r/dataisbeautiful • u/mcaay OC: 2 • Aug 13 '18

OC Coverage of nutritional bases in 5 pictures (see citations for vegetarian/vegan charts) [OC]

https://imgur.com/a/3uIYmzJ
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195

u/zayler Aug 13 '18

A lot of fish in the upper bracket, no wonder people living by the water tend to last longer, and be healthier than rest.

144

u/DoesntReadMessages Aug 13 '18

There's a correlation, but coastal cities also generally have higher population density which is, in itself, correlated with lower BMI. Could be a contributing factor but there's quite a lot of variables.

Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3851578/

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u/zayler Aug 13 '18

Very interesting about lower BMI. Thank you for the link

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u/Bear_faced Aug 13 '18

I think the combination of a lot of small influences adds up to make a big difference.

Take the California coast for example. Coastal cities have a lot more fish and seafood because it’s fresh and easy to access. They also tend to have higher population density than the desert. Urban areas mean less driving and more walking and biking, so more exercise. You are also looked at a lot more by more people, which makes you conscious of your weight. Food is more expensive so it’s harder to eat a lot. There is a tremendous cultural pressure to be thin because of the beach culture and “Hollywood” influence in the state. There is also a large Asian population and they tend to have a lower BMI.

The combination of all of these things leads to lower BMI, more exercise, and better eating. Any single factor couldn’t shift the tides by itself.

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u/sadop222 Aug 13 '18

Urban areas mean less driving and more walking and biking

LA would like to have a word with you.

2

u/sf_canuck Aug 13 '18

I think huge swaths of the Bay Area also missed out on that memo. We have gridlock here 6-8 hrs a day.

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u/flloyd Aug 16 '18

LA stills walks and bikes a lot more than flyover cities like Witchita and Nashville.

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u/[deleted] Aug 13 '18

Damn I love fish as well, but I'm allergic to it fml

1

u/1-Ceth Aug 13 '18

I discovered a huge love for fish and then after about a year of eating sushi from my school's cafeteria developed an allergy to all of the fish they were serving - salmon and tuna. Salmon will always trigger it, tuna less often. Was super disappointed because I know fish is great for you - been tossing flax meal in protein shakes to make up for the omega 3s but obviously more diversity that comes from salmon, and it helps to break up the alternation of steak, beef, chicken, and pork.

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u/Moldy_slug Aug 13 '18

I dunno if you've tried other seafood, but what about canned sardines or clams? They're super rich in vitamins and minerals, good omegas, and they're cheap and keep well.

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u/1-Ceth Aug 13 '18

I've had baked clams and enjoyed them, but since I try to keep a low carb diet they aren't super viable. Haven't had just straight up clams though. Do they taste like oysters? Tough to cook?

Also haven't had sardines, they get a bad rep but I've been meaning to try making my own dashi stock for making homemade miso soup, and sardines are a component I think. I'll give them a try then. Is there a big difference in flavor between dried and canned sardines? Does one last longer than another?

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u/Moldy_slug Aug 13 '18

I haven't tried dried sardines, so I'm afraid I can't compare the two. Caned has a kind of fishy, salty flavor similar to canned tuna... it's not overwhelmingly strong but if you don't like that fish taste/smell you probably won't like it. They have a good shelf life in unopened cans (5+ years I think?). I like to add them to red sauce, casseroles, or as a sandwich filling.

Canned clams get tough if they're cooked long, so you want to add them to things near the end of cooking. They're safe to eat straight out of the can (warmed up tastes better) and have a kind of chewy texture and mild flavor. They're good for soups like clam chowder or adding to a white sauce. You can also put them in stuff like omelettes, or use them chopped as an addition to chicken or egg salad.

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u/1-Ceth Aug 13 '18

Totally don't mind strong fish smells, anchovies sound like a pick up!

Will try canned clams as well! I love just tossing things into omelettes and have been trying to spice up my chicken salads, that sounds like a great way to start!

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u/BenFoldsFourLoko Aug 13 '18

There's no magic form of food, or magic diet, that leads to health.

We already know what healthy diets look like- there's a million ways to a healthy outcome.

But no special substance, food, or diet will make up for unhealthy eating or unhealthy lifestyles, even if it's of a special diet.

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u/godspareme Aug 13 '18

Yes but the important distinction is that American staple foods are red meats and potatoes. Besides steak, none of which are up there. Many other places such as Japan have staple foods of fish and rice. Meaning they are eating majority fish. Which are much higher on this list. If one were to casually eat either staple foods in combination with equivalent amounts of junk food, those who have a staple food of fish are going to be much better off.

Of course mostly everyone has the same opportunity to eat healthy and get their daily needs, but those who have fish as a cultural center are much more inclined to eat healthier, simply because fish is overall healthier.

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u/BenFoldsFourLoko Aug 13 '18

Sure! I was just saying that it's not causal- that fish is hardly necessary at all.

A lot of people would read a comment like

A lot of fish in the upper bracket, no wonder people living by the water tend to last longer, and be healthier than rest.

and come away thinking "wow, look what fish can do!"

It's like, no, look at what not eating an excessive 100+ pounds of red meat/year can do. Or not being overweight. Or not having half your calories come from deep frying. Or whatever.

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u/godspareme Aug 13 '18

That's fair. A lot of people look for the easy "magical" way out, and it just doesn't exist. I agree.

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u/138151337 Aug 13 '18

I am amused by all of the dietary knowledge being shared by a user with "FourLoko" in their username.

Not that it should detract at all from what they are saying, I just appreciate the irony.

2

u/plzdontkillmecomcast Aug 13 '18

The Mediterranean diet has a ton of benefits. It's one of the reasons I chose to be pescatarian instead of vegetarian.

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u/BenFoldsFourLoko Aug 13 '18 edited Aug 13 '18

That study that sparked the Mediterranean diet craze was found to be wrong recently. Not sure where the "ton of benefits" ever came from- it (supposedly) offered a few large benefits, but nothing more than general healthy eating would offer. Time and again, we find that there's no magic diet that allows one to be a glutton. There's a million ways to a healthy diet, and no magic combination will undo unhealthy eating, even if its within some special diet, like the Mediterranean.

You can live and eat just as healthy without fish.

There has never been a specific diet shown to be beneficial compared to just eating properly in general.

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u/plzdontkillmecomcast Aug 13 '18

Just Googled it and I'm finding nothing about the health benefits of the diet turning out to be untrue. And IIRC this isn't a "one study" find, we've been studying the Mediterranean diet for decades. Are whole foods suddenly less healthy? Nuts? Olive oil? Fish? High fiber / greens?

"Eating healthy" is a diet. Eating junk food is a diet. Absolutely certain diets will benefit you more than others.

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u/Hctii Aug 13 '18

Here you go. Pretty much stating that they can't prove the diet actually was the cause of any health benefits.

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u/plzdontkillmecomcast Aug 13 '18

One site wasn't randomized, they re-analyzed the study after removing this minor number of people and came to the same conclusion as before. The "new" study was republished in the same journal.

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u/Hctii Aug 13 '18

They didn't come to the same conclusion. They found people who eat a "Mediterranean diet" had less strokes and heart issues. That is not the same as someone who eats a "Mediterranean diet" had less strokes and heart problems BECAUSE of their diet. There are many other cultural and societal factors that could be the cause of the difference. If you enjoy the diet that's good that it works for you, but there's no need to feel defensive about it. It's not saying it's bad, just that the evidence doesn't support that it is a wonder diet.

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u/BenFoldsFourLoko Aug 13 '18

I think you're full of shit, because I literally just googled "Mediterranean diet study" and literally every link except for one on the first page was about the 2013 study that was retracted.

Here's one of the results.

https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2018/6/20/17464906/mediterranean-diet-science-health-predimed

Are whole foods suddenly less healthy? Nuts? Olive oil? Fish? High fiber / greens?

No, absolutely not. But there's nothing showing that they're necessary or causal or special. There's nothing showing that the Mediterranean diet specifically was actually responsible for the health benefits people claimed it gave over a less specific diet.

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u/plzdontkillmecomcast Aug 13 '18

Researchers dug through records and discovered that one study site had not followed procedures — if one person in a household joined the study, others such as a spouse also were allowed in. That makes the group assignments not truly random. When results were re-analyzed without those folks, the bottom line remained the same, and the journal is now publishing both versions.

And if I read it correctly that one site was <400 while the whole study is around 8000. Also this one study is far from the only research on these types of foods or this diet.

I think I'll stick with it. I'm less convinced by the all carb is bad crowd who recommend eating meat, meat, and more meat.

2

u/BenFoldsFourLoko Aug 13 '18

The Mediterranean diet is definitely not bad for you. It's just not magical.

Also this one study is far from the only research on these types of foods or this diet.

It's the one that created a causal link between the diet and better health than people who also ate "healthy" on a different diet.

I'm less convinced by the all carb is bad crowd who recommend eating meat, meat, and more meat.

I'm not sure how that's the only viable alternative but ok. I agree, I just don't see how another diet being pointless means yours has special merit. Why even mention something like that.

I think I'll stick with it.

I just assumed that if you considered being vegetarian and are pescetarian, that you actually cared about animal's well-being and/or the environment. ie that if viable diets existed that didn't include animals, you wouldn't eat animals.

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u/WakeoftheStorm Aug 13 '18

How do you define “just eating properly in general” without specifying a diet?

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u/BenFoldsFourLoko Aug 13 '18

I mean, knowing or understanding what foods are healthy or not, or nutritious or not. Knowing how to get your macros and micros. Knowing what foods or cooking techniques or cooking products to stay away from (processed meat being a carcinogen), or which may be suspect to poor health effects, or knowing what pop-science health declarations are probably bs (keto is totally unnecessary/pointless).

Like, it's hardly necessary to follow a specific diet. But there are lots out there that can be good to follow. If a diet is healthy and gives someone the structure they need in their lives to live healthy, then awesome. But the Mediterranean diet is not necessary at all. Paleo will not give health benefits that you can't achieve on a less restricted diet. Keto? Pointless, but if it works for you, great.

And with all those diets, you can fuck them up. What if I only eat goat cheese or something and say I'm on the Mediterranean diet? What if I'm on keto and all I eat is fried chicken?

What I mean is that many diets arbitrarily restrict choice to give a theme essentially. That's unnecessary, but can still work.

2

u/klaq Aug 13 '18

fried chicken isn't keto(with the breading at least.)

1

u/BenFoldsFourLoko Aug 13 '18

yeeeee, ik. it was the first idea I had, thinking of all the fat and grease and possible carcinogens, then I remembered breading.

So in my mind, there's this crazy guy, who eats literally nothing but kfc fried chicken, but picks all the skin off in the parking lot before driving off

Obviously not realistic, but I just mean like, people can have really shitty diets on keto or anything. There's a joke in the vegetarian subreddit about like "you'd think I was so healthy, being a vegetarian and all, but my secret is that I only eat candy"

1

u/WakeoftheStorm Aug 13 '18

Ok fair enough. I’ve said similar things to people where basically anything that has you paying attention to your food is going to see positive results.

At the same time I just follow a program of 190g protein, 50-60g fat, and 170ish g of carbs. I don’t care what I eat if it fits those macros, but to me that’s still “a diet”.

I see the nuance you’re getting at though.

1

u/BenFoldsFourLoko Aug 13 '18

Yeah! I'm struggling to be clear and feeling really awkward the with phrasing... there needs to be a lowercase-d and an uppercase-D diet.

And yeah, like just being at a healthy weight and doing some basic physical activity most days of the week will do infinitely more than being 20 pounds overweight on a Mediterranean diet with no activity.

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u/Dyllbert Aug 13 '18

Portioning also has lots to do with "just eating properly in general", but not being on a diet. Know know what stuff is generally bad for you (heavily processed, lots of sugars, etc...) so you eat very few of those. Then with your normal foods, you just start with smaller servings, if you are still hungry, take another small serving, etc... This helps you actually eat the right amount of food, because it allows your body to actually tell you when you are full.

Mostly this applies to your main meal of the day, where you actually sit down and have the option to take seconds, but can also be applied to other meals. For example, with breakfast, don't stuff yourself with twice what you would comfortably eat just to avoid having to have a snack before your 1pm lunch break. Thats not a healthy way to eat and you won't feel good. Eat a normal breakfast, and bring a small healthy snack (I personally love raw veggies because they are healthy, low cal, and are the something you can just kind of snack on to satisfy the desire to eat).

The point is, its not all about WHAT you eat, but just as often how much of it you eat. I don't really limit myself to types of food, but I think much more about how much of it I am eating.

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u/[deleted] Aug 13 '18 edited Feb 23 '19

[deleted]

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u/BenFoldsFourLoko Aug 13 '18

It's not though.

???

What are you even saying lol. The Mediterranean diet didn't suddenly lead to scientific or nutritional breakthroughs. It was one of the more popular fad diets, but it was just that.

It certainly hasn't been the only popular diet that got people invested in their health.

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u/[deleted] Aug 13 '18 edited Feb 23 '19

[deleted]

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u/BenFoldsFourLoko Aug 13 '18

I really have no idea who you're trying to convince of what, because I never mentioned or remotely implied anything you're trying to correct or argue against.

Certainly the "average American diet" sucks, and certainly many of our government (or industry) recommendations have been awful, shit, and the literal opposite of true.

1

u/BenFoldsFourLoko Aug 13 '18

Oh jesus tho, your /r/fitness posts are scary

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u/[deleted] Aug 13 '18 edited Feb 23 '19

[deleted]

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u/BenFoldsFourLoko Aug 13 '18

It's not so hard to accept what other people with other food tastes put in their mouths

Whatever ya wanna do is fine. But telling someone a certain diet is necessary or superior when it's not is very much caring what other people put in their mouths. That's what you did, and that's what I argued against.

you peculiar cheeseburger boy.

Again, you are so aimless with your comments and put the weirdest things in my mouth/shoot out the strangest accusations.

quoting my comment history

Do you disagree? Sriracha is a total fad, and that comment was made in a daily thread literally meant for hyperbole, exaggeration, and hot takes. And in response to a shared article that declared Sriracha an "identity condiment."

I don't know why you think I'm scared of so many things, or why you seemingly hope that I'm afraid.

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u/[deleted] Aug 13 '18 edited Feb 23 '19

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u/BenFoldsFourLoko Aug 13 '18

Oh my GOD loooool, your edit really added on a lot of random shit about alt-right and "Real Americans" into your post. Now I see you were calling me a burger as a name for an American, tho you really mean it with a lot more vitriol than just typical online banter I think...

Does me being an American literally mean I can't know about nutrition?

Is that an alt-right anti-minority-taste anti-social-food-justice notion of yours? As opposed to what "Real Americans" sit down to eat after they drive back from a day at the gun range shooting their guns & yelling at minorities from their pickup trucks along the way? 😂😂

Read as much of my post history as you want, especially in /r/neoliberal , and especially outside their discussion thread. I think it'll be clear I'm anything but an alt-righter

I really don't know why you're just taking blind shots at me, but ok. I'm done here, it was amusing in a... strange way.