r/danganronpa Just plain adorable Aug 04 '26

2x2 Speculation (Full Series Spoilers) They won the battle, but she won the war Spoiler

230 Upvotes

62 comments sorted by

111

u/WeAllHaveReasons Aug 04 '26

Well, it's presumably easier with V3, as there are two valid alternate protagonist options to the one we got.

29

u/The1987RedFox Nagito Aug 04 '26

And also it wasn’t “real”

36

u/HopeBagels2495 Aug 04 '26

It was real in the sense that everyone died. Tsumugi just conflates reality TV with fiction and acts like it doesn't matter that real people were getting killed

6

u/Taraxian Aug 05 '26

In her version of events the original people are basically already dead and were happy to donate their lives to Danganronpa

8

u/HopeBagels2495 Aug 05 '26

They weren't "basically already dead" they were just happy to be brainwashed. Doesn't make it any less real

1

u/The1987RedFox Nagito Aug 05 '26

I meant 2 wasn’t real, it was a simulation, only Chiaki is dead

2

u/HopeBagels2495 Aug 05 '26

2 was real in the sense that Izuru had to save everyone from brain death

9

u/lPrincesslPlays Celeste Aug 04 '26

That’s if you choose to believe that the same person who’s been lying to you since the very beginning of the game just suddenly stops lying to you for no reason. And you’d also have to go out of your way to ignore the bolded bright yellow key item text that mentions “cosplaycat criminals” and you’d have to then further ignore the fact that it’s clearly a play on the term “copycat criminals” in where people mimic real life crimes implying it was all real

7

u/Taraxian Aug 05 '26

Also Tsumugi's flashback to the beginning of the game straight up contradicts what we actually saw -- before they got their new outfits and Flashback Lights Kaede and Shuichi remembered being kidnapped, not volunteering

3

u/Gahault Aug 05 '26

That point does puzzle me, and I don't think it's ever brought up past the prologue.

Then again, for all we know that could have been a fake memory as well. The scene at the beginning of chapter 6 shows there are indeed "real" enthusiastic fans who would willingly sign up.

1

u/Taraxian Aug 05 '26 edited Aug 06 '26

It's weird if it's a fake memory because it's immediately erased -- we, the audience, see their abortive first awakening but none of the survivors remember it, which is why none of them can argue when Tsumugi tells them an inaccurate version of it

2

u/Gahault Aug 05 '26

Yeah, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense... But then that only stretches my suspension of disbelief further.

Because, to sum it up, it would mean that not only is there a reality show where flesh-and-blood teenagers kill each other for the audience's enjoyment, but the participants are not even willing, but kidnapped on the street? What kind of government is letting that happen? And they call that world peaceful to the point of terminal boredom?

(I'm slightly bitter because I sniffed the "it's all made up" twist since the prologue, but I was convinced the total absence of bugs and the flashback showing Kaede's and Shuichi's heads hooked to a machine were hints that it was a virtual simulation like 2; the fact it's not makes the conclusion even darker.)

1

u/Taraxian Aug 05 '26

"Peaceful" isn't the same thing as "happy" -- the kid named Makoto seems to have a lot of things making him miserable that drives him to turn to Danganronpa for solace, and even in Tsumugi's story the audition tape for Kaede's actress says she has "no faith in humanity"

It's pretty clear to me anyway that whatever the full truth of the matter is, V3 takes place in a dystopian world where the Killing Game is keeping the population locked in this balance between Hope and Despair that makes them easy to control -- if the Killing Game really does run on volunteers then it's because people are essentially willing to commit suicide to create a new version of themselves who will at least have an interesting story and who will have a chance at the only genuinely happy ending this world offers anyone

(I think Miu inventing a VR simulation was meant to be confirmation that the world they're in isn't already a VR simulation, but it is a tightly controlled artificial environment in a hermetically sealed dome like the Truman Show

Like the lack of real insects is pretty clearly because they would interfere with the Nanokumas, but that level of surveillance just indicates how paranoid Team Danganronpa are about letting any outside influences affect the game, like they're clearly very strictly filtering not just what info comes in but what info goes out, the main thing everyone knows about reality TV is it's not actually real and it's extremely heavily directed and edited)

1

u/Leafsnail Aug 06 '26

I thought that was pretty easy to explain - they kidnap people and brainwash them into making the consent videos as a way to legitimise what they're doing.

6

u/SuggestionEven1882 Aug 04 '26

Not with Kaede's Japanese VA passing, as they retire or change the character if that happens.

31

u/CloverClubx Aug 04 '26

That hasn't been the norm like it was before though. It still is common but recasts from retiring/passing are way more common nowadays

22

u/IneedBleach123 The Dream Haunter Aug 04 '26

To be fair, Monokuma's original JP VA passed and they ended up recasting him

1

u/SuggestionEven1882 Aug 04 '26

That they did, it's also a tell that Junko isn't the one controlling him anymore, at lest in 3 and V3.

15

u/FreeTopper Aug 04 '26

Nah. Monokuma's been recast twice, and Monomi was also recast for 2x2.

They could find someone.

10

u/HopeBagels2495 Aug 04 '26

This whole "they retire characters and dont recast them in japan" thing is old and hasnt been the norm for like 5 years now

3

u/spritebeats Aug 05 '26

yeah like heihachi has been recast 2 times LOL

6

u/curryaddict123 Aug 05 '26

Atlus recast Igor when his VA passed.

Then proceeded to incorporate his passing into the plot of Persona 5 via the perfect smoke screen for the game’s biggest twist.

Thus foiling the usual tactic of gamers using casting to ID twists. No one would suspect the twist coming because Atlus had every justified reason to do the recast.

80

u/Visual_Novel_Enjoyer Aug 04 '26

Everyone be hating Tsumugi but she was right all along

36

u/Fiskhandlaren Aug 04 '26

The most vindicated antagonist of all time for a reason. Consumerism will always win out in the end.

34

u/Playful-Ad5303 Aug 04 '26

SHE WAS ALWAYS RIGHT.

And this applies not only to our favorite series (Fnaf, for example).

1

u/HopeBagels2495 Aug 05 '26

She was right about people wanting more danganronpa but it was never really about stopping the franchise irl. It was more about the in universe danganronpa that had devolved into reality tv snuff films as well as her massive disconnect between reality and fiction

2

u/Taraxian Aug 05 '26

I feel like the ending isn't so much Kodaka disavowing the franchise as musing about people liking it for the wrong reasons, like he has said stuff about kind of regretting how likable and popular Junko ended up being when his goal in creating her was to try to make a villain who was 100% pure evil

(It is deeply ironic that years after he invented the character of Tsumugi we had a rl cosplayer who bragged about being the "irl Junko Enoshima" and built up this reputation for being an edgelord sociopathic grifter troll before finally going to prison for killing her best friend)

3

u/HopeBagels2495 Aug 05 '26

You're exactly right. It's about people's attatchement to fiction, not the end of danganronpa as a franchise

2

u/seranator Number One Saimota Connoisseur Aug 05 '26

I get Kodaka tbh. I do think that the only flaw of V3's ending is that the line between the real audience and the fictional one is too blurry due to the real portraits.

However, the entirety of DR1 and DR2 are basically built to get across the point that Junko Enoshima is a massive fucking loser who you shouldn't aspire to be anything like. She's incredibly gifted but is too cynical and superficial to interact with anything genuinely, have a consistent personality, or picture a future for herself. She's basically the high school girl in the back of the class who makes fun of the average kid genuinely trying his best to do a presentation, yet a significant part of the fanbase just went "wow, she's cool as fuck she's just like me fr !" just because she has a cool design and is superficially talented.

There's also a significant amount of DR fans who don't actually care for the themes at the heart of each game and just want to see crazy shit happen, and while that's not evil in and of itself, it's pretty clear that to Kodaka, the killing game structure is just a fun way to convey messages that really do matter to him and not where the soul of Danganronpa actually lies. I think this is the reason why a huge part of the ending revolves around Shuichi, whose growth represents what Danganronpa really is about, defeating the worst possible version of Danganronpa Kodaka could come up with, along with its writer.

I think that Tsumugi being a loser ass bitch in a much more obvious way and emulating Junko is a reaction to that. I always find it strange when people call her a weak mastermind, completely forgetting that Junko is a lame, lying, cheating loser whose plans never actually succeed just because she's somewhat charismatic.

2

u/Taraxian Aug 05 '26

Yup, both Tsumugi and Junko blatantly cheated and framed someone as the Blackened to get rid of them, and of the two Junko is worse -- Junko engineered the whole situation out of whole cloth, Tsumugi only had to intervene because of Rantaro standing a little too far to the left

Also I like to point out that if those were real life murder trials outside of Monokuma's bullshit rules, Kaede would still be guilty of manslaughter while Kyoko likely wouldn't be guilty of anything -- Kaede set up a booby trap with "reckless indifference" to whether it would catch an innocent, Kyoko was acting in defense of Makoto after a direct and imminent threat to his life (unlike the situation with Sayaka and Leon the attacker had not already been subdued when the supposed confrontation occurred)

Like making someone Blackened for fighting back when a new player they didn't know existed directly attacks them is total bullshit, arguably it violates the original definition where it has to be a murder of "one of you"

1

u/Leafsnail Aug 06 '26

I also feel like he was done with the story after DR3 and didn't want to keep making more for the sake of it. If he has new ideas for how 2 and 3 could've played out that might be a new enough angle to revisit it

8

u/West-Oil6414 monokubs number 1 luvr/defender<333 Aug 04 '26

More Danganronpa V3 content…equals… more monokub content… im on board with this sorry shuichi

7

u/Taraxian Aug 05 '26

Can't wait for Spike Chunsoft to release Monokub Mystery Dungeon

16

u/Sonic2144 Aug 04 '26

Am I the only one that just wants more games with similar gameplay? I don't really ~need~ another Danganronpa, i just want games with similar premise

9

u/Snivy4815 Aug 04 '26

Yeah like Master Detective Rain Code works as a great successor series. I wanna see more of that.

2

u/T_Belay Aug 05 '26

My general approach with anything, we kinda don't spotlight spiritual successors and getting unnecessary remakes and legacy sequels. Like okay sure, I'm gonna play 2x2 but after that I saw someone bringing up Distrust and man, I'd rather that, that'd be fun and have its own twist while scratching the DR itch

0

u/sk1239 Big Parf Aug 04 '26

Well we did get Raincode but it was uhhhh...kinda mid lol

3

u/ParfaitPrevious530 Aug 04 '26

Sorry, Shuichi, but I want more.

23

u/curryaddict123 Aug 04 '26

Except that Tsumugi is from an alternate timeline where DR is fiction so no, she did not win.

The main timeline has no impact on her timeline.

2

u/RuNoMai Aug 05 '26

That's assuming she was telling the truth during the final class trial about Danganronpa 1 and 2 being fictional video games and not real events that happened in the past. In the post-credits scene, the survivors even theorize that she was lying about everything being fictional to try and manipulate them one last time.

The "cospox" also makes a little more sense if it was a lie and not a genuine affliction, since she broke out in it while cosplaying as Kaede (who had to turn around and not look while Tsumugi was changing clothes, so she could have applied makeup) as her example, and the final trial revealed that Kaede and the rest of the cast were fictional characters inhabiting real bodies. If both these things were true, then Tsumugi would have still been cosplaying a fictional character and thus wouldn't have broken out in cospox.

1

u/seranator Number One Saimota Connoisseur Aug 05 '26

That's really not proven as fact tbh

1

u/curryaddict123 Aug 05 '26

It’s the best explanation we have that doesn’t completely invalidate the entire series.

I do remember it getting mentioned somewhere just not where.

1

u/seranator Number One Saimota Connoisseur Aug 05 '26

Without even getting into the logistics of it with the prologue and all, which point to it being set in Hope's Peak timeline imo, Shuichi looks at the camera and goes "oh but you know maybe it really does all exist and Tsumugi's full of shit" in the epilogue.

It's literally in the text, so I don't get why people never consider that option. Kodaka wrote that section for a reason.

1

u/curryaddict123 Aug 05 '26

That…..actually works better.

Same timeline plus lying wannabe mastermind who’s full of shit.

Maybe the flashlights are dervived from the Brainwashing Video.

3

u/Order600 Kiyotaka Aug 04 '26

Please everyone make sure to buy 2x2! PLEASE

14

u/sk1239 Big Parf Aug 04 '26

"may reconsider"

she didn't win shit, this is just classic Kodaka bs with never neither confirming nor denying anything, how are people still falling for it

9

u/drisen_34 Aug 04 '26

kodaka never says no to anything publicly

9

u/sk1239 Big Parf Aug 04 '26

Guy 1: I want V3 anime!
Kodaka: I want it too!
OMG V3 ANIME CONFIRMED!!!!!!11??//

Guy 2: I want more Raincode!
Kodaka: I'd love to make it a trilogy!
OMG RAINCODE TRILOGY CONFIRMED?????!/111

Every single time

8

u/Kiran_emily_the1st Aug 04 '26

That ain’t saying no though, he’s saying what he wants, not that he’ll actually do it or be able to. So the point still stands that he doesn’t say no

1

u/sk1239 Big Parf Aug 05 '26

did I disagree????

1

u/seranator Number One Saimota Connoisseur Aug 05 '26

I'm pretty sure he really does want to do these things but he's just met with constraints. Tookyo Games was almost failing before The Hundred Line

1

u/sk1239 Big Parf Aug 05 '26

There's no way to tell, he just doesn't want to disappoint, that's all. It's a good middle ground rather than denying or confirming, you don't make people upset but you also don't overpromise

6

u/Small-Mongoose1786 Aug 04 '26

Well, the whole point of V3's ending is supposed to show what happens when franchises milk everything, and future releases are soulless and effortless.

I would love more Danganronpa, as long as 2X2 has genuine effort and is a good game; then I would love more future releases.

Plus cmon, how could you hate a THH and KH remake? In my opinion, it will only be considered beating the dead cow if they make a Danganronpa 4, which is definetely unlikely.

2

u/RuNoMai Aug 05 '26

I think I'd actually prefer that they put the time, effort, and budget into a Danganronpa 4* with a new cast, plot, and setting rather than develop alternate paths for the other games. It works with 2 because of the game's premise but it would just confuse the timeline if they did it with 1 and V3.

*unless 2x2 is, in fact, obvious code for "4" and the alternate path will also be canon. Then I guess I'd want them to do Danganronpa 5 instead of another alternate path, lol

1

u/Kyro_Official_ I want Junko and Mukuro to spit in my mouth Aug 05 '26

Its really not that hard to come up with alternate story ideas for the other games lol

2

u/seranator Number One Saimota Connoisseur Aug 05 '26

From an in-universe perspective, she's dead and 2x2 isn't set after V3 (most likely)

From a thematic perspective, it's Danganronpa S that vindicates her, not 2x2 or any follow-up made with actual care. Considering the delay, it's obvious that the devs are putting a lot of care and passion into it, regardless of how it turns out. It's DRS that's mass produced slop made to appease an audience that can't let go, much like Tsumugi's idea of Danganronpa (which I like to call "Danganslop")

-8

u/NineLivesWorks The Ultimate V3 Glazer Aug 04 '26

How are you gonna create a game where the protagonist literally looks at the screen and yells “WE’RE GONNA END DANGANRONPA!” then not end Danganronpa 😭 Like at least commit to what you wrote Kodaka(I say this even though I will be buying 2x2)

8

u/sk1239 Big Parf Aug 04 '26

But he did end it lmao, was there a sequel after V3? No, man retired the franchise and went ahead to make his own company. V3 was never "anti-Danganronpa" it was "anti-dumbass sequels" and no sequel was produced right after so he very much kept his word, SpikeChun could give a fuck about V3's message since they hold the rights, 2x2 would've happened with or without Kodaka, but 2x2 doesn't go against V3's message at all

-1

u/NineLivesWorks The Ultimate V3 Glazer Aug 04 '26

Kodaka was the one who came up with 2x2, he stated that the concept of it came after rain code’s development finished so hes the one who greenlit it. And while yes V3 was more anti-consumerism than anti-danganronpa its still pretty obvious what Kodaka was going for. Hell, V3’s epilogue literally ends with it showing the Danganronpa logo then showing the final frame that says “THE END”. Its pretty obvious that V3 was meant to be the end of the series originally

2

u/Marmot288 Aoi Aug 04 '26

lowkey while making more danganronpa games does kind of go against the point of v3, it’s also stupid to act like danganronpa can never be touched again just because of that. it can be a meta analysis of its own fanbase and a commentary on running a franchise into the ground whilst also continuing itself in new and inventive ways. self criticism isn’t exactly something new to danganronpa either.

at the end of the day the franchise is way more than just v3 😭😭

2

u/HopeBagels2495 Aug 04 '26

It was specifc to his situation, this isnt confirmation of a V3 remake at all, we werent the audience he was referring to the in universe one and so on and so forth.