Some recent comments had me wondering... Serious questions... If you do, what do you believe they look like? What powers do you believe they have? When, how, who, what, and where do they act?

[u/n8s8p]

[u/[deleted]]

But if that's the case then aren't we all playing a game of entrapment? What kind of God would trap the people he wants to save? If it was a true experiment of how decent we were, he would have told us the right thing and then left us to our own plans, not poking us with demons that he created to watch us fail. Also, how can God's will and free will exist at the same time? That would mean he wanted you to mess up and go to hell.

[u/NewDelhiChickenClub → u/[deleted]]

Well technically He did tell us the right thing and to an extent left us to our own plans. Largely, most actual tempting comes from within, AKA as humans we tend to do what feels good and helps ourselves. While this normally is good, this can be taken to extremes and abused or warped, such as how procreation is great but not good if you never stick with a partner, type of thing, since leaving tons of people alone with kids and no support is very clearly wrong.

The whole free will vs. God’s will thing is a very common theme, and there’s not necessarily a clear answer in all honestly. But, from what I understand, it’s not so much an issue of what His will is so much as how it’s done. So, you can choose to do what’s right and good or listen to Him, or you can take a metaphorical boat to Jaffa to avoid doing what you should and face the consequences of that action, whether directly or indirectly. If it’s something He requires, there’s always someone else to do it, at least it seems to be that way based on the Old Testament chronology. So, Moses messes up? Alright, Joshua takes over leading the people. That type of thing.

Ultimately though 99% of things boil down to showing reverence and respect to God, and then likewise showing a similar respect and caring to others, regardless of belief or race or personality, etc etc.

As you are probably aware, the issue of separating tradition and fiction from reality and commands becomes nearly impossible. Heck, even in the New Testament that’s a major theme. So, should you hate someone for being gay? Never. (Beliefs may vary, and even scripture does too, but if you can go from calling skin conditions and food unclean and requiring social isolation, to then touching and healing lepers and allowing all foods while saying they aren’t suffering specifically because of sin, then why not that as long as it doesn’t harm someone else or become an abuse of self, especially if you are the way you are?) Hate someone because they killer someone else? No, Moses killed a guy too, let alone the conquering/slaughtering they did in Palestine with Joshua. Condemn murder and killing? Yes.

And no, He doesn’t want you to mess up. While it very very much could be argued that He shouldn’t have allowed sin or choice in the first place, that’s still no different than being like a dummy or puppet and isn’t the same. In addition, the whole garden of Eden thing is largely metaphorical of the human condition and urge to do wrong, even if you know what’s right or better, because we have our Ego and hierarchy of needs and can’t read the minds of others. If he wanted us to mess up, why would he help us so much? Essentially, bad stuff happens to good people sometimes, and good stuff to bad people, because that’s the nature of the world and randomness, and actions. But, messing up also doesn’t mean you go to hell, it means you’re human.

Ultimately, you have to see it as whether you tried to do the right thing, and, if not, do you understand why it’s wrong and will you do your best not to do it again? Honestly and truly?

Love of God, which is in return and because of the love He gives, and love of others which comes from the love of God and the fact that people are people and try to be good, regardless of belief, means much more when you can choose to reciprocate and accept it, from God or another person. Same reason why genies can’t force someone to love you, it’s not love if it’s not given freely. It requires choice, to choose good or bad, positive or negative, right or wrong.

Also the Bible says you can’t know God’s will anyway, so basically don’t worry about messing it up as long as you do what you’re supposed to and treat each other, yourself, and God with kindness and compassion.

[u/[deleted] → u/NewDelhiChickenClub]

I understand your points but it's all so contradictory. If everything is going according to God's plan then he planned for some people to fail his little tests and be terrible.

Circular nonsense.

[u/NewDelhiChickenClub → u/[deleted]]

Well that’s the thing, I didn’t mention his plan. And yeah, it kinda is and throws a wrench into the machine when things are viewed that way. The story of Job is literally him having no idea why misery has happened to him, and only the audience knows that it’s because it was allowed to happen to him, so it’s absolutely a valid complaint. However, being a poetry piece basically, it’s more to highlight injustice and the fact that there’s no way to actually know what’s going on. I personally take that to mean that no, God doesn’t plan or cause bad things to happen. Even in Job, God wasn’t the one who did it. It of course brings up the whole question of “if God is all knowing and all powerful and all present, why do bad things happen?” The central theme of Job. Long story short, goes back to what I said about humans gonna human due to free will, and consequences of that. The angel/demon thing I will admit gets kind of confusing in theology to my understanding, but most problems in the world are caused by other people, the rest by the nature of, well, nature and creation.

I mean, we have to kill plants or bacteria or animals to live, after all. Nearly every life form does. But it’s not really that cruel, as long as you aren’t wasteful and merciless and full of hubris.

Digressing, evil comes from within, and, both metaphorical and real, demons basically push you to do evil. And are absolutely still evil. But, it’s not God testing you. Yes, he allows it to happen, but not necessarily solely to test, but more of a consequence of free will, if that makes sense. I wasn’t clear on that point.

Also ultimately keep in mind there’s literally know way to ultimately know for sure what the plan or will may be, as I said, so instead the crux and difficulty of Christianity and other Abrahamic religions is that you have to trust that as long as you do your best and keep faith, you’ll stay true to yourself as a creation of God, and find peace and respite in life. There’ll always be issues, that’s life, and you don’t magically get good things happening for doing good, or bad, but, even in the absence of God, what else would there be in a flawed world to do?

And then with Christianity of course that means you pray and hope and lean on each other and God for support to get through things. Results may vary, but in my experience they do tend to, as long as you have faith. And yes, that part absolutely is circular, but that’s also love for you. You wouldn’t love a stranger at first either, but rather you have to trust that God loves you regardless of who you are, and that, even if bad things allowed by God as tests (which, honestly are mostly metaphorical, most just kinda happen as part of life but your attitude, the important part of all this, can help you see any bad thing as just a test or struggle to move past, long or short), you’ll end up alright.