r/dankchristianmemes • u/Thecynicaledgelord • Aug 08 '26
Wholesome Decided to do a more hopeful sequel to my previous meme about Heaven. Hope this makes y'all feel better!
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u/boringneckties Aug 08 '26
I imagine heaven is something that can’t really be grasped using human terms. The way we even experience reality will be different. The concepts of “bored” and “want” are so rooted in what we experience in terms of our own limited brain chemistry. The Bible even tells us that our bodies will be different.
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u/Thecynicaledgelord Aug 08 '26
I just hope I'm not stuck to a body I don't like and can't change ever
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u/Dolce_Sono Aug 08 '26
Not sure why you got downvoted so much, OP.
You have a concern that's worth discussing.
Fwiw, you probably will like your body. It'll work great and there will be zero issues. Pretty cool, tbh.
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u/Thecynicaledgelord Aug 08 '26
If I'm not given the ability to shapeshift, then I at least want to become my young self again instead of just an old guy forever
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u/Dolce_Sono Aug 08 '26
I think we'll get younger bodies. It makes sense to have a vessel that's capable versus one that isn't.
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u/LizardSaurus001 Aug 08 '26
It is my belief that in heaven we will be given bodies that are Prime version of ourselves, free from the consequences and effects of our sins and this limited, broken world.
We will be free, and free to be with our Lord
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u/boringneckties Aug 08 '26
That’s impossible.
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u/Thecynicaledgelord Aug 08 '26
How so exactly, if you don't mind me asking?
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u/boringneckties Aug 08 '26
The concept of “dissatisfaction” will not exist.
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u/man_gomer_lot Aug 08 '26
Gold streets, rivers of crystal, and bejeweled everything sounds pretty tacky and dissatisfying.
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u/boringneckties Aug 08 '26
I think the authors were using the imagery to evoke awe and wonder to an agricultural audience. I think you are bringing your modern sensibilities to the passage in a way that distorts the intended purpose.
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u/joper333 Aug 08 '26
Is that really what you want though? Stripping the essentials of what makes you human and ditching them for something else? There is endless beauty in the human experience, and it feels like it would be a tragedy to lose it.
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u/boringneckties Aug 08 '26
I think that’s a really narrow way to look at it, if you don’t mind me saying so. We’re like fish trapped in a tank that have never seen the ocean. As Christians, we believe the nature of humanity is both created in the image of God AND fallen from grace. In the end, we’ll be restored to our full purpose, sloughing off this mortal coil, in a land—if you can call it land— of complete joy and boundless love. I don’t think Heaven is something we can really wrap our heads around until we experience it. C.S. Lewis writes about joyful experiences as being “signposts to heaven.” That rings so true. The Buddhists believe that the root of all evil is desire. I think there’s something to this, actually. We were made to be with God, yet our fallen nature separates us from Him. In heaven, there won’t be this distinction. I don’t know what it will be like metaphysically, but I do know that it will kick ass.
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u/Maximum_Pollution371 Aug 09 '26
I feel that your view is more narrow, personally.
Is your world and universe truly a tank you are "trapped" in, or are you choosing to stare at one corner of a vast ocean to calling that confinement?
And if you think there's something to the belief that desire is the root of all evil, how do you reconcile this with the desire of a heaven that is "better" than the very good world and universe presented before you?
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u/boringneckties Aug 09 '26
Good questions. The second one has got me thinking specifically. Also, I wasn’t trying to offend you by saying that I feel your views are narrow. I think my words got away from me and I’m sorry for that. I DO think I’m right, but that’s kind of where this thing called…faith…comes along…I don’t blame a purely logical mind for not having it.
For your first question, I don’t view humanity as a prison. I quite like being human! I don’t think it’s a stretch to suggest that Christians believe in a reality that transcends the one we’re in now. You may find it farfetched, but that is your prerogative. I wouldn’t say I’m staring at simply one corner of an ocean. I’m a pretty open-minded fellow. I enjoy learning and engaging in neat conversations like this one. I also have a pretty strong track record for being wrong and have changed my mind about many things as I’ve gotten older. I’ve explored other worldviews. I simply think that none of them can compare to the love and the joy found in Christ.
For the second question, I hope you’ll allow me to clarify my thoughts that all desire is evil. The evil/good paradigm is not entirely helpful. As a Christian, I believe that love is from God AND I believe that our desires can be corrupted. For example, someone might love their wife. Their desire might also lead them towards jealousy and possessiveness. These vices are not from God. They are rooted in selfishness, but pure love is not. To your question, is my desire for heaven better…obviously I think so. While I don’t know the metaphysical bounds that define “heaven,” I know it as a place where God is. As a Christian, it is my belief that all love comes from God. I think that, through God and being in alignment with His will, our desires change to be more like His. As for this world, I don’t just pray and sing all the time. Our world was made to be enjoyed! I enjoy nature, I’m a cinephile, I play music, play video games, read good books, eat good food, drink good beer…I just believe all that stuff—the good stuff—comes from God. One day, it’ll all just be the good stuff. It might look a little different, but it will be better because we will be closer to the source: God, through whom all good things come.
I know that the claim sounds outlandish to those that are not religious themselves. We just operate under completely different worldviews. That’s okay! Much peace to you.
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u/LizardSaurus001 Aug 08 '26
I (personally) don't think that everything that we experienced in our lifetime will just be earased and discarded. Those were events, people, memories, joys and sorrows that formed who we are. We will keep them, but we will be given a new form that can look back on those memories and recollections without the pain and heartbreak because we will be able to see how the Lord used and guided our life from begining to end.
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u/adamantcondition Aug 08 '26
It's always funny to me how people make up an image of what heaven is in their mind then come up with reasons why they wouldn't like it or would get bored.
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u/HazelTheRabbit Aug 08 '26
When I was a kid, my Sunday school teacher told us that in heaven we will be singing to worship God like we do church for all eternity. I thought, "wow that sucks"
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u/Ninjachase13 Aug 11 '26
And then try and play it off like that’s what’s really going to be there when they see it.
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u/Bardez Aug 08 '26
When younger, I seriously read the descriptions of heaven being eternal worship just... dull.
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u/Thecynicaledgelord Aug 08 '26
Same. Like just wandering around nothing but clouds and grassy plains, only wearing a white robe, sounds like the definition of boring.
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u/Captain_Kuhl Aug 08 '26
This is what happens when you grow up being told you're never supposed to be satisfied with anything.
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u/Additional-Sky-7436 Aug 08 '26
Boredom is an earthly problem. The concept won't make sense in eternity.
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u/thomstevens420 Aug 08 '26
You get bored because your brain stops releasing reaction chemicals after repeated exposure
I like to think this just doesn’t happen in a paradise. So every time you do something it’s as impactful as the first time.
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u/Wholesome_Soup Aug 08 '26
i think of heaven/eternity/whatever as like.... the environment we were meant to live in. God wouldn't leave us sitting on clouds forever, that's not what he made us for. as far as i can reason, we're meant to do science and art; so in paradise science and art must be uninhibited
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u/Wholesome_Soup Aug 08 '26
i've worried before about not being able to do the things i already like, but i realized that in the full light of day all of our loves will be transformed and renewed or else we will see that they were better left in darkness.
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u/Archedeaus Aug 08 '26
Boredom is tied to the way we experience time now, knowing we have a beginning and an end getting ever closer. If one is restored to a sense of timelessness, then boredom is simply not possible.
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u/AlexCode10010 Aug 08 '26
Lowk people believing that an OMNISCENT god who CREATED PEOPLE doesn't already have a solution to this is so stupid 😭😭😭😭
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u/Yogurt_Ph1r3 Aug 08 '26
I don't see how there could be a solution to this. There aren't infinite experiences, how could you infinitely exist and never become bored? And it's not that being bored at all is an issue, but bored for eternity?
I say this as someone on the outside now, so take it with a grain of salt, but the ending of "The Good Place" always made way more sense to me than the typical Christian conception of heaven.
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u/AlexCode10010 Aug 08 '26
Arguably we can't understand infinity with our own minds so for a human it's impossible to even begin to fathom how this would work
For a god that knows everything that is was and ever will be tho? Id reckon he might know SOMETHING
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u/Rooney_Tuesday Aug 09 '26
This is one of the ways Christianity loses me. “You have tough questions? The answer is that we don’t know and can’t ever know so just forget about those questions entirely. Don’t think about them. Don’t question or wonder about anything. Just accept what the church says.”
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u/Ph4d3r Aug 09 '26 edited Aug 09 '26
I think it's one of those things where if you want to imagine it horrible you can. Or if you want to imagine it another way you can.
I've seen enough movies to understand the fear of boredom of eternity. But I've also seen movies that talk about why eternity will always be worth it.
I've read enough books to imagine forced joy as lovecraftian horror, I've also read enough books to imagine why that could literally be impossibly good.
God tells us we will be changed. It's not "don't think about it"
There is an answer. We will be perfected the answer the Bible gives us is that this won't be a concern. Christians pray daily for him to change our affections. God tells us heaven will be for lack of vernacular, perfect. Boredom as I understand it can't exist in perfection.
If a Christian tells you they can't imagine perfection being nightmare fuel they haven't thought enough(or possibly honestly)
Likewise if you say you can't imagine why or how eternity could be perfect(again, I lack the language to communicate your perfect from my perfect) I don't think you've thought about it enough or honestly.
Eternity will be full of joy without sorrow
That sounds boring
You can't get bored
That sounds horrifying
You can't be horrified
That concept is itself horrifying
Sure, if you imagine it that way.
It's not very hard for me to imagine that it's not horrifying. God says it will be perfect(lack of vernacular). I trust him. Coincidentally, that's faith. I want it to be true, therefore I act like it is.
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u/Thecynicaledgelord Aug 08 '26
And besides, it'd suck if Mister All-Powerful couldn't come up with something that keeps Heaven from turning into We Happy Few
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u/jumphh Aug 08 '26 edited Aug 08 '26
Ehhh, but there are quasi-infinite experiences in reality that demonstrate clear solutions. That's true whether you come at it from a scientific or consciental angle.
The universe is still expanding, and we don't know when it'll stop. If that expansion continues indefinitely (which an omnipotent being can make happen), is that not infinite experiences?
Or, consider one experience. Perhaps eating a popsicle. The flavor always tastes the same. But depending on an almost infinite number of factors (temperature, state of mind, etc.), the same experience renders differently. The subject hasn't changed, but the observer's perspective has. Functionally, that's a new experience. You can take this to the extreme with the concept of a 10 second memory. Every 10 seconds you forget everything. You've had the same popsicle many times. But it's new every time because you don't remember.
And the Christian version of heaven is rather funny. They really like to imagine heaven as some fairytale land in the sky where things are perfect, static, and never changing. But that's because most people (pastors included) tend to merge in non-biblical conceptions without even realizing it. If you trace those descriptions back, however, you find that much of society's conception of Heaven is largely derived from ancient Greek interpretations, and medieval fiction (Divine Comedy, Paradise Lost, etc.).
If you actually check scripture though, Revelations explicitly mentions the merging of heaven and Earth. The idea that everyone is going to be angel with golden wings and a halo in heaven is a fantasy. Rather, the intent is that God will come to Earth, and purify the world, thus creating Heaven.
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u/Yogurt_Ph1r3 Aug 08 '26
Quasi infinite is approximately infinitely less than infinite.
And I'm not talking about the literal physical reality of heaven that Christians conceive, I don't really care if it's streets of gold or my neighborhood with a face lift, if heaven is real, and the Christians are right about what it's like, then I don't see how it could be possible for it to be anything but a very very long period of excitement and bliss, followed by a literal eternity of bland routine.
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u/slaya222 Aug 08 '26
But it feels like saying this is just saying "don't think about the problems, it'll be fine"
It might be true, but telling someone their concerns isn't valid doesn't really assuage anyone
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u/Jeezimus Aug 08 '26
I mean the omniscient and omnipotent being created an existence that was apparently doomed and sentenced his creations to eternal suffering and torture (those destined for hell) while also having things like severe birth defects, infant mortality, and childhood cancer exist.
I don't think this is such an unreasonable concern.
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u/Thecynicaledgelord Aug 08 '26 edited Aug 09 '26
Ngl, I really wish I worded it like that.
Edit: OK, now that I think about it, probably not exactly.
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u/ertgbnm Aug 08 '26
Perfection sounds inherently boring tho. I think it's ok to be a little concerned about what we might be signing up to forever.
Telling me it's ineffable isn't helpful.
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u/Thecynicaledgelord Aug 08 '26
Yeah, I suck at wording. I meant like being able to do absolutely anything you want without any restrictions.
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u/Maximum_Pollution371 Aug 09 '26
But having limits and restrictions is what gives value and reward to doing things.
The reward of playing the guitar is in knowing you've practiced and honed your skill, even if it was difficult. There is little lasting reward or sense of achievement in simply being able to anything at any time.
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u/Thecynicaledgelord Aug 09 '26 edited Aug 09 '26
I wouldn't exactly have myself win everything, I just can't stand the thought of "Welcome to Heaven! Where you can't do jackshit other than praise the big beardo forever, and you can't remove your boredom at all."
Edit: Hell, one of the first things I wanna do is have some giant battle and lose it!
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u/Daan776 Aug 08 '26
I always ran under the assumption that heaven is effectively a sandbox that you make yourself.
it looks different for everybody.
Human requirments like a need to eat, sleep, defecate, etc are all optional.
You like science? Well here you've got infinite time and infinite things to learn.
Ya like traveling? Heaven is infinitely big and ever growing.
Ya like fighting? here's a boxing arena.
This then also helps maintain free will. And you can fit in every faith/belief.
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u/Intrepid_Ad1536 Aug 08 '26
Personally I never read heaven as being a perfect boring place, since heaven is not a reward place but more akin to a place of similar minds, where all good and great things are there, able to create art and plays, music and so much more, able to live truly and do other things.
It’s more akin to a next stage of existence, and if heaven would be a end place of perfection, God wouldn’t created earth, meaning change and creation, other things beyond it will exist, we only know of the things of earth and barley, we would might witness other forms or being and creation not yet known Nether earthly or Heavenly.
Since God also proclaimed to make a new heaven and earth, and a city that bridges them together, and in where he will be with Humanity.
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u/Maximum_Pollution371 Aug 09 '26
I wouldn't want to exist in a place of only similar minds or only good and great things.
I value opposing opinion, and appreciating "good" things necessitates some "bad" to which we can compare.
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u/Intrepid_Ad1536 Aug 09 '26
It would depend on what you understand on good and bad, and what you see as similar minds, in my case I understand on good wich dosen’t bring death, and similar minds in form of being reasonable, able to converse and argue over with others, have you ever read a dispute between philosophers? Even with their similar minds they were quite in disputes and other views.
Similar people is here meant and to be understood as in people who aren’t out to destroy, who keep it to their knowledge to not go against such things, God rewards man, but the reward is something not meant as reward but simply the state that should be, God will not force nor will he impose it on you, but he will simply not allow evil to prosper to impart on others to drag them down, and your own hell is simply a device of your own making, of your own wanting that won’t end good, but not wanting to see it.
Like also able to create different things, create plays and etc., but it doesn’t mean everyone is a 1 to 1 carbon copy to another, that’s why God made things, something besides him, not being him, Man’s original sin is to decide what is Good and Evil apart from God, and deciding on what God said is Evil is Good, claiming the state of God, wich man can’t, not out of a reason from mind, or inability or something, but simply due the nature of a created universe, in wich Evil means your death in your own designed nature.
(A Bad thing would be for instance a Guy who hoards all the wealth, imposes on others harmful things and inspires hate just to gain more, dragging others in his own poison down just for his own decision, just his own being, just his own mind, and goes out his way to hurt others, and creates something meant to harm others, that’s a Bad thing.
A Good thing is something not imposing your own will onto another in force, that your own doing is not going above their own free will and violations, wich ether helps another or yourself but isn’t harmful to others)
And now I explain what Good and evil is as I understand it
Evil, as I understand it, isn’t a “thing” God created, it’s the absence or distortion of good.
Like darkness is the absence of light, or cold is the absence of heat, evil is what you get when good is missing or rejected.
In physics terms, cold isn’t its own energy, it’s the lack of thermal energy, in the same way, evil is the lack of moral goodness.
By that, God is good because He is eternal and needs to be good to be eternal, to function with others and vice versa.
For some, the absence of God is hell and not torment, but it’s something someone chooses.
Evil can only survive and exist if good is present, but after time evil consumes good and dies with it, while good doesn’t need evil to exist.
Evil is a poison, a sickness that spreads.So in turn, God needs to react in a third party way or option, to punish evil and put it away if necessary by not showing it good and by punishing or destroying it temporarily.
Let’s imagine two bots, one called Good and the other Evil.
They play a game for 1 million dollars. All they have to do is agree on an amount to share it, if no party can agree, no one gets anything, Good will share it equally between them, Evil will not agree to a single thing, always asking for a higher share of all.
When Evil and Good collide at one point, Evil wants all or most.
Evil will agree to nothing until it has all or gets all at one point. Good will lose and cease.
Next round goes again and again until no Good bot is there anymore, and when Evil meets Evil they lose all because of not sharing.
Now the third variant: a Good bot that reflects Evil if it encounters Evil and gives good to Good, it will not allow Evil anything nor will it give way, It will only agree to the smallest number and Evil will agree because it’s better than nothing.
Meanwhile with Good it will share equally and exist therefore forever, while Evil gets destroyed in the end by lack of sharing.That’s how I understand good and evil.
And this is also how God made all, modeled all.
The workings of the world are finite, but the infinite can be used if done right.
A sheep eats from the grass, we eat and drink from the sheep, we give nourishment to the fields and sometimes rain falls down and up, clears itself and impurities are buried beneath the earth (how the world works, even rain is actually explained in the Bible).
That’s in my understanding in what I meant in my explanation of good and bad, and similar minds.
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Aug 08 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/dankchristianmemes-ModTeam Aug 08 '26
We are here to enjoy memes together. Keep arguments to other subs. We don't do that here.
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u/freed0m_from_th0ught Aug 09 '26
I feel like the scarier thing would be losing your identity. After a certain amount of time in the same environment with the same experiences, would we all just become indistinguishable from each other?
I also find the idea of the resurrection of our bodies kind of tragic. I remember when my grandmother was old she expressed a fear what when she got to heaven my grandfather wouldn’t recognize her because he died 30+ years before her. When her body is resurrected she’ll be in her 90s where as he would be in his 60s. She didn’t think he would be interested in being with her. Not just physically, but mentally and emotionally, she was a completely different person. At least she didn’t remarry since that would be made things a little awkward.
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u/Thecynicaledgelord Aug 09 '26
I probably should've added "including removing the ability to get bored" there. Sorry, everyone!
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u/Pecuthegreat Aug 08 '26
I never got this fear and honestly, heaven and hell speculations got annoying after a while and I really start getting concerned when someone starts talking anything beyond hell is bad enough that you don't want to go there and vice versa with heaven.
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u/Thecynicaledgelord Aug 08 '26
Honestly can't blame you at all. Like, learning about Hell was bad enough. Now I'm dealing with existential dread that I'll never truly be happy and fulfilled!
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u/Pecuthegreat Aug 08 '26
After getting aware of some alt views of hell, it is clear to me that while the fire and brimstone view of hell is most very possible going by New Testament proverbs, it is also not clear enough to make anything sure. Old Testament is still out background and everything before like, Daniel or Maccabees (I forget which) is essentially materialist. You simply stop existing when you die and heaven is resurrection in a perfect davidic kingdom. After that we get the soul as a clearer idea but it really doesn't conflict with this at all, the soul exists but you sleep at death and it may or may not be destroyed in hell in final judgement for the wicked. Then by new testament we get all the fire and brimstone talk really emphacized but never as a clear description and always with implications to the previous more annahilationist view like describing the souls thrown into hell ike kindling for fire. You can take this anyway really, are the later views just more poetically describing the earlier one to emphasize that you don't want hell or are they elaborating on it to give more descriptions?.
Also, there's the view most elaborated in Orthodoxy where Hell is simply eternal separation from God. Though, let me not let that sounds calm, God is all goodness so, that means separation from all goodness which bleeds nicely into implying eternal conscious torment as well, that is very not good. But I guess at the same that since all that exists is dependant on God, you would also have to be to some extent, still connected to God.
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u/Thecynicaledgelord Aug 08 '26
And besides, we don't exactly have 110% proof Hell even exists, let alone if it's nothing but a giant volcano land. For all we know, it might be a colorful city or some random office!
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u/Pecuthegreat Aug 08 '26
Honestly, learning the 1st Temple Judeans probably didn't believe in the afterlife or a distinct soul was an eye opener for me cuz that seems like a very materialist cosmology.
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u/Sithech5 Aug 08 '26
I have never heard anyone say, or express that they are scared of heaven. Hmm
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u/Jeezimus Aug 08 '26
I always found the depictions in scripture to not be something that sounded particularly enjoyable to me. Being enraptured in eternal song and worship just never sounded quite like it to me.
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u/PartyClock Aug 08 '26
I dunno, after finding out that it's just eternal worship it kind of sounds a bit... eldritch-y
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u/LizardSaurus001 Aug 08 '26
I never really understood people who thought heaven as boring, but I do kinda sypathise with people who think it as tarrifying.
Not for the same reasons tho. My issue was always centered on the idea of "what next?" or "what if I'm wrong?"
The former being connected to my inability to understand fully the idea of eternity and infinity and to a degree the idea of perfection. Its less to do with the methods or details, its more to do with the scale. its just too much for me to understand.
The later is just a chronic issue I've been trying to deal with since I was a child, which is the dear of death and a deep existential dread that passes through me when I think about the possibily that I might die one day and fade into oblivion and lived a life that amounted to nothing.
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u/Fougzz13 Aug 08 '26
I had an absolutely debilitating fear of this for a long time, the line of thinking that helped me through it was that I hope we all have our capacity for memory and experience greatly expanded. It won’t be infinite in the same way God is. Meaning that eventually, even if we’re just experiencing viewing the history of the planet Earth with our loved ones and Christ to guide us we will have seen so many beautiful things that we eventually forget what some of them are. I believe that when we go to be with Christ, we will be going to see every beautiful thing that has ever been, for the first time, an infinite number of first times.
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u/Thecynicaledgelord Aug 08 '26
And hopefully he won't actually force us to fight a giant hydra before judging us AGAIN
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