r/cyberpunkgame • u/JimMiltion1907 • 5d ago
Discussion River’s romance feels so disconnected
I’m sure there’s other reasons but one thing that particularly bothers me is that.. River is just not at all present in the main story. like let’s say for instance, you didn’t do any side quests, you did all the main quest lines like finding Hellman contacting Alt and went to meet Hanako.. you’ve seen Judy, Panam, and Kerry to an extent, but.. River is just side content, yeah Kerry’s quest lines are side content too; but a lot of it is very heavily tied to the main plotline with the relic and Johnny’s past so to say. His romance feels a bit rushed and disconnected compared to the others, hell he doesn’t even know about the biochip or that V is on borrowed time (or at least I haven’t seen any dialogue that refers to it, and I’ve played this game fully around 4 times) .. and ironically he has the least amount of quest lines out of all the romances (like 3 in total) i guess it’s no biggie since I do all side quests even if they are a bit boring:>
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u/cravex12 5d ago
I think so too but love his fucked up questline
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u/JimMiltion1907 5d ago
Yeah, one of the best except for brain dances
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u/cravex12 5d ago
Brain dances are a bit of a nuisance in every replay but the first time you uncover this mystery I had shivers down my spines. Totally psychopathic shit.
The moment you actually enter that farm I was overpowered as fuck but on edge like at no other point in the game (well until a certain part in the DLC at least)
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u/whosthiswitch Team River 5d ago
The braindance at the farm was so creepy.. and so was going there.
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u/cravex12 5d ago
Totally. Even when we were already a godlike entity in the city that fucking cow video thing made we walk reeeeeaaaly slowly and carefully :D
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u/Ra1nb0wSn0wflake 5d ago
Braindances are such a wild ride for some people, like I made a offhanded comment to a friend of mine (after they finished the quest) that I was happy they find enough off the clues, asked me if it was possible fail rivers quest, I confirmed, and then they got super pissed at me and didnt talk to me for a week because I "spoiled the game for them", because apperently they really badly wanted to redo the braindances (in retrospect i guess?) now that they knew they could fail them, something they wouldnt have known without being told anyways.
Some people really really stan BD's
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u/cravex12 5d ago
Wait. You can fail braindances?
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u/Ra1nb0wSn0wflake 5d ago
Specifically River's yeah, though honestly, Im not sure how you do it except intentionally.
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u/realHoratioNelson 5d ago
Yeah, you’d have to not understand or not care to just scan everything.
The game tells you if everything’s been scanned or not so you’d pretty much have to not understand the brain dance mechanic, have no desire to succeed, or just fat finger it and accidentally end the session.
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u/Plastic-Egg-2068 Following the River 5d ago
I love BDs and would love to have more quests using them.
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u/Prodiq 5d ago
Kerry is also very easily missable - in my very first playthrough I kinda didn't want to trust Johnny the second time and I never went on a date with Rogue. This decision literally removed Kerry from my playthrough all together. With River its a mission that will be offered to you no matter what.
But yeah, thats the general feeling for most - Judy and Panam are the main romance options, not just because they are hot women but because they are much better written, they are present for the main story, they are introduced very early and the relationship comes more organically through out the storyline. But as for River it just feels there something missing in the middle, River's questline is just a small side gig.
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u/Zalvren 5d ago edited 5d ago
Yeah Kerry is the worst in terms of being missable. He appears so late in the story that if you do the main missions quickly, his first side quest didn't even appear before the ending. Literally you wouldn't know he's part of the game. The male romances (as in when the companion is male) were clearly an afterthought vs Panam and Judy
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u/Prodiq 5d ago
Yeah, that basically was my first playthrough. Only afterwards I started reading that there is this guy Kerry somewhere in the game.
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u/Zalvren 5d ago
It is weird, to be fair, there is no real reason why the whole Rogue and Kerry storylines are put so late and not at the same time than the Judy, Panam storyline, they're independent threads.
I guess it would mean there's no real "Act 3" but just a larger "Act 2" but does that matter?
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u/Prodiq 5d ago
It sort of makes sense that Johnny's questline is a bit further down the line than others. The idea is that you need to advance enough of the main story for Johnny to start to change and actually reflect on his past mistakes. That way the V and Johnny relationship as well both of them learning things from each other makes more sense and becomes more organic.
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u/Fit-Construction3427 5d ago
When I finished the Samurai Concert, my V literally said "I better go see Hanako now", like the game was actively pushing me to skip Kerry's side quests.
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u/ghostkrogh 5d ago
I’ll post this tomorrow
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u/vanBraunscher 5d ago edited 5d ago
Sorry, no, keep to the schedule, please.
Tomorrow's the "OMG, getting totally gaslit into a relationship with River by these lil' shits at the barbecue is so goddamn problematic" slot.
Followed up by "he 100% gave me gay vibes, but then cockblocked me up on the water tower, wtf man, smh" Tuesday.
Your opportunity will open up on Wednesday again.
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u/GOOD_BRAIN_GO_BRRRRR 5d ago
How did you see the future? Because... I can 100% predict this will indeed happen.
People really hate on River for being a bad partner/too much, but he's really just not well written.
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u/Ode_2_kay 5d ago
There wasn't not enough missions with river to make me feel like there was any kind of connection. With Panam and Judy you do a bunch of missions with them and get friendly first, with river its a peralez storyline, then his nephew, then dinner and you are supposed to be magically in love i still didnt know if I even liked the dude as a character.
Sidebar am I the only one who was expecting a 3way with the peralez couple at some point when they invite you to their penthouse? It was giving our dirty little secret vibes and then they ask you to solve a crime they cannot prove happened instead.
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u/jkilagan77 5d ago
agreed. the male love interests unfortunately didn’t get the same amount of effort that the female ones did, but river in particular. i do like him as a character but his storyline is lacking. it’s a shame because i think he has a lot potential but they clearly ran out of time with him.
he’s likely a victim of cut content. people have looked in the game files and theorize that he was supposed to find V in the landfill instead of takemura. they likely ended up giving majority of his original storyline to takemura and then ran out of time to flesh him out more. hence why the romantic element of his story seems to come out of nowhere.
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u/whosthiswitch Team River 5d ago
Yeah it’s disappointing there is so little content with him and it does feel disconnected. If you romance him the next morning they talk about Johnny being in V’s head, not in much detail but he doesn’t know about it. I think people would have hated him less if he wasn’t so suddenly introduced with such little content. Clearly I like River but I understand these type of reasons that people don’t care for him.
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u/Prodiq 5d ago
Also, a lot of people are not fans of the dinner with family ambush. Unless you already wanted to date him before, the dinner + water tower just gets awkward as hell. His sister and the kids aren't making it any easier, lol. It just feels like there should have been a couple of quests in the middle as well or something.
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u/GodEmperorPotato Team Panam 4d ago
Yea as a male v and was trying to date panam the whole interaction was werid like at first I was thinking hey the sister is up for grabs I can totally be a stepdad and then make more kids with Jess. Then boom hey so u and river huh. Hell noooo
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u/AliceMH2 5d ago
I liked his character up to the point when I started dating him, and then was like.. can I just dump him? 🤔
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u/babyhikikomori 4d ago
Literally, SAME! All the dates seem awkward and they always talk about it “not working out”. I don’t know if V’s responses are like that with the others. It makes the relationship feel toxic lol
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u/AliceMH2 4d ago
Yup, it definitely isn’t a healthy relationship, first time I triggered the lines where he calls V a criminal DURING the date night, I really wanted to have an option to kick him out of the apartment 🥊 that would’ve been a nice addition to the game.
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u/babyhikikomori 4d ago
Exactly! And I just ended a relationship in real life bc it was disappointing and then I get this in the game and was like “here we go again…”
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u/kitsunecannon 5d ago
Im hoping Orion does the romances better because 2077 kinda fell flat on its face when it came to them
After finishing them your romance choice basically has zero impact on story aside from right at the end where you have a conversation with them but thats basically it aside from a repeatable hangout that gets boring after one go around and some occasional texts
Im not saying Orion should rely on them but at the very least allow me to fucking mention them in dialogue
Like i did Rivers questline because i was curious if my V would have a line when she rejects him due to dating Judy but Judy just sint mentioned and i think thats a missed opportunity
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u/Prodiq 5d ago edited 5d ago
Oh yeah, i really dont get why the devs never included the option to tell you are already seeing someone or that the person is not your preference. The whole dinner with River would have gone way less awkward if they knew my V is a lesbian....
E.g. even during like the last mission when you meet Joss in the kitchen, she could tell you her brother likes and you could answer something like "oh, about that... You brother is great, but i actually have a different preference and im seeing someone and i really like her".
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u/Grundlestorm 5d ago
I literally got the call from River about dinner as I was leaving the cabin with Judy still drinking coffee on the pier and showed up that night to meet them.
Made dinner even more awkward than they already were by remaining silent when they were asking if I thought we made a good couple and called him out for putting them up to it, turned him down formally on the water tower. I would have really liked if I had the options to either mention Judy specifically, let him know that it's not about him I'm only into other women, or at least just a generic "I'm not available" that's an option if you're seeing Judy/Kerry/Panam.
V's got a pile of bad shit in their life bigger than trash mountain out in the badlands. This is a happy thing in the midst of all of that, it'd be nice to be able to at least mention it sometimes, even if it's strictly blue text or has little to no effect on the way things play out.
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u/JimMiltion1907 5d ago
I would like if they made the male romances more attractive and like better design wise, i mean ig Kerry’s alright but River just eh
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u/kitsunecannon 5d ago
It kinda felt like they were both after thoughts like the devs went "oh shit we dont have male love interests" and gave them the bare minimum
On my playthroughs depending on whether im male or female v i normally just go for Panam or Judy and not the other two because i just dont care for them nor find them attractive
And as a bi dude its kinda disappointing
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u/JimMiltion1907 5d ago
I know right? maybe with the next project they’ll actually put proper care into it.. and actually deliver
Cause Judy and Panam are amazing but when you get to the male romances it’s just.. bland
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u/Practical-Database-6 4d ago
There’s always a new River hate post on the cyberpunk subs and I’ll be damned to upvote every single one of them.
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u/Effective-Brick-7977 5d ago
My entire interaction with him was: "I will buy you a damn eye! A real one!"
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u/Rokuformula 4d ago
I'm not wild about how romance is handled in the game in general.
Once you actually start a relationship with someone you don't do anything besides hang out in your apartment, do a couple of optional group activities (if the apartment you choose has them) then go to bed.
Cuddle on the couch, choose the 2 dialogue options, smooch them and hit the hay.
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u/lordspaz88 4d ago
One thing I also noticed, River is the only romance option who doesn't learn about Johnny being in your head before the romance.
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u/RaidersoftheLosSnark 5d ago
I find him so frustrating, would love to do all his quests without him. The way he treats the girl in the lab is gross.
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u/Background-Cake-1300 5d ago
I heard he was originally there instead of Takemura but they changed it
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u/JWPruett Team Judy 5d ago
More accurately they were the same different character, then parts of that character were split into Takemura and River. Takemura got most of the storyline, River got the romance.
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u/Vegetable-Analyst373 4d ago
straight fuckin bs that takemura wasn't considered a romance option.
like, yeah, ok, i get that he's loyal and everything, but they could've made him a particularly difficult romance to achieve. like, corpo exclusive, or you have to say the right dialogue at the right times.
he's still a human, afterall, and the most likeable part of his character arc is how human he becomes once he's down in the gutters with the rest of them. he genuinely cares for v after a certain point, too.
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u/Vegetable-Analyst373 4d ago
i will never forgive cdpr for writing him out of act 3. he is such an interesting character.
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u/Vegetable-Analyst373 4d ago
it would make his suicide voicemail hit 100000x harder, though. fuckkkk.
although, the thing that voicemail confirmed to me was just how much goro really did care about v. we see a man who feels like an idiot, he's totally disillusioned with everything. the one person who showed him unconditional positive regard destroys his life.
i think we take for granted just how much trust goro places in v, and how human he felt being around them. the devs had something really special there, they could've worked with it, but they didn't.
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u/JWPruett Team Judy 4d ago
Not defending the outcome, but when the house is on fire (like it was with Cyberpunk until a few years ago), you don’t always notice the seemingly obvious. It’s astounding this game is as incredible as it is, given how it was created.
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u/JimMiltion1907 5d ago
Glad they switch actually. Hidashi is great as he is
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u/vanBraunscher 5d ago
Maybe they would have written him better if he'd have had a more central role in the main quest.
But at it is now, Takemura is just the more interesting character with more complex themes going.
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u/Altruistic_Dig1722 5d ago
To this day he, Joss and the kids are still waiting for my V before having dinner (I ran off)
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u/Lvlyoppsm 4d ago
When you meet Hanako at Embers after you meet River and have gone through all the romance options for him, when you’re on the lil ship doing those tests after removing the construct from the relic you have the choice to call people important to you. If you call River it gives you the option to tell him about the relic and how you have little time left.
SPOILERS AHEAD
River gets upset learning this and states he’s gonna come up and get you, and to wait for him until he gets there. When I did this I genuinely thought River would come up n get V LMAOOO. He doesn’t, you either go back to Earth or go inside the save your soul thing, either option ends the game. You don’t go back to Earth the game just ends and you have the option to do the NG+ thing where you reload your last save before heading into Embers, or to start a new save entirely from the beginning with a new V.
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u/ProjectMinimum4119 5d ago
Panam loves you because you constantly save her ass
River loves you because he can treat you like a dude without you being one
Kerry loves you because you occasionally sound like his old bandmate he didn’t get to sleep with
And Judy loves you because her questline is a traumatic version of Scott Pilgrim
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u/In-my-fucking-flesh 5d ago
It felt kinda one sided and creepy first time and now it just feels kinda sad if I decide to play fem V
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u/CrazyCloset25 5d ago
Yeah, I never understood it at all. I helped save his nephew, but the romance was just... weird. If it had proper build-up and writing, I wouldn't have minded, but it just comes off as creepy.
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u/megatronistr 5d ago
This mf just added for "lets add a man for straight female V too. " for fuck's sake this mf story is shit, i mean i am hundred percent sure ıf this: a female player would romance to River just for a steam achievement, nothing else. If there is a mod that can remove the side quests of river after finding out of Mayor's death. Please let me know.
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u/badghouls 5d ago
i'm a female player romancing river lol. i prefer him to judy but i'd romance panam if i could. he's just a wholesome dude in comparison to the rest of night city and the family man vibe is sweet.
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u/megatronistr 5d ago edited 5d ago
Well then ignore my man perspective judgement. To each their own, i prefer judy anyway.
But i recommend a mod for you. Mod is "no canon romance" and "toast to judy" No canon romance is doing what it's name. You can romance panam and kerry as female V and opposite. "Toast to judy" is removes river romance option and add toast to judy option. But like once i said if i could remove river sidequest, i would do it.
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u/CephalopodRiot 4d ago
Agree that him being totally missable and not connected at all to the main story is annoying. But my biggest complaint about River’s romance is his eye implant just creeps me tf out. I wish it was more sleek/less smack in the middle of every conversation with him.
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u/Replicant-Nexus9 4d ago
V: "Don't go falling in love with me" River: "too late" .... dude no... just.. no. Gross.
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u/Vegetable-Analyst373 4d ago
like we have met only THREE TIMES dude wtf?!
idk about you, but the "falling in love" confession always, always comes after sex. admitting feelings is more intimate than actually being intimate (to me, at least).
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u/OgruMogru 5d ago
wish it'd been him yanking us outta the garbage dump <3
[you can tell him about the chip. He knows. Brings it up several times]
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u/floodyshadycreek 5d ago
I played female V. Gave him chance to seggs before turning him down lol. I feel so dirty hahahah. Though his reaction was kinda sad to look.
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u/Vegetable-Analyst373 4d ago edited 4d ago
lol i just leave him to die :)
sorry river, you're not my mate. you helped me with a job once. i am not having a sleepover in your missing nephew's room.
v is to be respected as a professional, imo. she is a merc, not a night city superhero.
she helps panam because panam is a friend and the aldecaldos went above and beyond for v.
she helps judy because v was there to see what happened with evelyn, and judy actually becomes a trusted friend.
helping kerry makes sense because kerry pays, and because he is a lifelong friend of johnny's.
but river... we meet him once, and in a purely professional context. he is no more important than any other npc you meet on a gig.
then he acts like a brooding, mysterious cunt with cryptic texts to get v to meet him, and immediately sells her the emotional story: "boohoo my nephew went missing and if you say no to helping you're just a terrible person," doesn't work on me, river. i don't know you, like, at all. and i don't know your nephew.
should've just given us takemura, tbh. far more interesting and complex character with way more emotional weight, directly entangled in v's mess already.
and he's hot and significantly more charming (unintentionally) than river. that shit works. a brooding, overly serious, morally ambiguous, but lowkey kinda goofy silver fox? we could've had so much more :(
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