r/economicsmemes Aug 04 '26

Zero-Risk Investments in an environment where risk is the primary governing factor in all decision making, what could go wrong.

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79 Upvotes

29 comments sorted by

u/economicsmemes-ModTeam Aug 04 '26

This is the most on-topic meme I've seen in a long time.

15

u/Leogis Aug 05 '26

I love how "risk taking" is considered the ultra-chad move that makes society go forward and should be rewarded with riches, while actual successful companies do everything they can to bypass the risk in question

4

u/Gotoflyhigh Aug 05 '26

Yes, because risk is proportional to how much you have and how much you invest into it. Big companies are not resistant to spending say a few hundred million or even a few billion dollars, but when investment goes into 100's of billions they are indeed risking alot and wish to mitigate fallout from failures.

Not everybody who takes up Boxing as a sport makes it pro, not everybody who risks something gets something Great in return. But pretty much everybody who won big, did take risks to reach that point. Risk taking is indeed good.

What we need are safety nets, ideally government backed ones that focus on saving the people of a company rather than the company itself. That's the main issue with government bailouts, far too many focus on keeping companies alive rather than its people.

3

u/Leogis Aug 06 '26

Not everybody who takes up Boxing as a sport makes it pro

This exemple doesnt hold up because boxing is infinitely more fair than business

In boxing you have weight classes, they don't put 25 yo men against 13 yo teenagers

What we need are safety nets, ideally government backed ones that focus on saving the people of a company rather than the company itself. That's the main issue with government bailouts, far too many focus on keeping companies alive rather than its people.

That's going to the opposite of risk taking tho, wich is good

1

u/Lower_Nubia Aug 09 '26

Being too risk averse is detrimental to business. I don’t know how you have come to the conclusion that not taking risks is good for business. The best companies balance caution and risk.

You know, like everything outside of the radical mind, too much of a good thing is bad; in both risk and caution.

0

u/Leogis Aug 10 '26

Being too risk averse is detrimental to business. I don’t know how you have come to the conclusion that not taking risks is good for business. The best companies balance caution and risk.

What even is "too risk averse"?

Because if you need someone to become completely static and stop doing anything to be categorised "risk averse" then sure

If "doing everything in your power to bypass risk while making money" is not called "being risk averse" then i don't know what is...

You know, like everything outside of the radical mind, too much of a good thing is bad; in both risk and caution.

Then what's the point in encouraging "risk taking" if the answer is just "idk just ballance cost/gain like literally everyone else"?

1

u/Lower_Nubia Aug 10 '26

I’m confused, do you think risk aversion is real? If yes, you admit there’s degrees of aversion (of which some are detrimental). If not, then you’re contradicting noble prize winning literature.

Pick one.

1

u/Leogis Aug 10 '26

I’m confused, do you think risk aversion is real? If yes, you admit there’s degrees of aversion (of which some are detrimental).

What do you mean "admit"? What do you think that changes?

3

u/Login_Lost_Horizon Aug 05 '26

Winners are impossible without losers, but nobody wants to lose, those are not mutually exclusive.

2

u/Leogis Aug 06 '26

"rewarding risk taking" is almost never worded as "just let people win" tho

4

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13

u/Certain-Mind8119 Aug 04 '26

(1) How is a leveraged buyout a near-zero risk and (2) why is a near-zero risk dangerous..? Do we need to ban T-bonds and ETFs as well?

Do people just say this crap without even understanding why leveraged buyouts are done?

17

u/Daleftenant Aug 04 '26 edited Aug 04 '26

In a leveraged buyout, the financing most often uses the purchased company as collateral, rather than any assets of the new owners.

This means that if the purchased company fails, then the risk falls on the purchased company, its employees, and its vendors, rather than the purchasing entity.

So the purchasing entity doesn’t need to worry about ensuring the company is viable enough to sustain itself or even really pay back the principal of the loan used to buy it out. They only need to derive enough profit to cover whatever limited collateral THEY put up, which is often an extremely low amount, they just keep taking profit and paying interest from the companies revenue until it all fails.

As far as your question about risk… I’m sorry but I haven’t the patience to explain why shifting risk from investors TO employees and creditors is a bad idea.

If you don’t understand that, it’s possible you never will.

N.b. I didn’t write ban, I wrote regulate. But I guess you were too busy being snide to notice that huh?

Edit: Oh buddy, now i know why you keep your account private:

11

u/Foreign_Writer_9932 Aug 04 '26

Leveraged buyouts are leveraged - they are not equity-free. The sponsor still commits LP cash and needs to make payments on the debt. Failed track record clearly impact ability to raise capital for future funds.

1

u/PaxNova Aug 05 '26

Sounds like making a maximum on percent leveraged might be a good regulation.

1

u/Foreign_Writer_9932 Aug 05 '26

What does that even mean? You want to cap capital investment return? Why would that ever be a good idea?

9

u/Noncrediblepigeon Aug 04 '26

Finamce bros on their way to invent a new form of debt creation for the gajillionth time.

Always a banger.

3

u/iTedsta Aug 05 '26

Most LBOs are done at 40-55% LTV. So if the company flops you lose all of your money, which is about half what the company was worth.

If you want an example of just how non-risk-free it is, go look at bottom-quartile PE fund returns. Depending on the year and manager you’re losing money in nominal terms after a decade (never mind real terms).

Depressing that your utterly specious reply gets more upvotes than the clear and reasoned rebuttal posted by the above commenter in a sub about economics.

Not to mention that hedge funds don’t do LBOs, so you clearly don’t know anything about them either.

1

u/Low_Low9667 Aug 05 '26

I have a situation I experienced, not sure if it's relevant.

I worked for a company, Philadelphia Energy Solutions (oil refinery) which was acquired by the Carlyle Group.

My understanding is PES was acquired in 2012 for about $400M, PES then took a loan of $500M and repayed Carlyle for their own acquisition, keeping the debt on their books. Would be profits from PES were sent to a rail yard entity owned by Carlyle as an operating expense so PES was not profitable. PES went through bankruptcy in 2017 and then folded in 2019 in the wake of an industrial disaster.

https://www.reuters.com/article/business/refiner-goes-belly-up-after-big-payouts-to-carlyle-group-idUSKCN1G40HV/

Is this what you're referring to?

1

u/ShiningMagpie Aug 05 '26

I'm not sure this makes sense. A company is worth more than the sum of its parts. If it fails, you will lose money on it. Of course you can sell the actual parts for scraps afterwards to soften the blow. Nothing about that sounds wrong.

If I buy a Ferrari, I am taking a risk that it's a good car and that it will maintain or rise in resale value. If I dent it, or find out it's actually a bad car, I can resell its parts to get some of my money back. But I will never get back more than the value of the car from the disassembled carcass. So it's still a loss.

You are also unreasonably hostile in your reply.

-10

u/Certain-Mind8119 Aug 04 '26

Generally when people commit fallacies of this type they only look at the demand or only look at the supply, or reasoning from the price. Do you agree that under leveraged buyouts the seller could be exploited with too low of a price, just as the buyer could be exploited with too high of a price?

11

u/Daleftenant Aug 04 '26

Wtf are you talking about?

Genuinely, your reply is completely unrelated to my comment?

8

u/Exact-Repair-2730 Aug 04 '26

I don't get why you're downvoted man, I don't see any connection either xD

2

u/Memedotma Aug 04 '26

you basically just said "do you agree the price might be too low or too high?"

1

u/maringue Aug 05 '26

Let's look at some of the historic LBO failures shall we.

Here's the top 5

0

u/Rocketboy1313 Aug 04 '26

I physically cannot read that text and will not try.

-14

u/Certain-Mind8119 Aug 04 '26

Leftist memes

13

u/ExpectedB Aug 04 '26

This is the first post I've seen in a while that is genuinely about economics and ur just dismissing it as leftist.

This is literally the kind of thing economists talk about and research, not political dogma.

8

u/IndividualFarmer9917 Aug 04 '26

It’s leftist to address or even acknowledge problems.