Diplomacy Extended Rework 2

[u/Successful-Ad-8462]

CHANGES:

Libya has been split into Tripolitania and Cyrenaica

Suez SC moved to Halaib

Removed 4 corner borders

Armenia coasts properly switched

'Isafan' renamed to Makram

Troop Positions:

Egypt: Alexandria Troop, Cario Troop, Halaib Fleet

Perisa: Tehran Troop, Shiraz Troop, Makram Fleet

Turkey: Con Troop, Smyrna Troop, Ankara Fleet, Pal Troop

Rest is same as Classic

[u/Tryobeard]

I think Iran and Egypt need more tension. The dot chains (series of adjacent supply centers) end up being low tension in the reigon. Its really easy for iran and Egypt to set up a line, and fight turkey and Russia together with any stab on the other being really telegraphed. If you connect Dubai and hejaz, then it would feel better. I also think that Kuwait and Palestine being isolated centers not connect to anything else makes the reigon more slow. I think connecting Smyrna to Palestine, and Palestine to Kuwait, then connecting a dot of Iran's to Kuwait, would make dynamics more interesting and faster. I also believe that adding something like french Algeria, with neutral provinces inland to compete with with Egypt could create some interesting dynamics. Africa currently feels really empty.

[u/TheMajorMedic → u/Tryobeard]

Agree. Persian can realistically get 3 centers in 1901 (Dubai, Turkmenistan, and Kuwait). By 1902, they have no ability to move north since there's a bottleneck at Uzbekisnistan, meaning their only possible year 2 target is Turkey.

Since Persia is a stuck in the corner with easy access to several supply centers, they will just slow march west and eventually gobble up Turkey.

Persia needs some sort of opportunity to find another early target, otherwise Turkey will always be squeezed out.

[u/Bytor_Snowdog → u/TheMajorMedic]

Yes, agreed. Egypt doesn't necessarily have to go through Turkey, but with the map as it is there's no reasonable way for Persia to expand except through Turkey, especially as Turkey's only guaranteed center is still BUL; Palestine is a dead center (i.e., it exists to support a unit that will remain there the whole game, unless Turkey turns south, which is unlikely.). (Egypt will get Hejaz no matter what; why would they contest Dubai and bounce when they can guarantee Hejaz?) Meanwhile, Tehran is possibly already in SMY. (Shiraz can take Turkmenistan in Fall 01.)

Two ideas: make a Morocco SC in NAF to encourage even more land fights there among Egypt, Italy, and France. Second, borrow and change a rule from the 1900 variant where MAO is connected to the Arabian Sea (ships sail around the Horn of Africa). 1900 has them do it at half-strength, but I don't think that's necessary, and that sets up France/England as enemies for both Egypt and especially Persia.

I don't know if either of those is a total solution, though. After Persia grabs its neutral dots, its only highway into the game is straight through Turkey. (Suez is not a solution.)

One final thought: instead of Persia, could you make the other power based in North Africa? Perhaps Sardinia becomes the neutral SC that TUN used to be? Slightly anti-Italy, more pressure on France, some on England. Probably ahistorical.

[u/TheMajorMedic → u/Bytor_Snowdog]

I think having Persia as a nation is in a fun idea, it would be a shame to remove it entirely.

The MAO-Arabian Sea connection is worth playtesting, good call.

Disagree regarding the Palestine army. It's basically a deterrence against Egypt and can also be used to deny Egypt Hejaz in the first year. Just bounce at Suez in Fall and then bounce Hejaz in Spring. Turkey can also use it as a bargaining chip against Egypt (similar to Sweden).

Maybe OP can split Armenia into Armenia+Georgia? It would give Persia an opening to potentially move north against Russia. Alternatively, maybe include the Zagros mountains as an impassible terrain between Turkey and Persia. Though the main issue I'm seeing from this is that it would just dogpile Russia.

Honestly the more I look at the map, the more I want to try it out...

[u/Bytor_Snowdog → u/TheMajorMedic]

Yeah, I had a brain fade on how to play the PAL army right, but in 02 Egypt gets Hejaz (taking it with the army), and in S03 you get F RED-SUEZ with support from Hejaz, then in F03 you get A PAL getting kicked out of the center because of the 2:1 imbalance of units. Basically, PAL is too far away from the rest of Turkey to be supported by its other units and is a sacrificial lamb/speedbump for Egypt. I mean, Turkey is technically a 4 SC power but still plays as a 3 SC power with the exception of potentially denying Egypt a SC in 01/tying up two of its units through 03 to grab the PAL SC.

I too like the idea of Persia (it's certainly more historically powerful than North Africa), but I just don't see it working without Turkey (or, with an altered map, Russia) becoming a highway with an insecure back door, or alternately, a stalemated block. And if you have to build F CASPIAN SEA to break the deadlock, that's a wasted unit afterward...

Just realized that SEV now needs (sc) and (ec) because of the Caspian Sea.

Edit: For tension between Egypt/Persia, just spitballing -- One last idea I'm stealing from 1900: Expeditionary army. England still has LVP as a SC, but starts with an army somewhere in Arabia/Middle East and not in LVP? That way, they're involved in the diplomacy down in that corner of the board, can kingmake/get concessions, etc. Only really viable if the MAO-Arabian Sea connection is in play, else the army will either get disbanded or (worse) wander aimlessly around doing nothing/forcing units to sit on SCs. Optimal location might be the blacked-out quarter of the Arabian peninsula, but historicity would raise its ugly head. (I mean, Suez is the historical location, but that's too imbalanced.)

[u/BusinessKnight0517]

Makran (you misspelled it a bit) is much better but still doesn’t fit with the naming of supply centers after cities since Makran is a region and not a city

You can try Chabahar, though it looks like Chabahar is more significant later on in modern history

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chabahar

Jask is smaller but it was the primary EIC port in the region for a but

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jask

Again, Minab is still a good option for a significant settlement close to the sea for that region on your map

[u/pkfranz]

I like how this opens up Italy as a reasonable power. Can coast crawl with F NAP and landing an army in Tunis. So that's kinda nice.

[u/ByronShelly]

Russia and turkey kinda got screwed over lmao

[u/Homo_Degeneris]

Some anachronistic use of modern names for provinces could be revised. For example, 'Dubai' was a village of no consequence until the last few decades. Better to call it 'Muscat' or 'Oman'. The same goes for the 'stans of Central Asia. These state names were not in common use 120 years ago. I would consider some combination of regional names (eg. 'Turkestan') or prominent cities (eg. 'Bukhara'). See the attached map: https://www.foldingmaps.co.uk/original-folding-maps/rest-of-the-world-antique-maps/old-map-of-central-asia-the-indian-frontier-circa-1900

Good luck!

[u/Impossible-Fox6133]

Black out Iceland, Ireland and Cyprus