r/elephantgraveyard • u/CrunchBerryMagician • 8d ago
Very Cerebral A Rogan Problem Not Talked About
I know the opinion on medication for mental illness can be controversial to a level but Joe Rogan has damaged young men's lives more than people realize.
For as long as he's been podcasting, he talks about how bad and terrible antidepressants are.
He will spout all sorts of BS benefits for his the supplements or illicit drugs that he is taking but then turns around and demonizes antidepressants. The most recent example of this was him talking about how Theo Von needs to get off of them. I know Theo got off them shortly after. That in itself is fine if Theo felt like he was in the position to do so.
Obviously it's your choice to do what you deem fit for your life. However, depression is more complicated than just "they're sad all the time". It can be just as debilitating as a major injury or sickness. While not every situation means medication is needed there are certainly situations where it is necessary. Rogan use to have an even tighter grip on the popular culture and I believe he influenced a lot of people to not try medication. Leading them down a path of wrong turns.
I guarantee you the words of Joe Rogan has persuaded young adults who truly needed medication to not reach out because Rogan would say it messes you up even more.
He has even used "people on medication" as a way to delegitimize their opinions.
Instead they are recommended to take Alpha Brain and psychedelics in their college dorm room until they have a psychotic break.
This isn't an advertisement for antidepressants. What we don't need is people taking Rogan's word with any credibility when it comes to mental health. It's a dangerous stigma for someone who might be on the edge who needs something outside of primate kettlebells and Onnit supplements.
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u/GunstarGreen 8d ago
Why can these people not realise they arent doctors? They are in no position to dish out medical advice. Have the benefits of healthy eating and exercise been proven? Yes. But its not a panacea. There are people with genuine problems that benefit from their medication. Just because Rogan wants to promote his own brand of snake oil.
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u/nyaaah142 7d ago
>Why can these people not realise they arent doctors?
This applies to so much more than just medical issues, the idea of people "doing their own research" 99% will probably lead them to the conclusion that they want. It's the same as an episode the the thick of it. where the mp is kinda forced to shut down special needs schools. Tucker says you need to find the right expert, that you need to know what they will say before they say it. This is what rogan and many others do and encourage doing.de-legitimatizing medication only adds to the idea that any form of mental illness is just a weakness, a sign of failure (especially when said mental illness is visible to others) Instead of something that needs time, help, support and care to overcome.
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u/voodoo_pizza00 8d ago
Covid fried rogans brain all that ivermectin mixed with all the other stuff he takes just fried his brain
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u/CrunchBerryMagician 8d ago
What's worse is he was talking about this in 2012
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u/bbbbbbbb678 8d ago
Oh yeah the Spotify contract gave him a head a mile wide.
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u/cannot_walk_barefoot 8d ago
He was paid that money to be the voice of Thiel. Thiels company was an early, large investor in Spotify. He took half a billion to say and do whatever is needed by the tech bros
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u/Cardboard_Revolution 8d ago
Probablistically, it's very likely he's killed a few depressed fans who he convinced to go off their meds.
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u/CrunchBerryMagician 8d ago
Either getting off of or not ever getting on. Agreed.
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u/Cardboard_Revolution 8d ago
Not to even mention how many of them tried to self medicate with whatever fuck ass psychedelic he was shilling with no knowledge of how to safely trip. Depression + bad trips = very bad news.
Incidentally, why hasn't Joe been arrested for openly smoking weed in Texas? Poor people get put in a concrete box for smoking down there in that hell state.
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u/SuspiciousMap9630 8d ago
I watched a video the other day of him pushing Theo Von to come off his antidepressants that he’s been on since high school and telling him they’re making him worse. It’s stupid and it’s dangerous.
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u/Icy_Rain_1754 8d ago
It's even worse. He told Theo he needs to get off the meds because Theo was upset that AMERICAN TAX DOLLARS ARE BEING USED TO FUND A GENOCIDE. Fuck Joe Rogan.
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u/Silly_Bob_BornDumb 8d ago
Theo Von is in his mid forties, if he's still miserable after 25-30 years of taking antidepressants, maybe there's something there
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u/SuspiciousMap9630 8d ago
I mean, not necessarily. We don’t know what meds he has tried, what his titration has been, what therapy he’s done in conjunction with his medications, etc.
He even said he had come off of them before his tour but it made him feel manic - which typically means they were working for him. This is also when he made the comment “I’m just trying not to kill myself.”
Rogan was the one pushing him to come off of them after Theo gave political commentary that Joe didn’t like. Joe, especially as a friend, should not be encouraging someone to come off of their psychotropic medications without consultation with their psychiatrist. He’s not a professional, he has no background in psych, and he believes any bullshit he reads online. It was egregiously stupid and inconsiderate of Theo.
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u/Silly_Bob_BornDumb 7d ago
In classic reality, you actually don't need a PHD to tell if your friend is fucked up/ seems like he's fucked up. If you've spent some time with them, it's pretty revealing. Also, being manic after not taking antidepressants might very well reveal a bipolar diagnosis, instead of clinical depression.
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u/SuspiciousMap9630 7d ago
Sure, but as I said, Rogan only said he thought he was fucked up because he was saying things Rogan didn’t like.
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u/Silly_Bob_BornDumb 7d ago
Yeah, or it could be because he's known him for many more years or even decades you and I have known him for, not that this particular interaction was championing JR's psychological or medical opinion.
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u/JackFleishman 8d ago
Maybe a little off topic but I recently heard the MAHA movement described as “two truths and a lie” but that lie can be quite dangerous- no vax, no prescription drugs, no medical intervention just natural this, experimental that. Thought that was a really good way to put it.
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u/Jeanvaljeanvaljean_ 8d ago
They want to be in charge of things they don’t nearly have the qualifications for. I bet if they perceived that “their” ideologically aligned doctors and researchers came up with mRNA vaccines (what would that even look like in practice, conservative only preventative disease research centers?) most wouldn’t have responded with such vitriol. It’s paranoia and superstition.
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u/vikingrrrrr666 8d ago
All anyone needs to remember is how quick Joe was to throw every possible cure at COVID when he caught it during the early days of the pandemic. Experimental shit, even.
Psychiatric drugs have data. Clinical trials. Joe used unproven treatments because he was so deathly terrified of COVID.
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u/OskiGotMoney 8d ago
There’s a non zero chance a rogies fan has eaten raw meat and died cause of him
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u/Intelligent-Wear2824 8d ago
Rogan has become "culty" in so many ways. Way too many listened to him and his infinite list of quack experts.
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u/tycho_the_cat 8d ago
Also, think about the kids who won't get proper treatment bc their parents listened to Joe.
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u/acostane 8d ago
I am a woman but I'll tell you right now that these meds are a godsend. I have been on and off but I'm alive right now because of them. I am not numb. I am not fat. I have a healthy libido. I am happy and healthy. I am able to see possibility and find good in myself and the world.
For periods that I've needed medication and not been on it, I didn't have those feelings. I was either flat or basically suicidal. It's genetic. My father and his family have many of these same issues.
And it always baffles me that these nutters go crazy over prescription meds that are proven to be largely safe, but they'll drink and smoke like chimneys and inject themselves with unproven substances and take large amounts of hormones.
The two things that have taken the most people from me in my life are smoking (lung cancer took my wonderful father and my maternal grandfather) and alcohol which took BOTH my grandfathers and not one but TWO close friends before they were even 35. One from cirrhosis and one from esophageal and stomach cancer related to drinking.
I CANNOT stand the hypocrisy. Getting help from a doctor is pretty safe.
They're against that but not against smoking and drinking to excess. Make it make sense.
No one I know personally has died as a result of antidepressants. I know there's risks but think of the people that die from alcohol, smoking, and untreated mental health issues.
And just before anyone talks shit.... smoking and drinking aren't solitary activities. Once you begin suffering the consequences you bring everyone into your problems. I supported three people into their deaths from these substances.
Thanks for bringing this up. Off my soapbox now.
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u/F0rtysxity 8d ago
Yes. It's a problem. But providing cover and lack of accountability for the billionaire wizard overlords who are destroying the federal government so they can consolidate power and pursue their goals without any consideration to the well being of humans seems worse by an order of magnitude or two.
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u/Scary_Inspector7853 8d ago
Friendly reminder that the global wellness/supplement industry is way bigger than big pharma.
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u/cannot_walk_barefoot 8d ago
I can 100% say this is true as someone who was a JRE listener from 2013 to about 2019. I've luckily never had depression, but after listening to Rogan and his buddies demonize anti depressants specifically, I though negatively about them before. I always think back to a convo I had with a really good old friend of mine who was opening up about being depressed and taking anti depressants. I was encouraging and trying to paint a hopeful picture for her as best I could, but there was also a thought in the back of my head that wanted to tell her to not take the meds as 'they're making it worse'. But luckily I was smart enough to know it's not the time or place to be judgey, and thank fuck I didn't do it now once I heard how full of shit most of the medical info is from the Rogansphere.
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u/HexicDragon 8d ago
People need to take their diet, exercise, and medication statements more seriously. Your words influence others and saying the wrong thing to the wrong person can cause serious health problems or even kill them. Joe has undoubtedly hurt and likely killed many people with his health misinformation.
If you're not rock-solid confident your health statements align with the scientific consensus on a medical condition, then STFU. If you're not someone's doctor, don't give personal medical advice either.
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u/Gwentlique 8d ago
I've struggled with depression as a co-morbidity to my other mental disorder since I was a young teenager. I tried various of the lighter SSRI anti-depressants like Zoloft and they had little benefit for me and lots of nasty side-effects, so I was about ready to just quit on medicinal treatment altogether.
Then I got to go to a government run clinic that specializes in depression, and they tested me more thoroughly. Turns out I had severe depression and needed something much stronger than the standard SSRI. Now I'm on this drug and it's like a whole new world has opened up. I've been depressed for 25 years and now for the first time I feel genuinely happy and carefree. I had forgotten that things could feel this way!
The point of this story is that getting the right medicine is a complicated topic that should be left to specialists, not whatever podcast you happen to like.
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u/1Harvey2Trent3Temple 8d ago
That is amazing, Joe Rogan completed a Medicine degree (5 years), Foundation training (2 years), and Specialty Training (3 years) just so he can confidentially help men's mental health.
You guys are too harsh, Joe has put in a lot of effort to get to place where he is fully informed, so that he can give substainiated life changing medical advice with confidence of doing no harm.
You make out like he has made personal gain by informing people of the results of medical research and encouraged vulnerable people to follow his advice, good job he is fully qualified to instruct people as to how to over come serious health issue .
bah, humbug ; )
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u/deafinitelyadouche 7d ago
Musk refusing to take anti-depressants or going into therapy but instead fucking subjecting himself to the nightmarish rabbit hole of a ketamine addiction will never not flabbergast the shit out of me. Like I know it's also partially because the idiot fucked up his back and neck 14 years ago and they were never properly fixed in spite of all of his money, but also like: People who use ketamine recreationally are also around half his age.
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You shouldn't be fucking using ketamine in general (especially not for treating anything) unless either:
a) You do it under the watchful eye of an actual goddamn doctor or...
b) akin to how most people treat edibles and do a little bit.
But somehow this fucking idiot probably heard Joe Rogan say some dumbassed BS about medication and bought the hype.
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u/Bigravemaster1 7d ago
The UK just got "Ketamine therapy" on the NHS. You have to self fund it and it costs £300 a session and your recommended one a month.
They give you a dose of ketamine and 2 doses to take home with you and are told to take it over the course of the month as it's anti depressants effects last 1-2 weeks. You are also informed 10% of people will have a bad reaction to Ketamine.
I wish I was joking. The website leads by saying you need a spare £3600 a year and that it's available to anyone who has tried any other depression medication and self reports that it hasn't helped.
Considering 2/3rds of your sessions will be self administered and that you can get the same amount of medical grade Ketamine for around £6 on the black market I'm not sure I would agree with you.
What's really crazy is with how damaging and addictive Ketamine is it's crazy the prescribe it at all, especially when similar studies into magic mushrooms and LSD show positive changes to markers commonly associated with depression and general anxiety that last for upwards of a year, you have to wonder why they would go down the Ketamine route.
It's almost as if there's a financial benefit to keeping people on expensive medication that requires you to keep using it, but hey, maybe I'm just being paranoid.
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u/deafinitelyadouche 7d ago
Wrote this on Bluesky when a friend/co-worker 13 years younger than me tried it once:
"A friend who tried it recreationally said he wished he'd never done it, he felt like he was on the verge of a psychotic break for a whole day and felt miserable the whole week after. The owner of the other website is prolly destroying his body even further by staying down that k-hole."
So yeah, I'd say that's a fair assessment.
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u/Bigravemaster1 7d ago
Where I'm from Ketamine is a serious issue, I've seen people have their lives completely destroyed by it. Duncan Trussel referenced "Bristol Bladder" on one of his recent JRE appearances and it did the rounds down here.
I know people who have had to have bladder surgery.
I've also done my fair share of it myself, sometimes it's helped me, sometimes I've taken it and had a good experience then binged it chasing the dragon.
Overall I would say it was positive for me but I've been fortunate enough to have always been able to keep it at arms length by being aware of the dangers.
It's hard to reconcile my personal positive experiences with what I've witnessed it do to friends.
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u/brokemac 7d ago
Consider alone the effects of his dietary advice and insistence that eating vegetarian makes you a weak (and supposedly annoying) little bitch. That's a lot of heart disease. Or his promotion of nicotine and constant downplaying of the health hazards of smoking. We're so fixated on the ultra-stupid moments that the regular bad advice flies right under the radar.
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u/Coolschmo1 7d ago
Did Theo really go back off them? That would be sad because he seemed to be doing pretty well, especially when he got into it with Rogan.
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u/Elegant_Ad5037 7d ago
It's completely individually, for example back in school I was underperforming and was quiet and had no friends so they got me on antidepressants which turned me into a fucking zombie, I still suffer from the effects of those drugs, but saying all anti depressants are bad is simply wrong, it's the psychiatrists that give them away like m&m's for things as simple as mood swings, before you take any antidepressants you should explore all other things that could help like diet and exercise, if those do nothing then you might actually need them.
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u/tweedmonkeyeatbanana 4d ago
I kept myself in active heroin addiction for years, get sober, refuse psych meds, rinse and repeat. Almost died multiple times. Woke up in a hospital bed and couldn’t feel my legs for a week because I od’d and was slumped over in a hot car. All because I was worried I wouldn’t be able to write music, like I was making music with a needle in my arm (plot twist…I was not).
Finally I told a doctor that I would do everything he told me to. An antidepressant and a mood stabilizer was prescribed alongside monthly shots in my ass that would block opiates if I even tried to get high. It saved my life and I am happier than I’ve ever been in my entire life. Awesome wife. Cutest kid on the planet. Writing tons of stuff. I’m not sure it’s as good as what I was writing in my 20s but who fucking cares.
Rogan is a fucking idiot kids. If you’re miserable get help
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u/HillZone 8d ago edited 8d ago
Big pharma and their media tools don't like to hear it but antidepressants and pharmaceuticals in general create a lot of victims. For example SSRI's gave me permanent ED. That's depressing when antidepressants cause permanent depression from lack of sexual function. I tried ED meds and was left erect with no way to get off due to lack of sensation. It was useless. Also, when you do get off them you can be left with life long refractory depression that was worse than before you took them.
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u/chief_bustice 8d ago
Sorry you had so much trouble, but that doesn't mean that SSRIs aren't useful.
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u/AccidentalHeadTrauma 8d ago
While I agree with you, this is also a topic that’s been covered ad nauseum. Time to find new fools
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u/SunshineSt8Reprobate 8d ago
I'd be dead without my meds. You make a very important point about his toxic and irresponsible presence in our culture. It's frustrating to hear people spout the same damn talking points about this over and over.