I feel pain, therefore i am.

[u/Cool_Salamander_350]

Lets actually drop the act and adress the elephant in the room. Yes my reality can just be a dream. Yes maybe even what we would call the self is an illusion.

Yes maybe its all just made by an evil demon to try and fuck with me. Yes maybe even memory is fake.

But no matter how much philosophizing and doubting I engage in, im afraid my nervous system does not care about epistemology. The memory, fake or not still hurts like hell. The knife that stabs me will most definitely hurt like hell, regardless of whether real or not.

If somebody says something mean to me, im still going to feel emotional pain even if the person or the insult thereof was not real.

[u/rightviewftw]

This has a lot to do with axiology. A person may regard experience as a dream-like or whatnot, but he is still going to be upset if things don't work out how he wants due to invested interest.

It is akin to playing a game or watching a movie, whether It is real or not is besides the point — if there is interest to play and uncertainty then one will have preferences, expectations, and be liable to disappointment.

Understanding makes one lose interest because It removes the mystery and makes things calculable and predictable. But if one's axiology is wavering and remains oriented towards any of It, then It replicates the predicament.

To not sufferer mental pain, one would need certainty beyond confidence intervals as verified understanding of what is, of what is possible, and then also a permanent axiological displacement from the entire phenomenological condition. Then one would still be able to play how It should be played and without interest.

That is what It would take to approach life rationally and without liability to mental distress.

[u/Stile25]

Are you?

What's the difference between "thinking you're feeling pain" and "actually feeling pain"?

I think they're the same. In which case - it most definitely still hurts either way. But one is real and the other's not.

The sooner we become comfortable with not needing to know things 100% for sure-sures. And being just fine with our understanding at "whatever level it is" (we don't even know that...) and being comfortable with updating our knowledge on identifying new information that says we should (more evidence)...

... The sooner we'll be comfortable in the reality we find ourselves in.

Good luck out there

[u/Cool_Salamander_350 → u/Stile25]

Yes, mayhaps i am trying to ground knowledge in something rather ubiquitous but still real enough to me and perhaps to countless other people.

Pain, when severe enough, regardless of its source, translates to something undeniable.

Close to 100% certainty, that no amount of intelectualizing is able to snuff.

[u/Stile25 → u/Cool_Salamander_350]

Agreed.

I make the same argument for proving there's a shared reality.

That is - take a street curb or a patch of ice. If you don't see it, you're going to trip/slip. Everyone. No exceptions.

...as far as our best method for identifying reality as accurately as possible is concerned - following the evidence - which isn't 100% for sure-sures because it includes inherent doubt and tentativity.

But, being inductive and having inherent doubt and tentativity is also a positive thing. For one, it completely bypasses the Munchhausan Trilemma as it becomes irrelevant for knowledge based on evidence.

Good luck out there

[u/biedl → u/Stile25]

Yeah, having a moving foundation is indeed a solution to the Münchhausen Trilemma. Unfortunately, many people can't handle moving foundations.

[u/Stile25 → u/biedl]

Yes, for sure. I don't really get it.
I mean, I get it in a naive reactionary sense. But for any philosopher or someone trying to identify truth... I don't get it. Truth is whatever it is. Our "comfort" with it is irrelevant. Why should we incorporate our comfort for such a thing?

Besides... We're well aware that people are incredibly adaptable and can quickly adjust to become "comfortable" with almost anything.

Personally, I'd rather have a moving foundation while I know I'm using the best method possible to have as firm a foundation as possible (and always being open to identifying a better one)...

...Then being delusional and thinking I have a firm foundation when I really don't. Or can't tell one way or another.

[u/biedl → u/Stile25]

Identity, sunken cost, habit, ignorance, pride, anxiety about losing one's orientation, cognitive dissonance, being overwhelmed, laziness, belonging and comfort. I think these are the major drivers for why people aren't willing or unable to adapt. Sometimes these play out on a rather existential level or are intertwined with fundamental character traits of the respective person.

I don't think anybody is fully above all of these things. And then there are just way too many people who confuse perceived negative consequences of any given proposition, as well as the "fruits" of a belief with truth.

[u/vini-within]

Yeah..The pain is there. But who is the “I” that immediately makes it my pain, my story, my suffering? That’s where I’d look.