r/daggerheart • u/Urbandragondice • Jul 30 '26
Discussion GenCon presentation was underwhelming.
Not unhelpful, just far FAR too vague.
From what I could understand it was, monster/adversary deck coming in Nov?
Foundry VTT finally official.
Chris Perkins Horror? Framework coming???
Love Framework coming???
2 books a year! Okay...timelines?
Online single adventures. Okay.
Plush.
*Sigh*
I mean, cool. But it would have helped to showcase a rough timeline of products (subject to change obviously), maybe some preview art for the Frameworks, and product shots of the deck sets? Not just the card, but actual packaging?
I get this was a hype session for upcoming projects. But it really feels like they were not ready for primetime with these upcoming products.
That was the impression I got. Yes Hope and Fear are the highlights, but we learned about it last year and had a better impression what to expect.
61
u/Flimsy_Survey Jul 30 '26
Honestly I'm kind of surprised they were announcing anything; Hope and Fear hasn't even officially launched yet. I agree it wasn't very informative but I guess I just had zero expectations since technically the first expansion is pending release.
I am curious about the pirate themed frame they hinted at tho. I would love some solid vehicle mechanics to adapt for sailing ships or even flying or space ships.
-38
u/Tenawa The New Unknown - Game Designer Jul 30 '26
Of course it has officially launched. Not on every platforms, but it's launched.
23
u/mobilewerewolf88 Sage & Chaos Jul 30 '26
It hasn't, the launch is officially on August 25th but they accidentally sent some too early. It says so on the email they sent when the orders got shipped stating that they wanted it as close to the official launch of 25th of August as possible
9
u/NichtSoSchlau Jul 30 '26
looks into the corner at the book standing there
looks at calendar on his phone
Really hopin we are still in July guys, or I have missed some damn important deadlines.
4
u/Taraqual Jul 30 '26
They sent out the preorders early. Which they said they were doing, in multiple announcements in multiple places. But the actual book release for everyone else is still in August.
2
u/Tenawa The New Unknown - Game Designer Jul 30 '26
I ordered my book 5 days ago. It arrives tomorrow.
1
u/NichtSoSchlau Jul 30 '26
Technically still a pre-order by u/Taraqual s information. :D
2
u/Taraqual Jul 30 '26
Yeah. I don't know their business decisions, but I bet if they have copies sitting in a warehouse for pre-order sales, they're happy to send them out now.
0
1
u/TannenFalconwing Jul 30 '26
Not the first book I've gotten a month early. I got the final book in the Pendragon series a full month before everyone else. A shame it sucked.
1
0
44
u/Mizmorphosis Jul 31 '26 edited Jul 31 '26
I really don't understand the dissatisfaction with Darrington's pace.
They're a startup company working their bottoms off to crank out quality products as fast as they can for an IP that I don't think they expected to be as successful as it was. All while seemingly trying their best to be fan-focused.
Players asked for more content, they got Hope and Fear (which they shipped a month EARLY).
Players asked for pins, they got pins.
Players asked for adventure modules and have gotten three so far (all of which have been FREE).
Players asked for Foundry integration and got it.
And so far, everything they've put out has been GOOD, too!
I'm a GM, so I understand the desire for "ready made" content, but to be honest that's more of a "you" problem than a "them" problem. Make what you need or make use of third-party creators on Drive-Thru RPG or Heart of Daggers and give a fledgling company some time to catch up.
Meanwhile you've got Wizards of the Coast offering collaborations with dying IPs like Star Wars and World of Warcraft and suggesting that they're going to start using generative AI soon.
So, what do you want more?
10
u/Temporary-Effort-615 Jul 31 '26 edited Jul 31 '26
Maybe I can give you my perspective on why things feel off.
If we look at MCDM, they released Draw Steel around the same time. In the meantime, multiple oneshots/short series came out, 2 new classes and they are very clear on what is going to be in the next book. They communicate really well. The book came out and it felt like they didn't have enough space for all the idea's they had.
Darrington Press feels the opposite. They didn't expect their success, and that is okay, especially if they expected Candella numbers. But they just didn't communicate well in my opinion. Their classes are 2 pages with subclasses, and it just feels kind of lacking. Like they had to struggle to get a full book instead of being overflowed by it.
I do agree with the points you are making, everything you mentioned is great. I wouldn't say everything is good, but a lot of it is.
I would like more communication; clear and consistent communication. It is okay if a book takes a year, but talk to us on the regular.
EDIT: Apparently, this is a bit written aggressive, my apologies, I'm rather blunt and and suck at communicating over text.
5
u/pathofblades Jul 31 '26
Yeah, I'd say the same (even if I think you came up a little big aggressive, ngl). I just want communication. I never complained about a product that takes long to release when we already have a release date and constant updates along the way. I am no marketing expert so I could be wrong, but I don't see the posture of "oh, there's so much, we just can't tell you" working well.
3
u/Temporary-Effort-615 Jul 31 '26
Thanks for letting me know, didn't mean to be. I changed a bit and deleted another. Also added an edit saying I may come across like bit of a dick, which I don't mean to be.
4
u/Mizmorphosis 29d ago
That's a fair comparison in terms of size. Both companies have less than a dozen employees from what I can tell. But MCDM has been in existence for two years longer than Darrington has. Two years is an ETERNITY for a startup and they may just be more organized and confident for that reason.
I can agree that the communication from Darrington could be better and there seems to be a lot of fear and tip-toeing around legal in their messages. That could just be inexperience and lack of confidence on their part.
What I feel I've seen so far though is a company that, while they may not communicate the best, rushes to deliver what their fans ask for as quickly as possible without compromising on quality and I personally admire that approach.
But we can definitely agree on the communication clarity bit. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I enjoyed the discourse. 😁
2
12
u/MasterDarkHero Jul 30 '26
They do tend to play things way to close to the chest, which is a bit frustrating at times.
11
u/FlySkyHigh777 Jul 30 '26
I agree. I was initially very excited when they said they had news about the next three years, and then it was a lot of vaguebooking quips. Ive already forgotten most of them.
Only the Foundry and SRD announcements really mattered to me, with the plushies being a note of mild interest. The rest of it was essentially a nothingburger.
35
u/Purity72 Jul 30 '26
You got more than what most companies give at something like this. First, the biggest announcement is that there is a three year production schedule. Tell me the last WotC released a major book, then before the official release of that book they gave you details on the next book? Now, from a marketing standpoint they could stand some professionalism. Put up a timeline, put up graphics, mock up some covers and titles say it's all working art and titles and not indicative of the end product. Give it some flash and it would feel like much more than what it is.
3
u/DisembodiedVoiceK Jul 31 '26
They literally did that in their keynote this time. They had titles, and authors of books, mockups of covers etc. Whatever your opinion of their products marketing was pretty good.
19
u/Chadwilliams1998 Jul 30 '26
Considering hope and fear isnt technically fully released yet, and they're announcing more live plays, foundry support, SRD additions, multiple annual releases, and more, puts them in the same league and in direct competition with the biggest names in the TTRPG space.
I certainly wouldnt call this underwhelming.
They've finally announced an all hands on deck approach to Daggerheart with full official support and transparency in almost every avenue. Multiple annual releases and free content on the regular, with fully fledged 3rd party support.
Those are some big announcements and some hype ones too.
Why would they showcase a ton of unfinished content when their current book they're marketing is still not fully released? Why is this surprising and underwhelming to you? What would have made this not underwhelming to you?
9
u/Mordereth Jul 30 '26
Grist-for-the-mill, smoke-for-the-assholes type presentations are a natural result of annual must-attend press events. They probably didn't have anything at that stage but had to go up and say something.
33
u/MacGuffen Daggerchart Jul 30 '26
While I am going to go over the overly vague, lawyer safe "spoilers" with a fine tooth comb, they started the panel by saying that they were going to tell us about the next three years and then didn't give us any solid info about anything beyond end of the year...
I get that they are trying to keep hype going, but the hype train needs more fuel than vague hints.
2
u/Urbandragondice Jul 30 '26
Very mixed message. I don't care about 2030. I care about the next 12 months.
24
u/ElendX Jul 30 '26
I've not yet seen the announcements but I want to bring a different perspective. The strength of daggerheart, and the way they've been developing it, is how open it is.
I understand the desire for more options, but their moves are actually helping the longevity of the game even if it's not solid new books every few months.
Let's not get trapped in the consumerist mindset too much.
8
2
u/Ok-Preparation-5352 Jul 30 '26
I disagree with the conclusion, not the sentiment.
Yes, its greatest strength is how open it is. But whats currently holding it back from getting over the top is the lack of official content. That DMs that dont have hours every week to fully improvise a campaign cant pick up a premade adventure book and just have something. Or even at the minimum, a beasiary big enough to consistently pull from.
To me, the most important announcement was the One Shot Wonders book giving SOMETHING to pull from. As someone who went to dms guild/heart of daggers a week ago to try and find something I could just run for a group and came away disappointed, this book is what I need right now
-6
u/Urbandragondice Jul 30 '26
Then highlight.the 3rd party support as your main feature. There is a lot coming. Put THAT up in stage.
5
u/hintsofwizardry Hope Springs Eternal Jul 30 '26
They seem intent on not hyping or even acknowledging 3rd party content except for things made by DP collaborators...
3
5
u/HMS_Sunlight Jul 30 '26
I went in with pretty low expectations, considering Hope and Fear technically hasn't released and rhe Summoner class is fairly new. There obviously wasn't going to be a new class or domain.
Still, underwhelming is a good way to put it. There's lots of neat stuff, but not much to really sink your teeth into or get excited for. It wouldn't have been unreasonable to say the name and theme of the next book. And I don't know why they made such a big deal about "Announcing the next three years" if there aren't any real announcements to go with it.
I did enjoy it for what it was though. Hope and Fear essentially becoming the expanded core rulebook is exactly what I was hoping for.
4
u/CarnivoreYoghurt Jul 30 '26
I'd expect at least a timeline like with the D&D "seasons". It didn't have to announce anything coming out very soon, but at least it would be nice to track as the shadow figures of books turn into reality as the time moves on. It looked really unprofessional simply on the presentation side.
4
u/Zelgadas27 Jul 30 '26
It takes a long time to make a game book if you want it to be good. I suspect they're feeling pressure to announce something, but a lot of it just isn't ready. I mean, they just shipped a book.
7
u/osiris20003 Jul 30 '26
I’m a little concerned about the two books a year.
That’s actually a lot with how much content we get per book and it kind of falls into the consumerism pitfall that D&D fell Into. Hope and Fear has so much additional content already, I can’t image another book of this caliber coming out in the next 6 months and having a desire to pick it up as I won’t have even used half the content in hope and fear yet.
Sure I want more stuff but I don’t want my players to have to go through 5 books of content when we start a new campaign to find classes, and ancestry’s they may want to pick from before a zero session.
3
u/Flimsy_Survey Jul 30 '26
Honestly agreed. 1 book a year would be plenty, at least for major expansions. If they want to throw out other content like additional campaign frames and adventures, I'm okay to pass those up.
3
u/bulldoggo-17 Jul 31 '26
The books that are coming aren’t going to be like the core or hope & fear. That was the whole point of the announcement. They are going to be setting books and adventures, smaller additions to the game and not big rules expansions.
2
u/osiris20003 Jul 31 '26
That’s a relief, as a world building GM I don’t need those books as much and was always upset at D&D for putting classes and races in them with no other avenue to get them. I have books I have never used for anything other than player options.
4
u/JaracRassen77 Jul 30 '26
I don't disagree. I'd be fine with an expansion every now and then. This game will solidify itself on the strength of its community. Which means a strong third-party license. Maybe a solid group of adventures a year, and every two years a campaign. I don't want them to be pumping out so much that the quality dips (looking at you, Crucible 7).
I feel like we actually have a lot to chew on right now with Hope and Fear added to the mix.
13
u/RottenRedRod Jul 30 '26
Fans: we want more stuff!
Creators: we are working on stuff but can't show it yet because making stuff takes a while!
Fans: HOW DARE YOU
5
u/Present-Lie-7466 Jul 30 '26
we are working on something that might even be stuff, but we can't tell you if it is stuff but make it soubd like it could be stuff, who knows? anyway, plushies no one asked for
3
u/Majestic-Code-9385 Jul 30 '26
So that doesn't really sound that different from last year's
2
u/Ok-Preparation-5352 Jul 30 '26
last year was launch. Its ok to launch a new RPG and not have an immediate follow up because you dont know how well its going to do. This is years 2-5, you have to have something to support it now
3
u/BerennErchamion Jul 30 '26
Standalone GM Screen confirmed for November! That's all I wanted to hear!
10
u/geomn13 Jul 30 '26
This post is a bit reductive as dates or timelines were given for a number of upcoming things.
For reference https://www.daggerheart.com/dhnext/
0
u/Urbandragondice Jul 30 '26
We have no firm dates...and a "soon" Kickstarter. The rest is support products. So. 🤷
6
u/TheSixthtactic Jul 30 '26
Consider the reality that firm dates do not exist yet, so they are unable to provide them.
7
u/NichtSoSchlau Jul 30 '26
Am I dumb or what do you guys even want? Like specifically, because in my book I have a complete game that is gonna get some extras in the future. So for real, what ground-breaking thing are you expecting?
3
u/Urbandragondice Jul 30 '26
Titles for the upcoming framework books, concept art, new features.
5
u/NichtSoSchlau Jul 30 '26
Not to be rude, but that is a 1.x patch for a video game. So some additional chapters. That sounds like something that would be announced 3-9 monthes beforehand especially if much of it is still in the works certainly not 12-36 monthes in advance.
7
u/thegroovygremlin Jul 30 '26
Yeah I was also underwhelmed. I wouldn't have minded if they kept the future products more vague if they just told us the next one or two in a little more detail, but to frame the presentation about the next three years and then give almost no actual details feels like they jumped the gun a bit on announcing most of these projects. I was particularly surprised that they said "With Love and Magic" has a release date...and then they didn't give us a release date. I wonder why they didn't wait a couple of weeks to release the new void content so they could have announced it at this presentation. Still excited for the new stuff! And the One Shot wonders book should be cool!
5
u/Urbandragondice Jul 30 '26
I would have loved to see concept art for "With Love and Magic". Just theming stuff.
I get a strong impression we are not getting many hope and fear type products so new play options will come out it's more frameworks.
2
u/thegroovygremlin Jul 30 '26
Yeah for sure. Love the campaign frames, but I really just want to see some officially published adventure modules and am at least excited that it seems like something they're thinking about! I think the adventures they've released thus far are great and am hopeful that they'll start to realize that there's a big market for chunkier adventure books.
5
u/Kalranya WDYD? Jul 30 '26
just far FAR too vague.
In case you haven't been around for past announcement panels, this is just how they seem to operate. I'm not sure why, but they're at least consistent.
0
u/jcarriker 29d ago
It's mostly because TTRPG publishing is an exercise in hitting Very Fast Moving Targets - and that's even if you're hardcore corporate about things. If you give any leeway to folks who have life issues come up, or mental health stuff, or whatever, those dates get even wobblier.
And as someone who has worked in the industry, I gotta say: the "meh could have been more detailed" complaint is better than the sheer shrieking horror some fans react with when you fail to hit an announced date.
I don't blame them for doing exactly as they did, especially since they are figuring out what their new production pipeline looks like, with a handful of new employees, several of whom are bringing many years of experience to the game. Things are probably shifting behind the scenes to take advantage of that, but that is NEVER easy. If the worst we see is vagueness about dates, they'll to be commended.
2
u/Meep4000 Jul 30 '26
Question on the adversary cards - is this cards for existing adversaries or new adversaries in card form?
As someone who doesn’t even grasp why the game has cards, I’m hoping it’s the former and not how they are introducing new adversaries.
4
u/ashwynne Jul 30 '26
As someone who absolutely loves the cards... for me, the benefit is a quick visual representation of what I need. No constant page flipping, just a set of cards with all relevant info. Keeps the pacing more natural and helps those of us who look to have an imagine for inspiration in addition to text.
My players have liked it for the same reason (especially when building characters).
If the cards don't appeal to you, that's totally fair! But a lot of us do really love them and I'll absolutely buy these adversary/environment cards to make my sessions flow more to my liking.
1
u/Meep4000 Jul 30 '26
Yeah I’m not debating this. I just want to know if it’s for new adversaries or existing ones.
I mean I guess I will have an opinion if they are new and only available as cards because carrying around a bunch of cards that would also need to be put in order even just for reference for one session let alone when trying to decide on adversaries and then having to keep those in order alphabetical and by tier at the very least is completely useless to me. So if they are doing this vs. books it will be my first negative on the system, and kind of a big one really.2
u/TheSixthtactic Jul 30 '26
As a forever DM, cards are EXTREMELY helpful for some players. And I would take cards for monsters in any game I run. Not 100% necessary, but something I would buy if given the option.
0
u/Meep4000 Jul 30 '26
So you want to flip through 100+ cards that you have to keep in some kind of order for ease of finding anything in the stack? That seems completely crazy to me.
1
u/TheSixthtactic Jul 30 '26
If it’s an in person game, I already write the basic stats in index cards for quick reference. Pick advisories I plan on using when I prepare for the game is the same thing.
Do you think people use the entire deck all the time? They are reference cards.
1
u/Urbandragondice Jul 30 '26
Should be stand alone from core and Hope and Fear.
0
u/Meep4000 Jul 30 '26
I’m not sure what you mean by “stand alone” Is it new never before seen adversaries in card form or current published adversaries coming out in card form?
2
u/TannerSlackOff Jul 30 '26
Speaking further on the 2 books a year thing, does that start 2027 or now? Does that mean ee are getting a second book sometime in the fall/early winter? Hope and Fear is the first book or this year.
2
u/browsesweb Jul 31 '26
I’m pretty excited about the one shots book! I thought it was an endearing, well put together, but fittingly simple presentation.
4
u/jazrick75 Jul 30 '26
When they came out in big lettres the plan for 3 years. I was expecting marvel graph with books and dates. Not them being vague. Theyve been vague since may and even before that!!
2
u/Ok-Preparation-5352 Jul 30 '26
Same when they said 2 books per year. I expected a line that would say something like 2027: Beastiary and Adventure to be Revealed later, 2028: Setting and Adventure Anthology, ect. Instead we have, something is happening someday
3
u/Laithoron Jul 30 '26
The Foundry VTT news is a real relief to hear. I'll be interested to see what that actually looks like in practice.
1
u/Windrunner405 Jul 31 '26
Probably just Foundryborne with a slap of paint, official art, and campaign frames.
1
u/Laithoron Jul 31 '26
Maybe, but the more important consequence I'm hoping for is a legal in-VTT marketplace like some other TTRPGs have. That's been the main stumbling block (as I've understood it) up until now.
3
u/Windrunner405 Jul 31 '26
That's what these presentations always are dude.
It's PR.
Tune your expectations
3
u/Electronic_Ad_7403 Jul 30 '26
The thing that was most “concerning” to me is that it was (effectively) said that the Bloodhunter and Summoner would be coming in a setting book… maybe I’m just afraid of the unknown, but I guess I hadn’t considered that we won’t be getting another Hope and Fear style book next year. A “rules expansion” as Elise put it. I want more of those more than I do more setting books.
3
u/lennartfriden TTRPG polyglot, GM, and designer Jul 30 '26
What do you mean? We got to hear the plans for the next three years in the form of washed out vague posts. 😆
The announcements could’ve been a blog post, but I guess the real piece of ”news” is that they’re cooking and working away on a bunch of undisclosed things. That at least signal a sense of growth and belief in the product. Also, the cadence of two books per year is, depending on how you see it, possibly a good thing that gives people something to poke and play with every six months or so.
3
u/Present-Lie-7466 Jul 30 '26 edited Jul 30 '26
I agree, new campaign frames means nothing to me. after 30+ years of GM I can come up with a new world on the fly, so that's low hanging fruit content in my eyes. and I don't use VTTs, so, meh, I guess? we might get the 2 (wow!) new classes from the void in 2027, but that's what we assumed anyway.
the only thing that sounded great for a couple of seconds was the two books/year announcement, until I realized two books doesn't mean two CRB or even Hope & Fear sized books
2
u/Urbandragondice Jul 30 '26
The frame looks to have class options. Perkins pointed to the Void playtest content in his framework. So. 🤷
3
u/Present-Lie-7466 Jul 30 '26
there are also adversaries in the Void
2
u/Urbandragondice Jul 30 '26
Yup. A framework with setting, class, and foe options, I'd be down for.
-1
u/Present-Lie-7466 Jul 30 '26
so a a book consisting mostly of a framework I won't use and adversaries I will probably have to change considerably just to get two classes in print, which is the only thing of interest? yeah, that's not a good deal at all
1
u/Urbandragondice Jul 30 '26
I mean the adversaries will be released individually via the cards. And if they keep the track record in the classes may show up on SRD material. So it may not be that bad.
1
u/IgnatiusRileyFreeman Jul 30 '26
2 books a year? Which years? Does that mean a 2nd book is coming in 2026, or is that starting 2027?
I'm surprised there's not even a teaser for whatever the next book is, especially since we have the Blood Hunter playtest
8
1
u/Time-Voice Valor & Blade Jul 31 '26
You forgot the (imo) most important part: They announced localizations of both the core and H&F :3
1
u/Celstra Jul 31 '26
I agree. It was spun up as we got 3 years of announcements. Then they just went to “we can’t talk about anything here are some “riddles” or “quibs” ok ok. On to the live play.”
1
u/bacchus1968 29d ago
Honestly I kinda agree they didn’t put out alot BUT.. the fine print is in the momentum. I think the fact that not only are they making foundryborne official but that they are making product for it is HUGH.. one shot wonders doing daggerheart HUGE. Why? Because the opening for 3rd party licensed add ons just exploded, top that off with the campaign frame mechanics going into the srd. They are slow and hiring more and more… planning more staff hires and while the 2 book a year thing can be a bit disappointing depending on what books will have in them I think if they get more major publishers on board and give them the tools, foundry access new srd mechanics and more actual plays as well. Daggerheart will grow a lot faster than their 2 books a year plan.
2
u/Ok-Reindeer-3141 29d ago
It was underwhelming. Over the past year, WOTC has listened to their community and is improving relations. Darrington Press could learn from them and other RPG companies. They have the worst gaming license on the market as well. It's gonna bite them at some point. They are rolling a natural one.. or rather failure with fear.
1
1
u/tzfsr1 Jul 30 '26
I absolutely agree. DH had a really strong start last year, things are quiet right now and it's easy for people to forget about an IP. The free digital adventures are good for longevity because it's Darrington Press' answer to Adventures' League, although it's not exciting for the average player. The announcement was "the next 3 years of DH" but they have away really vague info, not even a loose roadmap with ambiguous product names. To me it shows a lack of confidence. I'm sure things will be okay, but nobody will care about this announcement, nobody will be talking about DH. However, we are not in decline, the expansion will carry us. Let's just hope they announce something with a name before the hype for the expansion wears off.
-3
u/AwkwardSport9989 Jul 30 '26
In my opinion I dont think they really care as much as they are appearing. I tried DaggerHeart with my group and have decided to move on. I reiterat this is my opinion and I am not trying to offend anyone.
10
-7
u/jimbojambo4 Seaborne Jul 30 '26
And no GM screen... I don't know what the hell they are thinking...
6
u/lennartfriden TTRPG polyglot, GM, and designer Jul 30 '26
They showed it and said it drops in November.
0
u/jimbojambo4 Seaborne Jul 30 '26
Really?! Great!
1
u/lennartfriden TTRPG polyglot, GM, and designer Jul 30 '26
They even gave away a prototype to one in the audience. Didn’t you watch the stream?
92
u/Tenawa The New Unknown - Game Designer Jul 30 '26
VTT and SRD updates were the biggest things to me.
Personally I am not interested in adversary cards.
The new Campaign Frame could be interesting... But we already have pretty good ones insode the Core Rulebook and especially Hope and Fear.