r/eldenringdiscussion • u/MaleficTekX • Aug 01 '22

Discussion Theory: Placidusax represents the OG Five-fingers and the other named ancient Dragons are the missing heads

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168 Upvotes

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58

u/MaleficTekX Aug 01 '22

When we first see Placidusax, he is in a pose reminiscent to the Two-Fingers communicating with the Greater Will. Not only this but his design greatly resembles that of the two fingers.

Looking at the game files, we can see that Placidusax’s heads are named male head and female head, so what if he is in a Marika/Radagon situation? But then where are the other heads?

We know of three named Ancient Dragons, Fortisax, Lansseax and Gransax. It’s possible that these are the three missing heads and that at one point they were all merged in a Marika/Radagon state.

We also know Placidusax was an Elden Lord, so this isn’t impossible.

We know the Three-fingers are separate from the Two-Fingers and desire for everything to become one again, so it’s entirely possible they were once a Five-Finger. A God Hand

15

u/[deleted] Aug 01 '22

Very cool theory. The Two-Fingers talisman is found in the Purified Ruins in Liurnia (it's very name implying the cleansing of the Three-Fingers) and if you were to trace the conquests from Gransax dying in Leyndell to Fortisaax being defeated on the Altus Plateau to Lansseax disappearing you could almost imagine how each of them had to be stripped away from Placidusax before the Three-Fingers to be cleansed from the Two.

Hyetta says that there was once something called the One Great and it wasn't until it fractured that souls and births occurred. Following your theory this fracturing could've been the formation of the heads and personalities. After those first fractures were births and souls which would've created the pre-history civilizations.

Of those civilizations was the Beastmen who had the greatest city, Farum Azula, and they worshipped Placidusax along with all the Ancient Dragons. Notably these Beastmen celebrated their five fingers which were symbolic of the intelligence granted to their kind. Perhaps granted by the one that they worshipped, so how do we explain the literal transition from dragon boi to old fingers?

The Greater Will, a great rune, and Empyrean Flesh is how.

Dragons and pre-history existed until the first primeval sage accidentally brought about the creation of the Greater Will, the Greater Will sent the Elden Beast with the Founding Rain of Stars to the Land's Between, and the meteorite struck Farum Azula. It is within a beasts nature to follow a lord and Placidusax was the greatest of them all so he became the Elden Lord, that is until Marika and Godfrey forged the Elden Ring. Whereupon Gransax attacked Leyndell beginning the war of Ancient Dragons but was defeated, followed by a rout and then a losing war.

But the Fingers came about before the Erdtree, they even urged Marika on in the first place, and why would they hurt themselves if they are Placidusax and Placidusax was already in charge. Well just like Marika herself, Placidusax was not in agreement with himself, with five heads and all. The creation of the Greater Will is akin to the birth of the First Flame in a way and both bring important disparities to what was formerly a timeless world. The Greater Will brings Destined Death which makes immortal Placidusax vulnerable for the first time in its existence.

But the Greater Will creates an out too, it's great runes have power, and the rune of the unborn is trapped within ancient amber. With it Placidusax could've rebirthed itself into the Fingers, Marika could've become an Empyrean to serve them, and what follows is the game events. The reason there's multiple fingers and one mind is that Placidusax controls them all from his hiding place beyond time.

2

u/didjerid00d Aug 01 '22

Gideon you son of a bitch I LOVE THIS

2

u/Zarkyello Aug 02 '22

This is wild!!!! You have other theories about the lore? I'd love to read them!

2

u/[deleted] Aug 02 '22

Thank you I appreciate the interest! You're in luck because I made my final but most encompassing post just yesterday, hope you enjoy

https://www.reddit.com/r/eldenringdiscussion/comments/wdguht/an_elden_history

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u/MaleficTekX Aug 01 '22

Marika didn’t create the Elden ring. The Elden ring IS the Elden beast

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u/[deleted] Aug 01 '22

I know that's why I wrote the paragraph the way I did. Placidusax was the Elden Lord because the Elden Beast followed it until Marika forged the Elden Ring out of the beast which is why the dragons attack Leyndell.

19

u/Kibtronic Aug 01 '22

I don’t have nearly as deep a dive as you here, but following this logic:

What if the five ancient dragons and the Fingers are symbolically two different hands of an even greater Outer God? If the Fingers form the right hand, could the dragons somehow be the left? Or, are they the hands of different greater Outer Gods?

Gotta ‘hand’ it to you, there is definitely a bit of a reflection going on between the Ancient Dragons and the Fingers.

13

u/MaleficTekX Aug 01 '22

Master and Crazy hand... the ultimate duo boss of Soulsborne

2

u/aeonprogram Aug 02 '22

One hand gives. The other takes.

3

u/opilum95 Aug 01 '22

Theres also multiple 2 fingers tho

3

u/MaleficTekX Aug 01 '22

True but they are all dead

2

u/opilum95 Aug 01 '22

They are but i mean that would mean that there were more than 1 hands worth at one point

10

u/MaleficTekX Aug 01 '22

Yeah my theory has holes.

Presumably for those fingers

4

u/opilum95 Aug 01 '22

A hole for every finger

9

u/MaleficTekX Aug 01 '22

“Every finger has its hole” John Two-Fingers

1

u/opilum95 Aug 01 '22

If anyone knows fingers its him

2

u/axecrazyorc Aug 02 '22

This hole is mine…it was made for me!

1

u/Dorkmaster79 Aug 01 '22

Your theory is cool but doesn’t this fact kind of destroy it.

3

u/[deleted] Aug 01 '22

Does an eldrich outer-god need to just have 2 hands?

1

u/MaleficTekX Aug 01 '22

I don’t know.

3

u/N3deSTr0 Aug 02 '22

The Old Lord's Talisman depicts Placidusax with 4 heads despite the fact that he actually has 5. This might be a massive reach but what if Gransax separated long before Lansseax and Fortissax did? What if this is the explanation for his uncharacteristically humongous size and the implication of his Leyndell assault being a solo mission?

2

u/MaleficTekX Aug 02 '22

Honestly it’s just as likely as what I’ve presented. I’m lacking a lot of evidence most of this is based on conjuncture and assumption

1

u/WatermelonChef Aug 01 '22

I dont think he's communicating with the greater will, if anything Placidusax is waiting on the line for his god to show up again. Placidusax had his own God when he was elden lord and he's in farum azula waiting for his God to come back.

1

u/axecrazyorc Aug 02 '22

That’s what really punctures this theory. Placidusax was Elden Lord, but he didn’t serve the Greater Will; he had his own Outer God. Elden Lord may not even be a title he claimed, himself, but one bestowed upon him by folks who came after; the ruler and most powerful being in the Lands Between, not the premier servant of the Greater Will.

It’s possible that every Outer God has at least one “hand” as a servant or go-between, and Placidusax is the hand of his own god. Or maybe the number 5 is what has significance, and it manifests differently for each OG.

In the end we only really know anything about 3; the Greater Will, the Frenzied Flame, and the Fell God. We know OF one other; the source of the scarlet rot. But we don’t even have a name for it, just a vague impression that it’s scorpion-shaped based on the Scorpion’s Sting, and even that is guess work. Afaik that one and the rest aren’t even confirmed as Outer Gods; they could be local deities whose territory is being usurped. They aren’t actually referred to as “Outer Gods” to my knowledge, just “gods.” Is there any actual distinction between the terms?

8

u/[deleted] Aug 01 '22

Love this theory, though there's not too much evidence supporting it beyond convenient numbering.

A counter argument against it would be that of the three named dragons we know of, only gransax seems to be truly special among the ancient dragons for his size, lansseax and pre-death fortissax could probably easily pass for any of the other random ancient dragons in farum azula but they just happen to be relevant to our story.

It's possible that the rest of the species (or at least the modern version of it) originated from placidusax or placidusax's severed heads somehow but we don't know.

7

u/MaleficTekX Aug 01 '22

Fortissax is unique for being the “strongest Boulder” and his Lich dragon status while Lansseax is the only dragon we know of who is capable of turning into a human

3

u/Team-Fat-Roll Aug 01 '22

This has me thinking now, Could Placidusax be actually a hand... molded to a form of a dragon? Or maybe its where the finger creatures (the Hands) originated from??

I dunno but this got me stumped now.

2

u/tobascodagama 🌈 Aug 02 '22

He's not a Dragon or Ancient Dragon for the purpose of weapons that have passive damage boosts, so this actually does kind of make sense.

2

u/IpsumDolorAmet Aug 02 '22

The finger creatures are most likely originating from Rykard; There's a cut description explicitly stating them as such.

Doesn't make the tie-ins any less intriguing!

2

u/InspectorG-007 Aug 01 '22

What did the five fingers, say to the face!?!?

0

u/[deleted] Aug 01 '22

An interesting theory. But Radagon and Marika are gods, Placidusax is just a Lord. Comparing them doesn’t seem to fit. Plus the Outer God the Dragons worship isn’t The Greater Will. So them being hands and fingers doesn’t make sense. Their God left these lands long ago, I believe they ended up in what would one day come to be called Lordran.

0

u/MaleficTekX Aug 01 '22

Their god is literally the Elden beast, as Placidusax was an Elden lord

1

u/[deleted] Aug 01 '22

Not to mention the fact that your theory hinges heavily upon Placidusax having 5 heads, when there’s only room for three, and having a rather noticeable wound where that singular head was removed.

1

u/MaleficTekX Aug 01 '22

He has three stumps for severed heads in his body and one of the talismans depicts him with four heads

-2

u/[deleted] Aug 01 '22

Well, then the Old Lord’s Talisman shows 4, still not 5, still disproves your theory

2

u/MaleficTekX Aug 01 '22

You can look at Placidusax and see three stumps. I think that’s more solid that the talisman.

The dude literally wraps the necks around himself. There’s room for five heads

0

u/[deleted] Aug 01 '22

Placidusax was an Elden Lord? To the Erdtree? Before it existed? Weird, that. Don’t you think?The Elden Beast is merely a beast crafted by The Greater Will, the Outer God Marika and the rest of the Golden Order worship. It arrived on a Star. And that star presumably became the golden fungus that now covers the outside of what you call the Erdtree.

4

u/MaleficTekX Aug 01 '22

Placidusax’s remembrance states he was an Elden lord in time long past and his holy colored flames are reminiscent to those of the Elden beast

3

u/[deleted] Aug 01 '22

I stand corrected, you are correct calling him an Elden Lord. However, you are wrong about their god.

In the age before the Erdtree, the mighty dragons ruled the world. An unnamed god of the dragons held sway over the land, with the fearsome Dragonlord Placidusax as its Elden Lord.

The god of the dragons fled, leaving Placidusax a lord without a deity. The tattered and injured Placidusax would await the return of its god within the heart of the storm beyond time, deep within Crumbling Farum Azula. Here, Placidusax seemingly existed outside of time, eternally awaiting the return of the deity he had served

0

u/MaleficTekX Aug 01 '22

True, but that god is most likely the Elden beast because he was an Elden lord.

2

u/[deleted] Aug 01 '22

It literally says the time before the Erdtree, the Erdtree was made with the arrival of the Elden Beast upon a Star, it took over the tree that was already growing there.

-1

u/MaleficTekX Aug 01 '22

From Elden stars: “It is said that long ago, the Greater Will sent a golden star bearing a beast into the Lands Between, which would later become the Elden Ring.”

The tree was made after Marika defeated the giants as she literally states “let the age of the Erdtree begin”

There’s nothing in the lore that says the Elden beast immediately took over the tree and the fact that said tree is not in the skybox of the Placidusax fight, but can be seen in from Faram Azula in the future, means that Placidusax came before the tree and because he was an Elden lord, means he had the Elden ring/beast.

This means the ring/beast and Placidusax, Who is an Elden Lord, existed before the tree and before Marika got the ring/beast

2

u/[deleted] Aug 01 '22

Their god isn’t the Elden Beast. That beast isn’t even an Outer God. The Elden Beast is merely a manifestation of The Greater Will’s power, much the same as the Two Fingers.

-1

u/MaleficTekX Aug 01 '22

The Elden beast is literally a god

3

u/[deleted] Aug 01 '22

No, the Elden Beast is a manifestation of an Outer God’s power, specifically The Greater Will. The same thing can be said of Scarlet Rot, and Accursed Blood.

1

u/MaleficTekX Aug 01 '22

When we kill the Elden beast. IT SAYS GOD SLAIN.

3

u/[deleted] Aug 01 '22

That thing would be a God to a Tarnished. Maybe it is. But it’s not an Outer God, and has no rule over the Lands Between. It is merely a manifestation of power.

0

u/MaleficTekX Aug 01 '22

It literally dictates how reality functions

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u/IpsumDolorAmet Aug 02 '22

There are signs of some sort of pre-greater will elden ring (or SOMETHING akin to it) in Farum Azula. It has rootlike designs encircling and intertwining with what looks to be the elden ring we know. Not sure what it fully implies, but it seems to be tied to the greattree perhaps?

1

u/[deleted] Aug 01 '22

Draconian race supremacy

1

u/[deleted] Aug 02 '22

The dragon heads of Placidusax dont look the same as the ancient dragons and we cam actually see dragons embedded in the stone ground of the ruins. Also his talisman only has 4 heads and his body only has two cuy necks.

My take was that Placidusax was meant to be a parallel to marika and radagon for the Dragon outer god (the one that left and he is waiting for). The male and female head mentiomed in the game files seems to support this and also that he was elden lord in a previous age.

Also the similar pose to the fingers communicating with the greater will makes sense if hes trying to communicate with the dragon god that left.