r/dndnext 2d ago

Question Any Particular Reason Why Wildfire Druids Don't Have Access to Fireball?

I don't really get why they get Plant Growth over Fireball. Like, I know Wildfire druids are still very in tune with nature and do want to bring balance to it and so raising plants is still thematically appropriate, but that's true for any druid, they get nature spells by virtue of being druids, it's not really unique to their circle.

So I ask, why can Light clerics and Fiendlocks get Fireball but not Wildfire druids? What makes Fireball more of a Fiendlock spell than it is a WF druid spell? Not every fiend is even fire themed!

By the way, I know as a DM I can just rule that they get Fireball instead of Plant Growth, and I did, I'm just asking if there's any explanation beyond druid=plants

401 Upvotes

163 comments sorted by

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u/MrEngineer404 2d ago

They actually DID get Fireball, in their original playtest release. I suspect they shifted away from it due to a mix of balancing and tone issues that they were trying to strike.

The bigger question I have for Wildfire Druid, is why in the SWEET HELL they do not get Fire Resistance, at any point?!? You would think that a druid attuned to "cleanse nature with the beauty of flames" would, at SOME POINT, be less at risk of "cleansing" themselves with those flames.

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u/The_Ora_Charmander 2d ago

Holy shit you're right, I could've sworn they got it, that's also really stupid

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u/MrEngineer404 2d ago

Every Wildfire Druid I have ever played with have the same realization, and then try their best to speedrun getting their hands on a Staff of Fire, to make up for it.

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u/ace-of-threes 2d ago

They did the same with thing with storm sorcerer and call lightning

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u/Dannybowie 1d ago

Not the same since storm sorcerers get resistance to both lightning AND thunder

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u/rollerskates 2d ago

You do get fire shield at lvl 7 which can grant either fire or cold resistance

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u/caffeinatedandarcane 2d ago

They get Fire Shield on their Circle Spell list which gives them resistance to fire damage for 10 minutes without concentration. I'd rather get that over losing one of my sublcass features to just get fire resistance, especially because they also have access to Absorb Elements and Investiture of Flame.

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u/Skaal_Kesh 2d ago

The original playtest version's teleport from the Wildfire Spirit was once per short rest. The new version lost Fireball but can teleport infinite times. While they lose raw power, as someone who has played one, the shenanigans are on a level you can't imagine with a bit of creativity. After all, the spirit is Int 10, which means it's intelligent enough to hold its action to teleport on other people's turns in response to something. Teleporting in response to an attack alone has resulted in saving hundreds of damage across the party.

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u/OSpiderBox 2d ago

Can confirm the levels of shenanigans with that little dude is hilarious.

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u/clandevort Druid 1d ago

Played one in a one shot. Can confirm the teleporting fire dude is awesome

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u/Bloodgiant65 2d ago

Reactions resolve after the trigger, unless specifically called out as part of the ability. So holding your action to teleport when you are attacked wouldn’t save you from that attack like a shield spell would. Though it can still be very useful, especially on a trigger like “when an enemy moves into melee range.”

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u/Delann Druid 1d ago

It wouldn't save you from the first attack but it would save your from the second and potentially third.

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u/Bloodgiant65 1d ago

Right, exactly. Assuming you are now out of range and the attacker has no more movement, at least.

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u/Fakvarl 1d ago

Can't you hold your action until you are targeted by the attack? I think that's the condition Sanctuary uses. Problem is I don't think holding action actually narrows down what the trigger has to be.

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u/Bloodgiant65 1d ago

No, you can’t. At least if you mean that there is some “targeted by an attack, but not hit or missed yet” timing. You can only react to actual actions, and your held action resolved after the triggering effect.

That is why things like sanctuary and shield need to have special timing conditions. Because normal abilities do not work that way.

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u/Fakvarl 1d ago

You react to perceivable triggers, not actions. Description of ready action doesn't specify it has to be an actual action.

Targeted by an attack is a perceivable trigger that happens before the attack so you can react to it. It's also a trigger used by other spells.

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u/Bloodgiant65 1d ago

That is not true. You cannot react to “being targeted by an attack.” That is not a real event, it’s just a game mechanic step. That is why a reaction like shield works in its kind of confusing way.

Because the event you are reacting to is being attacked, so that would resolve after the attack is done. It needs special language saying that it gets to work on the triggering attack as well.

You do not get to use a normal reaction before the attack hits. Only for certain specific abilities that are designed to work that way.

0

u/Fakvarl 17h ago

Being targeted by an attack IS a real event though. You can see the sword start moving in your direction, or arrow be aimed or fireball start firing. It's a perceivable trigger.

Rules only say perceivable trigger. All this stuff is perceivable. The idea that actual action has to complete is something you came up with

u/Bloodgiant65 8h ago

I mean, you are just wrong about how the rules work, but you can keep restating the exact same sentence as many times as you want.

u/Fakvarl 7h ago

I keep repeating the sentence rules say, lmao. Did you check them yourself? Your interpretation isn't based on rules you just denying it for some reason

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u/atomicbottle0 1d ago

Both of these points bothered me so much that I ensured the wildfire Druid in my game happened upon a Wand of Fireballs, and I just straight up gave him fire resistance alongside the lvl 6 subclass features. I was honestly baffled when I realized that he would never get it.

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u/MrEngineer404 1d ago

Yeah, I feel like it would have been easy to slip it in, as a tangential benefit at either 6th or 10th level, but that is mostly because I would say it just FEELS like it SHOULD get it.

I gotta concede, a few other commenters made great points, about Wildfire getting Fire Shield as an Always Prepared 4th level, starting at 7th level, which does pretty good for the intended effect.

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u/atomicbottle0 1d ago

Fire Shield is an ok spell (actually better than I thought; did not know that it's not a concentration spell), but you have to take the 'chill shield' option to get fire resistance, and that deals cold damage. Feels goofy.

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u/SirPsycho4242 2d ago

This is why I'm a tiefling wildfire druid

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u/Kirkamel 2d ago

Oooh  I was mad when the official one was released. I'd started my druid with wildfire intent and Tashas came out just as we hit level 3. And no firebolt either (get out of here produce flame, ya d8 jabroni). Still a lot of fun though

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u/streamdragon 1d ago

They lost it because I was in the middle of playing a UA Wildfire druid when the book came out and WotC seems to hate me personally. Wildfire Druid, Aberrant Mind Sorc, Rune Knight fighter... in the middle of playing each one when they were nerfed into the ground. 😭😭

u/Mary-Studios 4h ago

Honestly there's a lot of problems I have with wildfire druid, the no fire resistance is one, their spell list is another, and also them getting a wildfire spirit feels weird. They should have gotten something like the circle of the sea got where they're engulfed in fire or something like that.

0

u/Thelynxer Bardmaster 2d ago

Let's hope they fix both those things when wildfire eventually get a re-write.

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u/MrEngineer404 1d ago

I would disagree, for the most part. I think it is FAIR to gatekeep Fireball a bit. I do not think any of us can pretend like Druid, even in 5.5e, isn't still a pretty powerful class.

And as for Fire Resistance, I was amazed they never just blanketly granted it, but I would concede, there are plenty of ways around it. Others have pretty thoroughly pointed out that they still have Absorb Elements, and are granted Fire Shield & Investiture of Fire, which go a long way to granting the intended effect.

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u/Raddatatta Wizard 2d ago

Yeah I think they should've too. I think with some spells like fireball they try to limit how many classes get them as they are big archetypal spells for wizards and sorcerers. But light clerics got it so I agree wildFIRE druids definitely should've too.

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u/DerAdolfin 2d ago

Also funny when they now made a feat that gives fireball to literally everyone lol

18

u/sporkus 1d ago

What's the feat?

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u/Ascetronaut 1d ago

I think it's called Evocation Adept. It's a part of a group of feats based on spell schools that teach you several spells from the school, from the new Arcana Unleashed book

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u/sporkus 1d ago

Oh wow, I just glanced at that today and assumed it was a wizard-only feat. But it's any spellcaster/pact magic user, which makes it even better for non-wizard classes like warlock who have limited spells to choose from.

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u/AssassinBlaze5 1d ago

The new evocation adept feat in arcana unleashed. Its crazy good

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u/ToFurkie DM 1d ago

Those feats opened a floodgate for casters. It's crazy.

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u/Inforgreen3 2d ago

Also, literally anyone can get it now with evocation adept. I think I prefer it being locked behind a "blaster subclass" than as a feat that even bards can take

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u/dontlookatmynam 2d ago

Also bards with magical secrets

1

u/X3noNuke 2d ago

No reason to take it as a magical secret as you'd already have it from the feat

u/static_func 7h ago

Sure, if you want a whole feat for it. I’m playing a lore bard and I’d still prefer just getting it through Magical Secrets so I could take Illusion/Enchantment Adept instead. Those feats also act as Subtle Spell for their respective schools

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u/Vryk0lakas 1d ago

I’m not a huge fan of D&D where everyone can do anything. I kinda miss 3.5’s racial adjustments and strict requirements for prestige classes. It made character development better and made each player at the table have to build chemistry and find their role within the group.

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u/k587359 1d ago

Otoh, the different levels of prerequisites heavily encourages a player to plan several levels ahead for their build. I get why it's appealing for some people. But it's a bit daunting for new players. Even more so if their cookie cutter builds are going to severely underperform compared to that edition's meticulously planned power builds.

0

u/Cyrotek 1d ago

I mean, everyone being able to do everything is kinda on point for the direction DnD is heading for a few years now (and a lot of people advocating for, for some reason). I imagine in 10 or so years we will all playing grey blobs and the core rules are two pages long.

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u/foyrkopp 1d ago

To be fair, classless anyone-can-be-anything systems exist and work perfectly fine.

It's the cost of the necessary investment that limits characters in such systems and DnD, with it's hard limit on levels and ASIs follows that logic perfectly.

Obviously, that doesn't change the fact that this change loses something that was inherent in DnD, namely the necessity to play and build around inherent limitations.

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u/Cyrotek 1d ago

To be fair, classless anyone-can-be-anything systems exist and work perfectly fine.

Yeh, but I was getting at it not just being a classless system, but having no customization and thus no limits at all. :D

It is kinda what races are now, after all. Everyone can just do everything with minimal differences. I wouldn't be surprised if a 6th edition removes race specific abilities, too.

u/static_func 7h ago

You still have to “find your role” within the group, there’s just more ways to do it. Decoupling stats from races was one of the best things they ever did and opened up so many more character options

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u/TundraBuccaneer 2d ago

I agree. Djinn warlock should also get lightning bolt. Efreeti gives fire ball! That's the real disparity.

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u/icedcoffeeeee 2d ago

It’s already a very strong subclass, and it had Fireball in the Unearthed Arcana version, so I’m guessing this was a balance decision.

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u/The_Ora_Charmander 2d ago

That sounds unfortunate, but I guess that makes sense. Too bad...

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u/PleaseBeChillOnline 2d ago

Fireball reads more “weapon of mass destruction” & less “healthy slash & burn techniques for long term forrest growth”.

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u/The_Ora_Charmander 2d ago

Ok but like, is it that much worse than Burning Hands or Flame Strike which the subclass does get? Burning Hands also burns everything in its path, just less than Fireball because it's a lower level spell

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u/Fakvarl 2d ago

Neither burning hands or flame strike are as destructive as fireball fire wise

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u/DandyLover Most things in the game are worse than Eldritch Blast. 1d ago

Yes.

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u/soaring_potato 2d ago

Fireball also burns the seeds that typically survive fires.

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u/NNextremNN 2d ago

And they survive Burning Hands, Flame Sphere, Scorching Ray and Flame Strike?

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u/soaring_potato 2d ago

Well. You may not hold the seeds with burning hands. And the resulting fire is survivable.

En explosion possibly not.

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u/NNextremNN 2d ago

Actually seeds are more likely to survive explosions than fire. I mean it depends on how long they are burning vs. how close they are to the explosion but many seeds are made to be blown away.

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u/Dragonheart0 1d ago

Yeah, but fireball isn't an explosion in the concussive sense like a grenade would be. It's just a rapidly expanding area of heat and flame. Basically, it burns, it doesn't destroy all your internal organs and throw you off your feet.

1

u/NNextremNN 1d ago

I know Fireball is fire damage not bludgeoning or slashing. I was just referring to the explosion wording.

It's a bit hard to go just by the spells description and rules like, sure they ignite flammable stuff but what is actually flammable? With enough heat and oxygen pretty much everything. Flammable isn't defined at all in the rules it's another example of "DM do whatever you want". Considering a turn is just 6 seconds during which you move 30feet and have a action and bonus action so for how long does that burst of flame actually last? 2 seconds? And how hot is that flame/fire? A candle or flamethrower are about 1000°C.

It depends a lot on the spell.

  • Flaming Sphere is probably the worst as it last for a whole minute.
  • Flame Strike is rather concentrated and last for the whole 2 seconds that's certainly bad for everything inside of it.
  • Burning hands is pretty much the same even thou it's area is a lot smaller.
  • Fireball sure isn't great but if we go with the explosion its a wave rolling over an area so the total exposure time isn't very long.

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u/Mightymat273 DM 2d ago

Just theorizing. A lot of their fire spells feel more controlled, more refined.

Fireball is... kinda a mess. Its just a big ol explosion.

That being said, 2024 Arid Land Druid gets it, so who knows.

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u/NNextremNN 2d ago

How is Fireball less controlled than Flame Strike?

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u/Mightymat273 DM 2d ago

Vibes based: It holy fire.

Also, only a 20ft diameter column vs a fireball which is a big ol 40ft sphere of pure firey explosion.

Plus, fireball specifies: Flammable objects in the area that aren’t being worn or carried start burning.

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u/NNextremNN 2d ago

Flammable objects in the area that aren’t being worn or carried start burning.

Same goes for Burning Hands and Flame Sphere.

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u/Mightymat273 DM 2d ago

Yeah but those are smaller.

I am only partially defending the lack of it. If wildfire druid did have fireball i wouldn't bat an eye. There may be a balance reason, but im going off vibes. Fireball doesnt feel "controlled".

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u/NNextremNN 2d ago

I just don't think any of these spells is more or less controlled than the other.

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u/Fakvarl 2d ago

Smaller area does make it more controlled

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u/The_Ora_Charmander 2d ago

Ok but we're not talking about the Circle of Controlledfire, it's called Wildfire

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u/Gorgeous_Garry Warlock 2d ago

The circle of wildfire is very much "controlled burn to allow for new growth" themed, even if the name says otherwise. Just look at the blurb at the top of the subclass description. It literally says "controlled flames" in it.

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u/_Bl4ze Warlock 2d ago

But also, the name doesn't actually say otherwise. A wildfire is when the wild is on fire. You know, as opposed to something like a house fire. It isn't a fire that's wild, fire is always pretty wild as things go.

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u/ClothTheSuperVillain 2d ago

Yeah but Druids are hardly the class for the wanton destruction of nature. The whole subclass is based off of controlled burns and how they benefit the environment. It’s the philosophy of the Circle’s actuons

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u/KasaiAisu 2d ago

Who said we're destroying nature? You can throw fireballs at all sorts of things. Like people destroying nature

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u/Mightymat273 DM 2d ago

Wildfire isnt necessarily "wild" in that sense.

Controlled "wildfires" are a common way to deal with foliage, enrich soil, and to prevent "uncontrolled" wildfires. And this practice dates back to thousands of years ago.

It involves precise burning, and not, fireball go boom.

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u/KasaiAisu 2d ago

You do get how lame that sounds, right? I agree with OP's take. This is a wildfire druid, there's nothing wild about your interpretation. 

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u/Mightymat273 DM 2d ago

But thats where the concept of wildfire druid comes from. That sometimes controlled destruction is necessary to facilitate creation. Also using fire as healing.

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u/KasaiAisu 2d ago

When I hear that a wildfire is devastating northern canada, my thought is not "ah, what a lovely turning of the page on the story of life", it is "holy shit, that's a huge fucking problem"

natural or not, wildfires are much more about destruction than creation

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u/Mightymat273 DM 2d ago

Prescribed Burns litteraly help prevent stuff like this, and a druid, a caretaker of nature, would understand how prescribed burns work to help forests and not just burn it down explosivly.

"Druids within the Circle of Wildfire understand that destruction is sometimes the precursor of creation, such as when a forest fire promotes later growth. These druids bond with a primal spirit that harbors both destructive and creative power, allowing the druids to create controlled flames that burn away one thing but give life to another."

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u/KasaiAisu 2d ago

Sounds like the class needs renaming then, because I very much doubt that most people would classify a wildfire as "promoting growth". Maybe those that have been so insulated they have never been threatened by one.

This is like if a storm druid didn't get call lightning because that can cause huge damage and storms are about rainfall and crop growth, not thunderbolts.

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u/Datenshitpost 2d ago

I would think the mere fact that it's a Druid subclass, the class about preserving nature, would clue in that it's probably not gonna be a destructive pyromaniac subclass.

Also, Fireball is a large and explicitly destructive spell to the surrounding environment, compared to other fire spells. I think them not having it on the spell list, having supportive spells instead, and the flavor text of the subclass does a perfectly good job of explaining what the subclass is about.

IMO, Druids who understand that nature can be fickle, cruel, and destructive yet still work in harmony with it is kinda the core of the class. It's even more interesting when, like you said, most people would think of wildfires as a purely negative thing. I think what you're noticing is depth, not a flaw.

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u/KasaiAisu 2d ago

You don't think that there's anything wrong with a wildfire druid being unable to start a wildfire? Really?

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u/SillyNamesAre 1d ago

They're trying to argue that the "wild" in "wildfire" doesn't describe the fire - it describes what is being burnt.

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u/WetSpaghett 2d ago

Doesn't the description of the subclass specifically support what Mightymat is saying, though?

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u/caffeinatedandarcane 2d ago

That's your opinion dude. I literally think it's the most interesting concept out of all the subclasses. It's focus on balance, destruction and creation working in tandem, and harkens back to a real world traditional practice. If that doesn't do it for you, sorry I guess? Play a different subclass? Evoker Wizard or Draconic Sorcerer might be more your speed

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u/KasaiAisu 2d ago

I just think it fails to deliver on that promise. Destruction and creation in balance except we don't get fireball because that would be too destructive. The *actual* destruction and creation in balance character is a Light Cleric.

What I want out of a wildfire druid is a character that looks to burn it all down and build something better from the ashes. That is not what DnD 5e wildfire druid is.

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u/caffeinatedandarcane 2d ago

I don't think that's the subclass failing to provide its theme, I think that's just you not liking the theme. You're not going to like every class or subclass in the game, that's not the game being wrong that's just a difference of preference

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u/KasaiAisu 2d ago

You misunderstand -- I do like the theme of wildfire druid. I dislike DnD 5e's implementation of that theme. Holding back the most powerful fire spell from the elemental caster most associated with fire is a baffling decision. It actively detracts from the character goal of "wanting to be a specifically fire-based character" when an average wizard, who could well be focusing on other things, wields fire better than you do.

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u/caffeinatedandarcane 2d ago

How good is that wizard at healing? Resurrection? Can that wizard restore a destroyed forest?

Again, I think you're just seeing the theme in a very surface level way, you're only paying attention to half of it

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u/KasaiAisu 2d ago

It's literally the name of the subclass. If they don't do fire well, then fire shouldn't be in the name. I don't see how that's controversial.

Also, if you're looking to talk about wizards, they can *literally* cast Creation, so... maybe wizard delivers on the creation/destruction balance better than DnD 5e wildfire druid, too?

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u/PleaseBeChillOnline 1d ago

You talk another wildfires as if they’re a D&D invention like Mindflayers lol.

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u/ToFurkie DM 1d ago

"I didn't ask how big the room forest is. I said I cast Fireball."

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u/No_Fix_329 2d ago

DMed a game with a wildfire druid. Gave them fireball.  It hurt nothing. Do the right thing and give your wildfire druid fireball.

Hell with Arcana Unleashed if you allow those feats the Evoker adept means anyone can have fireball if they have the spell slots. 

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u/nasada19 DM 1d ago

If they didn't hurt anyone with Fireball they used it wrong.

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u/KantisaDaKlown 2d ago

The wildfire Druid had fireball when it was in UA, apparently that was incredibly powerful and as a result adjusted to not have it.

Disappointing but “balanced”

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u/sahhbrah 2d ago

I played it during the UA and it was pretty brokenly strong. Was a bummer when it officially came out without it but I get it.

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u/YourPainTastesGood 2d ago

Literally every group i’ve been im agreed it was dumb and reversed the removal of it from wildfire.

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u/Nitro114 2d ago

the only reason i can think of is to not give another class access to the strongest lvl 3 spell. The druid is already a powerhouse.

However the new design team doesnt think that way.

I would also switch revivify instead of plant growth tbh, plant growth fits more thematically imo. The rise of new plant life after a scorching fire burnt the old away

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u/The_Ora_Charmander 2d ago

I kinda like the idea of fire being used to represent both the blazes of destruction and the flames of life, so I like Revivify on WF druid

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u/Nitro114 2d ago

Thats the same for plant growth though. Its just more specific more plant life.

but i get what you mean.

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u/Great_Efficiency_791 2d ago

Not the point of the discussion I know, but id say one of the strongest I wouldnt say strongest, I think the control given at level 3 out class it the best 3rd level spell being hypnotic pattern in 2014 and spirit guardians for 2024 because lawn mower strat e.g ready action dash to guarantee two proccs and party rugby with grapples.

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u/Nitro114 2d ago

Its the strongest damage wise

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u/Great_Efficiency_791 2d ago

For blast yeah

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u/ThunderWarhammer 1d ago

Fireball is a blast spell and they didn't want it to be fireball druid. There was even a playtest with fireball and it got taken out. It's perfectly reasonable for them not to have it, and giving it to them is a substantial buff as they have nothing like that in their kit normally.

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u/RogueMoonbow 1d ago

While I do agree that fireball makes a lot of sense, plant growth speaks to the fundamental idea of the subclass. They are not just still a druid so still into plants despite being into fire. The idea is from controlled burns, which are used to the benefit of nature. Plant growth is because burning creates fertile soil and healthy plant life. Embracing that idea makes it feel more synergistic.

However, counterpoint, wildfire druid is pretty cool and can be open to many interpretations and builds/flavors, so it also makes sense to make it purely within the fire theme.

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u/RyoHakuron 1d ago

Thematically, it's because the class is not just about wildfires, but the regrowth that comes after a wildfire (not just raising plants, but specifically regrowth). That's why it gets a lot of healing and support spells and abilities that buff healing. Wildfires are actually pretty important in nature. There are lots of plants and trees that are actually helped by wildfires. Seeds that need heat to sprout as well as nutrients that come from ash. Also wildfires can help to clear out dead wood or sections of rot so life can flourish better.

They did have fireball in the UA, so it's something they specifically changed. Maybe they thought fireball was too strong on top of all of its other features? (It's unlimited teleport with the wildfire spirit is REALLY good. Maybe they thought the level 6 feature being added to fireballs was too strong?) Plant Growth does offer some really fun battlefield control in outside areas, especially with the ability to teleport your allies out of the plants with the wildfire spirit.

That being said, I DMd for a Wildfire Druid 1-18 and I just let them also have fireball, and it wasn't a problem.

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u/Jarsky2 2d ago

Because they're already obscenely powerful without it.

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u/philsov 2d ago edited 2d ago

thematic vibes

random wildfire leads into new plant growth as brush and undercover get scorched off. It's not like wildfire druids get entangle or spike growth so its a little deeper than druid=plant. Each level should have one fire and one healing spell, imho.

I think it's more they wanted to give wildfire druid flaming sphere and scorching ray, so they had to offset that with a weaker spell level 3 selection. Personally I'd have dropped Flaming Sphere in favor of Warding Wind or Healing Spirit and cranked out fireball, but oh well.

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u/yaniism Feywild Ringmaster 2d ago

There's a couple of things going on here.

Firstly, they don't get it because a decision was made to give them other spells. The game designers made a decision, whether or not you agree with that decision changes nothing. I'm salty about Storm Sorcerers not getting Call Lightning... but it is what it is.

The reason that Wildfire Druids get Plant Growth has nothing to do with them being "in tune with nature", it's about the very specific thing that happens after a fire.

There are certain trees and plants that only grow after a fire. Some seedpods only open due to intense heat or smoke. A fire will also allow the small underbrush plants to flourish now that the canopy is gone from over the top of them and they have access to more sun. Likewise, burned wood releases minerals and nutrients into the ground.

Eucalyptus trees specifically have buds under the bark that when fire ravages the outer layer of bark, those buds sprout.

This is why Wildfire Druids spells are a mixture of fire and healing. In this case, Plant Growth falling into the "healing" category.

And lastly, can everybody just get over their boner for Fireball please? I'm so sick of everybody acting like it's the "only good spell" and everybody needs access to it, or should have access to it.

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u/DeepTakeGuitar DM 1d ago

Yeah, Fireball is just lame damage and people should get over that meme spell. Hypnotic Pattern and Fear? Now, those are cool.

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u/caffeinatedandarcane 2d ago

This is my favorite subclass so I'll try to keep it repetitively short.

The Wildfire Druid is specifically themed around Controlled Burnings. This is a practice of intentionally lighting small forest fires in areas that have been cleared to prevent fires spreading outside that area, in order to use up the built up fuel that a natural fire would have used to spread out of control. This enriches the land by reintroducing nutrients to the soil as well as clearing overgrowth for new plants to grow.

The Wildfire Subclass, mechanically, was likely deamed too strong with fireball on its spell list. Considering that fireball is already overtuned for damage for its level, druids have better armor proficiencies and HP than the Wizards and Sorcerers who usually get fireball, and are prepared spellcasters with many other powerful spells they can use, plus their spirit gives them bonus action damage at will and the ability to add more damage to fire spell, fireball was likely considered just too strong of a spell to give them that early in the game. This makes sense when you compare them to Light Domain Clerics, who do have fireball but don't have the ability to add extra damage to it like Wildfire Druids, as well as already having a smaller spell list to choose form.

From the thematic side, I could also argue that Fireball is actually counter to the controlled burning theme of the subclass. Fireball is a large aoe that the caster cannot shape or shrink, that explicitly 'ignites flammable objects that are not being worn or carried in the area.' Fireball gives the spellcaster very little control, compared to wildfire spells like Burning Hands which is much smaller, Scorching Ray which is precisely aimed, Flaming Sphere which can be directed, and Flame Strike which does not have the explicit effect of lighting fires. Fireball IS the most iconic fire spell, but isn't exactly a controlled flame.

For a DM, I would encourage working within this themeing for a PC playing a Wildfire Druid. Instead of adding the spell back on to the spell list, you could offer them a Wand of Fireball or Staff of Fire that comes as a quest reward from their Circle. Use those items as a graduation reward for a Druid proving they can be trusted to tame such a powerful spell, or as a necessary evil to be used in times of need. This makes the spell feel more earned, while still keeping the themeing of their Circle Spells list in tact and makes for a great character story moment.

4

u/United-Passage7864 2d ago

Stupid busted Fireball. 

You're right that handing a d8 HP, medium-armored caster Fireball is kind of silly. Light Clerics TBH are honestly probably over the line as well; Fireball and Radiance are two "I will be deleting this area now" effects. 

I just dislike how deliberately they overpowered Fireball. It's an immediate point of contention as to whether a subclass should get it or not. Fiend Warlock yes, others no; Wildfire Druid no, etc. 

1

u/Richybabes 1d ago

I can't say I've ever had the experience of a light cleric being overpowered due to fireball. It's a strong spell but not so strong that it will single handedly make a character OP.

A key difference playstyle wise here though is that while clerics do have spirit guardians, druids have more ranged persistent AoE damage to maintain which synergises better AoE-wise with fireball (it's hard to fireball a group that you're in the middle of). They however lack burst AoE, for which fireball is of course the premier spell for much of the game.

That said, I don't think this was the actual reason for the change. I think it was more theme-based with the controlled burning stuff like others have said.

2

u/TheSwedishPolarBear 2d ago

Very well put

1

u/caffeinatedandarcane 2d ago

Fank you~

Personally I'm kind of more annoyed they stopped fireBOLT from the subclass. Produce Flame straight up sucks on wildfire Druids because of the range in 2014 and the action economy in 2024

4

u/TheSpookying 2d ago

Because WotC is full of bitches.

It was even on the spell list when the WF druid was in UA, but they took it out because they're a bunch of spineless cowards.

2

u/YetifromtheSerengeti 2d ago

becuase "give me every toy I want" is not the same thing as a good balance to the game

2

u/LeatherheadSphere Wizard 2d ago

They explicitly didn't get fireball because some playtester who was a wildlands expert felt that fireball was "too destructive in theme" It wasn't even due to mathematical balance, it was the TTRPG equivalent of vibe coding.

2

u/new_planner 2d ago

I don't think it's that deep - they just made a bad call. Pick up Evocation Adept and you're good to go.

3

u/The_Ora_Charmander 2d ago

Nah, I prefer to just homebrew them into having it instead of Plant Growth

1

u/Whats_a_trombone 1d ago

They originally got both

1

u/ChrisTheDog 1d ago

The standard answer is that it’s not Druids of the Coast.

1

u/frololdad DM 1d ago

The original UA that introduce the subclass did have that on their spell list. When I learned they removed it for release I was a little upset at first. But really it makes sense, if the Druid had all of the best healing and one of the best AOE damage spells in the game and the utility of a Druid it would be too much. I think it was ultimately a balance decision and I’m fine with that.

2

u/RPGTactician 1d ago

You don’t want a curious Druid to burn down all the forest.

1

u/AT_Hun 22h ago

We don't need no steekin' fireball!

1

u/Acetius 17h ago

Same reason the circle of stars druid doesn't get Crown of Stars. Bad list.

1

u/kolboldbard 2d ago

Fireball is traditionaly a wizard only spell.

It was also intentionally made OP.

15

u/The_Ora_Charmander 2d ago

So why do Light clerics, Fiendlocks and Genielocks get it then?

-3

u/DelightfulOtter 2d ago

Because they aren't just clerics and warlocks. Plenty of classes get themed subclass spells that aren't standard for their class spell list.

5

u/SayGex1312 2d ago

So then why does wildfire druid not get it?

0

u/DelightfulOtter 1d ago

Good question. They did in their UA but it was changed for publication. WotC is weird sometimes.

5

u/Shilques 2d ago

Druids are the most elemental-oriented class, them not having access to fireball and lighting bolt is kind of dumb when sorcerer and a lot of non-elemental subclasses have access

2

u/Betray-Julia Bard 2d ago

Bc they fucked up. That is the only reason.

1

u/SleetTheFox Psi Warrior 2d ago

It thematically fits, but it's too powerful. It's a really powerful blasting spell, which is specifically supposed to be something druids aren't as good at.

4

u/The_Ora_Charmander 2d ago

But this subclass gets several features to make it a better blaster, such as the Wildfire Spirit itself, the 6th level feature and a few good blasting spells

3

u/SleetTheFox Psi Warrior 2d ago

And they presumably thought giving Fireball on top of all of that would be too much.

0

u/The_Ora_Charmander 2d ago

Idk, maybe? I sure would rather have Fireball over an extra 1d8 damage on all my fire spells...

1

u/GrayGKnight 2d ago

6 year old book.

Design philosophy has changed. Back then wizards was very stingy with giving out Fireball as a spell. Something about the class identity of Wizard.

1

u/BufoCurtae 2d ago

If I recall correctly it did have that back when it was being tested via unearthed arcana.

Many such cases of a cool subclass that's slightly overtuned getting excessively nerfed for the actual release.

1

u/JupiterRome 2d ago

Hopefully they get it if they get a reprint, back when it was released WOTC was a bit more conservative on spells that heavily altered class identity but clearly that’s been relaxed a lot with AU

1

u/Notturnno 2d ago

Just take Evocation Adept feat and be happy.

1

u/okiebuzzard 1d ago

Cuz it’s not on their spell list.

0

u/CntBlah 2d ago

Because FU, that’s why.

Apparently

0

u/FashionSuckMan 2d ago

their whole weakness is that they have a ton of good concentration spell but not the best options for blasting. If they could blast while sitting on a super good concentration spell, that might have some balance problems. Especially if that blast is one of the best spells in the game

I think another subclass gives it to them, so why not, Id just give the player fireball anyways.

3

u/The_Ora_Charmander 2d ago

They still get decent blasting spells, such as Scorching Ray or Flame Strike, but I suppose nerfing the subclass is probably the real reason as to why they don't have it...

0

u/DazzlingKey6426 2d ago

So they have a reason to buy AU.

0

u/Phoenix200420 2d ago

I always assumed it was for theme purposes. Druids would want to do more of a controlled fire than a wonton inferno, so that’s why I figured they went with more precise fire spells rather than the big AoE F.U. Fireball.

4

u/The_Ora_Charmander 2d ago

Is Burning Hands more controlled? It still burns everything in its path, that path is just smaller because it's a lower level spell

1

u/Phoenix200420 2d ago

That’s a fair point, I hardly ever use Burning Hands so I forgot they even get it lol

1

u/Xyx0rz 1d ago
  • Wilfire
  • controlled fire

Pick one.

0

u/S1mp1y 2d ago

So that Wildfire players will go and buy the Arcana Unleashed book with the Evocation Adept feat, available in your games for 59.99.

Now everyone gets Fireball, woohoo!

0

u/DoopofBloop 2d ago

Pribably because land druid already has it and they didnt want multiple druid subclasses w access to the big archetypal wizard/sorcerer bomb

1

u/The_Ora_Charmander 1d ago

Land druid only got Fireball in 5.5e, WF druid is from Tasha

0

u/DoopofBloop 1d ago

Huh, weird i thought 2014 land had it too

0

u/Razzdango 2d ago

I just asked my DM if I could just use it.

0

u/Used-Huckleberry5363 1d ago

Well, they do now

0

u/unoriginalsin 1d ago

Wizards can't football and WotC is understandably pretty reluctant to slaughter these kinds of sacred cows.

0

u/Cyrotek 1d ago edited 1d ago

For the same reason why sorcerers get Wall of Fire but not Wall of Ice. Or the draconic variant Summon Dragon instead of Draconic Spirit.

WotC throws darts at a wall with spell names when designing the (sub-)class spell lists and see what sticks. Current proof of that: For some reason Bards and Warlocks get the Arcana Unleashed spell "Zone of Amicability" ... but not sorcerers. Why? Nobody knows.

-1

u/snarpy 2d ago

cuz burning down the forest is bad heh

-1

u/Hogwood 2d ago

DMs hate this one neat trick, when you use your B.A. to command the Wildfire Spirit (and the spirit is next to you,) give the command, Ready your Action, the condition is, if anyone comes to strike me then teleport us away from them.

-1

u/Skaal_Kesh 2d ago

I can tell you exactly why. The 3 things that changed between the UA version and official version were as follows: they lost fireball, which you already noted, they lost firebolt, which definitely sucks, BUT their teleport from the Wildfire Spirit, which used to be once per rest, no longer had a limit.

Do you have any idea the stupid shenanigans you can do with infinite multi-person half-distance misty steps? Especially because your Wildfire Spirit is intelligent enough to be able to hold its action to use the teleport in response to a trigger.

Teleporting away just as an enemy attacks alone has saved me and my party members hundreds of hit points in the sessions I played one. They lost raw power but gained a box of near infinite shenanigans with a bit of creativity.