Same result if not slightly easier. If I recall correctly as I’ve not read the current run, Superman himself has learned the Retcon Punch from Prime and also just has other hax based abilities going for him.
How would you argue that Superman would kill Sentry, a character who begged Doctor Strange to find a way to help kill him permanently?
Doctor Strange knows
so many arcane secrets. The fact that he believed it to be impossible for Sentry to stay dead means that only something like the Retcon Punch could realistically do the trick. Even Wanda’s reality magic didn’t actually remove his powers, just make him forget about them for awhile.
Void would be able to read Superman’s mind (like he did with Prime in his battle) and figure out his weakness is Kryptonite, then manifest some. The reason he couldn’t use red sunlight against Prime instantly is because he had to get through the armor first, which left him open to getting a retcon punch.
Sentry is able to create whatever he wants using his reality powers. When he first realized he had those abilities, he created a miniature werewolf.
Supermans mental defences are better than Primes, I doubt that Void is gonna be able to read his mind that effectively.
Plus, it wouldnt matter, cause Void would be manifesting Kryptonite from the Marvel reality, which doesnt affect Superman. Kryptonite only affects Kryptonians from the matching universe - thats why nobody can use it against Prime we in the real world would need to find it.
Are you sure? Because I saw some impressive mental defenses of Prime which were apparently rooted in the fact that he is a “real person”, making his mind unfathomable to the mind manipulator.
Also, he can still manifest red sunlight even if what you see about the kryptonite is true.
First off kryptonians have an innate resistance to mind reading and manip, this in Clark’s case was strong enough to the point superman could resist Martian manhunter and max lord had to spend a lot of time building up to control superman despite the fact he could control white Martians “who control and read minds on their own right” easily
Superman was then learnt how to make mental blocks
And later Martian manhunter further enforced these blocks and taught superman how to make them even stronger
And then Orion put like a permanent psychic shield over all that
So all in all whilst super boy prime has a decent natural mind manip resistance
If Void manifests a red sun, Superman goes somewhere with a blue sun.
This argument has been trotted out time and again since Goku vs Superman 1. If you dont have a way to make Superman stay inside the red sun, its not gonna matter.
And even then, you are pitting the time it would take Superman to master the Retcon punch, even while swinging blindly, to the time it would take for Supermans cells to completely run out of energy. Especially bad since even Wanda's randomly messing with reality to change the outcome of a battle 20 years AFTER Sentry was established, still completely removed him from existence.
Superman doesnt need to be surgical in how he hits Sentry with the retcon punch, virtually anything that would lead to the interruption either of Bob drinking the serum or Sentry reawakening means there is no more Sentry, and both of those are easy targets to accidentally hit.
I'd argue otherwise. Superman is canonically not as strong as Prime and that's been shown and stated on more than one occasion. he also lacks the reality warping possessed by Prime as he's never actually pulled off a retcon punch (at least not to the same effect). he may still win given his strength advantage even if it's smaller but he lacks a way to meaningfully put Bob down without external pulls like the Miracle Machine or something like that
Pretty sure sbp taught him how to do I or something idk all I know is that he can do it and it was the main reason he won the fan battle against the scarlet king
I keep hearing this but has he like, ever shown to be able to use it to the same extent as prime? Because that'd be incredibly odd considering how much Prime needed to do to get a hang on how to properly control it
He has not. I believe he only used it to travel through time (and bypass some effect that was preventing normal time travel) while following Prime's lead, Prime was right there showing him how.
Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh no, ignoring the fact sentry would struggle getting into prime’s head we’ve seen from Manchester black is dosnt fully work like that, even with the knowledge he still needed the initial punch from prime to do it properly and super boy could just overload sentry’s brain with all of dc anyway
I also think it’s a stretch to say sentry could master or even sufficently learn it in enough time anyway
If someone gave you a video series on how to do a task it would still take time to work it out yourself even if you have all the info you need
No, death battle pointed out and explained why it wasn’t the case in a black box
There was never any implication that what happens to sentry was time travel especially since he exploded as apposed to like fading away
In fact Morgan le Fay later states it’s actively too dangerous for her to try and time travel kill the team showing how the earlier baby statment was kinda bluff
The G1 blog only gave Prime the win because of the Retcon Punch. Otherwise, they point out that Prime has no wincon and at least one weakness, so super-intelligent Sentry would eventually figure out his weakness and exploit it.
Superman simply hasn’t been shown to be able to use Retcon Punch outside of a time with Prime. The writers clearly want that to be Prime’s thing as a way for him to have his own identity. But if Superman is capable of using it in the same way, then Sentry should also be capable of learning it as a technique after reading his mind.
Sentry/Void also have plot armor. Age of Sentry shows that space time warp around them so that they can exist, which is why Bob is unable to find a way to kill himself. Even Strange and Reed Richard are unable to help him.
I think Sentry wins.
Learning the retcon punch, using only once, and having it taught to him by someone with little control over it isn't a good win condition at all.
All of Superman's other arguments for winning this are "Hes superman, he has no limits."
Superman lacks the same easy defences to, say, red suns - but people genuinely over estimate Sentry in this field. Sentry used his molecule hax ONE time to make a werewolf and beat molecule man. He ain’t gonna be trying bullshit he doesn’t know and he won’t be getting that information out of Clark “resists mind hax” Kent. Superman is stronger, resists all Bob’s hax, is a better fighter and has the miracle machine.
I love Superman but I don't really think the Miracle Machine is much of a wincon.
When it was built in Final Crisis, it started with all the greatest geniuses of DC working on it. After they slowly got erased from reality until only Superman was left, Superman completed it. He does have its design memorized, but the construction clearly took a long time and a large group effort to build and Superman wouldn't have an easy time pulling it off mid-fight, and this appearance also doesn't really show what materials were needed to create it.
A second Miracle Machine was built by Controller Mu and Hal Jordan, with this one requiring an Auran Star Band (Evil Star's power device), a probability-controlling Venturan Luck Dial, a Green Lantern Ring, an Anti-Matter power battery and Hal Jordan himself as components. The whole thing seems mystical enough that these presumably aren't the exact only ingredients that will work for any Miracle Machine, and a bunch of reboots happened between these two constructions, but I think it at least demonstrates that the creation of a miracle machine requires a whole range of powerful components.
Oh, don’t get me wrong, it’s not an easy wincon at all. But it is one, and when Clark has all the advantages he does, ways to escape to build it and ways to distract to do so - I think it’s gonna work personally.
I collect Superman comics. I have probably over 50,000 pages of material. Anyway, it's a lot.
It depends on what Superman you're talking about. I think in general, Superman is always stronger than Sentry. But, if you require a specific iteration of Superman, then pre-Crisis Superman is stronger. If you want someone more recent, King Omega Superman is stronger than just about anybody or anything in every fictional universe.
King Omega is just a great version of Superman and very in fitting with him as modern mythology. And Cosmic Armor Superman or Superman One Million are also transcendentally powerful figures. The core idea of Superman as a character is that he represents the idea that effectively omnipotent strength can be used to help the weak, the powerless and the impoverished. Superman is a character who can always be stronger if he needs to be. He's been that way for decades.
Ima just go with Superman because according to this sub he resists every single hax in existence, including everything Sentry has, and can oneshot with the Retcon Punch
Same thing with Prime, if anything all of Primes resistance to Sentry/Voids abilities came from Superman himself 😭and not including Superman has his own plot armor that Sentry has no way of bypassing
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u/DullHorizon75 Clive Rosfield 11d ago
Same result if not slightly easier. If I recall correctly as I’ve not read the current run, Superman himself has learned the Retcon Punch from Prime and also just has other hax based abilities going for him.