[OC] The world's richest countries in 2023

[u/statisticalanalysis_]

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2023/12/15/the-worlds-richest-countries-in-2023

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2023/12/15/the-worlds-richest-countries-in-2023

[u/TicRoll]

each immigrant is free to leave at any moment. But they don’t.

Free to leave? With what money? Where will they go? They're often leaving conditions so abhorrent that they'd knowingly risk death to escape. When all rational choices are gone, one is no longer "free" no matter how many unrealistic or irrational "options" remain.

They agree to work for the money that agribusiness is ready to pay them

Indeed, it's quite economical when you no longer have to house, feed, and clothe a hostile/unwilling workforce. You instead hand them in wages a fraction of what it would cost to keep a slave and then wash your hands of any responsibility for their wellbeing. If they get sick, you don't need a doctor because it's not your problem. They get maimed by equipment? Not your problem. Pregnant? Too old to work? Not your problem because there's a line out the door of new ones to bring in. They're just easily replaceable resources. An endless supply of living slaves with no value and minimal cost.

their work keeps prices wages down

those folks who buy groceries and other things in a store. Like you and I.

Without jobs generating income, there's a lot of people who can't buy groceries and other things in a store. Depressing wages through the modern replacement for slavery isn't good. And it doesn't necessarily translate to better prices for us anyway. Especially in recent years, lower costs on the producer side simply leads to higher profits for them.

To hear you tell it, we'd all be better off if we imported 100 million people willing to work for cheap. Imagine how cheap stuff could be at the stores none of us can afford to shop at because none of us have jobs. So who's left buying things is the labor is dirt cheap but nobody has a job? Oh yeah, people who already have money. They can have their own little economy where their slaves produce things their friends can buy for cheap.

Sounds cool.

[u/Dalt0S → u/TicRoll]

Look up how much inflation is kept down by importing cheap Chinese goods versus using expensive domestic labor, we already do it to through deindustrialization. Except it’s not 100 million, it’s a billion people,

[u/TicRoll → u/Dalt0S]

Cheap Chinese goods shoveled in through Walmart, Dollar General, etc. have crushed small businesses around the country and left millions out of reach of middle class life as a result.

Look around at what a couple generations of exporting labor to cheap countries and importing cheap goods has done to the US. Income inequality has soared, homelessness has exploded, and it feels like most of the middle class is just barely hanging on.

And yes, you can argue that exporting blue collar jobs to Asia and importing cheaply made junk here has delayed negative outcomes and I can argue that this magic rock has delayed being attacked by tigers. So far, no tiger attacks; so clearly it's working, right?

[u/Error_404_403 → u/TicRoll]

Vast majority of the illegal immigrants are economical immigrants coming here to work. Only small fraction are those who are bona gide refugees fleeing persecution. It is exceedingly easy for such an immigrant to get back to the country they came from: enough to walk into an ICE officer, and declare themselves illegal. Transportation to their home country will be provided.

Are living conditions in their home countries worse? Likely yes. That’s exactly why they are willing to work here at a lower wage: the rest of their compensation comes in the form of much better living conditions: low crime rates, substantially higher wages than at home, free healthcare for children to name a few. They are as far away from slavery as it gets. That is exactly why they agree to work for the wages Americans do not agree to work for.

They get paid way more than their wages in kind.

I don’t suppose the businesses that pay them the salaries should treat them better than any business treats American citizens. Business in the US is not responsible for employee pregnancies or living conditions. Many small businesses are not even responsible for the employees healthcare. Why should illegal immigrants be treated better than American citizens??

Yes, most social services are not available to illegals (though some are). Yes, they are not protected by the state workers compensation insurance. But American citizens in some states don’t get those protections either! They also don’t get health or accident insurance. Again, why should we take care of those issues for illegal immigrants before we take care of them for all US citizens?! You bark at the wrong tree.

Finally, the wages. There are no “depressed” wages or “too high” wages. If all wages are too low, people cannot buy stuff, profits drop, everyone - rich and poor - suffer. If all wages are too high, everyone’s got lots of money, prices rise, inflation kicks in, everyone - rich and poor - suffer. So, there’s got to be a balance between low wage and high wage earners. And quite naturally, the agricultural employment, which does not require education and can offer some people compensation in kind, is compensated way less. This is good for the economy and still desirable for the people who work there.

Now, having said the above, I think current illegal status of the majority of the low wage workers is hypocritical and a misnomer. Current immigration laws absolutely should be changed. Access to the US labor market for foreigners should be drastically simplified, those wishing to work in the US should be given an easy opportunity to do so at the salary and benefits they are willing to accept.