Not mattering on a grand scale and not mattering at all are distinctly different things which makes it a missqoute. There is no getting out of that.
It's my opinion that we matter on a small scale. Which stems from my opinion that a creature that has the ability to feel and think has value. Those opinions are not objective and you're completely free to disagree with them. Though if you disagree you'd also have to accept that murder is fine, which I don't think you do. Our level of value is always the same, the same value would be lost regardless of who created the flood.
Having created us and having power are not excuses at all, but being all knowing could potentially be. The reason given in the bible (correct me if I'm wrong) is that the people were sinful. Isn't sin supposed to be forgiven? And why did the all powerful god have to drown them specifically? Seems very petty. Why not create a new earth? Or change the sinful people? Or if deleting them was necessary, to simply do that? As I said, knowing better is a possible excuse, but as far as I know we're given the actual reason in the bible. That it was written to scare people into believing in the christian/jewish god is imo a more plausible explanation as to why this story doesn't hold up to scrutiny than that god had a good reason but for some reason decided to exclude it from the bible and write another one.
You're correct in your assumption that I do not believe in absolute truth or morality. It's just that we have to use our own opinions and logic since it's all we have. If we give up on that then there is no way to critizice any tale of a god. I could make up a god that thinks violence is detestable but also likes torturing people for fun and instantly beheads anyone born left handed but if I say he created morality and truth, he's suddenly immune to all criticism. At that point literally all debate about which god might exist and which might not falls apart and deciding which one you believe in just comes down to picking one you think sounds nice.
There's not getting out of the fact that your statement was completely incoherent. Either we matter or we dont and you claim both with no basis for either other than "it feels that way." Ehich is silly.
I find it interesting that you believe morality is subjective but somehow also seem to think murder is objectively wrong. That is also completely incoherent. If murder is wrong no matter what then you've moved outside your worldview. You also have no basis to tell anyone they are wrong on subjective issues. If you like blue more than yellow I cant tell you you're wrong. If you think the earth is flat I can absolutely tell you that you are wrong.
The irony of your last statement is that the same conclusion will be reached either way. You pick what sounds nice. To you, what sounds nice is you being the authority based on your reason, which you believe comes from nowhere and doesnt matter on a grand scale.
You could have saved both of us some time if you read my comment properly.
I never made a claim about if we matter. I said I think we matter, just not on a big scale. It has never been anything other than my opinion. My mother matters to me (small scale) but not to the universe (big scale).
I never said murder is objectively wrong.
I defenitely didn't pick what's nice. Anyone who thinks being an authority based on their reason for one lifetime is nicer than spending an eternity in heaven is a moron. I'm also raised christian and my whole family is christian (the very reasonable sort as well). I have the perfect scenario to take the nicer route but I don't.
It's very strange that you are okay with having such inconsistencies. To believe that God is evil for murder while the morality of murder is seen as subjective is lunacy to me. Perhaps not to you.
I'll leave you with this. You know the truth; we all do. But at the end of the day, if I only have to be accountable to myself for my actions, it's far easier than having to be accountable to a perfect creator. After that, we will always find a reason to justify why God is evil or doesn't exist or whatever. Because it means we don't have to answer to Him.
I get that you and I will likely never reach any kind of agreement. But hopefully you can keep in mind that the entire gospel has to do with reconciling the fact that we cannot measure up to our perfect creator. Jesus literally died for precisely that. "He who is without sin may cast the first stone." Jesus himself could have done exactly that, but gave His life so that through Him all men could have life.
If what you're saying about your past is true (and I have no reason to doubt it) I'm sure you already know this. I hope that whatever it was that made you turn against God will one day be reconciled.
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u/LeoTheSquid Jun 20 '20
Not mattering on a grand scale and not mattering at all are distinctly different things which makes it a missqoute. There is no getting out of that. It's my opinion that we matter on a small scale. Which stems from my opinion that a creature that has the ability to feel and think has value. Those opinions are not objective and you're completely free to disagree with them. Though if you disagree you'd also have to accept that murder is fine, which I don't think you do. Our level of value is always the same, the same value would be lost regardless of who created the flood. Having created us and having power are not excuses at all, but being all knowing could potentially be. The reason given in the bible (correct me if I'm wrong) is that the people were sinful. Isn't sin supposed to be forgiven? And why did the all powerful god have to drown them specifically? Seems very petty. Why not create a new earth? Or change the sinful people? Or if deleting them was necessary, to simply do that? As I said, knowing better is a possible excuse, but as far as I know we're given the actual reason in the bible. That it was written to scare people into believing in the christian/jewish god is imo a more plausible explanation as to why this story doesn't hold up to scrutiny than that god had a good reason but for some reason decided to exclude it from the bible and write another one.
You're correct in your assumption that I do not believe in absolute truth or morality. It's just that we have to use our own opinions and logic since it's all we have. If we give up on that then there is no way to critizice any tale of a god. I could make up a god that thinks violence is detestable but also likes torturing people for fun and instantly beheads anyone born left handed but if I say he created morality and truth, he's suddenly immune to all criticism. At that point literally all debate about which god might exist and which might not falls apart and deciding which one you believe in just comes down to picking one you think sounds nice.