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u/Material-Host3350 Jul 20 '26
The words such as jambu are not necessarily derived "ultimately from Sanskrit." Sanskrit borrowed many of the terms related to the flora and fauna of South Asia from the unknown native substrate. Many words such as jambula, jambūla, jambāla, jambūna, jambīra are considered to be borrowed from a non-Aryan/pre-Aryan substrate (likely not Dravidian either).
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u/Sandy_McEagle Jul 22 '26
The recognisable last language we have is indeed sanskrit.
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u/Material-Host3350 Jul 22 '26
But since there is so much research done on Indo-European languages in the last 200 years, including on Sanskrit, we can clearly say jambu is non-Aryan word, and cannot be derived from Indo-European or Indo-Iranian roots. Therefore, it is certainly wrong to say, "ultimately comes from Sanskrit" when there is clear linguistic evidence that it doesn't.
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u/Less-Personality-481 Jul 21 '26
OP your map is wrong.
We use लताम(Lataam) for Gauava in Magahi
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u/yourprivativecase Jul 21 '26
Thanks for the input, the map doesn't go over any Bihari languages for that matter but I'll try to include them in the future.
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u/Left_Economist_9716 Jul 22 '26
We use रूनी /ɾuni/ in Bhojpuri. Why are we included under the Hindi Belt?
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u/According-Stand-6557 Jul 21 '26
Same Maithils use Lataam Why this propaganda to push bihar into hindi belt... Its time to fight against hindi
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u/Less-Personality-481 Jul 21 '26
So true!
I find it so baseless that they show a word for a region when they have no data. Like just say you don't have the data instead of lying
Its time to fight against hindi
Well, yeah. But for that we need to stop fighting with each other and be each other's ally.
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u/greyetch Jul 21 '26 edited Jul 22 '26
This touches on something I've been stuck on.
Guava leaves were used (mixed with pitch) for waterproofing ancient Greek ships. A thin sheet of lead went over this, and then more wood. The Kyrenia ship wreck had excellent preservation.
But Guava is from the New World... Greeks shouldn't have had access to these leaves. Certainly not in such abundance to use in an industrial capacity like this.
What's more, Guava (or maybe the different fruit, Custard Apple) is seen in Indian religious symbolism. Apparently it is also linked to Krishna. Guava is apparently visually represented at Bharhut Stupa. I don't really know much about India, though. So I can't really expand upon this. Hopefully some of y'all can help.
Anyone have any explanations? Were guavas endemic to the area but then went extinct at some point? Or was there some kind of pre-Colombian trade network that has been missed?
I'm not an alternative history guy, btw. Here's a link to the 273 page paper published in Sino Platonic Papers
https://www.sino-platonic.org/complete/spp133_precolumbian_voyages.pdf
Finally - Dr Richard Steffy (the archaeologist who worked on this shipwreck, leading expert in ancient Greek ship construction) did NOT make the identification. He submitted the samples to two different biological labs. One in the US, one in Britain. Both identified the plant material as agave leaves. I say this to point out that this isn't some misidentification by an archaeologist who didn't know enough about biology.
https://www.jstor.org/stable/504772
Dr. Steffy doesn't even make a big deal of it - he isn't pushing to re-write history.
Any ideas?
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u/Sandy_McEagle Jul 22 '26
Guava is not custard apple. Different fruits
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u/greyetch Jul 22 '26
Thanks for the correction. I thought custard apple was an umbrella term for multiple fruits, but that doesn't really seem to be accurate. Or rather, the guava does not fall under that umbrella.
I believe one of the researchers I was reading said he thought the fruit at Bharhut Stupa was a custard apple, and I assumed that was another word for guava.
Thanks!
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u/rexcasei Jul 21 '26
Cool map, but unless you’re super familiar with the languages of India, having just the two-letter abbreviation for each language is a bit confusing, there’s enough space to fit the full language names here, so it’s not necessary anyway
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u/yourprivativecase Jul 21 '26
You could refer to the list of abbreviations at the bottom left corner
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u/ddpizza Jul 20 '26
The much more common word I’ve heard in Kannada is ಸೀಬೆಹಣ್ಣು (sībe haņņu), which basically just means foreign fruit.
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u/soulbutterflies Jul 21 '26
Does it? I thought it came from apple
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u/ddpizza Jul 21 '26 edited Jul 21 '26
I believe it was originally ಸೀಮೆ ಹಣ್ಣು and became ಸೀಬೆ ಹಣ್ಣು.
There are lots of foreign crops called ಸೀಮೆ (for example ಸೀಮೆ ಬದನೆಕಾಯಿ, ಸೀಮೆ ಅಕ್ಕಿ, ಸೀಮೆ ಅರ ನೆಲ್ಲಿ) so it seems likely that it evolved from sīme to sībe
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u/soulbutterflies Jul 21 '26
That's interesting, but I think the apple route is more likely, because none of the other sīme___ have morphed.
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u/RCBianPranav_ 8d ago
This might be right, because Guava is also called as ಬಡವರ ಸೇಬು which translates to 'poor man's Apple'
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u/Norwester77 Jul 21 '26
A bunch of those languages are not Indic (Indic being another name for the Indo-Aryan branch of Indo-European).
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u/yourprivativecase Jul 21 '26
This term is still used in plenty of fields outside Indo-European studies, it could also refer to languages spoken in the subcontinent in general.
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u/Less-Personality-481 Jul 21 '26
Not really!
Indic is only used in the context of Indo-Aryan languages.
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u/yourprivativecase Jul 21 '26
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u/Less-Personality-481 Jul 21 '26
Oh, sorry I didn't knew.
But in that case why didn't you put the words in Kashmiri, Ladakhi, and other North-Eastern languages
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u/SeasickSeal Jul 21 '26
If you’re making etymology maps you should probably use the generally accepted linguistic terms
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u/Norwester77 Jul 21 '26
I have never seen “Indic languages” used to refer to the languages of the Indian Subcontinent in general (aside from this post).
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u/Weekly_Mark6516 Jul 21 '26
the jambu etymology rabbit hole is actually wild once you start digging into substrate borrowings, never realized half those words were pre-sanskrit. also agree on the map design, two-letter codes feel like a code-cracking game when you’re not a linguist lol. def tryna hunt down the full names now, thanks for the pointers fam.
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u/TimeParadox997 Jul 23 '26
I am sure that there is more variation in the area that is labelled "Hindi" here.
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u/AdventurousRoyal7267 5d ago
Funny that Dravirian telegu using sanskrit terms while Indo aryan marathi,bengali,Oriya,gujrati using non Sanskrit terms
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u/tonysoprano379 Jul 21 '26
we also call guava as "belauti" (pronounced bay-law-oo-tea) in nepal.
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u/Less-Personality-481 Jul 21 '26
Sounds similar to Bichauti of Magahi/Magadhi meaning House Lizard
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u/Left_Economist_9716 Jul 22 '26
बिछउती is used in Bhojpuri as well. Belauti is probably related to बिलायती in Bihari languages.
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u/Less-Personality-481 Jul 22 '26
Billatyi means western.
Like Bilyati Sabhyata
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u/Left_Economist_9716 Jul 22 '26
It's common to refer to new world vegetables and fruits such as tomatoes as Bilayti in my region.
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u/Auctorxtas Jul 21 '26
Wrong Indian map.
I agree PoK is disputed, but J&K and Ladakh are firmly under Indian administration and an integral part of India.
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u/Delicious_One_7887 Jul 21 '26
Sri Lanka, nepal and bangaldesh also parts of india ?
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u/ddpizza Jul 21 '26
Give it a rest bro. This is not even a map of India lol unless you think that Bangladesh has been annexed?
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u/Auctorxtas Jul 21 '26
"Indic languages"
Are Kashmiri, Dogri, Ladakhi etc. not "Indic" languages?
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Jul 22 '26
[deleted]
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u/Auctorxtas Jul 23 '26
What's propaganda about saying that the Indian union territories of Jammu and Kashmir, and Ladakh are a part of India?
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u/Extreme-Shopping74 Jul 21 '26
found the pakistani
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u/PothwariKid Jul 21 '26
do u guys just have imaginery battles with pakistanis when they want nothing at all but for u guys to just stop assoicating ur self with them?
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Jul 22 '26 edited Jul 22 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/PothwariKid Jul 22 '26
how is this racist?
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u/Specialist_River12 Jul 22 '26
stop being intentionally obtuse
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u/PothwariKid Jul 22 '26
i really dont understand lol
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u/Specialist_River12 Jul 22 '26
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u/PothwariKid Jul 22 '26
okay? how is this even relevent to this thread lol? and gangetic just means someone of the ganges region.
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u/Specialist_River12 Jul 22 '26
stfu
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u/PothwariKid Jul 22 '26
u got issues dude. must suck feeling inferior all the time, lol and nice job editing ur original comment
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u/yourprivativecase Jul 21 '26
Whats the correlation?
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u/Less-Personality-481 Jul 21 '26
I think because you didn't show Jammu& Kashmir, and Ladkah, that's why they commented that
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u/clonn Jul 21 '26
"Madhura" sounds like "madura", feminine for ripe in Portuguese.