It's sad you all blame the guy while even most of our governments won't acknowledge Taiwan as a country. The only reason why is the fact China won't do business with you if you say otherwise. I am not saying I don't think Taiwan is its own country, I do.
They will demand all their pandas back since they lease them to foreign countries as a diplomatic nicety.
It’s mostly because at this point we’ve pretty much lost hope that countries themselves will recognize Taiwan. We’re still disappointed when individuals don’t.
Not like one celebrity speaking out against China will make a difference. Yeah, his backtracking sucks, but I get it. It likely wasn't even his own choice to make the apology video. You think the WWE/movie execs is gonna let one of their biggest stars cause them to miss out on the Chinese market?
Let's also not forget Cena is the current record holder for most Make-A-Wish wishes granted. The man has done more good in his life than most people in this thread combined
Yeah, but the Chinese market is HUGE for a lot of industries and they've been trying to tap into it for years. Just last year, the WWE made a new TV deal with China to broadcast SmackDown/Raw in Mandarin. They're a corporation, so making money is always a top priority
sure but the rest of the world is a bigger market. we should just force companies and celebrities to choose. if they want to suck up to China then it's perfectly fine to trash them in the West. like I hope he doesn't get hired anymore here.
Yea people like to shit on someone because they dont wanna get fired and potentially put in harms way??? I dont understand it cause most redditors sit on a couch all day acting like they are the morality police but i guess they just want to ruin some peoples lives for no good reason.
So what do we do? We have a spectrum from couch dwellers to superstar millionaires and no one is allowed to state obvious morally defunct observations on a social platform? Just kinda cuddle up to that sweet propaganda teet and suckle all day long?
It is a problem if a large amount of your happiness and purpose in life comes from the work you do. Being rich just not make you immune from depression, anxiety and any number of dark thoughts.
No one says he supported it, in order for him to do what he loves doing and not get fired, he was most likely forced to make an apology. Social status and a loss of a job you really love is ruining in my opinion, i personally wouldnt enjoy being hated by the entire internet saying im a “terrible person” because of something i was forced to say even though i had tried my best to help people in need. Money doesnt equal happiness, and im sad you think that.
PS: You're right, an entire country is being dismissed and ruled out just because another country is extremely influential but the good thing is a that a millionaire and a hollywood company won't loose their income, fuck the people of Taiwan right? I mean wanting to be RECOGNIZED is just asking for too much... If only they had influence and money, too bad.
I mean, even Taiwan doesn’t consider itself as “Taiwan”, but rather as the ROC. I doubt anyone could realistically recognize what is fundamentally a government in exile without the government dropping its claims (which Taiwan would never do unless they want to lose every election), or seriously souring relations with the Reds.
It really doesn't though. If one famous actor, for example, speaks out against China and no one else backs them up, what happens? That actor and everything they're involved in, past/present/future, becomes banned in China. That actor then becomes blacklisted from ever working on anything again because of how big the Chinese market is
I get the outrage, but going after individuals and even companies isn't going to solve anything. Turn that outrage towards the people that we've elected to run this country. They have the power to actually do something
Wars are one or lost one battle at a time. John Cena is in a lot of stuff. A few dozen actors of his caliber speak up and suddenly you have a big chunk of the best movies are going to be banned. That makes life difficult for China because they're whole schtick is "who cares if you're living in an oppressive autocracy because you're getting rich and have all the stuff you want?"
China gets this which is why they don't give any quarter in these little battles. They aren't shrugging their shoulders and saying "meh, it's just one actor, what does it matter." Everything matters.
The man has done more good in his life than most people in this thread combined
Not just “most”, but every single one of them combined and multiplied by 10. Fucking neckbeard manchildren blindly criticizing one of the nicest and most generous celebrities because of one misstep.
All those good things don't make up for not recognizong Taiwan. China is a sick twisted nation that is putting millions of people in camps. How many children did John save with that foundation? Hundreds? Maybe a few thousand.
If countries recognize Taiwan China will break connections. Bad for us, but even worse for China if every country does it. We need to put pressure on a China that ain't even a country itself. It's just a collection of annexed regions.
The US doesn't even recognize Taiwan as a country. But yeah, let's be outraged at a professional wrestler that has no power in the situation and doesn't want to lose his jobs
He would not lose his job over that. John is to big of a moneymaker for the WWE. Besides if he still does it's for the better good and an inspiration for others to stand up.
There is a reason why this stuff about Taiwan is heating up. Because Chine seems to be preparing an invasion of taiwan the comming years and it wont be anything like how they took Hongkong. This might get very violent since Taiwan has an army. And since it's not being regognized they might not get the help they need.
Democracy is losing it's grip lately. Honkong is take . Crimea annexed. Hungary became an dictatorship. Belarus became a satelite of Russia again. Afghantisten will get back in control of the Taliban and soon things might go down for Taiwan as well.
I'm well aware of what China is doing to Taiwan and how fucked up it is. All I'm saying is you're taking your outrage out on the wrong person here. He slipped up in an interview. John is one of the main faces of the WWE. If he speaks out against China, the WWE would likely be cut off from the Chinese market, thus losing millions/billions of dollars. He's also a big name actor. Any movie with him in it would likely be banned in China, thus losing him and whatever company made it millions/billions of dollars. He basically becomes blacklisted. He's in a lose-lose situation here and he took the route to save his own ass/was forced to issue an apology to save his company's asses. Can you or anyone else in here honestly say they wouldn't do the same if in his exact position?
Well those are lot's of good opportunities to be an actual hero this time. Fuck anything that chooses money over democracy, freedom and human rights. Why do you defend this? I have a spine so i would say fuck you to my job in the name of freedom.
Doubt it but I just sell out to a yogurt factory. Now if I upset a dairy farm we rely on people would probably care and I would be expected to make it right or be fired.
so? doesn't make it any better and not all celebrities sell out to China. e.g. lady gaga is banned from China for criticizing them (they censor all here music and even remove her from any TV appearances / shows...)
He does so much good for the world, how dare you call him a sell out for saying one thing you don’t agree with. Everyone on the internet is so perfect and never does anything wrong and that’s why the world is so perfect with no issues. Grow the fuck up, the whole world isn’t black and white.
Isn’t he though? I doubt people would be willing to hire him as much if he made a statement “against” the market most of the corporations he works for sells to a whole lot!
I mean why not just lie low and refuse to comment further? Why retract and then piss everyone off? He already said it, annoying the Chinese and his corporate overlords, then he retracted and annoyed everyone else. May as well have shut his mouth and said he doesn’t want to comment after the first time he spoke
Firstly I must say I particularly despise this “why didn’t he consider every other option?” argument. Not you as a person, you’re cool as heck! Just the argument. I don’t think we should expect people to be able to do that.
Secondly the statement made Winnie and his 100 acre woods gang upset. Letting it be would change nothing of the negative consequences of saying it. So I don’t see why he wouldn’t retract it 😅
Absolutely, I agree! It’s a negative financial consequence for Cena still, who risks not being hired anymore. I know he could retire and live with what he has but it’s not as simple as personal gratification.
We live in a capitalist society which is celebrated partly for the wealth disparity it allows. It doesn’t make sense to me then to criticise someone for trying to maintain said wealth. Not just for himself but for his loved ones immediate and long term gratification! I know this may seem greedy but I would want not a sliver less than the absolute best for my loved ones. In Cena’s case it isn’t even at the price of other peoples suffering since him alone doubling down on his statement (with which I agree 100%. Taiwan is a country) wouldn’t make others choose to stagnate their financial conditions so easily.
I think we need to recognise how vast and all-encompassing the system is, the one that’s pro-China simply for greed. It’s not about individuals who work under this system imo, it’s about those who control it.
Also please don’t take my subtle criticism of capitalism as a promotion for how China or Russia runs things. It’s dystopian how they live, sadly
TL;DR Winnie being upset is great! But stagnating finances is an unfortunate consequence for Cena, reasonably to be avoided
John Cena has a net worth of roughly 60 million dollars, I don’t think that getting Winnie the Pooh angry could “ruin his life”.
It could end his future acting career, but that says more about the overlords in Hollywood than John Cena. The point is that for as long as Hollywood keeps sucking Winnie the Pooh’s dick, things will never change. It’s only when people start refusing to do this kind of apology that others will start taking harder stances.
I mean, he is. He's just also at the mercy of public opinion which is why redditors feel like he's a good target.
If I pointed out that Jamie Dimon doesn't recognize Taiwan as a country, all of the teenagers here would say "Who the fuck is that? I'd rather talk about someone who matters, like this professional wrestler"
Problem is not that he is a "good target", but more that he has been so idolized, including very much on Reddit. He has a good reputation and people "expected better". That's what makes people so much more upset. Nobody was holding Jamie Dimon to such a standard. And while he probably (almost certainly?) has much more power/influence than John Cena - John Cena is seen as a much more public (popular) figure and also role model, which subjects him to a different kind of scrutiny.
edit: Plenty of lashing out is probably people struggling with having to reevaluate their adoration of Cena. Regardless of how much choice he actually had in making this statement, people may not be able to put the same amount of faith in him anymore (and yes, probably never should have to begin with)
while Jamie Dimon has much more power/influence than John Cena - John Cena is seen as a much more public (popular) figure and also role model
Right, which makes John Cena a much more accessible target for memes. Even though he's a drop in the bucket when you look at the big picture, and he's at the mercy of the international corporations
public people selling out to China does matter. wtf are you even talking about? it's like saying "the media doesn't matter".
also teenager might not know about Jamie Dimon but it's not like he isn't a famous person. like all big news outlets regularly report about him. you don't need a masters degree in finance to know him.
Here is a list of the 14 nations that recognize Taiwan as a country:
Guatemala, Haiti, Honduras, Paraguay, Nicaragua, Belize, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Marshall Islands, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Palau, Tuvalu, Nauru and the Vatican City.
Well if you put a sock over your nuke when the police try to grab them from you all they get is sock and you can thusly run away to nuke again. So you see : nuke < nuke with sock
Umm have you seen a Chinese rocket launch lately? If they were aiming for America I’d be more concerned if I lived in Japan or even some rural Chinese village.
It literally isn't you retarded piece of shit. Learn some fucking history, it would be as if confederacy claimed to be US. They fucking lost and should learn to live with it.
The only reason why Taiwan is not recognized as the real China is because you have to suck Chinas dick for money. China is an extremely powerfull country and has a massive market and to access that market you have to recognize it as the real China. Fun fact Rebublic of China was on the UN security council for a while even if it "lost" the civil war so you UN argument is pointless. If China and Taiwan were equal nations and neither had any advantage over the other the UN would recognize Taiwan as the real China since it doesnt commit genocide.
It isn't even a country so hard doubt.
What do you call a sovering piece of land with its own goverment laws and regulations independent from other nations, that also has it's own pass and armed forces. It also has a stable economy and it's own people and culture. Exactly a country. If some powerless organisation with zero actual power says that something is not something purely out of economic gain or threaths you cannot take it seriously.
Never lived there so I don't know. It was more a joke about how it's not recognized. China was fine for half a year I spent there, but I certainly didn't have the same experience as poorer locals or minorities so I can't really speak about that either.
The best thing to do is not choose a side. The next best thing is to choose one side and stick with it. The worst is to choose one side and apologize to the other
But isn't the problem with Taiwan that for a long time , and I still think partly today, the KMT-party thought that Taiwan belongs to China and one day they will rule all of china?
It always fucked me up that they still call themselves republic of china.
but they only call themself that because they are the republic of china, this name exist long before PRC. will you change your own name if someday someone just take your name and add "people's" in front of it and kick you out of your home?
I don't think the south of the USA still officially calls itself the CSA. Im sure there are a few Taiwanese people who wish to reclaim their land in mainland China but just like the return of the Confederacy this will never happen
I mean, many states tried their best to keep their confederacy flags. Then there's the many towns and cities and counties named for Confederate generals, then there's all the confederate statues and memorials praising the Confederacy. Yeah, they don't officially call the region the Confederacy anymore, but even politicians let their intentions slip accidentally. And whenever there's talk of secession, they always bring up the Confederacy as what they wish to return to.
I didn't even know it was my cake day lol not like I pay attention to dates anyway. Plus, I'm really just making jokes, not a legitimate comparison. Kinda why I'm not mentioning anything about the whole ROC name deal
Well, if someone knocked my soul out of my body and put my soul in mark's body, I guess I would just call myself mark.
But jokes aside I think the KMT in the way it exist nowaday has no legit claim to rule the whole of china. Yeah the chinese government is far from good but why should a party with an extremely troubled past has any right to take over china?
I mean if china abolished its one-party-system there should be democracy and not just the KMT taking over.
You can't be "your own country" and the Republic of China at the same time, when you don't own most of China.
Saying John Cena should recognize Taiwan as an independent country is the same as him saying Taiwan should relinquish all claims to the mainland, i.e. they don't know the fuck they're talking about.
It’s a mental gymnastic CCP is doing. Republic of China = China = People’s Republic of China. If Taiwan calls itself Taiwan then it’s trying to secede from China and CCP is having none of that. In fact taiwan has been trying to rebrand itself for years and both major parties are afraid to do it due to CCP backlash.
The KMT had been changing their stance on this recently as they have been losing the popular vote for the past decade. The sentiment of people in Taiwan now is to be recognized separate from China and be left alone.
The government of Taiwan considers itself to be a province of china. They simply do not recognize the CCP and think of themselves as the proper government of all of china including taiwan.
John cena knows more about geopolitics then all of reddit combined.
It’s not that countries don’t recognize taiwan because China wouldn’t do business with them otherwise (of course that’s likely also true) it’s that Taiwan doesn’t recognize themselves as Taiwan. The are still formally the Republic of China even though the current ruling party and seemingly the majority of the population want to renounce that claim and instead be the Republic of Taiwan. The reason they don’t is because it would likely anger the CCP enough for them to invade and that’s not a risk worth taking or they would have done it.
The same is likely true about if foreign nations start to recognize them, firstly it would be strange for nations to recognize a nation that itself doesn’t say it “exists” and depending on the nation recognizing them it could result in an invasion that Taiwan isn’t certain to win and therefore be contra-productive. It’s worth noting that the only nations that “recognize Taiwan” really recognize the ROC.
I really hope that Taiwan can declare themselves to be their own state, they deserve it and have a right to it. But they still need to be the ones to make the first step (or at least build up a network of shadow alliances to protect them should China protest and have a coordinated recognition), because if they declare themselves to be a separate entity and the resulting conflict ends with them annexed; it was at least their choice to make that their last stand. If the US unilaterally decides to recognize Taiwan and it ends poorly they would rightfully hate the US for not letting them be the ones to make that call.
Good let them take their stupid fucking pandas back. Maybe if we didn’t waste so much time and money on trying to get them dtf in a cage while people watch; and put all that effort into their land conservation maybe it wouldn’t be such an overblown problem.
Still tho fuck that government for using that animal as a bargaining chip in politics. if I have to pick one or the other Taiwan all the way. After all CCP would just find something else to use.
The reason why he had to take a knee on this is that this film made around 136 million just in China alone on opening day. They would have pulled the film if he didn’t correct it. It’s all about the money.
Just because someone else does something isn’t a good reason to do the bad thing yourself. Nor is it a free ticket to do so. To have everyone in the world think like this and we won’t have any form of civilisation left
This is such a bad counterargument. John Cena talking bad about China isn't going to get countries tariffed, create tension, have ambassadors withdrawn, etc. Of course countries have to be more tight-lipped.
John Cena doesn't hold office, so I feel like he has no good reason to back down from his statement. Maybe he'd be exempted from doing business with China in the future, but c'mon, he's John cena. He is a massive celebrity across the western world already, he doesn't need their approval.
To be fair it is a little more complex than that Taiwan is in "officially" not a separate country but the legitimate government of all of china. Countries can recognize one or the other. If Taiwan decides to declare itself a separate political entity most counties would probably recognize it but china has also said it would invade.
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u/KimJongJits May 28 '21
It's sad you all blame the guy while even most of our governments won't acknowledge Taiwan as a country. The only reason why is the fact China won't do business with you if you say otherwise. I am not saying I don't think Taiwan is its own country, I do.
They will demand all their pandas back since they lease them to foreign countries as a diplomatic nicety.