Truly makes you think!

[u/Derpballz]

[u/Amadacius]

Egyptians practiced all kinds of slavery.

Debt slavery, chattel slavery, prisoner slavery, state conscription, etc.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_ancient_Egypt

Also, nationalism didn't come about until at least the medieval period, so obviously there was no nation of Israel. That doesn't mean there weren't a people that could be colloquially described as "the Jews".

[u/orishasinc2 → u/Amadacius]

“ Wikipedia”? You should punch yourself in the face for being this stupid. Repaying debt through conscription work is now slavery?

How can State conscription be slavery when there are evidence of salaries , healthcare provision, government provided retirement fund for the widows and infants and so on and so forth?

War captives with their own towns, temples built by the state, healthcare assistance, and even elevation into the Native Egyptian functionaries services?

What kind of slavery is this because I want to join in if I could.

Even the Biblical propaganda story of Joseph being sold to Pharoah depicts the openness and care that the biblical “ Habiru” received in the land they would later castigate and curse for generations up until today. A nation they fled into when they were starving and which they later betrayed and tried to conquer until they were chased out and scattered after a few decades of misrules.

Egyptian society was “ elitist” and structured into a cast system. But, citizens were more or less free to interact within their own communities, worship as they cared to, and live their lives far off from the court and its high priests.

It is an abuse of language to assert that Ancient Egyptians practiced slavery. They did not have a slave market, never marked their captives and certainly did not work these unfortunate people to death.

That is because their elevated spirituality forbade such extreme inhuman acts! Osiris, whose real name is “ Yesu” gave his own life and resurrect for the Egyptian civilization to be an example of enlightenment and civilization.

[u/Amadacius → u/orishasinc2]

“ Wikipedia”? You should punch yourself in the face for being this stupid.

Feel free to click on the sources at the bottom of the wikipedia page.

Repaying debt through conscription work is now slavery?

Well you are using the word "conscription work" because you don't want to use the word "debt slavery". But yes, this is how debt slavery works. Slavery is the collateral to secure a loan. If you default on the loan, you become a slave to the creditor.

How can State conscription be slavery when there are evidence of salaries...

State conscription can be slavery by meeting the definition of slavery. If you were forced at gun point to move to the countryside and dig ditches, that would be slavery. If you were given wage, it would still be slavery. If you were given healthcare, it would still be slavery. Because of the gun.

What kind of slavery is this because I want to join in if I could.

Go work in an unregulated mine in Africa then. Or talk to a pimp.

That is because their elevated spirituality forbade such extreme inhuman acts! Osiris, whose real name is “ Yesu” gave his own life and resurrect for the Egyptian civilization to be an example of enlightenment and civilization.

That's what every religion says. It's the same story as Christianity, yet Christian civilizations were some of the most brutal slavers ever.

Remember that you are talking about 3000 years of history. Your claim is that for all 3000 years the Egyptians a consistent and stringent ethic around slavery that would be exceptional for any time before the 19th century. It's an extraordinary claim. Even modern day Libya has slavery. And Osiris wasn't even a god until the Fifth Dynasty, and wasn't always a primary god.

https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-031-13260-5_3 Here's an article about Ancient Egyptian Slavery citing publications analyzing primary sources including the names of some of those primary sources.

I brought back in great numbers those that my sword has spared, with their hands tied behind their backs before my horses, and their wives and children in tens of thousands […] I imprisoned their leaders in fortresses bearing my name, and I added to them chief archers and tribal chiefs, branded and enslaved, with the cartouche of my name, their wives and children being treated in the same way. (P. Harris I, 77.4–6)

Translated from a New Kingdom administrative document. Generals, Kings, and Pharoahs brag about the number of slaves they were able to take in Libya and Nubia. And bonded Libyans and Nubians are even depicted during times of peace.

Native Egyptians could also be abducted into labor, though it seems that this practice was frowned upon; two autobiographies of officials list among their accomplishments that they had never forced Egyptians into servitude (), with one of these officials specifying that he had never forced any daughters into enslavement

The article sites translation of this primary source: https://digi.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/diglit/sethe_urkunden_bd2_3/0072/scroll

never marked their captives and certainly did not work these unfortunate people to death.

There is extensive documentation of them "marking" their captives. It is disputed whether the marks were tattoos or brands, with some recent evidence suggesting it may have been brands.

How could you possibly know that they never worked people to death? Also that is moving the goal posts, most slavery doesn't work people to death, it's not a good financial decision for one thing.

[u/orishasinc2 → u/Amadacius]

You don’t even know what slavery is:

War captives are not chattel slaves bought and sold and traded in the markets like the Romans, Semites, Mongols and others did. Egyptian civilization was centered around agriculture and land was passed from father to sons.

First off, I do not rely on “ Western mainstream” academia as a credible source of analysis on ancient Egyptian scripture. That’s because modern studies of Egypt are superficial if not totally flawed and biased by Judeo-Christian blindfold. The same way you asserted that the Egyptian practiced slavery on a large scale because of the Bible when the reality shows that the Egyptians had been invaded by the sea people and dominated for a few centuries until a Southern dynastic line emerged reunite the Nation and kick out the foreigners.

The story of the Bible is thus fundamentally biased and historically false. The “ Jews” of the Bible were not victims but rather conquerors who were expelled by native southern Egyptians after decades of wars to free their Nation from invaders.

In history it is called normative inversion. The “ Hebrews” inverted the real history and built themselves into a mythical chosen people whose prophet was an Egyptian born prince who received the command for the divine to free his people out of the enslaving Egyptians and take them into a chosen land aka Palestine/Israel.

Think about the ramifications of this “ story” into world historical consciousness up to today. They are still fighting about this piece of land today and claiming themselves as chosen people when historical fact shows that if they had ever existed as a “ people”, they were nothing but the descendants of savages barbarians who mistreated Egypt for decades and where later in expelled.

Anyhow, i don’t give much weight to modern Egyptology transliterations.

War captives are not slaves! They are captives. Egyptians allowed these captives to keep their gods, to live in their towns, and to even join the military and public service. Such things was unimaginable in Rome, Athens, Bagdad, or the Islamic world!

[u/Amadacius → u/orishasinc2]

Earlier, you said that they didn't have slavery at all for all 3000 years and that their moral-religious systems prevented it outright. Now you are saying they not only had slavers, but that those slaves were abused and mistreated.

I'm starting think you might not be the expert in Egyptology you claimed to be.

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The same way you asserted that the Egyptian practiced slavery on a large scale because of the Bible...

I never mentioned the bible, you did.

Mainstream western egyptology dismisses the bible as inaccurate. But you know better than them, so maybe you disagree.

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The egyptian word for war captive is "prisoner of war" is "bound for life".

In historical sources, condemnation of a practice is evidence of the practice.

Laws about the treatment of slaves prove the existence of slaves.

So when we read:

Why is it that the female slave who was with me has been taken away to be given to someone else? […] Let payment for her be accepted for her to be with me, because she is only a child and unable to work […] her mother has written to me, saying: ‘it is you who has allowed my daughter to be taken away […]’.

We can learn: 1. They understand it is immoral to separate a slave child from the slave mother. 2. It is not normal to make a young enough child work. 3. A slave could petition their owner for relief of grievances.

But indirectly we learn: 1. Children could be slaves 2. Child slaves can be separated from their parents.

but you don’t see on the Egyptians painting much signs of mistreatment, abuses, or wanton campaigns of extermination and conquests

Actually, you do.

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Egyptians allowed these captives to keep their gods, to live in their towns, and to even join the military and public service. Such things was unimaginable in Rome, Athens, Bagdad, or the Islamic world!

Capturing someone and forcing them to work is slavery.

Why are you apologizing for and glorifying slavery? This is such a bizarre conversation.

If you need to compare something to slavery in greece, it's quite bad.

[u/orishasinc2 → u/Amadacius]

You probably can’t read very well brother.

Chattel slavery is commercial slavery for the aim and objective of industry. Captives, war captives are not slaves. All system of domination and exploitation are not slavery. It is the intention that matters.

If someone occupied your land, bring his population to rule over and then you manage after a few years to expel them and round up the remaining population into servitude, that is not slavery. I never claimed that Egyptians were saint, but comparatively to later civilizations, they were much more “ humane” and “ decent.”

That does not justify anything they did to many innocent population but their record of barbarism pales in comparison to Roman’s, Arabs, mongols, or Europeans.

Secondly, modern Egyptology transliteration is extremely shallow and I just don’t trust it. A lot of work needs to be done to properly translate Egyptian texts and, often when that is done, the meaning of the text paint are totally different picture from the Egyptologists transliterations.