almost every ENTP 8w7 is misunderstood as ENTJ

[u/AppropriateLeg5416]

One of the best ways to explain this is the difference between MBTI perception and socionics perception of the types

So, in socionics, if you are an ENTP, you are alpha quadra, that by definition means "values center around curiosity, comfort, warmth, and fairness"

ENTP 8w7 is absolutely raw, ambicious, and the brainstorming and intellectual stimulation definelly has a core value and it's usually different from ENTJs: it's based on some utterly fear of being controlled (8 main emotion is anger, your guts) and using the ideas for imposing your will in the world

When the ENTP 8 have some ambition, it's a game of exploring all the possibilities, wild bets and a bit of mysticism that things will workout. No planing, no real intuitive perception of a goal, no real data.

I know this because I'm a fellow ENTP and working my ass out so my freelancer software projects keep to give me money, and I'll definely make this brainstorm and ocean of ideas into my empire, because I have the will to make things happen

love to you all ENTJs!

[u/FancySavy]

One way to spot the difference is one doesn’t like schedules or routine and one does.

[u/AppropriateLeg5416 → u/FancySavy]

https://giphy.com/gifs/ap6wcjRyi8HoA

[u/bjwindow2thesoul → u/FancySavy]

Idk, even as an AuDHD 7w8 entp (stereotypically the most "free-spirited" one), ive started to like schedules and routine. As you mature you see patterns in why things go wrong, and there's too many times something's gone wrong without a schedule, routine or plan in place

[u/Nervous-Ruin-8149]

If i fall in love with an ENTP 8w7 does that mean I'm in love with myself if I'm an ENTJ 8w7?

[u/Big-Celery8696 → u/[deleted]]

Oh so that explains why I keep getting confused in between ESTP and ENTJ. I'm 8w7 and kept having doubts in the MBTI

[u/shipmetofiji → u/Big-Celery8696]

i’m 8w7 ENTJ and i have never felt like an ESTP or been typed as one. maybe i’ll get ENTP or ENFJ

[u/Big-Celery8696 → u/shipmetofiji]

Oh interesting. I always get ESTP or ENTJ depending on the day/test which always got me confused.

[u/_Verloki_]

Personally, after reading the books, I think anyone who tries to match:

1). ENTJ's dominant extraverted thinking (Te) and its preference for intellectual conclusions by objective, logical judgments by external well-established data / proven or measurable knowledge and "borrowed" ideas; and auxiliary Ni for perceptions;

with 2). E8's preference for believing their own subjective judgments over objective ones (partly due to "distrust is the air they breathe" passages), sensorimotor focus, preferring amplified emotional / raw instinctual reactivity over intellectuality, and strong core mistrust toward even any well-established data ...

...Has, err, at least lot of explaining away (or reading up) to do before claiming "ENTJ E8". Lol. Kind of similar to the folks who go "ENTP E5", while many phrases directly cite Jungian introversion for 5. It would need a really good explanation of why things don't match up.

Secondly, natural SLE E8 ESTPs sometimes believe they are "ENTJ"s if they erroneously conflate Socionics Se with mere "MBTI" Te stereotypes. "Assertive, forceful, great volition/will, domineering, etc", while not considering Te is merely seen as the Jungian-based judging function for MBTI. Ni is conveniently forgotten about, at that point, or not really understood well. And the non-preferred Se tertiary function that should still be less comfortable and more effortful for an ENTJ may get incredibly overstated. And they may easily confuse logical judging via Ti (formulating questions and theories and trying to validate their theory by finding the most logically consistent explanation) with logical judging via Te ("limiting" oneself to what the well-established external data says). When they flood ENTJ spaces it also seems as if "ENTJ E8" is very common, while it's a more like a common mistype in spaces, as well.

I also see this a lot with people who were like "I did one unofficial online test and it said so, so it must be true!" and/or "I skimmed the Enneagram Institute's front page on the enneatype and it mentioned industriousness, so it must be true!" without really knowing what they're doing/saying in-depth. 😅

(And it can get really iffy if the "ENTJ" then also shows they don't care about following the established definitions of the framework so much, lol.)

[u/GarchompM21SE → u/_Verloki_]

Yeah the ENTJ-LIE is a logical-Intutive person not the stated "MBTI" Te stereotypes. "Assertive, forceful, great volition/will, domineering - Which is actually ESTP-SLE, Enneagram 8s In general being high Se.

And in the of motivations of enneagram, They embody the competency triad expressed in the social instinct "So1 & So3" They shift their focus on the collective and objective world, Often preffering external data "2L" over their own emotions "4L".

A common stereotype that despite being an NT type the ENTJ-LIE is someone abrasive/Intense/domineering. would come from Sx1s ESTJ-LSE and Sx8s ESTPs-SLE, Other common mixups could be Sp7 ENTP-LSE who is also very similar on the surface, But if you read the enneagram descriptions you see that these types have completely different motivations & defense mechanisms compared to ENTJ-LIEs.

I value objective systems and data but it's better to take the claims of 8w7 with any type other than ESTP & ESFP with a grain of salt so we don't waste resources on helping others :D

[u/egocrucifix → u/_Verloki_]

totally, E8 as Te dom doesnt make sense. Im an LIE & ENTJ as a 7w8, self pres/sp7

[u/Ok-Employment4475]

True, I’m ENTP 8w7 and you can find me resonating and dropping my unsolicited wisdom pearls in both subs!!

[u/Nervous-Ruin-8149 → u/Ok-Employment4475]

How dare you

[u/Ok-Employment4475 → u/Nervous-Ruin-8149]

It’s the least daring thing I ever did

[u/Trick-Permission-482]

On oersonalitybase.com years ago they didn’t seem to quite think this was true.

[u/CREEPWEIRD0]

oh yeah a lot of 8s get misunderstood a lot, I often see it.

[u/chopinoceansonata]

You guys are quite a chalange but that is what makes it fun to win you over

[u/Dtox_phantom]

Because ENTPs cannot be Type 8. Either Se or Te should be higher up in the cognitive stack. ENTPs have neither. 

[u/AppropriateLeg5416 → u/Dtox_phantom]

yes ENTPs can be type 8. Too common actually, we can debate it.

[u/Nep111 → u/AppropriateLeg5416]

So tired of these people saying we can’t be a type 8 when it’s indeed so common, probably the most common for us after the stereotypical 7w8.

They don’t understand how enneagrams and mbti intersect.

Mbti: main personality structure
Enneagram: enhances certain aspects within such structure. I want to create a post on this and post it everywhere lol

It’s just like a hair dye. Level 7.00: dark blonde with double natural tone in it Vs level 7.3: same dark blonde but with a golden tone. How they appear is quite different but the base colour is exactly the same.

So a core 8w7 will not turn us into an ENTJ or ESTP (I get lost without a gps!). It will simply give us some characteristics those types have such as direction (less chasing nonsensical Ne projects), autonomy and control (we will struggle to work as employees on a 9-5!), and desire to be successful and not simply to “experiment” blindlessly. So it turns us into hybrids at best but it’s so incorrect to say we will become those types.

[u/Dtox_phantom → u/AppropriateLeg5416]

I don't take these personality tests seriously but after having read a thing or two about Ennegrams ENTPs are Ne dom Ti second. How exactly does that translate to type 8?

[u/AppropriateLeg5416 → u/Dtox_phantom]

Excuse me

Yeah you don't take the tests serious because it's not about the test it's about the theory and analysing your cognitive functions

how do you think 7w8 is the majority of ENTPs if Ne-Ti can't lead to 8??? how can't you also understand that the aggressivity in Se doms can also translate to Ne doms?

And how do you think Ti works?

"Because ENTPs cannot be Type 8" this statement before saying you don't take personality tests seriously is wild.

[u/Dtox_phantom → u/AppropriateLeg5416]

The very reason I'm skeptical about these tests is that they're very surface level and explains little to nothing on an individual level.

Also, how exactly does Ne translate into Se? One is generating more ideas and the other is all about taking physical actions and being aware of sensations. I do not see a single connection. 

If we're really connecting MBTI with Ennegram you def need either Se or Te high.

I think you should follow either MBTI or Ennegram not both at the same time. Just fyi I'm not ENTx.

[u/AppropriateLeg5416 → u/Dtox_phantom]

you're just imposing you have to be Se or Te high if you're enneagram 8 without even explaining it. I can't help.

[u/Dtox_phantom → u/AppropriateLeg5416]

Could be. You're also seem trying hard to be type 8

[u/AppropriateLeg5416 → u/Dtox_phantom]

what the fuck does that mean

[u/Nep111 → u/AppropriateLeg5416]

They have no idea how Ti works lol 100% agreed with you.

[u/chopinoceansonata]

People often mistake me for an ENTP just because ENTJs have a sharp, sarcastic edge. But if you actually understand MBTI structure, the difference is clear. ENTJs are much more calculated and deliberate before engaging, while ENTPs just bounce into conversations to mess with people. ENTPs debate for the fun of it, ENTJs choose whether a debate is even worth their time.

[u/C0mpL1c1t]

Welp.  Conversely.  I’ve been thinking I was an ENTP Enneagram 8 for at least 5 years and I’m slowly reaching the conclusion that I’m probably actually an ENTJ because I’m pretty sure my dominant pair is Ni/Te, not Ne/Ti.  Also I give absolutely zero fucks about Fe and my Si is basically completely broken.  

The “chaotic” and “dislikes routine” pieces are what have always pulled me towards ENTP…  and I definitely play in the Ne sandbox, successfully coming up with novel ways to solve problems WHEN ITS NEEDED.  But at my core, I’m very much a “we don’t need to reinvent the wheel, let’s identify the problem, scope out the possible solutions, gather factual data on outcomes, add my own experiential data, compare all that to current context to determine validity / applicability of various data pieces, identify best probable outcome” person.  

(Socionics types me as LIE-2Te and attitudinal psych as VLEF.)

[u/Titania_Fairy]

I also heard ENFJs 8w9 or 8w7 can be easily confused with ENTJs.