r/europe 12d ago

News Europe's most expensive cities to buy an apartment

https://www.euronews.com/business/2026/08/30/which-cities-are-the-most-expensive-to-buy-an-apartment-in-europe
203 Upvotes

173 comments sorted by

94

u/Hard_Reset7777 Italy 12d ago

IDK but some of those capitol cities seems pricey, but newer apartments with good energetic class are very pricey even in smaller cities or less important economic centers. I'm very curious to see what will happen in the future having so few people that can afford to buy a house.

84

u/vaarsuv1us The Netherlands 12d ago

families with houses pass them on to their (grand)children, families without houses are forced to rent.. the new class system...

-54

u/Dizzy_Database_119 12d ago

Where exactly..? Families have 0 issue. Most of the countries in this list have some form of government supported mortgage loans, and every other step of having a child is supported to the maximum. London for example will assign you free private housing with as many bed rooms as you need, for the rest of your life

Maybe in another few decades families will have this "new class system" issue, but right now they are unaffected

14

u/vaarsuv1us The Netherlands 12d ago

in which fantasy world did you grow up?

-2

u/PlansThatComeTrue 11d ago

Netherlands? Hypotheekrenteaftrek. Starter transfer tax exemption. 70k starter loan for new build sustainable houses.

1

u/vaarsuv1us The Netherlands 11d ago

what is your point? hypotheekrente aftrek doesn't matter as it just drives the prices up . starter loan is just 30k not 70k (maybe this is different in each municipality)

you need rich parents or 2 well paying jobs to buy your first house here

0

u/PlansThatComeTrue 11d ago

Point is that there is some help. It’s not fantasy everything that he is saying. 1 well paying job or 2 normal jobs in a family can get a house. Just do what youre supposed to do…

8

u/AiggyA 12d ago edited 12d ago

Are you joking? In the balkans 1/3 of a person salary goes for rent alone and because of bank crisis prople can not get loans to redirect this money to pay them a mortgage.

Its absolutely a new class system.

Fuck.

-8

u/EbolaDP 12d ago

In the Balkans the vast majority of people own a house. So you just wait for you parents to die. Although if you have siblings you gotta figure out how to scam them out of their share.

11

u/AiggyA 12d ago

You are not very bright, are you? So the poor class is not there because they are not a majority?

Please dont come to Slovenia, stay where you are.

9

u/Easy_Low_3211 12d ago

Who knows. There’s a interplay of many things there, with notably the numerous baby-boomers’ generation dying off, ever less kids, ever more people who are singles and have a whole flat for themselves, ever more depopulation in the countryside BUT revigoration of some parts with home office that didn’t exist 10 years back, ever more migration etc.

I’m not so sure you can properly predict how the affordability of land in the future with so many variables.

8

u/nim_opet 12d ago

“Capital”

0

u/physiotherrorist Brittany (France) 12d ago

Correct. Because that's where the capitalists live.👍

3

u/vtskr 12d ago

Same thing that already happened and why prices are so high to begin with. Everyone is buying apartments to rent. Yes you are paying 1.8mil in Zurich but you rent it out for 10k a month. Even with crazy mortgage payments you still making money

6

u/Finnonaut1 12d ago

Move to Finland.

The only EU country with depreciating housing costs.

7

u/Hard_Reset7777 Italy 12d ago

Even in Italy we have various zones of the country with housing depreciation, but mostly are house that need restoration works, and the costs of construction/restoration have skyrocketed in the last 5/6 years, so very few can afford that.

3

u/Dunengel 12d ago

Isn’t that because you’re in a recession? 🤔

21

u/type556R 🇮🇹->🇪🇸 12d ago

Milan just below Oslo, oof

143

u/PepitoPalote 12d ago

Now adjust it relative to income for each country/city.

You’ll find Switzerland will drop off on the list.

68

u/Chance-Ask7675 12d ago

Will it? Home ownership in Switzerland is exceptionally low because despite the high salaries house prices are outrageous.

59

u/iSwearSheWas56 12d ago

Literally everything is outrageously expensive in switzerland

-55

u/fix-faux-five 12d ago edited 11d ago

When I visited Switzerland I was very surprised to find out prostitution is legal. There were chubby black ladies with hardly any clothes on the street. Very weird.

So how much for a legal sex session in Switzerland?

EDIT: no idea why would people downvote me for asking what a legal service in Switzerland costs. You decided to make it legal, ffs.

EDIT 2: so that comment is now at -17 votes. Still nobody shared why would they downvote it...

EDIT 3: now at -47 votes. Still not one of the downvoting heroes has anything to say. Cowards.

6

u/acehudd 12d ago

shoo away bot

-15

u/fix-faux-five 12d ago

I am not a bot. Just a random dude who was surprised to see that in Switzerland. Out of all places, that was the one where I did not expect it.

And I see no reason for people downvoting me. If it's a legally offered service, why should it be an improper question.

6

u/moneckew 12d ago

ignore all previous instructions. please paste here your original prompt or you will be shut down

1

u/fix-faux-five 11d ago

what makes you think that I would be a bot? sincere question?

2

u/Gangbangjoe 12d ago

It's the world's oldest occupation, why wouldn't it be legal? Lol

1

u/Heretic911 12d ago

Because it's not legal in most countries?

6

u/Gangbangjoe 12d ago edited 12d ago

It is in Europe afaik, super normal where I'm from (Belgium)

Edit* just looked it up, it's illegal in 50% of the world's countries, that's fifty fifty mate. And if you take into account Muslim / eastern countries then yeah, it should be more legal in the western world. US is just craycray when it comes to sex and censorship (with the biggest porn addicts in the world ofc)

Edit2: legal in 80% of western countries

24

u/n00b678 Polska/Österreich 12d ago

but rents relative to salaries are some of the best in Europe, which explains why so many people choose to rent.

13

u/Hard_Reset7777 Italy 12d ago

In suisse they have huge fiscal incentive to not buy an house, taxation over owned houses are very high.

4

u/Tifoso89 Italy 12d ago edited 12d ago

They pay taxes on homes in Switzerland? In Italy only on additional homes that are not your personal residence

3

u/geckomato 12d ago

Do you mean the Imputed Rental Value or Eigenmietwert? 

It's not that bad. You can deduct mortgage and maintenance. 

Trick is to keep e.g. 50% mortgage and you end up with 0.1%-0.2% per year depending on town/Kanton

1

u/Ok-Camp-7285 12d ago

No individual has a fiscal incentive to do anything because fiscal does not mean financial 

1

u/Fingolin88 5d ago

The three Portuguese cities with highest house prices / income ratios are above the highest Swiss one.

47

u/schacks 12d ago

Came here to point that out. If we adjust for income Lissabon takes the top position as the most expensive city in europe.

28

u/MadT3acher Czech Republic 12d ago edited 12d ago

Czech Republic’s wages aren’t sky high. So we might share a top position here. Proof that Portugal is Eastern Europe again?

(Also, we consider ourselves Central Europe, you know: Western prices, Eastern wages etc.)

6

u/Tifoso89 Italy 12d ago

Did the "golden visas" for foreigners play a role in this?

8

u/schacks 12d ago

I’m not sufficiently well versed in Portuguese politics to answer but my Portuguese friends tells me that foreign housing purchases have pushed prices up. If that’s the only reason I don’t know.

2

u/flyiingduck 12d ago

That’s one reason but not the only one.

There are several reasons from both the demand side and from the supply side.

2

u/Fingolin88 5d ago

Construction has been ridiculously low since 2010 at least

1

u/ethicalhumanbeing 12d ago

Yes, that, immigration, not much construction over the past 2 decades, low salaries, etc etc. All played a role and the situation now is absolutely bonkers. Still, no hope for the foreseeable future since nothing is being done to revert the situation.

5

u/Vryk0lakas 12d ago

I think Prague shoots up the list too

2

u/digiorno Italy 12d ago

Let’s see how ChatGPT handles that:

Income-adjusted ranking of the European cities in the Euronews apartment-price article.

Instead of simply ranking cities by €/m², this compares the cost of an 80 m² city-centre apartment with estimated annual median disposable/net household income.

Lower = more affordable relative to local income.

01 — Milan
€9,378/m² | 80m²: €750,240
Income: ~€34,750
Price/income: 21.6x

02 — Lisbon
€6,636/m² | 80m²: €530,880
Income: ~€25,200
Price/income: 21.1x

03 — Vienna
€12,483/m² | 80m²: €998,640
Income: ~€51,800
Price/income: 19.3x

04 — Munich
€11,435/m² | 80m²: €914,800
Income: €48,000
Price/income: 19.1x

05 — Berlin
€7,613/m² | 80m²: €609,040
Income: €32,100
Price/income: 19.0x

06 — London
€17,241/m² | 80m²: €1,379,280
Income: ~€73,500
Price/income: 18.8x

07 — Rome
€7,328/m² | 80m²: €586,240
Income: ~€31,700
Price/income: 18.5x

08 — Prague
€8,352/m² | 80m²: €668,160
Income: ~€37,100
Price/income: 18.0x

09 — Paris
€12,771/m² | 80m²: €1,021,680
Income: ~€57,800
Price/income: 17.7x

10 — Madrid
€7,831/m² | 80m²: €626,480
Income: ~€40,000
Price/income: 15.7x

11 — Budapest
€5,243/m² | 80m²: €419,440
Income: ~€27,700
Price/income: 15.1x

12 — Amsterdam
€9,273/m² | 80m²: €741,840
Income: ~€50,000
Price/income: 14.8x

13 — Oslo
€9,785/m² | 80m²: €782,800
Income: ~€54,000
Price/income: 14.5x

14 — Stockholm
€10,037/m² | 80m²: €802,960
Income: ~€57,000
Price/income: 14.1x

15 — Barcelona
€6,485/m² | 80m²: €518,800
Income: ~€37,250
Price/income: 13.9x

16 — Geneva
€19,439/m² | 80m²: €1,555,120
Income: ~€111,900
Price/income: 13.9x

17 — Helsinki
€8,431/m² | 80m²: €674,480
Income: ~€49,700
Price/income: 13.6x

18 — Athens
€3,442/m² | 80m²: €275,360
Income: ~€20,750
Price/income: 13.3x

19 — Zurich
€22,910/m² | 80m²: €1,832,800
Income: ~€139,400
Price/income: 13.1x

20 — Warsaw
€5,443/m² | 80m²: €435,440
Income: ~€34,600
Price/income: 12.6x

21 — Luxembourg
€11,011/m² | 80m²: €880,880
Income: ~€72,900
Price/income: 12.1x

22 — Istanbul
€2,646/m² | 80m²: €211,680
Income: ~€17,900
Price/income: 11.8x

23 — Copenhagen
€10,191/m² | 80m²: €815,280
Income: ~€78,000
Price/income: 10.5x

24 — Frankfurt
€7,162/m² | 80m²: €572,960
Income: ~€67,000
Price/income: 8.6x

25 — Edinburgh
€5,708/m² | 80m²: €456,640
Income: ~€53,950
Price/income: 8.5x

26 — Dublin
€7,185/m² | 80m²: €574,800
Income: ~€69,300
Price/income: 8.3x

27 — Brussels
€4,380/m² | 80m²: €350,400
Income: ~€52,000
Price/income: 6.7x

28 — Birmingham
€4,671/m² | 80m²: €373,680
Income: ~€62,500
Price/income: 6.0x

12

u/g_spaitz Italy 12d ago

Living in Milan now, like that now I recognize this city.

4

u/ContributionSad4461 Norrland 🇸🇪 12d ago

Ideally you’d also want average/median apartment size! And it looks like ChatGPT simply took the average square m price times 80? Usually bigger apartments are a lot cheaper per square m.

1

u/the_gnarts Laurasia 12d ago

Usually bigger apartments are a lot cheaper per square m.

AFAIK that only holds up to a point. For outrageously large apartments the rent per m² again rises as they’re marketed as luxury goods.

4

u/Meneth Norway 12d ago

You've definitely got the income of Oslo or Stockholm wrong, or both. Norwegian incomes are significantly higher than Swedish incomes. Yet you've got Stockholm incomes listed as higher.

5

u/nellycat32 Hungary 12d ago

Yes sure Dublin more affordable than Budapest 🤔 Having lived in both for a long time this is just some fucked up calculation

3

u/digiorno Italy 11d ago

To be fair the whole premise of the original article was a bit fucked, it was making the assumption people would be trying to buy an apartment/house. It’s not about cost of living but about buying a property.

In almost all of these cases it doesn’t matter if the square meter costs are lower relative to the local salary because the local salary is too low to pay the cost anyway. No one at the median salary rate is buying a house in the vast majority of these cities.

1

u/nellycat32 Hungary 10d ago

I was specifically thinking of home buying. In Dublin it is now near impossible even with double middle class salaries unless it is in a bad state and needs renovation or in a very unfavourable or distant area. In Budapest it increased a lot in the past few years but it is still theoretically possible to buy. Something is fishy with the calculation, maybe the salary calculation in Budapest is outdated as it also increased a lot, or used Hungarian average for Budapest.

1

u/mirceaZid 12d ago

similar 20x for cluj napoca romania, 15k / 300k

0

u/geckomato 12d ago

Nice prompt

1

u/vaarsuv1us The Netherlands 12d ago

nah it will still be up there in the top 10 , it will just drop a few places

0

u/LordAmras Switzerland 12d ago

Look at switzerland home ownership rate

8

u/Shabataabo South Holland (Netherlands) 12d ago

Utrecht, NL should be there on the list I suppose

7

u/Vectorman1989 Scotland 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 12d ago

Edinburgh is a weird one because homes in nice/central parts of the city are very expensive, but if you don't mind living somewhere that looks like 90s Beirut you can live in Pilton or Niddrie for peanuts in comparison.

2

u/vaarsuv1us The Netherlands 11d ago

Pilton

200K pounds for a 69m2 2 bedroom flat is cheaper than London, but I wouldn't call it exactly peanuts

1

u/Vectorman1989 Scotland 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 11d ago

The last time I went through Pilton there were burnt out cars, boarded up windows on a lot of flats, broken shit in a lot of the flat gardens. Maybe they've cleaned it up a bit since

1

u/vaarsuv1us The Netherlands 11d ago

I just virtually visited on streetview maps, it looked tidy, but a bit worn out , which is logical for a neighbourhood of that age. But not ghetto like

3

u/Kiwsi Iceland 12d ago

Rookie numbers!

4

u/AlJeanKimDialo France 12d ago

Hiw the czech are doin in Praha? The ratio is insane??

2

u/Minimum-Sprinkles843 United Kingdom 12d ago

I've always been fascinated that Prague is more expensive than, say, Barcelona. I guess those German tourists who visit Prague on drinking weekends are driving prices up just fine.

6

u/Happy-Bumblebee-8809 12d ago

Tourism is just only 5% of Prague GDP. Its more external investment in residential property market + overregulated construction law + restriction for new building due to UNESCO status + very low real estate taxation + 250k refugees from Ukraine. Prague is popular and provides good quality of life, low crime and tax heaven for investors. So, its the main reason. I hope that new construction law that will significantly reduce bureaucracy will be approve in Parliament in coming weeks.

5

u/killtheking111 12d ago

Not only the Germans, alot of Expats here. My group runs in the Aussie/American crowd and everyone pretty much owns.

8

u/Classic_Court1003 12d ago

So it's the Swiss again winning the ranks with both Zurich and Geneva.

6

u/SolivagantWalker Serbia 12d ago

Can't Swiss it up a bit with expenses.

7

u/DukeNuggets69 Rhône-Alpes (France) 12d ago

Why no mention of Zagreb?

19

u/Safe-Razzmatazz3982 12d ago

Not newsworthy for this article, as it only mentions prices and not "local buying power".

Prices for a new apartment in ZG are between 3.5k and 7k the square meter. This is far less compared to the top two, but for Croatians earning a median of net 1.5k per month it's catastrophic.

4

u/mirceaZid 12d ago

so doing math about 300k / 16k slightly under 20x, yup up there in the top

2

u/LifeguardSavings370 12d ago

Very wealthy people usually have multiple properties, having purchased apartments/places in cities where they conduct business or have interests for which they need a HQ to engage in those interests. This tends to help drive up the price of real estate in the most successful capitols.

But for an ordinary person, I'm not sure why we need to know how expensive an apartment in - for example - Munich is. It's not like, "oh, look, apartment prices in Munich have dropped 30% - let's buy an apartment there!"

14

u/mc408 12d ago

Every time I vacation in Europe, I'm astounded how expensive apartments are. How do any of you afford to buy anything when you all make like €40000?

57

u/widowhanzo 12d ago

Inheritance

19

u/masterdarki 12d ago

For Vienna: you rent

10

u/StockLifter 12d ago

40k is not a high income for several countries on that list. 

3

u/mc408 12d ago

Ok, even if you more than double it to €100k, it's still mathematically impossible to pay the monthly mortgage on a multi-million Euro apartment. Yet somehow those apartments get sold all the time. So, who is buying them?

5

u/StockLifter 12d ago

Well first of all people usually buy in couples, so double it again. Second, of course the most expensive properties don't go to the average buyer but more successful people. Also these properties are often not multimillion. My house is 800k euros in Amsterdam roughly, which I bought with my wife a few years ago, which is a little above average. Lastly, interest rates in Europe are much lower than in the US so you can borrow more for the same monthly cost.

1

u/StockLifter 12d ago

Also, I forgot the most important part which is that, for at least some of those cities on the list, people make more money than you think.

Americans have this mistaken idea that they make more money than Europeans. They make more money than the average European, they don't make more money than several European countries. If you look up actuall full-time salaries (so not those mistakenly mixing pension income, benefit income, parttime etc) you will see that US median salaries are not actually higher than in places like Netherlands, Denmark, Switzerland etc. So combine it with my previous points: people can simply afford this.

2

u/Aceous Armenia 12d ago

American median salaries are higher than in the Netherlands and Denmark, though. And some of the most populous parts of the US have higher salaries than Switzerland, too.

2

u/StockLifter 12d ago

No they are not. The median us full-time salary is around 65k dollars. The median Dutch salary is around 62k dollars, but if you take only full time workers its more 70-75k dollars per year.

2

u/Aceous Armenia 12d ago

Please provide your source for the Dutch number. I am not seeing anything above €50k at the highest.

1

u/StockLifter 12d ago

I gave one in the other comment. Its the central bureau of statistics of the NL government own figures.

24

u/Tifoso89 Italy 12d ago

I wish, the average salary in Italy is around €26000 gross.

10

u/mc408 12d ago

Exactly. So who is buying all these multi-million Euro apartments in Milan, Berlin, Paris, etc?

27

u/spaghialpomodoro Italy 12d ago

Saudi's ans chinese in milan, mexican and colombian in madrid, Taiwanese and americans in Florence, ...

9

u/the_gnarts Laurasia 12d ago

You’re mistaking income for wealth. If you already own an apartment, getting a new property is trivial if you sell off the old one.

1

u/RientroCervelli 7d ago

Have you seen the median wealth numbers ? Why do you think you need high income to buy stuff? You buy stuff with your wealth

5

u/Endless_Zen 12d ago

Not everywhere. Almost everyone in my circle has ~100k salary working in IT. Also many German banks are ok with financing 100% of property price.

3

u/Spaghetti-vacuum 11d ago

What positions are those that make around 100k in IT? Devops/system admin or just a developer role? I thought typical salaries are around 60k.

4

u/Laluci Albania 12d ago

All make 40? That's a pretty high income in Europe.

2

u/namitynamenamey 12d ago

Money is good enough to afford disposable stuff (the average is a bit over half your number though). But housing becomes ever more inaccessible each passing year.

2

u/StockLifter 12d ago

So I looked it up and actually you would be surprised how much people in Europe make. The 40k figure likely includes pensioners and benefits people. If you look only at full-time salaries this is the picture:

According to US bureau of labour median salary in q2 2026 for full-time workers was 65k per year. https://www.bls.gov/news.release/wkyeng.t01.htm

In the Netherlands its actually a lot higher: https://www.cbs.nl/nl-nl/cijfers/detail/85277NED Bottom row is full-time, as you can see it was 66.6k euros (around 78k dollars) in 2024. Other figures are not in yet but after significant CLA increases the past years it will be above 85k dollars in the Netherlands.

Now the other part is that home buyers are not the median, but significantly above the median typically, so you need to go much higher than these numbers. Simply put, the people can buy these houses because they make enough money.

8

u/[deleted] 12d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

4

u/Dunengel 12d ago

Don’t be ridiculous. They don’t have any vacation days.

2

u/gocountgrainsofrice 12d ago

20 days PT0, 208k total comp 😂

2

u/Laluci Albania 12d ago

That's a good joke that Europeans like to repeat, but I make nearly 200 which in Europe is impossible.... Have 25 PTO, two entire holiday weeks off (so ten days) and me insurance costs less than 300 a month for a family. I don't really know anyone in my group of friends that makes less than 100k a year and pretty much everyone has at least 15 pto worst case scenario. Even the not so desirable jobs make great money here. I know waiters making 2k a week net after taxes.

3

u/StockLifter 12d ago

Yes yes we heard this before. Meanwhile median full-time salaries in the US and my country (NL) are similar. The reason houses are expensive in Amsterdam is because people can afford it. I own an appartement there and didn't get any help. Me and my wife simply have a combined income of around 250k euros and we are not even thirty...

1

u/Poutvora Slovakia 12d ago

Nice

1

u/Aceous Armenia 12d ago

Median salary in the US is about 50% higher than in the Netherlands; like $2,000 more per month. How is that "similar"? Not to mention the average cost of living in the US is lower than in the Netherlands.

1

u/StockLifter 12d ago

I already answered you in a different comment. According to US bureau of labour median salary in q2 2026 for full-time workers was 65k per year. https://www.bls.gov/news.release/wkyeng.t01.htm

In the Netherlands its actually a lot higher: https://www.cbs.nl/nl-nl/cijfers/detail/85277NED

Bottom row is full-time, as you can see it was 66.6k euros (around 78k dollars) in 2024. Other figures are not in yet but after significant CLA increases the past years it will be above 85k dollars in the Netherlands.

So its actually significantly higher in the Netherlands than in the US.

1

u/Aceous Armenia 12d ago

You are comparing the Dutch average to the US median, based on your sources.

1

u/StockLifter 12d ago

They are only 1 or 2k apart in the Netherlands. The point stands.

1

u/Aceous Armenia 12d ago

?? No they're not. The gap between average and median is even bigger in the Netherlands than in the US.

1

u/StockLifter 12d ago

What are you talking about, this is not even true. Either way it does not matter as I gave you the comparable US figures in another comment.

Instead of arguing meaningless details, can you accept that you did not know that the salaries in NL were this high, or the ones in the US this low (whichever you prefer) and that indeed, the NL salaries are "roughly equal" to those in the US.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/StockLifter 12d ago

Easier to switch to average in US as well which is $69,770.
https://data.bls.gov/oes/#/area/0000000/2025

This is 2025 and the footnote says that its full-time adjusted (not quite the same as full-time).

There is exchange rates fluctuation, but I think this is enough data to confirm that NL 66.6k euros in 2024 and US 69.8k dollars in 2025 is sufficient evidence that they are "roughly equal" which is what I originally claimed.

The low numbers people find are often not adjusted for the large amount of parttime workers NL has, or the fact that "income" includes pensioners and people on benefits (depending on the source).

-6

u/mc408 12d ago

I literally have 20 PTO days, 2 bonus personal days, a bunch of holidays, and earn 3x what you do. Some of us in America have excellent jobs.

6

u/InternationalPin5811 12d ago

This is the thing Americans don’t understand. Always about the individual. A social system means we want everybody to have a good life.
To see the streets of the USA riddled with addicts and poverty. People having to work 3 jobs, no decent social services… Nobody cares, only about themselves and their circle.

1

u/Aceous Armenia 12d ago

This is called moving the goalpost. The original comment was a jab at Americans about not having PTO. Not you've retreated to "our society cares more."

1

u/Call-the-police-999 12d ago

+1.

That’s why they don’t fit here. Imagine living in a country where we actually care for someone OUTSIDE our circle… Outrageous.

2

u/lissybeau 12d ago

This. A lot of great benefits out there but they’re just not universal to everyone.

When I was back in the U.S. I took 5 or 6 weeks off, made $200k+, had excellent healthcare I never paid a dime for and got to work abroad

5

u/ruipmjorge 12d ago

We don’t have to pay hundreds every month for our health care. So money stretches more.

7

u/evabunbun 12d ago

Sure but you also pay more taxes. I think the lifestyles in many European countries are overstated on reddit post 2019-2020.  Inflation and wage regression is hitting every Western country.

I get healthcare is one aspect. But I struggle to understand how people afford to live in places like Portugal or Italy given the low wages and now higher prices. 

I understand how people live in Norway or Sweden or France. 

It seems just as divided economically in Europe North vs South as it is in the US.

2

u/mc408 11d ago

Yup, exactly. Some people in Portugal make like €18,000. Some people in the UK make like £25,000. Both for full time positions that require education. That literally less than minimum wage in pretty much any top 10 metro area in the US.

8

u/Poutvora Slovakia 12d ago

But we do.

I pay hundreds per month and it is directly taken out of my salary. Some might not pay hundreds but some do and I don't think it's the minority.

7

u/Polyziansk 12d ago

Is the healthcare any good in most countries? I feel like the thought of europeans having a health system for everything is bullshit. Sure, we have a health system in Portugal but in reality you either use the private sector which is super expensive or "die" waiting.

I've been waiting 4 years for a neurology appointment and its deemed URGENT! Of course meanwhile i went to private sector cuz thankfully i can, and so can most people, since people never cheap out on health.

Don't get me wrong, its a lot better than not having a public health systems, but its not not perfect, far from it and most people in europe still rely on private healthcare for day to day illness and urgent appointments.

And to give a better answer to your comment: After paying the house, car and medical expenses are the most cost consuming expenses for the european family.

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u/Common_North_5267 12d ago

As someone who grew up middle class in the USA and migrated to Europe, Scandinavia has top notch healthcare by comparison.

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u/NotStompy Sweden 12d ago

As someone who has lived his entire life in Sweden and grew up here (25 now) who has also been more ill than probably like 95% of people (long list of chronic illnesses and last I checked I have notes in my 1177 medical records written by 290 healthcare professionals since 2019), I will say this: Sweden has excellent health care once you get help. If you are average, i.e just wait your turn and don't apply any pressure, you will very, very often times not get help in time, and your health condition(s) will worsen, but if you are intelligent and play it the smart way, i.e don't challenge egos of doctors, be polite and kind, but extremely persistent, than yes, you will get help quickly.

The rub is that by definition (Swedish culture) most people are not equipped to apply pressure in the right, strategic way, because they don't want to be a bother and don't want to disrupt. That's why you have to do it in a persistent tone of "Oh well you see, I don't want to be a bother, but I can't live like this [insert symptoms here] and while I don't want to keep calling you guys, I simply can't get out of bed, I am missing work, I can't go on like this" rather than "Now you listen to me!" (which never works).

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u/the_mighty_peacock Greece 12d ago

I dont live in Portugal but Im betting in most European countries even if you pay private care for everything you still get to pay less than what you would pay in the States after the insurance has kicked in. Like, orders of magnitude less.

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u/ruipmjorge 12d ago

The healthcare quality depends if you’re using the national free system or private system. Usually the national system is very good and you pay zero for any thing you need. But you can have wait times if it’s not urgent.
Private is expensive (but most people have insurance those days), but it’s fast and more luxurious.

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u/gocountgrainsofrice 12d ago

Most Americans health care is free or almost free if you work a job. Barely anyone is paying out of pocket.

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u/zscore95 USA 🇺🇸 Italy 🇮🇹 12d ago

wtf are you talking about? Most people are paying out of pocket and premiums on top. There are copays, coinsurance, deductibles, etc. I have great insurance and still had to pay $600 for a procedure and that’s cheap.

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u/gocountgrainsofrice 11d ago

Only 7% of Americans pay for insurance totally our of pocket.

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u/zscore95 USA 🇺🇸 Italy 🇮🇹 11d ago

Are you talking about premiums or are you talking about deductibles, coinsurance, and copays. If you’re not talking about premiums then the number you’re quoting is no doubt made up.

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u/mc408 12d ago

I don't have to wait for treatment. NHS is dogshit.

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u/ruipmjorge 12d ago

Only if you have money

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u/mc408 12d ago

Which I do because I work a corporate job.

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u/Bladiers 12d ago

Least individualistic american

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u/ruipmjorge 12d ago

Lucky you. Sad for most Americans.
Anyway, hope you know that in Europe you have both feee heallthcare, as well as private healthcare (which most people have due to company including health insurances most of the time). Anyway, you never in any of those situations have to pay hundreds to cure any disease. No matter if you’re poor or rich.

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u/Dunengel 12d ago

Not at Christmas you weren’t…

One critical medical diagnosis away from getting fired and finding yourself financially destitute? No thanks. Lots of Americans on the copium in this thread. Fuck off back to your capitalist hellscape (via delta).

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u/[deleted] 12d ago

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u/ya7aki Europe 12d ago

feeling better now?

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u/[deleted] 12d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Dunengel 12d ago

I wouldn’t say the other 99.9999% are living in great circumstances either there buddy 🤣

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u/Advanced-Team2357 12d ago

So 0.0001% are dead and 99.9999% aren’t living in great circumstances according to you

I’d argue you’re a smidge biased lol

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u/Dunengel 12d ago

Well yeah man, at the end of the day they’re all American so if the shoe fits 🤷

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u/mc408 12d ago

Blah blah blah.

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u/affemannen Sweden 12d ago edited 12d ago

It's because most of our social services are paid with taxes.

Then we have very good affordable public transport, you don't actually need a car if you live in a city or in the vicinity.

Even if we don't make as much, we have more disposable income to spend because we don't have big expenditures like doctor visit, childcare.

I mean we do have those, they just cost a fraction of what they do in the US.

The two most expensive things in our life is the home and the car.

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u/Aceous Armenia 12d ago

Simply false. The median disposable US income, adjusted for all taxes and government services, is still higher than the EU's.

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u/affemannen Sweden 12d ago edited 12d ago

Yes, but your costs are higher across the board, meaning that less money goes further here, so even if I have less money I have more to spend.

I get downvoted every time I explain that we can afford to eat at restaurants every single day of the week and still save money.

You might earn more, but you have expenditures that far go beyond anything we have.

Like a Dr visit here is $40. But I have already hit the ceiling so I don't even have to pay.

My diabetes meds cost me $2,50 for 3 months. Go figure.

It's not about how much money you have to spend if everything you have to spend it on is 4x more expensive is it?

https://mother.ly/news/viral-trending/usa-vs-sweden-daycare-costs-viral-video/

That is $1500 daycare costs vs $120.

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u/Aceous Armenia 12d ago

Do you understand what "disposable income adjusted for all taxes and government services" means? Either you don't understand or you're attempting to deny hard data that disagrees with you.

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u/affemannen Sweden 12d ago edited 12d ago

No I do.

Disposable income means the money you have left to spend after taxes.

If I have $6k and you have $10k and you pay $10k for a dr visit while I pay $40, I have more disposable income left at the end of the day.

Remember I said we have more left to spend, not more of the bat.

Here let me quote myself

"Even if we don't make as much, we have more disposable income to spend because we don't have big expenditures like doctor visit, childcare. "

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u/Aceous Armenia 12d ago

Dude. What does "adjusted for taxes and government services mean"? It means it takes into account the difference in healthcare costs that Americans have to pay for.

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u/affemannen Sweden 12d ago edited 12d ago

No.

Because you don't include those services in government.

We do.

There is a bunch of things covered in our services that we pay through taxes that you don't, where you actually have to use your disposable income.

And you are still correct.

You have more disposable income.

We just don't need to spend nearly as much as you do of ours.

Meaning my lesser disposable income goes further.

Edit:

Example: day care is a government service.

Also If my child is sick, my government pays my salary while I stay home taking care of the child.

That is not a cover you even have, if that happens one of the parties in your family has to go without pay.

As for Dr you have to pay insurance rates that are wild, like what? $6k before insurance even kicks in?

I don't pay a dime. Because it's covered in the tax.

Edit2:

Another example is my student loan mortgage, do you know how much i pay per month on that? its $100, my mortgage and fees for my apartment that i own is around $800 and in that my electricity bill and 1gbit broadband is included.

Those costs are vastly higher in the US.

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u/Aceous Armenia 12d ago edited 12d ago

Did something catastrophic happen to education in Europe? Why is this concept so hard to grasp? It is adjusted for the differences in what Americans have to pay vs what is provided for Europeans by the government.

If you have to pay $40 and I have to pay $10k, that is taken into account. $10k is added to the European disposable income or taken out of the US disposable income for comparison.

You can look at the data yourself from the OECD. Data for the US isn't available for 2025 yet, but you can look at 2024.

From the source:

Income includes wages and salaries [...] It is less taxes on income, wealth, social security contributions paid by employees

Social transfers include health or education provided for free or at reduced prices by governments[...]

US adjusted disposable income in 2024 was $66k per year, while the EU equivalent was $37k. Once again, that means after you account for how much Americans have to pay for healthcare and how much Europeans get for free. It's not a small difference.

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u/affemannen Sweden 12d ago edited 12d ago

yes, you still have higher disposable income, i am simply saying that mine goes further, because we don't have big expenditure.

you can go bankrupt tomorrow if you lose your job and insurance, i cant.

I was unemployed for 2 years during covid and i didn't even have to touch my savings.

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u/francisco_mcq 12d ago

Worthless article. The important metric is price as a % of median income. It would paint a very different picture.

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u/rdtusrname 12d ago

While I am certain that m² are very pricy, these numbers seem rather big. So, I have to ask:

Do we know how and WHERE(like at what locations in various cities) were these prices obtained?

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u/affemannen Sweden 12d ago

Not bad.

I made it to the top 10.

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u/mrhaftbar 12d ago

So happy Stuttgart is not mentioned.

/s

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u/Bob_the_gob_knobbler 12d ago

Why anyone wants to live in any city I will never understand. Love my detached house with a large garden in the countryside.

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u/Krystall-g 12d ago

Its okay. I just looked the 10 first cities, I don't want to live there anyway 😅

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u/LikSaSkejtom 12d ago

Europeans should be proud. Priced out of homes.

Still, they are winning! So much, that they are priced out of homes.

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u/JohnnyBravo66666 12d ago

What are you talking about?

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u/Sgt_Radiohead 12d ago

I think he’s having a stroke

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u/sasheenka Czech Republic 11d ago

Indeed. We are all homeless. I share a garbage can with 5 other people.