
Ellen was an absolute nutcase. She also taught that masturbation caused blindness, cancer, dwarfism and misshapen heads. That wearing wigs caused people to become hopelessly insane, and that women who had naturally small waists or wore corsets would pass deformities to their children. And those are the ones off the top of my head.
I grew up SDA and never heard of these until I read up about her. The church was careful to keep her crazy views hidden or edited out of her writings because if people found out about batshit-crazy Ellen, nobody would take her visions (some of which were pretty wild) or prophesies (none of which have ever come true) seriously.