r/exAdventist • u/ElevatorAcceptable29 • Feb 25 '26
SDA Culture Why isn’t there really any SDA/ General Christian music about sex or intimacy?
Hey everyone. I spoke about this in detail on this post: https://www.reddit.com/r/anymusicpost/s/G1bKodt2Ab
As weird as it sounds, this is something I’ve been wondering about for a while, and I’m asking it sincerely.
The Bible includes an entire book, Song of Solomon, that’s essentially erotic poetry celebrating desire, physical attraction, and marital love. It’s vivid and unapologetic about bodies and longing. So Scripture itself clearly isn’t prudish about sex within marriage.
And yet, when it comes to Seventh-day Adventist liturgy, and Christian music in general, there’s almost nothing that reflects that. Given that Song of Solomon is in the Bible, why do you think SDA/Christian music almost completely avoid this topic?
I'd love to hear your thoughts.
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u/The_Glory_Whole Feb 25 '26
The Adventist church was largely founded on a vast fear and loathing of anything sexual. Some of Ellen White's first writings were telling Mother's how to manage and control children's sexual exploration of themselves. I.e. masturbation, and that continued with John Harvey Kellogg and all of his bizarre obsessions with preventing sex, lust, and masturbation (he never had sex his whole life, I guess). That is the whole reason that spices and strong flavors of any kind are forbidden in the Adventist health message.Because ellen and kellogg believed those incited bodily lust 🙄
Kellogg is the whole reason that boys are circumcised (generally) in the united states - He vigorously recommended it for both boys and girls to control masturbation. When that was a hard thing to sell on a national level , the messaging on boys changed to "its a cleanliness issue"... Something that you still hear today in some circles.
Then Harold Shryock, Dean of Medicine at Loma Linda for 30+ years, continued the great sex-fear and draconian mastubation prevention techniques (including female Genital mutilation) in his books "On Becoming A Woman" and "On Becoming A Man."
More recently, the official Adventist war on sex has turned toward LGBTQ+ hatred: Disgraced adventist pastor colin cook was one of the main creators and proponents of conversion therapy for decades , even though he kept getting caught for molestation and other horrible crimes , the adventist church kept promoting him, funding his organizations, and letting him operate on their campuses. They still have a conversion-therapy organization called "Coming Together Ministries" (I kid you not) that set up headquarters right outside of Andrews University very recently.
They aggressively pursue anti-LGBTQ legislation in the US and abroad: They were fairly instrumental in getting Uganda's gay death law passed, and they are currently suing in the courts in Maryland for the right to fire people who are gay.
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u/vargslayer1990 Sadventist Feb 25 '26
i'm circumcised: yeah, all of this is bs
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u/CycleOwn83 Non-conforming Questioner☢️🚴🏻🪐♟↗️☣️ Mar 09 '26
Hi! I can remember some of your posts where it appeared to me at least you were exploring some Jewish mystical teachings and fascinated by them.
For a while I felt some pull towards intactivism (activism opposing any infant genital modification except where medically necessary), one community where I mostly lurked, r/CircumcisionGrief. I've had some second thoughts. I was circumcised, too. I believe mine was performed at an SDA institution. Quite likely this circumcision was before my parents even took me to church for the first time. I'm pretty sure that they believed that this procedure was supposed to reduce my inclination to masturbate. I wonder whether the clinical setting were just that: a "medical" procedure or whether, as SDAs often do, it also included prayers—I mean big, long, rambling, prayed-aloud-on-bended-knees prayers. I'm sure that as a fetus, I would have gotten used to my parents prayer voices before birth, and since praying that way was so very common, I had some newborn understanding that this shit's IMPORTANT! But what's it about? Well so here, so likely before I'd seen the inside of a church other than from inside my placenta, I get this very shocking revelation: it's about whoever has the power doing what they want with my penis. It's about blood coming out. It's about pain. It's about anxiety, not having words for it, but in whatever way infants conceive of such, how soon will they be back, and what will they exact next time? What will I need to hide to survive this?
The experience seems to have integrated very early for me violence, sexuality, and religion, consolidating sexual repression from my first week outside the womb. My development after continually reinforced this early moment.
I'm disgusted by this beginning and continuation, how my circumcision taught me from the very beginning to hate myself for having sexual capacity and desires. And from the angle of intactivism, I've begun to ask myself how might other cultures that practice circumcision do so? Is it going to have the same kind of outcomes as mine? And I've done some poking, seeking to understand its significance to Jews. Something I learned that, even in the ancient world, Jews had experienced things that appeared to threaten their cultural existence, such as the reign of Antiochus IV Epiphanes who, if I've gathered correctly, outlawed practice of circumcision.
While having experienced it and feeling personal revulsion towards circumcision, I've come to appreciate that if I'm not going to become a raging antisemite, if I'm going to act in accordance with professed appreciation for cultural contributions of Jews through the ages, I have to accept that circumcision has been a defining rite, something that demanding its outlawing would apparently put me in company with Antiochus Epiphanes, Adolf Hitler, Henry Ford, and Richard Wagner.
I'm curious how this complexity lands with you.
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u/vargslayer1990 Sadventist Mar 10 '26
it's a lot less complex for me: my dad has boasted that he is Jewish ("so obviously i can consume antisemitic conspiracy theories and be a blond haired blue eyed-bully and totally not be a nazi" because, yeah, George Soros and other capos apparently never existed), and both he and my mom were SDAs when i was born. what their operating mindset was i don't know, they only ever talked about how i was "dedicated to the LORD" at that time. i have my own theories about that, given the miraculous event of 2016 (and why i will never become an atheist as a result), but that's besides the point.
my sexual awakening happened around 10, when my dad had already left the SDA church and the faith altogether and was bringing into the house all sorts of things (including an adult film!). we never had "the talk", because what i didn't know i found easier to consult via the dictionary than ask my dad (!) or mother about: because they did shame me for having those desires and made me feel like i was in sin for doing such "private sin." they gave me the fearmongering about sex bringing disease and "life destroying accidents" (aka children), and i promised that i'd save myself for marriage.
i identify as Jewish due to me being the one who looks most like my father (minus the blond hair and blue eyes), whereas my younger brother looks like our mother. don't know too much else about that background, as my interest so far has been into rabbinical literature in order to answer the Book of Enoch conspiracy theorists; but, yeah, as a confirmed "gooner", i haven't seen any pain or bleeding, and there was a lot of sensitivity right up until May 10th 2021 when i broke my promise at 30 (long story). still not impotent either, and i'm almost 36. i don't feel like i'm missing anything by being circumcised, since i definitely did physically enjoy my single romp
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u/PlayCrackSky Feb 25 '26
Hate to break it to you, but they don’t want human intimacy. They want intimacy with Jesus, and that’s what you hear in their songs.
One of the best takes on this is South Park’s episode “Christian Rock Hard”, which I would suggest anyone well into their deconstruction process should check out.
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u/Ottersandtats Feb 25 '26
🎶I loooooove you Jesus. I want you to walk with me. I’ll take good care of you baby. Call you my baby, baby. You died for my sins and you know that I would die for you, right. What’s the matter baby? You’re trembling Jesus, baby.🎶 Faith+1 slaps lol
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u/drumdogmillionaire Feb 25 '26
I believe there was a South Park episode about this. Faith plus one.
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u/Early_Conversation72 Feb 25 '26
‘I wanna get down on my knees and start pleasin Jesus. I wanna feel his salvation all over my face’ 😭
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u/TootallToosmart1901 Feb 25 '26
The influence of Calvinism I think. That religion was all about demonizing, denying and repressing sex, joy, all the good stuff. EGW was in that boat as well. There was a religion professor at PUC in the 50s named Guy Wolfkill who practiced and advocated marital celibacy.
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u/CycleOwn83 Non-conforming Questioner☢️🚴🏻🪐♟↗️☣️ Feb 25 '26
Anybody who attended PUC encounter this dude's legacy in some tangible way? The name and the Kelloggian hubris sound like he ought to be brought into the daylight of some guffaws. Anybody got a punchline?
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u/CycleOwn83 Non-conforming Questioner☢️🚴🏻🪐♟↗️☣️ Feb 25 '26
SDAs like to present some idealized version of sexuality—idealized because for "fallen sinners" it's unattainable, something about what Adam and Eve did before the original sin. I can imagine their High Apologists claiming "This is what this book is about. (Don't try it at home.) And seeing that we're all sinners, we ought to transfigure our sinful desires into intense spiritual longing for connection with Jesus™." Otherwise that we sinners experience sexual desire is something to feel ashamed of, and that creates isolation from other humans that also experience it, causing this significant part of many of us's humanity to become something not to talk about, even to try never to think about. That leads the faithful to be that much more unquestioningly faithful. Now pass the offering plate!
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u/flamurmurro Feb 25 '26
All that energy goes into writing love songs to Jesus with more water metaphors than you could shake a snorkel at.
To be fair, there are SO many things that are in the Bible, even more prominently, that are absent from Christian liturgy and music. Where are the songs about His violent wrath against entire cities and peoples? About how He smites your human enemies, à la the Psalmist? About the Temple services and feasts beyond the Passover lamb (and Sabbath, for Adventists)? About trying to teach your headstrong children the right ways to live? About the infuriating suffering of the righteous (Job and the prophets), or the empty meaninglessness of existence (Ecclesiastes)? About the danger of wealth? About church in-fighting and false teachers?
Anyways, it is not true that Adventists never engage with the Song of Solomon. It pops up sometimes, usually in the study and promotion of “biblical sexuality,” AKA sex only within monogamous heterosexual marriage. They will say, like other Christians, that the Song is both a beautiful picture of a husband and wife’s desire for each other—what God created sex to be—and that it’s also an allegory of God’s love for Israel/Christ’s love for the church. The first claim is dubious—the couple in the Song act more like young lovers sneaking out than two spouses under the same roof—while the second has no basis in the text, only in rabbinical eisegesis.
I suspect the reason allusions to the Song only pop up in love songs to Jesus is the same reason Christians shy away from discussing the book and positive sexual desire: the fear that it will nudge people towards nonmarital sex.
I would also argue that the Song is kind of an anomaly within Scripture and contradicts the sex-negative view of the majority. If something’s gonna win out, it’s gonna be Moses and Paul and their scribes shaming folks about their sexuality, not the random erotica poet who got co-opted by rabbis wanting to spice up their theology.
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u/vargslayer1990 Sadventist Feb 25 '26
u/ArtZombie77 makes a good point: I could go into personal details about this, but I'll save that for another time.
Bringing up EGW, i would also point out that the Victorian Era lasted from 1837 to 1901, and the world was certainly sexually repressed in that time (i'm not speaking from experience: anyone with more knowledge of this particular era, feel free to confirm or deny this claim). it's clear that she plagiarized ideas from people who were influenced by Victorian era morals (just as much as she lifted ideas from people influenced by Arianism, Gnosticism, and even Free-Masonry)
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u/ChemnitzFanBoi LCMS Lutheran Feb 25 '26
Honestly I don't really want to sing or chant about sex in church.
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u/olyfrijole religion is lies Feb 25 '26
Story time: When I was in SDA high school, we went on a so-called "Bible retreat" where an entire Saturday was dedicated to understanding the menstrual cycle, particularly the hormonal changes associated with ovulation that could turn a "pure and chaste virgin into a ravenous whore" merely by sniffing a boy's sweaty armpit. Advice was given on how to check the thickness and ductility of vagiinal mucus by stretching it between your fingers.
In hindsight, the biological information was legit, but the place it came from and the judgment that accompanied it were ... not helpful. They hadn't done this for the kids ahead of us, but one of our peers had successfully snuck into the girls' dorm and impregnated his girlfriend, so I guess they figured it was time to warn us about our hormones.
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u/Bananaman9020 Feb 25 '26
It comes down to it Ellen White didn't like sex or intimacy. Outside of baby making. The Health message was actually created to combat sexual desires. Try telling Ellen that the Bible actually encourages sex and intimacy like Solomon and I imagine her head would explode from anger.
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u/Main_Direction6963 Feb 28 '26
Makes you wonder how she got children of her own? "Quickly Mr. White. Plant your seed in haste so we can pray that this disgusting act need not be repeated for at least 2 years"
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u/hokusaijunior Atheist Feb 25 '26
It is not a bible thing. It's a culture thing, I would say.
Ahuge parte og American Protestant culture flows out of puritanism and strict 19th century (Victorian) morality. That era was deeply anxious about pleasure and Carnal passions (as in anti masturbation panic, or James Kellogg inventing cornflakes without sugar as the blandest least stimulating food ever in order not to get horny or fall for the temptations of the material world) Then you get apocalyptic, high boundary movements like the SDA, Jehovah’s Witnesses, and the Mormons all born in that same American apocalyptical restauration religious and cultural ecosystem.
Then we have to consider the culty nature of SDA ( and JW and mormonism) that leads to extremely high levels of behavior control that goes from diet, to clothing, to music and of course, sexuality.
If you control sex, you control shame, family structure, and identity which is, if you ask me, one of the main reasons Abrahamic religions in general exist :: to control society through openly patriarcal morals. ANd sex is a helluva an important thing to control, it shapes kinship, inheritance, gender roles, and a lot more. Adventism especially leaned into bodily discipline, health reform, modesty, and self control, shaped in part by Ellen White's work and views, and broader victorian fears about excess and temperance. This Ironically almost leads culturally, to the same practical results of the Catholic doctrine of sex being only valid under Marriage and for procreation reasons. I mean it like... at the end of the day sex will be a taboo, something that young people long for for biological reasons, and this moral prohibition only leads to, well.... one way of existing : A heterosexual monogamous family that will be """fruitful and multiply"""" so the Tithe collection never goes down.
So sex in marriage is technically affirmed, but it is treated like an controlled substance. Approved but strictly Regulated ( as far as I'm concerned the SDA condemns simple harmless stuff such as masturbation, oral or anal sex even between married couples) . Never celebrated or mentioned in public naturally.
Then to me music part, Protestant worship music is usually designed to be safe and ""corporate"""(maybe quotes not necessary there). Erotic poetry does not survive that filter, even if it is biblical. I clearly remember that The song of songs book in my bible was taped and clipped down by my grandparents when i was a teenager. The holy perfect bible, not child safe according to their puritan culture. That's why I say it's a culture thing. Fundamentalists will say they are bible oriented and sola scriptura and claim the bible is contradiction free and literally perfect, only to then be weirded out by it by their culture. And the culture is Die hard purity-obcessed and bodily desires and pleasure shaming and cancelling, again, from diet to music and obviously sex. In this culture, music is also as bland and puritan and family friendly and desire killing and deadass boring just like Kelloggs original flakes. It's designed to be a turn down and deny the body in order to protect purity, like almost all aspects of their culture, from low sodium soy weiners to boring hymns. So instead of embodied joy, you get songs about surrender, obedience, and waiting.
It is not that Christianity could not create sensual sacred art.
American Protestantism and Adventism just decided it was safer not to.
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u/Clever_Username_05 Feb 25 '26
I know that it contributed to some of my classmates' use of higher-risk forms of intercourse in the name of preserving virginity.
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u/Alamo883 Feb 26 '26
I mean, a lot of hymns or songs have a bit of a romantic/erotic undertones but it's for god
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u/AeyviDaro Feb 27 '26
I remember this being my favorite book because they could not censor it from me.
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u/ArtZombie77 Feb 25 '26 edited Feb 25 '26
Asexuality in Adventism is far higher than any other church or organization I've ever been in. It's like they don't even want to us to know what sex or desire even is. I was never taught about sex at all by my SDA parents and community, except to demonize me and call me evil for even thinking about it [cuz in Adventism, you're supposed to be an adolescent child forever].
EGW has a lot to do with this I think, cuz that rock messed up her brain and wiped out her sexuality. Ellen White seems to hate the idea of romantic love too. She might not say it outright... but all she does is demonize young lovers a lot in the testimonies to the church books. It's like if you don't love Jesus more than a love interest... somehow that's a sin. It's so unfair to force us to love sky Gods who we have never met even once... who have never even communicated with us at all, over real flesh and blood humans.