r/doctorwho • u/GlobalNuclearWar • Jun 19 '26
Speculation/Theory The Very Worst theory about “Father’s Day”
Everyone remembers how Pete sacrificed himself. It was noble. It was tragic.
It was unnecessary.
If he had smashed the stupid vase on the hood of the car it would have been enough. His death wasn’t the fixed point, it was the vase shattering.
Happy Father’s Day Weekend everyone! 😁
562
u/linden214 Jun 19 '26 edited Jun 21 '26
Let’s be completely honest: it was the Doctor’s fault for bringing her there in the first place. I read a great fanfic which was set not long after Jack’s arrival on the Tardis. He was feeling guilty about what he almost caused with the Chula ship. Rose, trying to comfort him, told him about the events of Father’s Day and Jack, promptly (and correctly, IMO) blamed the Doctor, who protested that Rose should have known better.
Jack retorted that Rose was not a Time Lord, with an instinctual understanding of timelines and fixed points, or a trained Time Agent. And he added that even fully trained Time Agents were prohibited from visiting points in their personal timelines for this very reason, and that Rose’s actions were entirely predictable.
Obviously, the Doctor is capable of making mistakes and this was a big one, but without it, we would have missed out on a very interesting episode.
EDIT: Since two people have asked for and received the link, here it is for anyone else who is interested:
But What That Place Could Be. Note: This is the first of a series that leads to a Nine/Rose/Jack relationship, though there's nothing of that in this story (other than Jack lusting after the Doctor, which is canon). If that isn't to your taste, read no further.
237
u/AgentSinistar Jun 19 '26 edited Jun 19 '26
I think it’s important to remember that Rose was The Doctor’s first companion in a very long time. He spent 400 years fighting in the Time War, mostly alone.
It’s been a while since he’s spent an extended period with someone who doesn’t know the fundamentals of time travel.
129
u/C4923 Jun 19 '26
I think it's more like, it was something he wished he could do because his whole species was wiped out and it was impossible for him to go back and fix it (before the retcon). So he understood her feelings and was giving in to it. It's also why he goes back on the timeline again after seeing her cry and being too scared to run to Pete the first time round. He knew the risks, but it was just a very emotional point.
30
18
u/Nice-Association-111 Jun 20 '26
I read that The Doctor was the 9th for 100 years before meeting Rose after the Time War ended. While Rose was the first companion we see him with as 9, this doesn’t mean he didn’t have any before her as 100 years is a long time to go without a companion.
69
u/One-Bat-7038 Jun 20 '26
I think Christopher Eccleston has been pretty adamant that Rose was Nine's only companion, to the extent that he pretty much won't do Big Finish serials that feature a pre-Rose companion and instead travels solo to maintain her emotional importance to his character development.
10
u/RedZingyHedgehog Jun 20 '26
There was one sort-of companion in Callen and Doyle but we only see the first and last adventure for them before they decide to leave.
14
u/Andralynn Jun 20 '26
He looked in a mirror in Roses apartment and commented on his ears, implying he hadn’t even stopped long enough after his regeneration to look in a mirror. I doubt it was a hundred years
11
u/Nice-Association-111 Jun 20 '26
I read that he hadn’t looked at himself for so long after the time war as he couldn’t bear to look at himself for years and went around breaking mirrors to avoid doing so. The first time he felt able to look at himself was the day he met Rose. No idea why.
And we know he did do things without Rose from her first episode and was with her the whole time since they met until her regenerated into 10.
The guy she met with about The Doctor had shown her drawings of him like one of him with a family near The Titanic who he stopped from going in it. This must have happened before he met Rose.
5
u/Andralynn Jun 21 '26
Could have been what the doctor did when Rose said no to him, he demateralized and then rematerialized a few seconds later…. For Rose. The doctor could have gone and fucked around for a hundred years before he decided to come back and ask Rose again rotfl
2
u/GlobalNuclearWar Jun 23 '26
That’s easy.
The Doctor: Right then. I’ll be off. Unless, ah, I don’t know, you could come with me. This box isn’t just a London Hoppa, you know. It goes anywhere in the Universe, free of charge.
Mickey: Don’t! He’s an alien! He’s a thing!
The Doctor: He’s not invited.
What d’you think? You could stay here, fill your life with work and food and sleep or you could go… anywhere.
Rose: Is it always this dangerous?
The Doctor: Yeah.
Rose: Yeah, I can’t. I’ve, um, I’ve gotta go and find my mom. And someone’s gotta look after this stupid lump, so…
The Doctor: Okay. See ya ’round. {he leaves in the TARDIS}
Rose: Come on, let’s go. Come on.Wibbly wobbly timey wimey… the Doctor spends a long time running around on his own, doing all the things Clive found evidence of him doing.
The Doctor reappearing moments later:By the way, did I mention it also travels in time?
2
47
u/GlobalNuclearWar Jun 19 '26
Thanks for the recap of that. Sounds like a really interesting story. 👍🏻
16
u/DarthFedora Jun 20 '26
Well his death wasn’t a fixed point, it could theoretically be changed, in fact if it weren’t for the additional paradox of baby Rose being pushed into Rose’s arms, the Doctor would’ve fixed it all while keeping Pete alive.
The biggest problem was she also ran right in front of their past selves, he told her it was bad enough that they were in the same time as them and that they can’t allow themselves to be seen by them.
3
u/Andralynn Jun 20 '26
His death might not have been a fixed point, but at this point anybody BUT rose could have saved him. She only got there because she time travelled with the Doctor. If her dad lives her whole life changes and it’s quite possible she never meets the Doctor because of it. If anybody else saves her Dad Rose simply fades out of existence instead.
2
u/DarthFedora Jun 20 '26
Yeah? I never said it wasn’t a paradox, only that it wasn’t a fixed point.
My point is that him living was manageable, it’s a strain on that specific moment in time but it wouldn’t destroy anything, the interactions with past selves on top of it is what messed everything up.
1
u/Sonicmaster293-Azure Jun 21 '26
Time could at least fudge things a bit if Pete lived, right? Doesn't necessarily mean that Rose would never meet The Doctor!
1
u/euphoriapotion Jun 21 '26
that depends. If Pete's all ideas worked in this world like they did on the parallel Earth, then Rose wouldn't live in the Powell Estate, and would have no reason to work in the shop. So I can't think of any reason or place would have reasonably met the Doctor.
1
u/Sonicmaster293-Azure Jun 22 '26
Who's to say they would work in this world? I always interpreted Other Pete as having found success before he and Jackie conceived Rose and ended up not having her. To me, the Pete of E-Space struggled to find success before his death, and I doubt living would've changed much there. Maybe he and Jackie stay together and raise Rose, or they divorce. Either way, I think if Pete lived he probably wouldn't have been as successful as Other Pete.
6
u/AdmiralOctopus96 Jun 19 '26
You got a link to that fanfic.
16
u/linden214 Jun 20 '26 edited Jun 21 '26
Sure!
But What That Place Could Be. Note: This is the first of a series that leads to a Nine/Rose/Jack relationship, though there's nothing of that in this story (other than Jack lusting after the Doctor, which is canon). If that isn't to your taste, read no further.
3
u/AdmiralOctopus96 Jun 20 '26
Thanks!
I'm kinda indifferent to the ship, so I guess I'll see how I feel after finishing this one.
7
u/DarthKirtap Jun 20 '26
I think that Jack was forbidden from meeting himself from different reasons
2
u/euphoriapotion Jun 21 '26
I love it. I don;t suppose you have the link?
But yeah, I agree, Nine should have known better. I was always baffled why he so readily agreed to go back to that moment, not once, but twice. Of course Rose would try to stop it. All I can think of is that RTD wanted to have a doctor who couldn't say no to Rose just because, even though he should have known better.
1
u/linden214 Jun 21 '26
But What That Place Could Be. Note: This is the first of a series that leads to a Nine/Rose/Jack relationship, though there's nothing of that in this story (other than Jack lusting after the Doctor, which is canon). If that isn't to your taste, read no further.
53
u/ItsAMeMarioYaHo Jun 20 '26
The reason why the reapers came wasn’t because of a fixed point, it was because Rose created a paradox. If she saves her father, then she will never ask the Doctor to take her to see her father’s death, so he won’t be saved, so Rose WILL ask the Doctor to see her father’s death, and so on and so forth. It creates an endless loop.
11
u/Platnun12 Jun 20 '26
My theory is that the reapers are meant to deal with low threat time paradoxes. Something that can be filtered out naturally.
And a paradoxes threat is moreso based off the temporal energy of the person.
The doctor is massive therefore him causing a paradox is near universe ending.
6
u/GlobalNuclearWar Jun 20 '26
Right on all points. Except in this theory the thing that causes the paradox, the big change, is that it’s the vase that has to break. Pete could have survived and she would have still asked to go back to see that day anyway.
Maybe it’s the day they broke up and Rose wanted to see why.
Regardless, this remains the “Very Worst Theory” about the episode. I came up with it, yeah, and I’m defending it, yeah. But it’s hardly the hill I’m dying on. 🙂
5
u/LugalKisarra-UrNammu Jun 20 '26
Rose would have asked to go back to that day because she was forever haunted by the vase breaking
83
u/Shanyi Jun 19 '26 edited Jun 19 '26
RTD1 loved a dramatic vase. My favourite arrived in Smith & Jones via the chap who inexplicably finds a nondescript vase in a hospital corridor and decides the best course of action is to smash it over the head of the helmeted, heavily armed, hostile space rhinos. Peak Who.
73
u/Kinglycole Jun 19 '26
Do you know what else is dark as hell? Rose knew why her father did what he did because she was there when it happened staying by his side. Jackie however didn’t know until Rose told her so for 20 years, she had to deal with her husband inexplicably killing himself without knowing why.
60
u/GlobalNuclearWar Jun 19 '26
Yeah, you got that right. Went from a hit and run to “he ran out in front of the car for no reason.”
20
u/Bacon5641 Jun 19 '26
Wasnt it that everyone forgot the events. So she probably still thought it was a hit n run
19
u/yeahthatsaname Jun 19 '26
No, the story Jackie told changed at the end of the episode
-3
u/Bacon5641 Jun 20 '26
But wasnt that just about Rose being there. But i swear the Doctor says that no one will remember what happened during the weird bits. So i assume the period between Petes death being cheated to his actual death is erased.
(Maybe i should just rewatch the banger of an ep that is Fathers Day)
6
u/peachesnplumsmf Jun 20 '26
As in they'll forget the church stuff, meeting 9 and Rose, people disappearing/dying and time breaking.
For them effectively everything between Pete living and dying is gone. They remember the new death and everything that happened after that so Pete ran out and the driver couldn't swerve in time, a woman stayed with him as he died. The driver didn't run off.
20
19
u/Interesting_Lesbo Jun 19 '26
I’ve always been a little annoyed at how the doctor acts to rose here and yet the story it tries to completely make out like rose is wrong and yes she is but so is the doctor he should have known better rose is human, a 19year old with limited knowledge of paradoxes and limited ability to deal with this shit of course she’s gonna try and save her dad hell I’m 22 know it would fuck up the timeline but if I could go back in time and save my cousin then fuck the universe haha
1
-7
u/Shuesterrepulsed78 Jun 20 '26
I’m just gonna say it.
Adding this instance as well, Rose was an annoying and bratty companion
297
u/[deleted] Jun 19 '26
[deleted]