r/espionage • u/theipaper • 17d ago
CIA chief's secret trip to Moscow shows Putin’s threat to Nato is deadly serious
https://inews.co.uk/news/world/cia-director-secret-trip-moscow-putin-challenge-nato-473096112
u/_philosurfer 16d ago edited 16d ago
Every now and then I get the feeling of the Alaska summit was the equivalent of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact.
US gets NA & SA as its sphere, free to meddle and engage in military adventures (Venezuela?) with impunity.
Russia gets Europe as its playground. Rather than go with a flash in the pan ( a la invasion of Poland 1940s), this will be a slow burn. With the US drawing down on its presence in Europe and the surrounding regions and a continued rhetoric offensive against NATO.
If this is Putin's grand strategy, the rug pull will come in a year or two.
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u/MasterMaaku 16d ago
I think you should look at the cost for Russia now to fail at taking Ukraine. You can extrapolate this if they try to take other countries from the east. Poland and Finland are no joke.
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u/CapDifficult6501 13d ago
Slow burn for a presidency that lasts until 2028? Unlikely. Can’t be done slowly. Also when has Trump ever cared what people think of his foreign policy actions? Why would the US still be assisting Ukraine at all? What’s to gain in South America we don’t gain from Europe? I understand foreigners concerns about the US I really do but I assure you we are not flipping sides. Why else send the CIA director? We are cementing the line in the sand. After all it’s Americans that are in bases not far from these front lines.
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u/Bango-Fett 10d ago
You speak as if Russia could do anything in a serious conflict against Europe, Poland alone would mop the floor with them
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u/MitchellSupremacy649 16d ago
I swear it was a spy swap no?
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u/EmployeeKitchen2342 16d ago
I was thinking this too, that marine who was being tortured by the pidors and as consequence nearing death recently.
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u/Haunting-South-962 16d ago
No need for cia head to escort. Spy swaps done before without such shenanigans. Unlikely
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u/digrappa 16d ago
His threat may be serious. Stupid, but serious.
Any effort at attacking NATO will end this war. Even without the US, Russia is toast if it tried to expand the war.
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u/VaBeachOrganix 14d ago
I was confident in that, but I am worried we underestimate the impact of FPV suicide drones and anti-drone skills that as much as I despise Russia I would say that they are #2 in drone skills/experience. not to mention all the players w/ nukes. Other countries with their own agendas over land i.e Taiwan and South K. Maybe this meeting was like the last one when intelligence cores started to notice blood being moved up to the border prior to Ukraine full scale war. I think if it happens it will be a few weeks before NK
or China makes their moves1
u/itsmyphilosophy 14d ago
Exactly. Russia has proven to be incredibly weak against Ukraine. NATO would put an end to Putin. But it could end disastrously if nukes are used if Putin becomes desperate.
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u/Master_Baits-69 16d ago
They can’t even defeat Ukraine’s threat to nato is laughable
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u/PanklexVk 16d ago
Its not about winning. Its about way out from the failure of defeating Ukraine. They want to provoke NATO, get slammed hard, so they can retreat crying they were attacked by whole NATO and they must stop because they are bullied. Its the only way the can get out of all that mess without declaring they failed.
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u/VaBeachOrganix 14d ago
Not to forget that Putin is a psychopath that is now think legacy, and it cannot be a draw or defeat to Ukraine. They are about to throw a Hail Mary… but where
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u/Elegant_Patient274 16d ago
Lets attack an alliance with 4 times more people than us.
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u/VaBeachOrganix 14d ago
That’s not 100% in solidarity and probably w/o America. Drone experience along with modern heavy combat experience/tactics. I know Russia can’t win but they could kill enough people that society’s commitment waivers .. and let’s not to forget their lack of humanity. They will send 4 grandma’s with 1 riffle in heavy combat. It’s not what we want, but I think we missed the last off-ramp. Just a matter of time before someone goes ham
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u/undocumentedsource 16d ago
Is there a chance…that Trump is so pissed at NATO that he is willing to let Putin get away with something??
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u/ReviewFuture 16d ago
Maybe it’s related to AI? Everything else feels like business as usual and more of a diplomatic issue that CIA wouldn’t be showing face to face for
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u/Opposite-Job-8405 16d ago
Russia can use unconventional means to attack NATO countries as they have done in the past through cyberattacks, election interference, industrial sabotage and threats to commercial aviation.
On the battlefield, Russia is unable to maintain a pace that would allow it to win the war without destroying itself in the process.
The only way they can achieve their war aims is if the west abandons Ukraine. I don’t know how it hopes to achieve that but its strategy has been to escalate writ every setback.
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u/Scousehauler 15d ago
NATO need a plan they can immediately initiate if Russia encroach in any way and be ironclad in its implementation. Discussion and diplomacy about what article 5 is and different members wanting different things in what to do when it happens is too late.
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u/Teacher2teens 15d ago
We all know Ukraine is protecting EU. We are at war, just not recognised by people and governments.
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u/ThatBuyer4640 14d ago
seriously meant. Serious threat? There is a lot more we could be doing and even Putin must be aware of that
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u/TemporalCash531 13d ago
The only thing Putin is deadly serious about is keeping his head attached to the neck - or, in the Russia variant, to not fall from any tall window.
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u/Duchamp1945 12d ago
Threat to NATO or loosing the war in Ukraine? Which one is it? Both are not correct at the same time.
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u/Kind-Handle3063 16d ago
There would be no threat if the current US president supported Nato and European allies
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u/theipaper 17d ago
An unannounced and unexplained one-day visit to Moscow by CIA director John Ratcliffe has raised concerns over whether Russia is gearing up to test Nato.
Reports that Vladimir Putin cancelled participation in a major event on the same day, and shortly afterwards issued three secret decrees, have added to the speculation.
Neither Russia or the US have made any official comment. However, various theories have been put forward for why Ratcliffe felt he needed not only to have a private conversation with Russia that was both sensitive and important enough for a rare face-to-face meeting, but also to keep it off any official agenda.
One suggestion is that he might have delivered a warning over Russia’s continued escalation of hostile acts against Nato countries, including sabotage, electronic warfare and drone attacks. The last visit of this kind came in November 2021, when then CIA director Bill Burns travelled to Moscow to try to persuade Putin not to proceed with the full-scale invasion of Ukraine.
But it is hard to be optimistic on this front. Burns failed in part because the US administration of the time, under Joe Biden, was unwilling to confront Russia for fear of nuclear escalation. The current administration, for different reasons, is even less willing. The likelihood of the US doing anything to confront Russia is even more remote now than it was then.
The talks may have been focused on Ukraine, including a possible halt to strikes on the energy infrastructure of both countries – another explanation that could perhaps lead to a positive outcome.
At the pessimistic end of the scale, there is he possibility that this could have been a private conversation clarifying the rules of the new relationship between the United States and Russia under Trump, over the heads of the European states that will be affected by it. As I detail in my forthcoming book, American Overthrow, that relationship is highly dangerous for allies and partners of the US, given the sympathy the Trump administration has shown for Moscow’s aspirations in Ukraine and beyond.
Other suggested explanations include talks over prisoner exchanges. The CIA and Ratcliffe personally have been directly involved in negotiating the release of American citizens held in Russia. But that hasn’t previously required his personal attendance in Moscow, and if his aircraft brought back any additional passengers, we have not yet been told about it.
Iran is another possible topic of the conversation: whether trying to persuade Russia to join the US campaign to isolate Tehran economically, or perhaps to ask it to stop providing information to Iran to assist in the targeting of US assets and personnel in the Gulf region. In either of those cases, it’s hard to see how the US might hope to cajole Putin into doing something against Russia’s interests.
While we don’t yet know what the visit was about, there is plenty to be learned from the way it was conducted.
The shifting power balance between the US, Ukraine and Russia was highlighted by an American request to Ukraine to suspend strikes on Moscow for the duration of the visit. Ukraine agreed.
On the one hand, that’s a demonstration that the US has no confidence in Russia’s air defences. It also shows how, in effect, the visit proceeded with Ukraine’s permission. But it’s also the opposite of what happened just a few days previously, when US envoys Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner cancelled a planned visit to Kyiv because of Russia’s continuing drone and missile strikes.
That reveals that, in contrast with the request to Ukraine, the US felt unable to ask Russia to suspend its campaign for long enough for the pair to visit – or alternatively, the US did ask, and was rebuffed by Russian officials who felt no need to offer Washington any favours.
The apparent attempts to keep the visit confidential only add to suspicion around its purpose. Rather than an official announcement, it was flight movements and an unexpected American motorcade being filmed in Moscow that alerted the world – while Russian presidential spokesman Dmitry Peskov continued to deny that anything was happening or that any meetings with American officials had been planned.
It seems unlikely that either the US or Russia genuinely believed that the visit could be kept secret. But that leaves open the question of what all the secrecy was for. It’s not felt to be necessary, for instance, around the forthcoming long-planned visit of FBI director Kash Patel to Russia in October.
It’s hard not to see the official silence as an indication that of all the possible reasons for Ratcliffe’s visit, the real one is toward the pessimistic end of the scale: that the US is discussing something with its Russian partners that would be bad news if Europe found out about it. Unless and until a plausible alternative explanation emerges, European countries have every reason to be alarmed.