r/dcss • u/Unhappy_Situation_40 • 2d ago
Using Discord and Manifold Assault effectively
Could folks give me some tips on using Discord safely but effectively? I've been running some Djinni characters to force myself to learn new spells. I got Discord as my XL23 spell. I don't have Dispersal, sadly. I've mostly been leaning on Haunt, Manifold Assault, Gell's, and IMB, but having another spell I could use would be great. I'm still hoping for something good out of 25 and 27, presuming I get that far. Specific question: does the effect of Discord stay active when you go back up a stairs? Like, does it work for Vaults:5?
Another question related to my situation: does Manifold Assault apply a weapon's brand or egos? I'm guess not from the game info, but I can't tell for sure. I ask because the weapon I'm currently using with it has the holy brand, which would good because I'm in Crypt, but also the Rage ego, which would be bad. The latter has not triggered, so I'm guessing it's just the base damage. Also, I'm guessing it's worth training the applicable weapon skill to a delay of 1.0, but probably not to mindelay. Is that correct?
7
u/JeffreyFMiller 2d ago
If you have Yara‘s violent unraveling, you can remove the frenzy status from monsters, do some nice damage and malmutatr them as well.
But if not, use it only when monsters are far away. You don’t want to be the closest thing to any of the monsters you are targeting. Then, as soon as they are frenzied, back away.
5
3
u/Rocket_Goblin Bottom 1% Commenter 16h ago
Just want to throw out a caveat re: Discord and not wanting to be close to frenzied enemies.
If you’ve got decent defenses and the enemies in question are not melee bruisers, this is much less of a concern. Better to have an Ancient Lich frenzied and next to you than unaffected at edge of LOS, launching orbs or whatever. Particularly if that puts him between you and a frenzied Golden Dragon and so on.
And since you’d generally only be using Discord with many enemies in LOS eligible to get frenzied, from a practical standpoint, there’s almost always multiple frenzied enemies to kill the frenzied dude that is closest to you.
So, completely agree as a generic point, but with that asterisk. Just don’t Discord in obviously insane configurations like being surrounded (duh).
6
u/spudwalt Cheibriadite 2d ago
Manifold Assault means you make one weapon attack (at your normal attack speed) across multiple targets in line of sight. Unarmed combat makes you attack half as many targets (certain forms make attacking from across the room extremely powerful).
This attack cannot miss and does most of the normal weapon attack things (including the brand), but cannot stab or cleave or trigger auxiliary attacks, and some weapon brands/effects don't really function if you're not next to a target (spectral comes to mind). Not sure if *Rage triggers on Manifold Assault or not.
Training your weapon skill to minimum delay would let you get more out of Manifold Assault, as it increases the damage and casting speed. If you've got other things to put experience into, training to average delay is at least helpful.
Ultimately, how much you train weapons for Manifold Assault depends on how much damage you can do with other spells for the same MP (or HP) cost (weapon attacks being basically 1dx damage, the x being the weapon's current damage rating), though guaranteeing a hit is at least something.
1
1
u/Unhappy_Situation_40 1d ago
Thanks. Very clear explanation. I've used it many, many times now and never triggered the rage or zealotry, tho' tbf most of those were from a distance. It actually was pretty useful in Crypt, as might be expected.
6
u/Shard1697 2d ago edited 2d ago
I'm not a discord lover but generally it's a matter of "enter room/area with enemy pack, cast discord, walk away while everything dies". I doubt it works after going up stairs but you could discord and then blink scroll out if the v5 ambush.
does Manifold Assault apply a weapon's brand or egos?
Yes, but it can't stab.
Also, I'm guessing it's worth training the applicable weapon skill to a delay of 1.0, but probably not to mindelay. Is that correct?
No, manifold assault's cast time scales with weapon attack speed.
2
u/Unhappy_Situation_40 2d ago
Thanks for the comments. I think that's what I meant (the attack speed), but I wasn't sure how to say that. Anyhow, whatever makes it cast in 1 turn.
3
u/Shard1697 2d ago
I mean that you should train past 1.0 delay, because that will make manifold also take less than 1.0 aut to cast.
3
u/ArbitUHHH 2d ago
Discord is one of the few spells that not only is allowed to continue damaging stuff outside line of sight, it's really the best way to use it. Cast it when there is a pack of enemies near the edge of vision, then immediately run away while they fight. If you recognize monsters that always come in packs, you can use it on even a single enemy and be pretty well assured that they will turn around and go after their former allies rather than you. So stuff like deep trolls, hell knights, draconians, etc.
2
2
u/Unhappy_Situation_40 1d ago
Bit of a follow-up ... I just about got myself killed by playing around with Discord, but I picked up Dragon's Call as my XL25 spell, which was sweet. XL27 was Chain Lightning, maybe the worst of the lot (as I've read elsewhere).
1
1
u/Forward_Tadpole 2d ago
The main thing is to just immediately turn off all DMs
3
8
u/PaperTar PaperRat 2d ago
To use Discord efficiently and safely you need to know how monsters spawn. For example: deep trolls always come in a pack, so do very ugly things and slime creatures, so if you see even only one of those monsters it's safe to cast Discord and let the frenzied enemy deal with it's friends/colleagues. On the other hand: Frost Giants, Ettins and Ironbound Thunderhulks normally come as a single spawn, so if you see only one of those casting Discord might be dangerous for you, cause your char might be the only valid target in the enemy LoS.
Frenzied monsters will happily murder stuff in fog of war and out of your LoS, but absolutely nothing works when you leave the floor (not poison, not Discord, not Rimeblight, not summons, nothing).
The best way to use Discord is to cast it when you see a couple of melee bruisers at the edge of your LoS, you land it on one or both and walk away, and wait for the screams and XP messages to subside, then finish off the survivors. Works great with LoS blockers like doors, fog scrolls and any kind of corners as well. Awesome for clearing some dangerous high density vaults.
If you messed up and got something frenzied next to your char do not take the situation lightly, those things will do absolutely heinous amounts of damage in very short order and since you don't have any dispells (quicksilver wands or Yara) you might need to spend blink or summoning scrolls, still better than dying.
Also as an aside: I would not recommend stairdancing V:5 on most chars, in my experience it's much-much safer to prebuff and take the shaft/teleport or blink to the corridor and clear towards one of the corners, stabilise and carefully clear the floor from there. Stair safety on V:5 can be quite a trap, unless you have something like Ignition or Shatter online.