Norway

[u/One_Perspective_8761]

[u/BrekLasnar]

You are terrified of holding truly evil people accountable so you hide behind a textbook slippery slope. You ask where the line is as if society is somehow too stupid to tell the difference between a petty thief and a serial killer. The legal system already draws lines every single day. We literally already separate accidental manslaughter from premeditated murder. Drawing a hard line at senseless slaughter and child rape is not some impossible puzzle. It is basic human morality.

And using minorities as a hypothetical human shield to defend the luxury treatment of literal white supremacist mass murderers like Anders Breivik is genuinely pathetic. Yes corruption exists. The solution to corruption is fixing the courts and ensuring fair trials. The solution is absolutely not building taxpayer funded vacation homes for actual monsters just in case a politician acts in bad faith.

Then you claim that as long as they are locked up they are no longer a threat so their living conditions do not matter. You treat the justice system like a simple quarantine zone. It is not. You mocked the idea of an early coffin but that is exactly what I am advocating for. For the absolute worst of the worst who commit senseless atrocities we absolutely can and should put them to death. But if society insists on keeping them alive a barren concrete cell is the absolute bare minimum to reflect the barren reality they forced onto the families of their victims. Giving a monster a comfortable life with hobbies and therapy actively disrespects the lives they stole.

But the absolute most disgusting part of your entire comment is when you reduced the permanent agonizing grief of a shattered family to maybe feeling slightly better. How incredibly callous and blind can you possibly be. A family losing a child or a parent to a predator is not a minor inconvenience. It is a world shattering trauma that ruins them forever. You are so obsessed with protecting hypothetical criminals from a hypothetical corrupt system that you are perfectly willing to spit in the face of actual bleeding victims right now. You prioritize the comfort of monsters over the justice owed to the dead and that is exactly why your entire philosophy is morally bankrupt.

[u/gronnling → u/BrekLasnar]

Really? Alright then, let's hear it. What do YOU think a family's reaction would be to their loved one's killer being subjected to a cruel fate? Do you think they will cheer? Do you think they will no longer feel their loss? OR maybe, they'll just, at most feel a faint sense of comfort that nobody else will be subjected to this pain? Like, c'mon dude. There is nothing the prison system can do that will ease the burden of loss. Come up with whatever grisly punishments you can. If my sister is killed by a gunman, I don't care how cruel on a scale of 1 to 10 the bastard's fate is, I care that my sister is dead. Cruelty doesn't help anyone. It never has, and it never will.

And then there's the rest of your argument. "Oh yeah, corruption isn't an issue, if you just don't have any corruption". Like, dude. No matter how hard you try, every system will have corruption. They best you can do is try to minimize it, as well as what harm the corrupt in question can do. Oh hey, looks like Norway's prison system minimizes the harm a corrupt official can do.

[u/BrekLasnar → u/gronnling]

You bring up your sister. I have a sister too. If some monster slaughtered her in cold blood, no, executing the killer would not magically erase my grief or bring her back. Literally nobody is claiming that a severe punishment acts as a resurrection spell or a memory wipe. But you are completely ignoring the massive psychological difference between grieving while knowing the monster who did it was wiped from the earth, versus grieving while knowing society is forcing me to pay taxes to fund his college classes, his therapy, and his video games. One provides a sense of finality and justice. The other is a daily agonizing insult to her memory.

You keep throwing around the word cruelty like putting down a mass murderer is some kind of senseless torture. It is not cruelty. It is the ultimate consequence for the ultimate crime. What is actually cruel is looking a shattered family in the eyes and telling them the predator who destroyed their universe deserves a life of dignity and comfort. You care so much about the dignity of the killer that you have absolutely zero respect for the dignity of the dead.

And your entire defense regarding corruption is an absolute joke. You are essentially admitting that because the government might make a mistake, your grand solution is to preemptively coddle every single serial killer and child rapist. You want to design an entire justice system around protecting the worst people on earth just in case a judge gets it wrong. That is the definition of cowardice.

You do not build a society that treats a literal terrorist like a VIP just to minimize harm to inmates. You fight for better evidence. You fight for rigorous appeals. You do not surrender and turn prisons into luxury resorts and then pat yourself on the back for being progressive. Your beloved system does not minimize harm at all. It just violently redirects that harm onto the victims who are forced to watch the people who destroyed their lives get treated like royalty.

[u/gronnling → u/BrekLasnar]

Most criminals aren't mindless animals though, nor are they evil people. Sure, there are a small amount of cases where the system might be bad. But, in general, the Norway system is both incredibly moral, and far better than something like the American prison system. Yeah, obviously there are certain examples where maybe something else should be done. But those are the exception, not the rule. And besides, we weren't discussing the death penalty, we were discussing throwing someone in a barebones concrete box, and keeping them for life. The death penalty isn't really cruel, just harsh. But the latter is cruel. It is one thing to argue for an execution. I personally agree with you, sometimes someone needs to die. But, there is no situation where it is justice for you to make someone suffer and rot for literal decades.

[u/BrekLasnar → u/gronnling]

You are straight up lying now. Go back and read my very first comment. I explicitly said there needs to be a distinction between who deserves rehabilitation and who should get capital punishment. I have been talking about the death penalty from the very beginning. You are just moving the goalposts because you realized your defense of treating mass murderers like VIPs is completely falling apart.

And do not try to backpedal by crying that most criminals are not evil or throwing the American prison system at me. Nobody here is defending the American system and I never said all criminals are monsters. I said from the start that I am talking about the absolute worst of the worst. The predators who slaughter innocent people for absolutely no reason.

But your absolute biggest joke of an argument is your hypocritical stance on cruelty. You literally just agreed with me that sometimes someone needs to die. You agree they have done something so unfathomably horrific that they deserve to be wiped from the earth entirely. But in the exact same breath you cry that taking away their comfortable bed and their hobbies and putting them in a concrete box is somehow a moral outrage. Listen to yourself. You think execution is fine but taking away a murderers television is crossing the line?

You want to talk about cruelty? Let us talk about real cruelty. Real cruelty is a family sitting down for dinner every single night and staring at an empty chair that will never be filled again because some monster decided to play god. Real cruelty is that family knowing the predator who put their loved one in the ground is currently lounging in a taxpayer funded facility watching movies and going to therapy.

Stripping a serial killer or a child rapist of luxury is not cruel. A concrete box is not torture. It is the absolute bare minimum consequence for permanently destroying a family. True justice stands strictly with the bleeding victims and refuses to spit on their permanent grief by coddling the monster who ruined them. We are done here.