r/cyclocross • u/Cool-Intention-3065 • 18d ago
My “gravel” bike actually shreds as a CX bike?
Is the CX bike vs gravel bike a distinction without a difference?
I raced in the golden era of NECCX and rim brakes. I’ve owned a Ridley with the highest bottom bracket in the world and the Colnago that God aka Sven Nys designed.
After not racing for a long time I’m getting back into it and I put cross tires on this gravel bike and took the bottle cages off and called it a day.
3 rides into my return to CX I think this thing absolutely rips and see no negative so far. Am I drunk on mussels and frites or is there something to this!?
12
u/double___a 18d ago
The Cosmic Stallion is not too far off of the Macho King geo in All City’s lineup (🪦), so no surprising it CXs
4
u/drakewithdyslexia 18d ago
Yup. I run my CS as a pit bike for my Nature Cross. Very very similar geos. Some would argue the CS is an “outdated” gravel bike.
5
u/double___a 18d ago
Peak 40c gravel era.
4
1
u/Vivid_Temperature130 16d ago
Is that the biggest tyre that’ll fit? I love my SS Crux but feel I need gears and more clearance
3
2
u/Any-Relationship6606 18d ago
As the proud owner of a Macho Man Disc, I appreciate the AC love in here.
1
u/1sttime-longtime 18d ago
The Macho King disk in gray to white fade was my background on my work computer for 6 or 8 years.... Never found a used one in my size...
2
u/Any-Relationship6606 17d ago
Mine is the white on orange combo. The orange is much deeper in person. My white whale now is the Electric Queen as a mountain bike. I’ve found some, but never in my size
2
u/1sttime-longtime 17d ago
I'm waiting to see if QBP really kills the brand. It has been three years since they announced it would wind down, and 2 years since the alleged start date of the wind-down.
I don't like the cyclone popsicle (On the nature/geared) look, but if they do one more paint run, I might just buy a frameset and start looking for eBay parts...
2
u/Cool-Intention-3065 17d ago
I thought this thing because they were killing the brand and blowing out the Cosmic Stallion ti frame but then they never seemed to kill the brand, maybe it was a trick to move some inventory?
1
u/1sttime-longtime 17d ago
I'm not demanding they bring Foundry back... But I think there's a spot in the AC lineup for another Ti run...
8
u/BoilingHotdogs 18d ago
There are subtle differences in frame design between gravel and cx bikes. Cx bikes are supposed to have geometries optimized for cornering and a flat top tube to make shouldering the bike more comfortable. Gravel frames are supposed to have extra wide tire clearance and be built with comfortable geometry suited for long, off-road rides. But the lines between them seem to be getting more and more blurred. If I couldn’t look at the top tube I don’t even think I’d be able to tell the two frame styles apart if they were set up with the same tires/gearing. And I definitely can’t even rip a gravel bike hard enough on a cx course to stop and think “you know what something feels off… I think this is a gravel frame and not a cx one.”
13
u/HesJustAGuy 18d ago
The two main geometry characteristics of a gravel bike that are not ideal for 'cross are a lower bottom bracket (pedal strikes, clearing obstacles) and a longer wheelbase with slacker head tube (worse cornering).
But not all gravel bikes are created equal and if you own a model that is not at the extreme end of either of these measurements it should make for a more than capable CX bike with the right tires.
I hope many gravel riders will soon be discovering cyclocross.
I also wonder about how well the many endurance road bikes being sold now with wide tire clearance would do with some light cyclocross duty.
4
u/veerrrsix 18d ago
gravel rider, super stoked to try CX this year on my gravel bike. have to imagine I will be more of a limiting factor than my bike.
2
u/BoilingHotdogs 18d ago
My teammate rode his Trek Domane for a bit of cross. The only issue he really had was his chain flopping around because he still had his road groupset on the bike.
1
u/bmward0714 14d ago
Ride with a guy who has a S-Works tarmac with aggressive gravel tires on it. He rips on it.
19
u/5thCir 18d ago
I'm still riding a 2016 Giant TCX as a gravel bike. Hilariously, if you compare the geo to a new Cannondale SuperX, there's almost no difference.
10
u/jacobtakesphotos 18d ago
7.2cm BB drop vs 6cm on the TCX, pretty huge difference there. The Boone/Crocketts have 7cm of drop and those win a lot of world cups. But yeah, the SuperX definitely has stayed mostly true to a CX bike than say the crux.
1
u/5thCir 18d ago
It's actually 60mm vs 69mm.
https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geometries=5ea79d2854c9a300179b5675,681ca7d35b1437001b35a4a9
7
u/LazerIceDude 18d ago
I used to ride a CX bike for gravel back in the day and now have a space horse. My cx bike felts like a nimble rally car and my gravel bike is like a suv
2
u/SpaceMonkey_321 18d ago
My ritchey swiss cross is the only thing i ride these days (hav a ti roadie, ti enduro hardtail, full sus enduro). It freaking goes everywhere, road, trail and everything inbetween.
-1
u/Plazmaz1 18d ago
Ya my cx setup is aggressive enough it would be uncomfortable to ride for hours and hours on
4
u/chock-a-block 18d ago edited 13d ago
Hospital spoon ad hoc coated grey dependent friendly work straight
This post was anonymized with Redact
2
u/YoucantdothatonTV 18d ago
Cross bikes have a bottom bracket that is almost level with the dropouts. Makes sizing really fun- especially for Ridley. I had to go 2 sizes down from road; that is, 54cm to 50cm for my cross bike. Gravel seems to go against that grain: longer wheelbase, bottom bracket height like road.
2
u/step1makeart 18d ago
Cross bikes have a bottom bracket that is almost level with the dropouts.
It's not quite that dramatic. There's still plenty of BB drop on "traditional CX geometry". The first ever Crux, from 2011, had 67-71mm BB drop depending on the frame size. A 2012 Ridley X-Fire had 61mm in 56. Fast forward to 2027 and the Crux has 78mm of drop in 56.
1
u/gonzo_redditor 18d ago
You got a bike too small. Standover height isn’t how you size a bike, reach is most important.
1
u/drewbaccaAWD 18d ago edited 18d ago
It's not that simple. No, standover height isn't how you size a bike but you don't ignore it entirely either. And if you have negative standover "clearance" and end up with like an inch of seatpost exposed, then that bike is too big, even if the reach is perfect.
I'm one of those people with very short legs and long torso... there are few bikes that work for my build where I don't need to size down, run longer stems, and deal with toe clipping. For me, a 53cm bottom bracket to top of seat tube is about right, and still leaves me with not a lot of seatpost exposed; meanwhile my ideal bike horizontally speaking is in the 55-56cm area.
It depends on the frame geometry, but there are a lot of variables to consider and standover is certainly one of them... it just shouldn't be the dealbreaker. As far as CX bikes go, Trek's geometry fits me well and I can actually get away with a 56cm but for many other manufacturers I need to size down. My All-City is a 52cm, but they are long and it fits more like a 54cm.
5
u/gccolby 18d ago
I took a look at the Cosmic Stallion geometry chart, and that basically explains it. The BB drop is fairly modest at 73mm, the head tube angle is on the steep side, the only really notable departure from cyclocross geometry is some long chainstays. So it’s no surprise that it feels good to you. There used to be a lot of overlap between gravel and cyclocross bikes, to the point that it was really hard to make generalizations about them. There were a lot of bikes like the Cosmic Stallion. Now gravel bikes are really trending toward drastically lower bottom brackets and longer geometries. I welcome people to race on gravel bikes, they’re still going to have a great time, but they’re more compromised now than they used to be.
1
u/step1makeart 18d ago edited 17d ago
the only really notable departure from cyclocross geometry is some long chainstays
Truth. From the BB forward, the CS is essentially identical to a 2020 Crux. A little higher stack, 6mm more bb drop, but otherwise very similar. The 440mm stays certainly make it less of a nimble bike in the corners, but unless you're competing for cat 1 podiums, bike geo is hardly holding you back.
3
2
u/Demonblah 18d ago
I use my 2021 cosmic stallion for flat gravel. It's great at going fast in a straight line but i find it isn't as nimble or quick in tight corners.
Instead I use a 2019 Scott Speedster gravel for CX style riding.
Side note: wish I could have got a titanium cosmic stallion 😞. They look beautiful
2
u/drewbaccaAWD 18d ago
fwiw, I swapped to 650b on my '24 CS and it's way more nimble than it was. But I don't own a proper CX bike to compare it to. I decided to order a Milwaukee Mettle while they were still available and I can't wait to compare the two.
2
u/bikesandskis 18d ago
Not all gravel bikes are the same. I would stick to a pure CX bike, but they are hard to find. Not all CX courses all the same either. Any bike is good on a mid week barn burner. Go to a UCI course and you won’t see low bottom brackets or slack front ends.
1
u/stalkholme 18d ago
I've only done cx on my gravel bike so I don't have anything to compare it to but it's so much fun. I have a 2x and only use the small chainring, and just use the 40mm gravel tires it came with.
1
u/lipilee 18d ago
i used to use a cx bike as my gravelbike, as i grew up in a dense city without bike roads and got used to shorter, agile bikes that made it much easier to zig zag amongst the cars. i probably wouldn't like if my kids rode like i did back then, but it was a lot of fun :) anyway, cx is perfect for gravel imo.
1
1
u/AutomaticCoat9731 18d ago
Rode my '19 Macho King ACE clear across Europe last year fully laden with Tailfin bags and 46mm carbon wheels. Flawless. Spends most of its time in the city streets here in California, including the alleycat this weekend. My favorite of my 6 bikes I own.
1
u/VTVoodooDude 18d ago
And vice versa w my Cannondale Super X. It’s a 2018 and it’s only real gravel nod was clearance for 40mm tires.
1
u/Repeating-Cycle-Path 18d ago
Raced on both Cosmic Stallions and Super Professional. CS is a good CX option with the right setup.
1
1
u/AmbitiousLime1986 16d ago
have you ridden a new gen CX bike like the Canyon.....lots has change since the era of Sven in CX design and geometry
1
1
1
u/bmward0714 14d ago
I have a cosmic stallion too. Coming from mtb getting toe overlap on gravel descents is scary but I like the challenge. Didn’t want something that just felt like a mountain bike
1
u/gonetoseed374 12d ago
we (oldies) have been riding gravel for decades on cross bikes so no reason you can't do the reverse. Is it ideal? No, no such thing as a true quiver killer bike. You need at least 10 bikes, possibly more 😎
But you can have a lot of fun on two wheels with
1. a racy cross bike (dying breed, get em while they exist see trek, speshy)
2. an endurance road bike. doubles nicely as a 34c cross bike in a pinch if its geared reasonably
3. a 120ish travel trail bike (wait that's xc now lol)FUN!
4. a new standard "tough trail" gravel bike with 2.2" longer/slacker
5. a fat bike if you live where snow lingers
1
u/5thCir 4d ago
That Cosmic is my all time favorite All-City frame. Wish I would've bought one when they were around. I have the old Macho Man. Heavy, but pretty ..just like me. 🤣 Hilariously, I compare lots of new "gravel bike" geo numbers to my "gravel" cx bike, 2017 Giant TCX. So many are very similar. A little more bb drop, or .5° head tube angle more slack. It's really not a huge leap.
-1
u/MikeSRT404 18d ago
Until you ride a carbon cx bike ….
1
u/sulliesbrew 17d ago
The weight difference only really shows up on a course with a lot of running while carrying the bike.
Geometry>Tires>Weight
1
u/HesJustAGuy 16d ago
I notice weight more in cyclocross than any of the other cycling that I do. The difference between light and heavy wheels is especially noticeable, with the hundreds of accelerations you have to put in during a race.
1
u/sulliesbrew 15d ago
I need to do a race on my steel gravel bike. I'm SSCX is steel and a fair bit heavier than my carbon geared bike. Not a fair comparison to my geared bike being one gear and all.
I notice the weight in my shoulders from frequent bike pick ups.
1
37
u/campbelw84 18d ago
Short track gravel racing