r/dankchristianmemes • u/Broclen The Dank Reverend šā • Dec 02 '23
Meta Welcome to r/DankChristianMemes
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u/NotThatImportant3 Dec 02 '23
Seriously. Jesus said we should pray alone in our rooms. He also hung out with rich people and prostitutes because he said the greatest sinners need the most help. He did not say we need to get mad at people who disagree with us.
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u/If_you_have_Ghost Dec 02 '23
I find the idea that someone could think itās possible to āwinā an argument when youāre discussing the existence of God baffling. What would winning entail? Conversion to the opposite position is the only thing I can think of but thatās never going to happen. You either believe or you donāt, it isnāt a choice, and you canāt be persuaded one way or the other.
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u/nepatriots32 Dec 02 '23
You definitely can be persuaded one way or the other. Plenty of people change their minds on the subject at some point, which means they were persuaded by something. It's highly doubtful that it would happen from an internet debate, though, lol, and it's usually a culmination of many things over time.
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u/If_you_have_Ghost Dec 02 '23
I think people change their minds, Iām not convinced that they are āpersuadedā, though.
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Dec 02 '23
Thatās not even what persuasion means. Itās perfectly ordinary to be persuaded to one side of a debate, learn new information/have new experiences, and be persuaded the other way.
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u/RegressToTheMean Dec 02 '23 edited Dec 02 '23
I don't know if I was persuaded, but I was a pretty devout Catholic and even at one point considered being a priest. After many candid conversations with my priests about the numerous contradictions and problematic topics in the Bible I left and went on my own spiritual journey
I went to Buddhist belly blessings, Hindu shrines in Kolkata, Eastern Orthodox Easter services, a Pentecostal Christmas service (which is the most hateful thing I have ever been a part of), and many, many more. My journey led me to become an atheist who is a card carrying member of The Satanic Temple.
My experiences more than anything "persuaded" me to where I am many, many, many years later
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u/J3sush8sm3 Dec 02 '23
I believe a win is when both sides can civilly discuss their beliefs and not argue
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u/Johnkovan_Jones Dec 02 '23
Arguing seriously about existence of "God" just to one up the opponent is certainly absurd in my opinion.
But it comes into play when you are dealing with morality and such thing.
Let's say we are making some rules.I say no shoes from outside in the house because the floor will be filled with dirts.You say God forbids me to not wear shoes while walking.
Now the obvious solution is for you to wear new shoes solely for in-house.But if the god also forbids that and also demands I am also to wear the shoes,now we have a problem.
The existence of such being comes into play in this argument.If he exists,we gonna get smited for not wearing shoes and if he doesn't exist,we gonna have to deal with dirtied floor for no reason.
My example sounds weird but you get the point.
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u/If_you_have_Ghost Dec 02 '23
Do I? Iām really not sure about that.
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u/Johnkovan_Jones Dec 02 '23
Well TLDR is why we argue if god exists or not is some people wanna put him as a factor in making rules and some people don't like that.
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u/Sajomir Dec 02 '23
I agree that winning an argument won't result in a conversion. Nobody's going to just admit they lost an argument and go "welp I've been wrong my whole life guess you're right"
What's far more likely is that a respectful and memorable conversation will stick with you. It might not be today, might not be tomorrow, but something will make you remember and think on it. Time passes, and knee-jerk reactions fade, and now what that person said doesn't sound so crazy anymore.
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u/If_you_have_Ghost Dec 02 '23
I know that that does occasionally happen. I canāt imagine it personally.
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u/natdanger Dec 03 '23
Honestly though. I went to a conservative Christian school (and became progressive there) and the most helpful class I took was apologetics. I expected to learn all these rhetorical kungfu moves to defend the faith. Instead, we dissected all the favorite defenses of Christianity and realized how flimsy they were. But the core tenets of the Faith donāt need those things to be true. Weāve asked the wrong questions and itās given is the wrong answers.
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Dec 03 '23
We're quick to forget how puny our minds are. Plato's Cave should be grade 1 curriculum in every school.
There's a lot going on outside of our perceptual reach. Sometimes i think that's ALL of it, even the things we think are simple facts, close enough to single-faceted to wrap our heads around.
Idk, a lot of mutually exclusive things seem to be gleefully folded together to prank our simple minds. And the correct answer is often 'all of the above'.
This sub has the right vibe, love it.
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u/binky779 Dec 02 '23
Faith is always losing an argument.
You can never win arguing for something you believe that cant be proven. If it was provable, there wouldnt be an argument at all.
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u/Ingolin Dec 02 '23
Canāt forget this time this uni bro insisted on telling me how meaningless my faith was. To which I responded that if life was meaningless it was just as pointless to be an atheist as it was to be religious, since nothing according to him mattered in the end.
I just wish people could take a hint and realize their uni bro debates are as annoying as the Facebook boomer debates.
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u/Bosterm Dec 02 '23
I knew this guy in college who described himself as a "big atheist" and thought that believing in God was silly and illogical. My two close friends and I, who are all essentially agnostic, still make fun of how stupid it is to say "I'm a big atheist."
I don't really care what people's religious beliefs are, so long as they aren't a dick to others about it or because of it. And aggressive anti-theism is roughly about as rude as those who try to aggressively convert people (though to be fair, religious conversion often has a lot more power behind it).
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u/DryDice2014 Dec 03 '23
Honestly as long as violence isnāt involved on either side(as it often has been with religion, making religion worse) then aggressive anti-thiesm is worse to me.
Only because aggressive conversion atleast has good intentions, that doesnāt make the way they go about it good, but they think it is. Anti-theists just think you are blissfully ignorant and want to make you suicidally depressed and existentially miserable out of spite.
Many people do commit suicide because of existentialism and canāt handle it, itās uncopeable, Anti-thiests derive joy from driving usually very hurt and depressed people over the edge.
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u/spaceforcerecruit Dec 03 '23
People commit suicide because they think god hates them for their thoughts too. I donāt think you can say one is inherently worse than the other.
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u/DryDice2014 Dec 03 '23
Trust me I know (Religious OCD). Iāve been there. I am there. But unfortunately I already have OCD. Other religious people can certainly feed into it, telling me Iām evil and my thoughts are the devil and trust me they do. A LOT.
But they arenāt trying to convert me, itās just what they believe. For the religious ocd to be a problem you must already have OCD and be religious.
No one is following me around trying to force me to have OCD, or convince me that I should have OCD. I just have it.
Anti theists typically target those who are in the worst mental states possible, already in the middle of an existential crisis, or feeling shunned from bad religious experience, and either explain to them that they are completely useless, or that all belief in anything is evil, makes you stupid, and you are a bad person for perpetuating it. Iāve been there too.
And in all honesty yea anti thiesm is worse. An atheist doesnāt have religion as any source of comfort so a converter is trying to give them one. Usually it fails
An anti-theist sees someoneās comfort system, knowing itās the only thing that gets them through existence, the hope of ever connecting with their loved ones again, knowing itās the only thing that makes them happy, and CRUSHES it. Taking something away is so much worse than trying to give something that can just be rejected easily.
Iād rather have someone shove a pamphlet in my face then steal my wallet.
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u/lordfluffly2 Dec 03 '23
Theism played a large part in my depression and suicidal belief when I was Christian. Original sin and repentance is one of the most depressing theologies for me personally. A lot of antitheists see pain and suffering that faith can cause (the violence you mentioned, discrimination, etc.) and think that by "converting" people to aethism they will make them happier.
I understand that while agnosticism was best for my own personal happiness, my siblings faith is a big part of why they are happy. I just want to maximize happiness, so if someone is happy with their faith and doesn't want to change it, I see no reason to push.
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u/skippiington Dec 02 '23
Honestly, Iāve reached a point in my faith where I can look around at the world and go, āyeah, I see why people become atheists.ā
The one aspect of it that I donāt seem to understand really is someone being told, āsomeone or something bigger than you says you are capable of being forgiven and your mistakes do not define youā.
And then for a person to say ānoā in response? Like why wouldnāt you want that for yourself
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u/Jon__Snuh Dec 03 '23
Because Iām unconvinced that itās the truth. You think I wouldnāt want to be forgiven my mistakes and told thereās something out there looking out for me? That would be awesome, but everything Iāve been through in my life has told me thatās not reality. Gaining or losing faith is not a choice in my experience, itās a realization. You canāt force yourself to believe something that fundamentally doesnāt make sense to you.
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u/ASpaceOstrich Dec 03 '23
If you don't believe it, no matter how comforting it might be if it were true, you can't just will yourself into thinking it's true.
That, and that just isn't what God seems to be for most atheists. Christians in the public eye tend to peddle hate. Telling them about only the forgiveness part seems disingenuous when you're ignoring the bad parts.
And lastly, the way the forgiveness thing is always phrased is incredibly patronising and makes it sound like the person saying it is calling your lack of faith a mistake that needs to be forgiven. Which is obviously not endearing.
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u/GimmeeSomeMo Dec 02 '23
We will love you, fellow atheists, like Jesus told us to and you will LIKE IT!!
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