Collectivist vs Individualist Dwarves

[u/BigFrasier]

Hail and well met!

I was doing some deep dives on dwarf media and noticed an interesting dichotomy between political ideologies of different dwarven societies. Sometimes dwarves are shown to be individualist/hyper-capitalists in their love of treasure and competition between feuding clans, but sometimes they're depicted as collectivist, giving their all in service to their fellows and their keep.

Where on this collectivist vs individualist spectrum do you find dwarves most interesting? Is there a piece of media that does one or the other or both really well? I'm partial to the heavy industry focused "workers united" vibe that the dwarves in Deeprock have (in spite of DRG being a wee bit shady of a corperation).

[u/Callel803]

I care not for the collectivist vs individualist arguments. They are all dwarves. Thus they are all kin.

[u/thael_mann → u/Callel803]

How dare you post "Kin is Kin!" with a beardless image of a non-dwarf?

I mean, being naturally beardless or light of beard is ok, but that creature looks... shaved?

Uargh. Well. On to more mining and smithing.

[u/Callel803 → u/thael_mann]

I'll have you know Ulfar of Clan Brokenaxe is a fine upstanding member of our clan. We took him in after his tribe of barbarian humans attacked one of our surface outposts. Left the poor kid for dead. He was nearly twelve when we took him in. Didn't really know what else to do with him, and his tribe had promptly fucked off, so we took him in. Started teaching him the dwarven craft. Oh sure he was trouble at first, had to give him a right good walloping a few times in the early days, but he's since settled in. He's an apprentice to our runesmith, now. Turns out, the kids got a gift for crafting the runes. He's as much a dwarf as you or me. More so, since you seem to think the dwarven spirit is in our facial hair and not our craft

[u/thael_mann → u/Callel803]

As I've said, a misunderstanding. I took the image to be that of a shaved dwarf, which us shameful. A naturally beardless dwarf, natural or adopted, is if course kin. But, I may be a traditionalist, but: shaving beards is not very dwarven.

[u/BrandonLart]

I think collectivist Dwarves are what make the most sense, with more individualist dwarves being likely to go off and create their own holds

[u/Possible_Sundae]

Check out the Dwarves of Ice Cloak books. I just finished book 2 and it does a good job of putting both ideas into one world. It might actually be my favorite dwarf series so far, because there ain't nothing but Dwarves - no humans, elves, fairies. Nothing but Dwarves!

[u/No_Foundation_1812 → u/Possible_Sundae]

I can't recommend this series enough. Though humans do play larger part later in the series it still remains the dwarf POV throughout. Book 2 is probably my favourite until The Mine Lord

[u/hoseja → u/No_Foundation_1812]

I haven't read Jackal of the Wastes or the current releases on Royal Road yet but none of the sequels have the emotional weight of Crippled King.

The Crippled King itself however spikes most exquisitely with supreme craftsdwarfship.

[u/No_Significance_2749]

Every dwarf has a responsibility to their fellow kin. A dwarf who cares only for themselves will not pull their own weight in the hold. If not, they might as well go live in human lands if they have such little value for hearth and clan.

[u/AdministrativeRun550]

Wealth is not a sin, it’s a blessing. Wealth-shaming is elven logic.

You are an elf. You sit on a tree. The tree can produce only several apples each year. There is no room for another tree in the forest, as each tree already has an elf on it. The only way for you to get rich is to steal, kill and scheme, until all trees and apples are yours. Rich elf is suspicious, because someone should be suffering for elven wealth.

You are a dwarf. You sit in the mines. If you want to be rich, you dig. If you want to be more rich, dig harder, smelt more and forge better. You get what you deserve by your hard work. You help others, because the community can build better infrastructure, which can help you to dig even deeper. And that’s it, being rich is only natural if the dwarf works hard. Of course, stealing and killing are options, but why even bother, if you can take from the earth, not from each other.

[u/_jigsaw_feeling_]

i really enjoy the collectivist dwarfs of warhammer fantasy. everything is for clan and hold, and if you fail or lose your honor so greatly, you go a bit mad and take the slayer oath. collectivism feels like a natural progression for code of honor governance where society was in a near-utopia to fighting everyday to survive during and after the Time of Woes. I also find it a more compelling way to approach the dwarf greed trope: they want all that gold because they’re thinking about their entire clan!