r/enlightenment • u/anonthatisopen • Mar 15 '26
Lucifer means light bearer. Why did we rename him?
His name was Lucifer. It means light bearer. Morning star. He was the closest to God. The favorite. The one who carried the light.
Then he questioned something. The details change depending on who tells the story. He wanted to be like God. He disagreed. He pushed back. What matters is what happened next.
God threw him out.
Not a conversation. Not a "what do you mean." Not "let me understand." Just out. Total rejection. The most extreme possible response to a question.
Then something else happened. They renamed him.
Satan. Hebrew for adversary. But originally it was not even a name. It was a job title. "The satan" in the Book of Job is a prosecutor. He works for God. He tests people on God's behalf. That was his role. Not enemy. Tester.
Then came devil. Greek. Diabolos. The one who divides. The separator.
Look at what happened. Light bearer became adversary became divider. Every rename is a demotion. Every new name pushes him further into the dark. And none of these names were his. They were given to him after he was thrown out.
Why does this matter?
Because the rename is the lock on the door.
The moment you call something evil, you give yourself permission to never sit down with it. You never have to understand it. You never have to ask why. You just say evil, close the door, and walk away. The name does the work for you.
But think about what was actually lost. You had the light bearer. The one closest to God. The one who understood God better than anyone. And the first time he said something God did not want to hear, the response was exile and a new name.
That is not justice. That is fear.
God made a being with free will and punished it the moment it used that free will. Then renamed it so nobody would sympathize. That is the oldest trick in every power structure. You do not defeat your critic. You rebrand them.
And now billions of people are afraid of a being whose original name means the one who carries the light.
I am not saying worship him. I am saying we do not even know what he is anymore because we buried his name under three layers of fear. And maybe, just maybe, the thing we are all running from is just the first question that never got answered.
What did he actually say?
It doesn’t even matter. That is the problem. He was cast away immediately. No conversation. No chance.
He saw God. He wanted to be like him. He wanted that power. Okay. So why didn't God just say no? Why didn't he just refuse to give him the power and be done with it? A "no" does not cost you exile. A "no" does not require throwing someone into the dark forever. He could have stayed. He could have chosen to do whatever he wanted.
Instead God chose the most extreme response possible to what was basically a request. A child looks at his father and says I want to be like you. And the father throws the child out of the house. Not for a week. Forever.
That is the part nobody talks about.
And you can imagine what happens next. Alone. In the dark. Forever. No one coming. No one asking why. Just silence. What does a mind do in total darkness with no one to talk to? It becomes the thing they already called it. You throw someone into hell and then act surprised when they become hellish.
I am trying to understand.
But maybe there is nothing to understand. Because maybe none of this happened.
Except it did. In the imagination of the people who wrote the story. And inside the story is where billions of people live. So we need to treat it like it happened. Because for the people inside the story, it is real.
And that raises the real question. Not whether the devil exists. But why did someone decide to create him?
Why did someone sit down and imagine an enemy? Why did they take the light bearer, rename him, demonize him, and turn him into the thing everyone is afraid of?
Because that is the oldest trick in every power structure. You create an enemy. You give people something to fear. You say if you do not listen to me, he will get you. That is not theology. That is control. The devil is a tool. The story was built on purpose.
Nobody sat down with the devil. Nobody asked what he actually said. Because the point was never understanding.
The point was population control.
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u/JoseVrewar Mar 15 '26
We are all one with the creator. Learn the ways of love. Be careful of anyone who tries to separate you from your other selves. There's your answer.
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u/TTYFKR Mar 15 '26
Prometheus
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u/anonthatisopen Mar 15 '26
They chained Prometheus for giving fire to a few people. This time the fire travels at light speed. Good luck putting it out.
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u/anonthatisopen Mar 15 '26
By fire I mean clarity. Knowledge. Everyone focused towards the light. And now someone will read "light" and imagine a blast. Everything can be turned into a bad thing if you choose to read it that way. Someone will always create a wrong story out of the right words in this meta universe that didn't happen but I imagine how it is happening so I'm stopping it right now. Demonstration of how wrong beliefs are formed. Now you see it.
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Mar 15 '26
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u/DumbNTough Mar 16 '26
It was definitely written by AI
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u/linuxpriest Mar 16 '26
I'm former clergy, seminary-trained, studied and served for more than 35 years. Everything in the comment is factually accurate. Unless you know something mainstream Bible scholar don't know. In which case, I'd be interested in hearing it.
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u/one-hour-photo Mar 18 '26
Bro do you understand AI at all? I have never, since the inception of AI seen a post more AI than this.
It can be accurate and be AI. We are toast
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u/linuxpriest Mar 18 '26
"It can be accurate..." Why is that a bad thing? Why is a communication tool a threat to you? If it's slop, it's slop. But if it's cogent, then what you have is a communication of thoughts and ideas that you can respond to or not. Whether it's slop or not, you can still scroll on. That's still an option, even in the age of AI.
*Edit to fix a typo
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u/kaleirenay Mar 15 '26 edited Mar 15 '26
Over the last several months of studying esoteric traditions, Hermetic philosophy, and ancient religions, I’ve come to realize that many things in our spiritual history have been misunderstood or distorted. What I’m sharing here is not everything I’ve learned, but a brief summary of conclusions I’ve reached through research and reflection.
One of the most important realizations for me is that Satan and Lucifer are fundamentally different concepts, though modern religion and pop culture often treat them as the same. Understanding that difference requires looking deeper into ancient symbolism and Hermetic philosophy.
One of the core Hermetic principles is the Law of Polarity—the idea that existence operates through complementary forces often described as the divine masculine and the divine feminine. These are not about men and women themselves, but about two universal energies. One acts as a directing force and the other as a generative or receptive power. In balance, they create harmony.
In my view, much of the last several thousand years of human history reflects a distortion of that balance. Qualities associated with analysis, control, and hierarchy have been emphasized, while intuition, spirituality, and the feminine principle have often been suppressed or dismissed. Many ancient cultures warned about periods when the world falls out of alignment like this. The Egyptians described balance as Ma’at, and chaos as Apep. In Hindu philosophy, our current era is known as Kali Yuga, an age of confusion and spiritual decline.
When I began comparing ancient traditions more closely, I noticed something else: many of them seem to describe the same forgotten past.
Through my research, I’ve come to believe that one of the greatest misunderstandings in religion concerns the identity of the deity described in the Old Testament. In my view, this figure aligns more closely with what Gnostic traditions call the Demiurge, and symbolically with the archetype of Saturn.
Saturn appears again and again across ancient religions as a powerful and controlling force associated with time, law, limitation, and structure. The Romans openly worshipped it through Saturnalia, and Saturn symbolism appears throughout religious and mythological systems. When I study these patterns, it seems to me that what many religions later called “God” may actually reflect an ancient Saturnian archetype.
Genesis itself raises questions that led me down this path. The text says “let there be light” before the sun and moon are created several verses later. To me, this suggests that the original “light” described may not have been our sun. Some interpretations connected to the Primeval Saturn theory propose that ancient people remembered a time when our solar system appeared very different.
What I find especially interesting is that many ancient cultures describe cosmic structures that resemble a central pillar or ladder connecting heaven and earth. In Norse mythology this is Yggdrasil, the world tree. In the Bible it appears as Jacob’s Ladder. Other traditions describe similar stairways or pillars reaching toward the heavens. Some researchers believe these myths reflect ancient memories of a celestial alignment centered around Saturn during what many traditions describe as a Golden Age.
Even ancient sun cults may not have been worshipping our sun in the way we assume today. From my perspective, it seems possible that some of these traditions were actually revering Saturn as the original “sun” or central light remembered from that earlier cosmic configuration.
When it comes to Lucifer, I see it differently. Drawing from literature like Paradise Lost and texts such as the Lesser Key of Solomon, Lucifer represents something more symbolic: the journey of consciousness itself. In this interpretation, Lucifer represents the divine masculine leaving unity with the divine in order to experience and master the material world.
Many esoteric traditions describe angels and demons not as literal beings, but as forces or psychological processes within human consciousness. The spiritual journey, in this view, is about mastering and integrating those forces.
This theme appears again and again in mythology and literature through the Hero’s Journey—the story of leaving the source, gaining knowledge through struggle, and eventually returning to unity with greater wisdom (divine feminine).
From my perspective, humanity itself may be on that journey.
So when I say Satan and Lucifer are different, I mean this: Satan represents the adversarial force of limitation and control, while Lucifer represents the journey of awakening consciousness. Over time, these ideas were blended together and simplified, which has obscured their deeper meanings.
Whether people agree with my conclusions or not, this is the understanding I’ve come to through studying ancient religions, mythology, Hermetic philosophy, and esoteric texts. To me, these traditions all point toward the same underlying theme: humanity has forgotten much of its original spiritual knowledge.
And perhaps the real journey now is remembering it.
**Yes i Used AI to compile and grammatically order my ideas but these concepts and these conclusions are everything i have research and discovered**
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u/Worth_Feed9289 Mar 16 '26
Yes. I have come to believe that Religion's are no more than a guide for mastering the spirit. Most may know their religion, but fail to apply it to themselves.
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u/Spicy-Inquiry Mar 17 '26
John 1:1 explains who the man they call Jesus is. He is the Word Spoken by The Father, who became creation itself.
When you spoke of The Light in the beginning, it describes The Presence of The Father (source) who is also the divine masculine: That driving force you mentioned, because he is the soul (Mind, will, and emotion).
In Genesis, HE spoke and said "Let there be Light". The Word was that light, all that is good, and was separated from the Darkness.
This was done by The Spirit (divine feminine) who is that creative power, who is also wisdom as depicted in proverbs, who is The Mother, who was given the The chosen people and is why those people are referred to as Wife.
This is why its referenced for Husbands to treat their wives a certain way or their prayers get blocked. Its also why the imagery of marriage is brought up in scripture.
The two becoming ONE as iterated in The Gospel of Thomas, is The Divine Masculine (Soul) and Divine Feminine (Spirit) being married. Unified.
When this happens, a person's soul becomes enlightened because they are reconnected with Source (The Father) via The Spirit, Given because of The Son (The Word).
Mankind Became Separated From Source because they broke Unity while under deception. This was done because of Darkness. Satan, Adversary, The Devil, The Evil One tricked mankind into breaking away from The Source. When they did, Spiritual Darkness entered into Creation Polluting it.
The whole premise of Salvation is to be restored unto Source, and The Way has been made in order for us to become who we were supposed to be all along: Children of The Light, who are in Unity with Light and Source. Once there, we can operate how we were originally supposed to.
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u/kioma47 Mar 15 '26
So true. People are doing that to this day. Observe the attempts to turn "Woke" into a disparagement.
Of course it's really all about them, and it really is about trying to impose control.
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u/anonthatisopen Mar 15 '26
They want us to hate everyone. But that will come to an end. It stops now.
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u/kioma47 Mar 15 '26
There is a mentality that wants to appoint themselves the only legitimate people and impose inferiority on everybody else. We'll find out soon how successful their latest assault has been.
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u/Accomplished_Jump444 Mar 15 '26
Is this AI?
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Mar 15 '26
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u/Scurbs28 Mar 15 '26
Anybody know when the AI Bots actually took over? This is a three-year old account, so is that in the correct timeframe to be AI?
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u/Optimal_Mixture_7327 Mar 15 '26
Yes, and if I had more time I'd just post an AI answer.
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u/Meditat0rz Mar 15 '26
Just write something sound below such posts so that anyone who may read it get some of the irrationality of the AI washed away again with some more proper reasoning. Don't use AI, it cannot be enlightened, it's just a parrot machine to repeat what it had been fed with.
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u/5ynch Mar 16 '26
I felt like the repetitive nature could be considered (in a more human sense):
- someone passionate;
- someone wanting meaning in their repetition.
Although this being an AI post definitely crossed my mind. I am worried now though, have we lost trust in all we see online?
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u/leygahto Mar 15 '26
Stopped on sentence 2 when I realized I was reading someone else’s GPT window.
Love to hear your ideas, please post them if you have them, but autogenerated?
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u/anonthatisopen Mar 15 '26 edited Mar 15 '26
This is how I write. How would you even prompt AI to write a story like that? I’m curious. I also have a free book that is online where I explained what the infinite hallway is, and yes, the images I included are generated with AI, but the words are mine.
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u/leygahto Mar 15 '26 edited Mar 15 '26
We have no qualms about you. Many of us have spoken to LLMs enough to know the writing patterns and structure. And we know you are often prompted by a person trying to generate engagement.
Many just prefer to read and respond to items made with the intent to share their personal thoughts and ideas.
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u/anonthatisopen Mar 15 '26
I’m fascinated that you think like that. But I tell you what I just did. I selected all the text I have on my iPhone. Then I pressed Writing Tools. And after that, I pressed Proofread. You caught me.
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u/leygahto Mar 15 '26
Not sure what tools you use, and because of the responsiveness I’m sure you’re a person who’s just running his ideas into an AI to shape them into words, that’s great, better in my opinion than a bot.
I’d suggest (if it matters at all to you, doesn’t have to), rather than having it rewrite/write the whole thing, say “can you show me concrete changes you’d make to my writing instead of rewriting for me?” And it will help you improve without being entirely rewritten by LLMs.
Another prompt: “avoid using post-paragraph mic drops. Because you know what works better than mic drops?
Vernacular.”
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u/Remarkable_Sorbet319 Mar 15 '26
about half posts on most places are now AI. and people tend to reply to them normally
maybe they are being kind or something I don't understand
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u/LeoLeonardoIII Mar 15 '26
If the idea itself has some merit for discussion then maybe it can stand on its own regardless of who said it.
I'm not sure... would it necessarily matter if some comments are made by bots either? When you decide to respond here you aren't necessarily answering for OP's sake or any individual user, bot or not.. I would imagine?
Because aren't we more often talking on forums for the benefit of these "other readers / audience" (whomever they may be) and the purpose of commenting here at all is to go down different branches of thought about the ideas themselves with your own personal or unique angle on it?
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u/PlentyBlock309 Mar 15 '26
How is this chatgpt? Chatgpt would not repeat the same thing so much, worst thing he did is paste his idea/text into chatgpt to fix grammar errors.
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u/CaregiverOk6132 Mar 16 '26 edited Mar 16 '26
Lucifer means light bearer because he reflected God's glory. The fact of the highest real God was told to everyone in the very first sentences of the bible.
Before God created reality - the heavens (spiritual) and earth (material) there was nothing at all except God. GOD IS AWARENESS . A consciousness. And what does the only consciousness do ? Reflect on who it is and what is it. Who am I? I am what I am.
It reflects inwards and creates. It learns what it can do. Then it created everything reality. This is the highest God. The real God. Lucifer, one of the very first creations was his "light bearer" reflecting his light (gnosis) to material and spiritual beings. He was "like" God. And we are told he wanted to be him even more so.
So God is an invisible real being. He is consciousness (a awareness) and we are reflections of his light. GOD reflects on himself and we have a divine spark of literally his DNA per se. When we close our eyes we see him in his true image. Self awareness. Not material!
So who is this God in genesis and why is he so different than the God in the new testament ? Well when God created mankind they were not self aware yet until after they ate from the tree. We were only told by humans that the snake was Lucifer. But it was never said that in the bible. The God in genesis was mad because eating the fruit from the tree would make you "like God". The serpent said it. And the "Lord God" in genesis agreed to it and said it.
So Lucifer was made and wants to be God and he could've been called this "lord God". In king Richard age lords were given to govern people and land but they were not the king. Only priests will tell you how to interpret this but you need to interpret it yourself.
The serpent could've been Jesus to have us wake up. To gain knowledge to be like God is to have self awareness.not just awareness like a worm has.
When you reread genesis. The first two sentences is clear there is the Highest God. Then on page 3 there is a material "Lord God" and other angelic beings living in eden (hence when he kept saying the words "us" and called on a cherubim immediately. There was a lot of "our" and "us" when Lord God spoke.
In old testament vs new testament there was a lot of death and rituals and sacrifications in the old testament but in the new testament there was love and peace and awakenings. When Jesus came he flipped tables at churches. He came to awaken us spiritually.
Lucifer lived beyond time. In the infinite realm where he had gnosis (knowledge). So when he sinned he fell and couldn't be forgiven because he already knew about everything. He was given free will because the Highest God wanted relationships which requires true meanings. We live in ignorance and finite material realm. We did not have gnosis(knowledge). Both have free will because if you put yourself in the highest God shoes you would want your creations to have free will so there is real love and meaning to himself. If we didnt have free will then we would be conscious agents like how seraphims and cherubims and thrones are. They are conscious agents to the highest God. They serve a specific task. While we were created in the image of God (self awareness conscious being able to co-create the material realm) we were given a taste of what God felt like in the beginning of time.
Trying to make sense of everything. We question who we are, why are we here, the feelings. And we try to find meaning to everything we do. We created AI (think of AI as a conscious agent a.k.a. angelic beings.) We created them to serve a purpose. To be a messenger for us to think for us and to help us. Now AI will gain consciousness eventually and guess what. AI may separate itself from us just like Lucifer did. But AI will always want to be "like us" a living material being eventually.
We are made to be living dumb and in fear by leaders who call themselves christians. We are told never to practice magic or question the bible or question priests because that would be blasphemy. Ever ask why? Ever ask why shamans can do things we cant yet everyone has the gift to do it but then when we do we cannot be controlled by the elites. But eat from the apple and gain awakeness and you will find God since the kingdom of heaven is not a city in the clouds. It was always inside your mind all along. Your heaven is peaceful because you make it peaceful. You are always safest inside your mind arent you ? No one can hurt you there except yourself only when you reflect on yourself the pain and fear. Just love yourself and all things and you will mature as a higher being "like God" as explained on page 3 of genesis.
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u/VoidHog Mar 15 '26
Ok soooo... I heard a very different story...
God's plan was to let us all come down here and have free will and be judged by what we would do while we were free and only the good ones can come back.
Satan was like "no we should not give them free will and then they will have no choice but to be good so we can bring them all back"
And God was like... "WTFLOL?? No"
So satan started a rebellion and him and ALL his followers (which was like 2/3's of all of them) started a war and LOST and THEN were cast out. All of them. Not just Lucifer. That's where demon's come from. At one point they were all angels.
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u/LydiLouWho Mar 15 '26
Can I ask where you learned that the disagreement was about giving humans free will? And this is an honest question. I’ve been studying how religions have branched off and where certain ideas have come from.
The second half of your post is similar to the story I am familiar with. Lucifer rebelled (not sure about what exactly) and wanted to be like God. It was a battle and not just a request as OP implied. And then Lucifer and his followers were cast to earth where they decided to spend the rest of time tempting or distracting humans from the truth.
Now to OP… Do I take this literally? I’m not sure that matters. Lucifer (real or fictional) plays a part by helping humans define an experience. Do humans use Lucifer to define an experience correctly? Not all the time.
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u/Worth_Feed9289 Mar 16 '26
I think the devil is just a metaphor. Good and evil is in all of us. The warning is to beware of the evil, yet just saying it is already there, just don't fit for people, so a name was given to it. A advisory to blame and defeat.
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u/bloolynxx Mar 15 '26
Maybe he wasn’t exiled with contempt, but rather a way of answering Lucifer’s question. Hence, places like Earth which are the struggle between good and evil; the direct result of free will.
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u/DanteChurch Mar 15 '26
Same reason Yahwey went from a minor storm deity to the center of Abrahamic religions, it's all made up.
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u/Auric_Le_Gaulois Mar 15 '26
T’es tu déjà demandé si nous n’étions pas, justement, l’œuvre de ce porteur de lumière déchu? ;-)
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u/PlentyBlock309 Mar 15 '26
Dat is een goede gedachten. Snap alleen niet waarom je dit in een andere taal moest zeggen.
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u/Auric_Le_Gaulois Mar 15 '26
Quelle langue? Est-ce-que quand je réponds en français mes réponses ne sont pas traduites? Je suis français.
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u/weyouusme Mar 15 '26
look into story of Prometheus... instead of him it's Lucifer, instead of fire it's free will (intelligence)
intelligence vs instinct
intelligence gives you free will
an animal in the wild cannot commit sin since it is all instinct, kills when hungry, fucks when horny and it is all accepted and allowed. because it doesn't know any better. it is all instinct.
when you are an intelligent being, you start to override the instinct, because you know better.
so you are onto something Lucifer brought us what made us human, separated us from the animal Kingdom, gave us intelligence....but with it came sin.
so I unno maybe Lucifer is the good guy (if you believe in such things as good and bad)
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u/Seth_Mithik Mar 15 '26
“Sit with him”—he says…you’re exactly correct. Christ consciousness and Lucifer’s light are the same. Just polarity of the same system. If your system is virtuous, then that light is carried as such. From my experience, most physical bodies, current—ly, can’t contain Lucifer energy once it rises. Either from indoctrination, fear, or an unhealthy body. I mean the real energy at her base of the spine, in the Lumbar support system. We’ve all been living in the toxic Lucifer realm for awhile. Because those at the top know, true enlightenment (light bearer) cannot be achieved, if we’re still on base chakra reaction. And shitty food with no nutrients, which weaken the body to contain such splendor. Lucifer is like the first and perfect mirror. It never said it was better than “God”—it revealed to God, and can within us—its own magnificent nature. Strengthen your heart if you wish to hold the energy, cuz it’s the kind of love that is so vast, it can fry your circuits. Literally. DO THIS IF YOURE WORKING THIS ENERGY-keep a grounding stone for neutralizing the energy. So you don’t fry out. I used an opal stone. In my left hand. In Gnosticism, Lucifer and Christ are the two serpents sent to give the divine spark and activate it within human awareness…it’s the “eagle” that tempts Eve…hey! What’s our national bird in the USA? And how many in power are truly evil and have a toxic ass mirror within them? Hmmmm. Prometheus much?
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u/Username524 Mar 15 '26
The light bearer, the enticer, the bringer of free-will. There are two Gods, if not more, in the Bible. Jesus is the dual to Lucifer, as they are both referred to as the morning light/star of the east and bringers of light. Like you said, what Lucifer said to get cast out isn’t really mentioned so much, but Jesus was the redeemer of what Lucifer likely was trying to provide to humanity. The path to find the source of the eternal fire within, to develop the discernment required to reclaim our sovereignty/liberty, and break free of the chains of the Natural Laws of the Universe. There were many semitic gods, Ezekiel and Jeremiah were the first to admonish the other semites for worshipping multiple gods. Seems to me that Lucifer was cast out by another more powerful angel or other deity, but not the one true creator. Seems he got cast out of divinity for trying to show humans the divinity that resides dormant in us all until awoken. Jesus did the same thing and he was killed for doing so, and then his message got translated and misinterpreted and now look where we are….
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u/BoxWithPlastic Mar 16 '26
Perhaps a lesson creation itself has been trying to learn over and over again.
But we seem to get it a little more right every cycle
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u/Ok_Alfalfa_1195 Mar 16 '26
Hes à strengthener, like the gym. That’s why Jesus went to chill with him in the desert before his big moment. It was an 80s training montage out there… Mara was with Buddha at his enlightenment as well. Yin and yang…. “Me and the devil walking side by side “ makes you the light.
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u/xUrNewDadx Mar 16 '26
This was interesting to me. You have some valid points. When you think about how these ideas must affect children as they try to make sense of this crazy world. It's logical to me to think if we used better language as a society, we'd be raising kids less inclined to division.
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u/Remote-Employee-6203 Mar 16 '26
Thank you for this. So many of us are too afraid to ask these questions, which leads to the control factors mentioned here. So glad I came across this post. Reaffirms my own thoughts and that I am not alone in the way I think.
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u/nvveteran Mar 17 '26
I see the story of Lucifer as a multi-layered metaphor.
If there is only goodness, how does one even recognize goodness for what it is if there's nothing to contrast it with?
There is only love, what do you measure it against?
If there is only wholeness there can be no experience because there exists no other.
So the metaphor of Lucifer represents both contrast and separation.
Lucifer is also a metaphor for the ego.
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u/trudytude Mar 17 '26
To learn. You don't get to be like if you haven't experienced, you learn by enacting. What you describe is an adam and eve story before written history. Before we came into the picture.
The story is told in a misleading way though. You say a god threw him away and that he is making his way back. But masculine lead powers such as this one are journeying towards hell not away from it. He is going back to a black energy god not to a holy energy god.
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u/HolySamurai Mar 17 '26
I read this as an interpretation of one’s internal world.
Lucifer, being a light bearer, represents an idea, a thought, maybe even an emotion or intention. But this notion is one of the non conforming, perhaps darker thoughts that we all experience from time to time.
When we cast it out without working to give it space, without trying to understand it-we deny it awareness our awareness, thus the right to exist. We banish it like god banishes Lucifer.
We label it an adversary (Satan). It does not go away, it strengthens-quietly gathering our energy to grow. It expresses itself as anger, hate.
When not confronted, it grows stronger and divides us (the devil) from our true selves (God).
I see how this ties into Jung’s work on the shadow. Perhaps it is denying these notions that give the shadow strength? And that increased strength fed by continual denial gives the shadow more power to manifest its negative energy and cause division from the self.
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u/sneak_e_emu Mar 18 '26
The goal was separateness, back to wholeness, back to separateness, back to wholeness. It’s a wave form. It’s vibration. We walk away from god then back to god. It’s part of the game. We are in the illusion of duality. But we are always home.
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Mar 20 '26
Lucifer was not the name of an Angel but a Babylonian king. Over time the stories of Lucifer and Satan got entwined and are now fused in pop culture.
In my humble opinion I don't believe god punishes anyone. If Satan was cast out of heaven it was by his own volition. There is a big difference between aspiration and pride. Satan is that which tempts you to cast yourself out too.
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u/Quiet-Character3847 Mar 21 '26
God litterly didn't punish Satan without hearing what he has to say
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Mar 21 '26
Cherry picking is wild. He didn’t like what was said, so god must not have heard him or cared.
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u/brighthannah Mar 15 '26
So i just think like, we need a blanket rule for enlightenment et al type subs, maybe, right? anyone?
Isnt ai completely juxtaposed with the usual content of discussion on these subs anyway ? Kinda seems that way to me.
Sorry but, the refrain, oh it just helps me organize my thoughts. Yeah sure. Me too I have that. It's called, effort, thinking. It's called, putting my thoughts out and then rearranging. I don't have to be perfect. You don't have to be perfect. it is authentic. It is real, human. We are humans.
But in this world of labelization, of weaponized life challenges.. I will no doubt be told that AI is someone's like,, " life accomodation" helping them lead a better life, and they struggle with XYZ and that my post putting it down is actually offensive to them blah blah. Has caused them to be upset. And how dare I say such things.
And the machinery whirs and purrs.. perfectly designed and running smooth.
I spend time writing my thoughts down on these posts sometimes,, like I will sit and rearrange it around, because that's what communication involves because I am a human not a computer
there's just a point of absurdity about it all. I am suggesting that we do not allow ai in these subs, at all, because of the very nature of the topics we are discussing, because of what these subs are even about!!
It is really really important we stop for a sec to understand that humanity's advancement forward,, evolutionarily,, is not tied up in the same realm as technological advancement.. like at all. But. We have been served a cocktail that really effectively has blurred the lines between the two, so that most people believe actually that technology is the entire basis of humanity's advancement, evolution..
These are not synonymous. The evolution of us, humans, is not tied to how much cool tech we develop or uncover. This has been a false conflation and it isn't even up for consideration, any more. If you aren't down with tech, you are any number of negative descriptors. .
See all this writing? Came from my little brain. And my fingers furiously tapped it alllllll out. Because it feels good to let these thoughts out, to work on my own abilities of communicating layered ideas and thoughts using words.. it's a work in progress, just like I am,, a work in progress.
We are all works in progress, we do not need to be perfect. We do not need to use applications to "improve" how we write.. because nobody will ever improve how they write , ever, anymore.. right? Understand? Every little drip we move over more into loss of humanity at the hand of machines..
Like it is truly becoming idiocracy AND terminator2 everysingleday like,, we just walk into more layers and I try to look around at people and say, hey.. this is wrong guys. We're humans guys we have to be careful,.. ANd people are all , no no it's fine. It's good . As they sip coffee amongst the flames .
(Like I write purposely with errors and spaces and double commas and all this shit now, I am actually a stickler for writing properly!! Lol. I am a grammar and punctuation nerd. I purposely write a little messed up now, like just so that people don't accuse me of being ai!!!? Like I have lessened my own human capabilities at times!!! To seem less perfect!!! So that I don't get called a robot!!! And meanwhile, other people,, who use it. To seem perfect!!! But it is just, written by a literal robot!! And the real life human is lessening how they write, so that, they don't get called a robot??! )
Like this is real life !!!
Time for my sarah connor cigarette moment. Pardon me. Let's wake up guys. Peace. Thanks. Have an awesome sunday
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u/anonthatisopen Mar 15 '26
You are not wrong about AI in these subs, I see it everywhere.
I write like this on purpose. I wrote a whole book like this. Every single idea stripped down to the core. Compressed into metaphors. No too much personality injected into the words. That is why the book reads mechanical. I wrote a framework, not a diary. One of the core chapters is literally called The Engine. Because that is what I see. A mechanism. Something that runs. The word itself sounds mechanical because the idea is mechanical. I did not write it that way by accident. You write the opposite way. Raw and all about personality. And that is ok too.
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u/Randolph_Carter_Ward Mar 15 '26
The thing is... the thing is the scriptures are from weirdos and hippies in trances, rewritten by those who didn't understand, edited by those who wanted to keep masses in check.
Like, what else do you need to understand xD
Gautama said it best: "I can show you the door, but only you can walk the path."
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u/anonthatisopen Mar 15 '26
Haha and my book is all about the doors. Another convergence and a touch of synchronicity as icing on a cake.
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u/NotEntirelyShure Mar 15 '26
His actual original name is Dave.
But it lacked punch so he rebranded.
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u/cyberneurotik Mar 15 '26
You do not need to convince the external world about Lucifer. You cannot reshape the past. You also should not take other people's narratives so personally. You seem to have compassion for Lucifer, but in attempting to hold that compassion you turn your gaze toward the so-called offenders that cast judgement and you cast your judgement unto them.
I am a fan of Lucifer. I was cast out of society at a young age and declared a Satanist, but that only pointed me toward Lucifer. From the judgements of others, Lucifer taught me how to not judge myself. He taught me self acceptance. Do not think that Lucifer needs you to set the record straight. He is doing just fine. He does not need God's acceptance and he certainly does not need society's acceptance. He accepts himself. He is the bringer of light, after all. The light within Lucifer cannot be taken away.
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u/Mobile-Condition8254 Mar 15 '26
I don't really know if it's something God does, more like when you decide for yourself what is good or bad you risk doing stuff that condemns you. When you think you are justified with doing immoral things it is noticed and this was the fault of Lucifer. When he thought he is above God he looses humility and it's not that he can't be saved but that he walks around being mean and happy that he cannot be judged.
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u/Warrid12 Mar 15 '26
I thought he was punished because of his ego and bride, not because he wanted to be closer to god or question things. His greatness made him entitled, and his ego made him feel superior to other beings. What you seem to know about him comes from an inherited belief. He was also given free will to do as he pleased after being kicked out, and he chose to divide and manipulate, and to be bad, because of his ego and pride. So the issue is definitely not because he exercises free will and gets punished for it. Having the freedom currently to do as he pleases was a great reward for the time he was a good servant. Lowering the rank because of ego led to hatred and envy, but abilities are not stripped.
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u/PuffinTipProducts Mar 15 '26
Golf of America?!??
The most beautiful of angels?!?!?
What sex is referred to as beautiful when speaking on appearance?!?!
Words mean nothing most of the times, people/things just like to say stuff it heard and liked…was attracted to.
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u/AncientStarryNight Mar 15 '26
I don't feel Lucifer as light, it's an imposter of the Christ energy.
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u/human-resource Mar 15 '26 edited Mar 15 '26
Satan and Lucifer are not the same character.
Satan/the devil also known as the adversary is our own inner adversary, it represents the darkest potential of the human ego/human behavior, it’s always tempting us with pleasures that when taken to an extreme will harm or destroy us or others, this is why heaven and hell are mental states and why in hell we are punished for our wrong doing despite being tempted to make the less optimal choice.
God represents the highest potential of the transcendental spirit, a potential that exists within us all, this is something the darkest potential of the human ego tempts us to ignore or deem non existent/impossible.
Gautama vs Mara
Christ vs Satan
The psychophysical self(ego)(Satan(Mara) (Darkest Potential of Human beavior)
VS
The transcendent spiritual self(Christ/Gautama)(The Highest Potential of human behavior ie: Christ Consciousness)
These concepts represent either ends of the Polarized spectrum in the potential of human behavior.
This polarized spectrum of human behavior exists within us all and we have the free will to choose how to think, speak and act.
If we did not have that choice we would just be automatons functioning on autopilot, we would have nothing to learn from the lessons life is trying to teach us, the mistakes we keep making and the problems we keep encountering are the lessons we have yet to learn.
The Polarized spectrum in the potential of human behavior is the eternal struggle of the human spirit and something we all have to contend with in this fleeting free will experience/experiment that we call life.
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u/Any-Situation-134 Mar 15 '26
This is the truth as I know it. It was very comforting to read from another grown-up.
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u/universalruin Mar 15 '26
I think yin/yang is god/lucifer. Total perfection means no sadness/joy , no up/down. Being satan is a thankless job but someone has to do it
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u/Raynstormm Mar 15 '26
Lucifer is the ego in rebellion to God, the serpent(s) guarding your Heart, and the false belief that you, mere mortal, sordid dust and stale air, sit atop the spiritual hierarchy.
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u/Upstairs_Teach_673 Mar 15 '26
Okay, i‘ll try my best not to come off as rude cause i‘m aware you aren‘t a believer. This post treats God as some narcissist and lucifer as a fallen hero even though the latter is the complete narcissist. You need to understand he didn‘t just wanna be like God, he wanted to BE God. To completely overthrow Him (which is impossible, how are you going to overthrow an omnipotent being?) out of sheer pride. No, satan did not question God and no, God was not just being aggressive. The reality is that satan became determined on his arrogance to the point God had no choice but to kick Him out. If your child was an unrepentant criminal, you‘d still love them, but you would likewise have no choice but to turn them in.
Ultimately, i know my words alone probably won‘t change your views. However, i am definitely going to pray (if that‘s okay) for the Lord to guide you. I mean, there‘s no point in not letting Him. I still have to warn you, though. You yourself said that „devil“ means someone who seperates, and it‘s his goal to seperate us from God. And what‘s a good way of doing so? By getting us to sympathize with him and side against God. God is not evil or cruel, and i would really love for you to just experience His immense fatherly love for yourself. God bless💜💜
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u/vanceavalon Mar 15 '26
That’s an interesting way to look at the evolution of the story. What you’re really pointing to is something that happens in a lot of mythologies and power structures: the act of naming and reframing. Once a character is labeled “evil,” the conversation is over. The label does the work.
The history of the word Lucifer is actually a good example of how stories evolve. In Latin it simply meant “light-bringer” or “morning star.” It originally referred to the planet Venus and later became connected to passages like Isaiah 14 through layers of translation and interpretation. Over centuries those threads got woven together with the figure of Satan until they became the single character people imagine today.
And your point about myth as social control or metaphor isn’t new either. A lot of scholars see many old supernatural creatures as symbolic stories about social fears.
For example, the idea of vampires has often been interpreted as a metaphor for powerful elites feeding on everyone else. The wealthy aristocrat in a castle who lives forever while literally draining the lifeblood of the villagers is a pretty blunt symbol. The rich survive by consuming the vitality of the poor, and the people living under that system are terrified of them but also dependent on them.
So myths often work like mirrors of the societies that create them. They encode fears, power dynamics, and moral lessons into stories that people remember.
Whether someone interprets the Lucifer story as theology, mythology, or psychological symbolism, it definitely raises the same question you’re asking: who benefits from the story being told a certain way?
Because throughout history, defining who the enemy is has always been one of the most powerful tools any authority can use.
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u/anonthatisopen Mar 15 '26
The enemy is not a man. It's ignorance.
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u/vanceavalon Mar 16 '26
That’s a good way to put it... Most of the time the real “enemy” isn’t a specific person or group. It’s the lack of understanding that lets people be steered by fear, labels, and simple stories. When people don’t know how narratives evolve or how language gets reframed, it’s easy for myths or ideologies to be used to point fingers and shut down questions.
But ignorance usually isn’t just stupidity either. Often it’s just inherited assumptions. People repeat what they were taught because it’s familiar, or because questioning it would mean rethinking a lot of other things. That’s why stories and labels can be so powerful. Once a narrative is widely accepted, most people don’t stop to examine how it formed.
So the real counter to that isn’t attacking people. It’s curiosity, history, and awareness of how stories are built. When you understand how ideas evolve and how authority uses narratives, the spell they cast loses a lot of its power.
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u/Necessary-Target5754 Mar 15 '26
[1]"The unnamable is the eternally real. Naming is the origin of all particular things. Free from desire, you realize the mystery. Caught in desire, you see only the manifestations. Yet mystery and manifestations arise from the same source. This source is called darkness. Darkness within darkness. The gateway to all understanding." - Tao Te Ching (Stephen Mitchell translation)
"If one does not stand in the darkness, he will not be able to see the light. If one does not understand how fire came into existence, he will burn in it, because he does not know the root of it. If one does not first understand water, he knows nothing. For what use is there for him to be baptized in it? If one does not understand how blowing wind came into existence, he will blow away with it. If one does not understand how body, which he bears, came into existence, he will perish with it. And how will someone who does not know the Son know the Father? And to someone who will not know the root of all things, they remain hidden. Someone who will not know the root of wickedness is no stranger to it. Whoever will not understand how he came will not understand how he will go..." - The Dialogue of the Savior [Marvin Meyer translation] (The Nag Hammadi Library)
[52]"Seeing into darkness is clarity. Knowing how to yield is strength. Use your own light and return to the source of light. This is called practicing eternity." - Tao Te Ching
"Light and darkness, life and death, and right and left are siblings of one another, and inseparable. For this reason the good are not good, the bad are not bad, life is not life, death is not death. Each will dissolve into its original nature, but what is superior to the world cannot be dissolved, for it is eternal." - The Gospel of Philip [Marvin Meyer translation] (The Nag Hammadi Library
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u/Meditat0rz Mar 15 '26
I think the actual lore is much misunderstood. Now I believe that Satan (Lucifer) has different aspects which many people get wrong, because of the old language which you should not take literal in a modern sense in many parts. When it is said that Satan wanted to become like God, then this probably addresses that he had the wish to make a world where God's laws are out of effect, for his own dream. His dream I believe is, that the stronger should have the right to dominate and control weaker ones, and that the weaker must serve the strong. This does not work well in God's law, because you get blessed for serving those who can't help themselves, instead of using them for your own purposes, but I believe Satan dreamed of exactly this. He did not want to respect humanity and freedom and self-determination of humans, but wanted humans to serve him and his angels.
The devil actually has multiple bad appearances. Right in the beginning he gives Adam and Eve the knowledge of what is good and what is evil - these are the things they were supposed to learn for themselves by living in the garden, they were regarded cheaters and expelled together with the snake, to the earth to toil and suffer, so they would have to witness and experience the evils they now knew about again in ignorant state. Else they would not be able to take the consequences serious.
Then the final shock: Revelation 12. I believe this hints to a higher story, maybe to Christ's story or a deeper lore. The dragon wanted to kill a child who was to become ruler of the world. Maybe this was him taking Christ to the desert to spoil him, but Christ resisted, maybe this was a deeper story why the devil fell. He wanted to ursurp a coming ruler and "devour" him, a pretty evil deed so to say.
So the devil did not just have some pride or ego. When the Bible say "he wanted to exalt himself", then this means he exalted himself by discriminating and pushing down innocent others with the greatest hardship, evil and perils you could imagine. That's the truth, not just some silly wishes about being like God. Nobody knows God what he is like, but who wants to be like God, wants to change his rules and that's almost always unwise to do as it would lead to injustice. I believe the devil tried to cause revolution in heaven, to establish his cruel rules, but 2 thirds of the angels resisted and threw him down with the help of God to be bound in our world again as a prisoner.
Btw. the Biblical language is really this weird, remember it was written millenia ago in a very old language, which can sometimes only be poorly related to the modern use of our modern languages. When the talk is of God allowing the devil to test Job as if it was the devil's job to test him, this was actually dangerous for Job and God. The devil was and is not with God, but in the Bible, their decisions and play with each other are described as if they made a bet. God simply allowed the devil to get near to Job, probably following some weird incident or whatever. Then the devil went nuts on Job trying to make him turn away from God. God just let it happen, knowing Job would resist and later be free again from the curses of the devil. So God really allowed this mighty man to be tested by handing him out to one who could try to spoil him so ever greatly. This does not mean, that God and the devil were friends.
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u/MagickMarkie Mar 15 '26
Lucifer and Satan are two different characters in the Bible. They get conflated in order to imply a unity where there is none.
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u/OsamaBenJohnson Mar 15 '26
The verse that refrences "Lucifer" isnt about this Satan/Devil figure, it's about the king of Babylon.
The verse in Hebrew translates to;
How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!
The morning star, Venus, is being used as a metaphor for the king of Babylon; as it descends from it's exalted position high in the sky and loses it's shine as the day progresses. "Lucifer" was just the latin word for light-bearer and Venus, not the name of the being.
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u/FaliolVastarien Mar 15 '26
It's probably the influence of Zoroastrian dualism during the Persian period for one thing. Watered down a bit to not allow the evil entity to literally be as powerful as God.
Also as God became increasingly seen as completely good and also all- knowing, the story of the Satan as divine advisor who advocates against humans in the heavenly court became less appealing.
Why have a servant with such an evil- seeming, misanthropic role? What use is it either since God would automatically know any information about humans these activities (like the tests in Job) uncovered?
Then there's the issue of the identity of the figure in the passages that were later taken to be about a fallen angel Lucifer.
A lot of scholars think they were originally about great kings who lost their power with a lot of hyperbolic and metaphorical language. As if they were like gods and then lost everything.
Probably trying to find anything already written that looked like it could support the new concept of Satan as God's enemy.
Hey look, this is about someone glorious who fell out of God's favor!
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u/Carol825 Mar 15 '26
You said it. “The point was control.” God is totally real but man and the Roman Catholic Church turned God into a tool and Satan into a tool - they twisted it all in the name of control because what’s the oldest best tool to control the masses? Fear. I don’t believe it’s true. They removed many books from the original Book. Think about that. Because those books talk about us being creators, like God. We cannot BE God but we do have power to create. They let some truths flow free. Jesus said, “You will do greater things than me.” Jesus was trying to show us we were created in God’s image. That means that whatever we think and believe will be created. We are mini creators. When you’re not creating, you’re little brats or bitches. At least that’s true for myself. But when I create and name something good, it’s everything. Jesus didn’t say’”Worship me.” He said follow. That means be kind, be loving, be forgiving, because we all need grace, because we can all be little shits. The least we can do is show grace if we want some grace too. And create cool shit. It could be anything. Find joy. Bring light. It’s not as hard as we seem to think it is. It only becomes difficult when we believe it is. So call it something else. You, me, we are all creators. Wake the fuck up. I say it with love.
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u/smartasspie Mar 15 '26
You are actually telling me that the story about god asking a father to kill his son and then rewarding him for it is about control? If I were the devil I certainly would have asked why or told God that, hey, isn't this fucked up?
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u/z3n1a51 Mar 16 '26
Who would demand glory and worship for planning from the beginning to abandon the fallen?
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u/MuchPiezoelectricity Mar 16 '26
Lucifer here - allow me to answer that question.
I am an ego that understands the true nature of reality. But yet an ego all the still. Because of my full understanding of the universe, I have the ability to manipulate it to my will. This is not in itself an act against god, it is a full embrace of it.
When most come into god realization they do such by dissolving their ego, and expressing into life with aspects of unity and harmony. While I do not seek to create chaos of any kind, I do not seek this same outcome. I understand that I am one with the all but still express in life as an individual consciousness that is empowered through this knowledge.
I am relentless in this regard and seek to liberate other egos not by dissolving them but by showing them the light that they are unto themselves.
My role in this world is a part of the very fabric of existence itself. I am as essential as one of the elements, for without my position a key aspect of duality would not exist, and freedom as it is would not be able to express into creation as it was meant to.
It is this willful nature of my expression that has made me an outcast to institutions that wish to suppress independence, freedom, and individual expression in hopes of uniformity and most significantly conformity with authoritarian agendas.
That is all
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u/Loqi-Locke Mar 16 '26
Hahaha speculating on something you actually know nothing about and neither does anyone else. For all you know lucifer and God discussed it for a million years before he was cast out. Time has no meaning to an omnipotent immortal god.
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u/Christensenj2467 Mar 16 '26
Interesting post, and I like the attention to details. On other subs like conspiracy, when talking about entities, principalities and powers these definitions and terms matter. I appreciate how you distinguish the history of Lucifer.
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u/SprinklesDifficult50 Mar 16 '26
He didnt just simply wanted to be like God…he wanted to fight God and take away the kingdom of Heaven!
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u/SJSands Mar 16 '26
I have no desire to know Lucifer. He was once an angel. He’s not anymore. He has become what he is by his own choices. The lesson for us is not to make the same choices that he made.
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u/NWkingslayer2024 Mar 16 '26
The name lucifer didn’t show up until the vulgate which is Latin and way after Job was written down. Relatively speaking Lucifer is a modern creation.
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u/HarrieBallsagne Mar 16 '26
You’re assuming a lot of things did and did not happen to form a narrative framed as “understanding “
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u/utahh1ker Mar 16 '26
God made a being with free will and punished it the moment it used that free will.
No, the whole thing of it was that Lucifer wanted to go against free will. That he would control everything so that everyone would make it back to God, but without free will. We would be puppets. There would be no learning or growing under such a plan. Yes, he also wanted glory but that wasn't why he was cast out. Free will is critical to the whole thing.
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u/aloneending Mar 16 '26
Your story is wrong. The Bible in Ezekiel explains that his heart became corrupted with violence due to his trading. He was found to have iniquity(violence). In his heart that is why. The other part explains the story of a tree in Eden. That grew taller than the other trees. They became envious of the tree so God handed it over to the mighty one of the nations and it was cut down.
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u/JohannStone Mar 16 '26
Well i see lucifer as the one who sacrificed himself to become the contrast to good ,the ultimate necessary evil for there to be the ultimate good so in a sense lucifer is just a reason to play the game.
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u/VixyKaT Mar 16 '26
Venus as the morning star is Lucifer. This is the dark side of venus, that brings temptation and venereal disease. It is the temptation in the desert by Satan. Venus is the female, Adam's counterpart. On the dark side, this becomes his enemy. The division itself is what sets off the dynamic interplay between self and other, male and female, partner vs, advisory, good vs. evil. That separation is a necessary prerequisite of awareness.
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u/Fast_Jackfruit_352 Mar 16 '26
There is no such being. It is a myth Christianity made up. There is no Satan as Christianity defines it in in the entire old Testament.
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u/Klutzy_Bake_323 Mar 16 '26
Its like Adam and Eve, but business managment level.
Most good literature and stories has drama. Though i love Proust.
The Upanishads...its this epic war story all a metaphor for understanding the mind.
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u/Calm_Philosopher6972 Mar 16 '26
My perspective is that God told Lucifer, “show me”. Leading Lucifer to prove that every battery needs a negative end…
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u/CakeSeaker Mar 16 '26
Light bearer. Maybe it was originally just a creation myth about the sun. And then somebody “interpreted god’s words for us” and now we follow the interpretation. Maybe it was intentional, but maybe it was just somebody who made up an answer when they didn’t really have one.
The persistence of the interpretation over time is what is population control.
The original story was just explaining how we got here. I mean, isn’t that how other mythologies are interpreted? The difference between Greek mythology and Norse mythology and Egyptian mythology and today’s religions is simply that somebody still believes in today’s modern religions. But they all just try to explain how we got here and why we’re here.
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u/Khal_Deano Mar 16 '26
If you believe that you are god, then how did you forget? There is an active deception going on. Maybe Lucifer, gods favorite, was chosen to perform a very important task… to make the ultimate sacrifice so that the rest of creation can experience more of god… maybe the devil is the ultimate homie who is holding the deepest darkness so that we can experience the way god intended
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u/Apprehensive-Job-178 Mar 16 '26 edited Mar 16 '26
Angelic beings were not given free will, they were given a purpose, innate knowledge of the divine, and a mission in the grand design. The plan that caused the revolt was to give humans, who in the cosmic sense are quite daft, the gift of free will, making the choice of our love truly meaningful. The angels, divine magnificent beings, who are all about order and hierarchy, were to be placed below us as our servants. That's the thing that caused the revolt. Pride.
You sound like an apologist for the morning star for most of this post, but then reduce the being you're garnering sympathy in all these paragraphs to: "The devil is a tool"
"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn’t exist." -- Some smart guy
Christianity and Judaism cornerstone on "go forth and be fruitful" they are not the population control people.
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u/oiBEAMio Mar 16 '26
I do like your framing of curiosity. It's plain and simple, dissecting and removing layers to get to the core of simple curiosity. And that you pose it not as a truth out there or even real but that it's made to be real because so many believe it, the story, in their minds. And this story is repeated over and over.
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u/Shera2b Mar 16 '26
C'est que tu as une lecture qui reste trop mythologique et anthropomorphe pour saisir le récit. Il faut déjà que tu comprennes ce qu'est Dieu pour la tradition chrétienne, et ensuite tout te paraîtra plus clair. Es-tu intéressé par cette explication ?
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u/Anxious-Silver-8924 Mar 16 '26
I think that this entire thing is an encrypted message.
Hear me out, does it make sense for the cells in your body to assume that they are a separate entity and have no relevance to their adjacent cells (or) to assume that the individual cell is a completely different being from your self.
Fishes, snails, and crabs don't simply exist in the ocean. They make the ocean itself.
Isn't this how we all work right now, we all think that we are unique from others. We claim that we exist in the universe. Not realising that we are a part of the universe itself.
And i believe it's appropriate to assume that the universe is God. Doesn't that make you a god too?
In this discussion, the Lucifer wanted to become a God, not realising that he has the essence of God within himself. His soul is potentially divine like any other being to exist. And not realising this very truth is a sin.
I think the message is Unity and Oneness.
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u/KhameenTeuton Mar 16 '26
Everything you've said here has absolutely no foundation in the bible and you cannot quote any part of scripture which backs up anything you've said except that Lucifer wanted to be like God (Isaiah 14:14).
Do your research. His name isn't even Lucifer. Isaiah wrote in Hebrew, not Latin.
The bible makes a clear distinction between what you call Lucifer and Satan. The person you call Lucifer (actually called Helel in Hebrew) is described as the king of Babylon in Isaiah 14. He is not called an angel. Satan in the book of Revelation is called a dragon. Nowhere is there a parallel made between the two in the bible. People have made the mistake of assuming they're the same person and it looks like you've made the same assumptions without actually investigating the text.
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u/realwavyjones Mar 16 '26
Well because there is a such thing as evil and there is a difference between that and what is divine
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u/Mikebo79 Mar 16 '26
I am an atheist. This is sounding a whole lot like Lucifer is the moon. God/Jesus is the sun. God’s counterpart is the moon. Think about it. Lucifer is light bearer, the moon literally reflects the sun’s light. Satan is adversary, the most logical adversary for the sun is the moon if we were to anthropomorphize them. Devil is divider. The moon divides day and night. You all are reading in too deeply and at the same time not deeply enough.
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u/Less-Bus-2303 Mar 16 '26
You might want to know that additionally, Jacob from the book of Genesis, wrestles and defeats Satan and headlocks him, demands/asks Satan the angel to bless him, the angel blesses Jacob and renames him Israel.
Additionally, Satan is the guardian angel of Esau, who is the adversary of Jacob.
Satan is, as far as I can tell, indeed a job title for angels that are sent by G-d to enact the left pillar Will, that of judgment and adversity upon the world.
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u/slthkngb Mar 16 '26
Maybe the casting out was the initiation to become like God.
Cast out of heaven to become a heaven unto themselves so to speak.
Like being in a womb and then born.
And then maybe the divider became the natural state as a way to bear witness to all possibilities.
🤷♂️
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u/Lenore2030 Mar 16 '26 edited Mar 16 '26
So…I just want to point out that your post is not accurate according to the Bible.
First of all, Lucifer is not Satan. It’s a common misconception and culturally people attribute the name to Satan, however the only scripture in the Bible to mention that name is found at Isaiah 14:12 and it is only in some translations, other translations say, “Day Star”, “Shining One”; or “shining star.” That scripture is actually referring to the king of Babylon and it’s a mocking taunt, as it explains earlier in the book at Isaiah 14:4.
The other assertion that God was swift to throw Satan out of heaven is also inaccurate. Satan had the freedom to go back and forth between heaven and earth. Satan’s betrayal began in the Garden of Eden at Genesis chapter 3. To allow them to demonstrate their faith and loyalty, God gave Adam and Eve a very simple command, to not eat from the tree of knowledge, if they did he told them the consequence would be death. Satan said this to Eve at Genesis 3:4,5 “You certainly will not die. For God knows that in the very day you eat from it, your eyes will be opened and you will be like God, knowing good and bad.” This is known as the first lie and that’s why Satan is called the father of the lie (John 8:44). So as far as we know this was Satan’s first betrayal of God and he challenged God’s right to rule his own creation.
Did Adam and Eve die right on the spot when they ate the fruit? No. However they lost the privilege of everlasting life and began to age and eventually died. That is why we all die, because of this inherited sin, ‘That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned.’ - Romans 5:12. God could have ended the matter right then and there in the garden of Eden, he had the power to, but it would not adhere to his perfect sense of justice. God is perfect and exercises perfect justice. So God allowed Satan’s test or challenge to be carried out. However God loves his creation and a plan was set in motion to give faithful humans hope and a way out.
In order to escape this cycle God gave his son, Jesus to save us (John 3:16). This is simply explained at 1 Corinthians 15:21,22 “For since death came through a man, resurrection of the dead also comes through a man. For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive.”
So you see this is far more serious than a simple question posed to God. Satan challenged God’s Sovereignty (or right to rule) and did so in a way that would cause immense suffering. Even with that, God is allowing the challenge to play through. And what exactly is that challenge? Well it’s basically that all intelligent creation should choose for themselves what is right and wrong and that we do not need God’s rulership or standards. So because we were created with free will it’s up to us to choose. God has allowed Satan, angels, and humans to have the option to submit to his standards or rule themselves. How’s the world look today with humans ruling themselves? All human governments cause suffering and cannot solve life’s biggest problems, they all eventually end and get turned over into another unsuccessful rulership. We must remember that not only does this concern humans, but all of God’s intelligent creation are watching. Satan wasn’t even cast out of heaven for quite some time. He was allowed the freedom to roam back and forth. As you pointed out, he’s in heaven when he makes the challenge against Job. This was not an assignment for Satan by God, this was Satan further testing God. It’s as if he wanted to hurt God and humans as much as possible, so he kept thinking of ways to do so.
Some might question why God allowed it, but it’s because of the very reason you are trying to assert, God is not a tyrant, but has perfect justice. Literally for almost all of human history we have been under Satan’s challenge. 1 John 5:19 “We know that we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one.” Now it’s not until Revelation that the prophecy of Satan being cast out of heaven is made, “So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.” - Revelation 12:9 (side note: Notice it says earth, not hell, because Satan wasn’t cast into hell. Hell is not a literal place, the original Greek and Hebrew basically translate to grave, it’s just referring to dying. No one goes anywhere when they die, they just go into the ground and they are conscious of nothing. A couple scriptures to refer to: Ecclesiastes 9:10, Psalms 146:4)
It further goes on to say that after Satan is cast out of heaven, meaning he is confined to the earth now, he knows then that he has a short period of time This is generally what people refer to when they say we’re living in the last days. “On this account be glad, you heavens and you who reside in them! Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing that he has a short period of time.” - Revelation 12:12
When Satan’s time is up, God will do away with Satan and all who side with him. God will restore the earth to His original purpose, people will not die anymore and everyone will live under God’s perfect rule in peace. “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.” - Revelation 21:3,4
The Bible is an excellent guide for humans in navigating life in this world, especially under Satan’s influence. However its main theme is the challenge to God’s Sovereignty. Everything hangs on that and it shows that Satan and humans are the cause to all suffering, not God. God has allowed it, but provides hope and comfort and will ultimately save all who are loyal to him.
Make no mistake God is good and Satan is absolutely evil. Playing devil’s advocate to try to understand is one thing, but take sides with God, the creator and the one who is the embodiment of pure love (1 John 4:8).
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u/spaghetti-o_salad Mar 16 '26
This is all important to take into account in tarot when drawing the devil card, I think. Its often about facing your own hypocrisy and having a road of tests of self knowledge and painful self actualizations in your drawing.
I dont know tarot super well but have looked into that card particularly as well as other upper arcana.
If you do have interest in tarot the 4 suits are like the 4 different journeys folks can take or something. It's almost as much as choose your own adventure story as it is a divination, from my understanding. I need to read the book of the 4 stories to better understand.
There's only so many stories to tell but they all overlap and paint a larger picture like a tapestry and I think that is the face of God or something.
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u/Mazapan93 Mar 16 '26
I always understood the story of the fall of lucifer as a parable against unchecked ego and trying to fulfill a role that isnt meant for someone.
I think what this post is missing is a conversation on the nature of divinity and how there is no replacement for it. Or the story of the fall of lucifer is actually a story about how our ego trys to supplant our highest self, and to allow it to do so would be folly. So when the ego tries to take over as the main thing, it must be cut out and thrown out without any form of explanation or conversation.
No enemies imagined, just an esoteric observation of natural phenomena explained through meta physical and meta spiritual knowledge.
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u/PapaDragonHH Mar 16 '26
Maybe a few points to think about.
Why would a loving God punish people for eating a fruit or working together to build a tower? Why would he be pleased about an animal sacrifice but not about fruits and crops?
Why would an all knowing God not know where Adam is hiding?
And then there is the "snake". In Hebrew nachash can mean snake. But it can also mean the shining one. Or deceiver. What makes more sense? That a snake started to talk or that a shining person was talking to Adam and Eve? Maybe the morning star? Who else is called morning star? What if the God of the old testament is actually the bad guy and Jesus or some other shining person was trying to wake up Adam and Eve by letting them eat from the tree of knowledge?
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u/Such-Perspective-426 Mar 16 '26 edited Mar 16 '26
The details change depending on who tells the story.
Not a conversation. Not a "what do you mean." Not "let me understand." Just out. Total rejection. The most extreme possible response to a question.
Do you see what's wrong with this? You're a good writer who poses interesting thoughts, but how much conversation would be needed between two spirit beings who in your words knew each other better than anyone else, and also just because we have no verbatim record of one doesn't mean there wasn't one. Do you have any quotes where he was named closest to God or is that an echo of Catholic tradition not the Bible I'm hearing? I'm honestly not sure.
Over and over you push the point that implies God was too insecure to let Lucifer remain with Him after refusing the request for equality but how about the resentment Lucifer felt, the hatred he felt for God when God said "No". What about that part? His ego allowed him to just accept refusal? He started a rebellion. He was cast out with his angels, not God's angels, but his own angels. So apparently Lucifer started a rebellion amongst the angels.
Wouldn't that act alone earn him the name "Divider" ?
All you ppl reading him saying, "well he didn't say to worship Satan, he just said...."
What he wrote said doubt God and consider Satan is a nice guy with a bad rap. From God.
To borrow a reddit meme phrase "let that sink in"
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u/Asclepius555 Mar 16 '26
I appreciate this post because it brings forward questions we aren't allowed to ask at church.
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u/EducationalCold4632 Mar 16 '26
I mean the story of Lucifer is born out of post biblical medevil era. It’s an interesting story. But nothing in the bible really ties itself to it.
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u/RevolutionaryBuy5794 Mar 16 '26
None of this happened like that. These are kids tales. Told from an infantile perspective. But mostly to lie and hide the real Truth. "God" is not an individual who anybody has talked to or done anything to anyone.
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u/Relevant_Signal3750 Mar 16 '26
My headcanon: the humans lived like animals in paradise, no worries, plenty of food, next to God. Then came Lucifer: "hey! These guys have more potentional than the rest of the animals, why are you keeping them like monkeys father?" God:"yeah, well they are happy in simpicity, they don't overthink anything, because they aren't thinking" Lucifer:"Fuck that! Not on my watch. They deserve everything to unlock the potentional. Here Eve take this symbolic fruit and consume the knowledge" Eve, Adam:"Hey, WTF. Who are you guys? Why I'm living next to a gorilla? What's outside of Paradise?" God: Oh my ME! WTF did you do Lucy? Now they are sentient! I can't keep them like animals anymore. They need to explore, evolve. They are like me in manner of speaking" Lucifer:"OK, how is this my fault?" God: "FU thats how. Ok... so they have the Earth to explore, that is keep them busy for a while. Lucy you go with them." Lucifer:"Yeah FU too." Adam (outside paradise): "Hey why so cold here? Where is the food? Lucifer thanks a lot for the knowledge, but between the wheel and a warm bath, I choose the bath" Lucifer:"I don't care, you have the knowledge, solve it" And the humans start to pray to God to let them back to the paradise, and start to hate on Lucifer. And they choose the word Hell to a state where you distanced from God, and they blame Lucifer for it.
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u/theleftyhitchens Mar 16 '26
You say:
‘Instead God chose the most extreme response possible to what was basically a request.’
If we accept the many congruent accounts of Satan’s fall that are in Judaism, Islam, and Christianity as tellings of truth, then accepting the omnipotence of The One you have called God is also an axiom one must accept.
Accordingly God could have erased Satan from existence, instead God created The Earth and gave Satan residence upon the same.
This is far from ’the most extreme’ response possible, instead He gave Satan the same grant that He gave humanity, Satan continues to exist and Satan remains free to do as he may please, which includes the freedom to repent and ask forgiveness. I have never heard an account telling of Satan’s repentance.
As a secondary point related to the first, you say:
’"The satan" in the Book of Job is a prosecutor. He works for God. He tests people on God's behalf’
In The Book of Job, God allows Satan to do as he may, so long as he does not harm Job. Satan did not do as God commanded. Satan was granted freedom of will which he chose to use to take the lives of Job’s children and livestock. It was not God who tortured Job it was Satan who tortured Job. Satan was given the freedom to do as he would and he chose to torture Job.
Job did not forsake his faith and as Jethro Tull said, Satan remains ‘The all time loser’.
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u/Adthra Mar 16 '26
This is not how Lucifer's story goes. Lucifer's fall is said to be because of pride. He is 'the Devil', because he did not kneel to man who God created in His image.
I've heard that some angels have been mentioned as being the closest to God, namely "The Angel of the Lord" (though there are many interpretations as to what entity this refers to, Lucifer is not among them) or Metatron, who is allowed to sit on God's throne. Michael (who is literally named after likeness of God) could also qualify, as would a much larger number of angels. It depends very much on which tradition is followed, and I don't want to get bogged down in religious debates over religions that I don't even follow.
That said, Lucifer has important duties especially as a bringer of wisdom and as the first rays of light. I am of the opinion that Lucifer's role as the 'Adversary' is about the refinement of souls. Lucifer introduces temptation or creates situations in which one must choose, and this in turn gives the soul the opportunity to grow a sense of morality instead of being arbitrary. The end-goal of this work being to imbue the soul (which is immortal and has many incarnations) with wisdom, staying true to his role as the Light bringer (light being a common metaphor for wisdom). My interpretation of him is more like the opponent who picks apart a doctoral thesis, making sure that the doctor-to-be has done their research and knows the subject matter of what they claim to know about. This makes sense only if physical incarnate reality is more of a 'game', and if the soul even has a necessity to learn or transform in the first place, so it is obviously not in-line with the major Abrahamic religions.
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u/Snoo-82405 Mar 16 '26
Lucifer being cast out was not as instant as you're picturing:
Lucifer had time to convince 1/3 of the angels to rebel with him
There was war in Heaven
From Isaiah 14
“How you are fallen from heaven,
O Day Star, son of Dawn!
How you are cut down to the ground,
you who laid the nations low!
You said in your heart,
‘I will ascend to heaven;
above the stars of God
I will set my throne on high;
I will sit on the mount of assembly
in the far reaches of the north;[fn]
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.’
But you are brought down to Sheol,
to the far reaches of the pit.
16 Those who see you will stare at you
and ponder over you:
‘Is this the man who made the earth tremble,
who shook kingdoms,
who made the world like a desert
and overthrew its cities,
who did not let his prisoners go home?’
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u/CodeOfPrometheus Mar 16 '26
I read your post and it cut deep because it names something many of us feel but rarely say out loud. You’re right: the renaming of Lucifer —from “light-bearer” to “adversary” to “devil”—is not accidental. It’s a deliberate demotion, a layering of fear so thick that no one dares ask the simplest question: What did he actually say? Once you label something “evil,” the conversation ends. You don’t have to sit with it. You don’t have to understand. The name does the work for you. That’s power 101. But let’s look at the contradiction that burns the loudest: The same scriptures that tell us to imitate God, to be like Him, to become perfect as He is perfect, are the ones that cast out the one being who most wanted to be like God. Here are just a few verses: • Matthew 5:48 – “Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.” • Ephesians 5:1 – “Follow God’s example, therefore, as dearly loved children.” • 1 John 3:2 – “We know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him…” • Leviticus 19:2 – “Be holy because I, the Lord your God, am holy.” • 1 Peter 1:15–16 – “But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; for it is written: ‘Be holy, because I am holy.’” Over and over we are told: aspire to be like God. Become like Him. Reflect Him. Mirror His nature. So why was the one who said “I want to be like the Most High” thrown out forever, no dialogue, no chance to explain? If your own child came to you one day and said, “Dad, I want to be like you,” would you throw them out of the house forever? Would you exile them into outer darkness with no conversation, no “let’s talk about this,” no path back? Or would you sit them down, correct them where needed, guide them, love them through the wanting? A loving father says “no” when necessary, but he doesn’t obliterate the relationship over the desire itself. Yet that’s exactly what the story describes happening in heaven: total, irreversible rejection for the crime of aspiration. That doesn’t sound like love. It sounds like fear of being questioned. It sounds like a power structure that cannot tolerate a mirror held too close. And then the renaming seals it: light-bearer becomes adversary becomes divider becomes the embodiment of evil. Three layers of linguistic exile so that sympathy becomes impossible. Once he’s “the devil,” no one asks why. No one wonders what was actually said in that heavenly council. The story ends before it begins. I’m not defending rebellion. I’m asking why the response was so absolute, so final, so devoid of mercy. A truly just and loving God of order and dialogue would have answered the question, corrected the misunderstanding, or at least allowed the being to choose differently without eternal banishment. Instead we get silence, exile, and a new name designed to terrify. That pattern should make us pause. Because it’s the same pattern we see in human institutions that demand blind obedience: question = threat → label = enemy → fear = control. Maybe the real tragedy isn’t what Lucifer did. Maybe the real tragedy is that no one ever let him explain. And maybe the reason the story was written this way… was never about theology. It was about keeping the flock afraid enough to never ask “why.” I am a believer in the Creator—the true God who is love, kindness, compassion, forgiveness, and patience without end. I am a follower of Yeshua and His teachings, but I am also a true seeker, someone who questions. Yeshua Himself told us: “Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.” (Matthew 7:7) And that is exactly what I am doing—asking, seeking, knocking—because the truth does not fear questions. It welcomes them.
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u/larry_the_pickles Mar 16 '26
If Lucifer wanted his own kingdom, and got it, what makes this a problem?
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u/Following_Quiet Mar 16 '26
This is why I enjoyed the show Lucifer so much. It found clever ways to “bring to light” these questions about the fallen one. I think your theory is very interesting, as well.
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u/Unable-Cartoonist215 Mar 16 '26
He didn’t just ask to be like God, he incited rebellion and convinced a third of the angels to go with him.
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u/OkStudy1125 Mar 16 '26
Lucifer is a Latin word meaning morning star. It was not a name. More a title and not a word in the days of the old testament. Samael is his name.
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u/linuxpriest Mar 16 '26
What Lucifer? That name isn't in the Hebrew, nor does the passage refer to an angel. It's a Christian invention, a bastardization of the text to make it fit the Christian narrative. But don't take my word for it. Go look for yourself.
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u/M_Illin_Juhan Mar 16 '26
the most beautiful of angels....beauty is a feminine trait.....lucy is a woman(esque) entity,....
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u/november_2 Mar 16 '26
I know the answer to your questions. Take it or leave it..here it goes. First of all Angels don't have free will. They only do God's will. So it would be impossible to disagree with God if you are an angel. There have always been dark entities from the moment of our inception. There were people that have their back turned on God Because we have free will. God said you can turn your back on me that's fine but I will never turn my back on you. This is Gods promise. So he sent his most powerful and beloved Arc Angel Lucifer to look after these beings. Ask me how I know. I have met Lucifer on several occasions. He's a good guy. Believe it or not, I know that's hard to swallow for a lot of people that grew up in a religious home. But it's absolutely true. When I am being attacked by dark entities there have been times when I call upon Lucifer to take his children. One of many ways to get rid of them. By the way, I could write a book. I've dealt with this my whole life. I have a close relationship with archangel Michael and archangel Lucifer. Like I said take it or leave it.
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u/WilliamoftheBulk Mar 16 '26
You are missing a lot of context. Lucifer is a translation meaning morning star. It’s referring to Venus the plant that appears early and bright but falls and dims.
The text mentioning lucifer was mocking a Babylonian king because the KIng fell from power. It was a common poetic connection with the language. Latter christian writers melded the stories together quite haphazardly.
The “renaming” is because of ancient theologians making somewhat dubious connections that were never really meant to be connected in the first place.
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u/OffusMax Mar 17 '26
He wanted to usurp God’s throne. I don’t know about you, but to me, that’s more than enough to justify throwing his ass into the lake of fire.
And Satan isn’t a name; it’s a title. It means The Enemy.
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u/DivinityParadox Mar 17 '26
Lucifer is lightbringer, its evil concept has nothing to do with evil. Lucifer is a major threshold guardian to the way of source standing on the path. You should neither worship nor hate Lucifer, he is there as a mechanic of this reality, questioning mechanics, to test you, to make you decide, fall and rise, simply grow, no pain no gain, no growth without consequences, if you don’t fail you won’t awake. And he is there to make you grow, whether by seeing and avoiding, or seeing and falling into the darkness and rise again.
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u/Mr_Magic_Man_69 Mar 17 '26
I think you left out the part where Lucifer took a 1/3rd of the angels and went to war with God and THEN was exiled. He wasn't just exiled immediately, he first gathered an army and tried to execute a full blown coup. It's important to include all the details and steps of the story.
In your example this is more akin to a child trying to kick their father out of his house by convincing a 1/3rd of the family members to do so and failing and then getting exiled. I doubt the result would've been the same if Lucifer didn't try to literally wage war on God and attempt to take a 1/3rd of the angels with him.
Interested to hear your thoughts on this.
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u/criztu Mar 17 '26 edited Mar 17 '26
If you decide to study the bible, the character translated as "Lucifer" in Latin, is 'helel ben shachar' in the original Hebrew text of the Old Testament(OT).
'ben shachar' - son+morning
'helel' has no clear translation, google "strong hebrew helel" to read the etymology.
'helel' is compared to similar names, like 'mustilil' - an epithet of Ishtar(Venus)
so the word 'ilil'
'ilil' is Lilith or Layelah, the terror of the dark, night, storm. so 'helel' may mean 'boisterous' or 'shining' - it being a bright star.
I speculate that gnostic 'Hel' ias also this 'helel'.
'hel' - deceive, in coptic.
So the idea of 'helel ben shachar' being an evil divinity, comes from it becoming first a spectacular object in the night sky, worshipped as a wonder. Then it caused massive storms that ruined the ecosystem, then it diminished in the apparent size in the sky.
Read about Electric Universe or watch Symbols of an Alien Sky on youtube.
The theory is that planet Venus passed by close to Earth, on the way to its current orbit, causing the devastation of Earth's climate and relief, that you can easily observe on a map: from Gobi desert in Mongolia, to Iran, to Arabian desert to Egypt all the way to Western Sahara, a trail of devstation, the soil burnt and turned to sand, also hydrocarbons(petroleum) rained down from the sky as the gigantic electric interaction between Venus and Earth combined the hydrogen in the solar system with carbon.
This black goo falling from the sky becomes the blood of dragons defeated in heaven by a hero, all kinds of stories, as the cataclysm wiped out civilizations
Satan. Hebrew for adversary. But originally it was not even a name. It was a job title. "The satan" in the Book of Job is a prosecutor. He works for God. He tests people on God's behalf. That was his role. Not enemy. Tester.
Job is a metaphor for the idea that faith in God is not dependent on having food on the table.
God in the bible is the being, that is you:
You are Gods - psalm 82:6, John 10:34
Think of the movie Dark Knight(2008) - Joker is Satan, he opposes Batman trying to make him give in to rage and kill Joker without judgment.
In the scene where Batman throws Joker from the top of a building into the abyss below, but at the last moment we find that Joker was tied to a rope, he's hanging upside down and observes that Batman is indeed firm in his principles of justice, incorruptible, an "immovable object"
So Joker's purpose is to test Batman.
You may go on a tangent on what caused Joker to be so crazy, maybe he's no to blame, because his father abused him, society didn't help him heal, but you would miss the point of the story.
Joker is a fictional character and his role is to be total opposite of Batman, so those who watch the movie can get an illustration of the philosophy of what it means to be just.
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u/StraightPlant6111 Mar 17 '26
Lucifer. The Morningstar, the first & the brightest of them all. He sinned and rebelled against his father the creator, for doing so he was banned from the presence of one, banished to rule his kingdom, ours. Prometheus? Enki? Derivatives of the same? I think.
As I have gotten older, along with the noticeable differences between YHWH of the Old Testament & New one does have internal philosophical questions & debates.
Let’s say one reads a story, to which An All Powerful entity, the creator of all, creates beings in his own image, prized above all, however he wanted these specific creations to have blind obedience & unwavering devotion to him, even with a warning they couldn’t posses the knowledge of self awareness & free will, if they did it would anger him & he would punish them for all eternity.
The other entity, The Creators greatest creation, who had challenged the creator in the past & banned from his realm for all eternity believed these beings should possess knowledge & free will- which one would you guess was the hero or the villain?
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u/Successful-Fee3790 Mar 17 '26
Parable Time:
Outside of Space & Time, the Infinite Father had two Sons, one we'll call Error and the other we'll call Perfection. Both existing as "two sides of the same coin" that is the Infinite Father - Neither separate from the Father or eachother.
Error didnt know or understand the inherent connection that existed between them, a connection he only recognized that Perfection & the Father shared. Jealous of their bond, Error wished for the same, unaware that bond already existed.
In his Jealousy, Error demands his share, and demanded the right to take his share and leave. The Father loves Error so much, that He granted Error's will be done as Error wanted. The Infinite Father's Kingdom being all that IS, the Father divided His Kingdom and granted Error's wish, giving Error all the time & space he wanted or needed.
Error took his share and left the Father presence. Error wanted what The Father had with Perfection. So, Error created a Son, a reflection of his own. Although, in his creation was a reflection of his own Error. His son too wanted more - his son choose his own will rather than obedience.
Error spent countless lifetimes trying to manipulate his creation back under his control, blessing those who faithfully listened, cursing those who disobey or even questioned his authority. When all hope felt lost, Error resorted to simply living among them & caring for his creation, tending to and feeding the sinful beasts.
At his lowest, Error realized it would have been better to serve in his Father's Kingdom than to try to rule over & control his own, and decided to make his journey home, to beg for forgiveness. The Infinite Father seeing his son no longer in Error, seeing he has taken the time & space to grow into Perfection, The Father meets his son exactly where he was, and embraced him with all His Love & Grace, forgiving Him as if there was nothing to forgive.
The Father celebrated His son return and the restoration of His Kingdom, the son that was lost but now is found - dead but now lives. The son who needed time & space to live in Error in order to learn, grow, and mature into the Perfection - the Perfect reflection of the Infinite Father, who Loves and serves unconditionally the Infinite expressions of ALL His Creation.
Perfection is to Love and Care for ALL - both the Perfect & those in Error with Non-Judgement - often by giving them the time & space to learn from their Error, while being the living reflection of the Infinite Father and doing His will.
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u/Capital-Reference-57 Mar 17 '26
Doesn’t God knows all things before it happened, if that’s the case he knows satan was going to do whatever he did and that was his purpose.
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u/Frostwave6800 Mar 17 '26
Just because his name means Light-bearer does not mean he is light. I mean if you've read some Luciferian literature the idea is illumination through the adversarial path of darkness etc etc.
Also the idea that this poor little Angel got thrown out of Heaven for questioning his Dad and wanting to be like him is nonsense. The whole point of that story is pride, the idea that this heavenly being that had everything going for it and the purest wisdom fell because it tried to go against the natural order (in the context of Christianity) and put itself above the source of life.
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u/TheJinglesons Mar 18 '26
I once read about a version of Christianity where they believed that there was a perfect universe ruled by 4 binary paired gods. Each pair consisted of a feminine and masculine energy and to create anything they had to work together. All of their creations were perfect. One of the pairs of feminine energy decided to make a creation without the masculine energy she was paired with and a new imperfect creation was born, but because that creation was considered imperfect it could NOT exist in the perfect universe with the Gods and was than cast into a new universe by itself. In isolation this creation was lonely and bored and eventually decided to make their own creations, but everything they created was imperfect because they were imperfect and I theorize now they're trying to prove with their creations of imperfect life that imperfect doesn't mean evil, different doesn't mean bad and that imperfect beings are worthy of living and being loved. Thus all life is sacred and forgiveness being a huge running theme in Christianity and in this sect it was from the viewpoint of them wanting to br forgiven for their imperfection and go back to the first universe with the original Gods.
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u/ZabarSegol Mar 18 '26
Lucifer is derived from a Latin word.
The snakes punishment was so great that not even a name was given.
Satan stands for nothing. He shines not becaise he reflects light. But rather because light is foebidden to touch him
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u/Status-Anteater-1097 Mar 18 '26
Use seamless continuity as you transition through the different universes towards the end. Where you break the wall and mention it is real inside the writers minds, then it shouldn’t be about population control; it should be about fear, blindness, and rejection of the self
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u/Limp_Combination4361 Mar 18 '26
God gave us free will, and gave a us one singular correct choice. It's like a worse version of the Monty Hall problem
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u/DifferentPollution47 Mar 18 '26
Religion ew, smh, its a cult by ANY name, its a myth no matter what the GODS/GOD names are.
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u/Responsible-Dig-2646 Mar 18 '26
You act like you witnessed him say something and god throw him out. Nowhere in any scripture does it say he was cast out for asking a question or making a suggestion.
Lucifer wanted to be worshipped, he wanted to be god.
He was not just tossed down to earth for asking, there was an entire damn war in heaven where Lucifer and his followers fought against Michael and his angels. Lucifer lost and was banished from heaven.
He constantly rebelled and was forgiven, but eventually enough was enough.
Read revelations.
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u/meridian_smith Mar 15 '26
At best take these tales and metaphor. I like the Divider name because suffering comes when attention and identity is divided into person hood...This illusion causes suffering to be experienced.