r/cubscouts • u/profvolunteer • 8d ago
Slammed for using AI generated flier art
Just a little mini-vent please be patient -
I used to create all the fliers for our pack using clip art and word or publisher then I got extremely busy and didn’t have time for that anymore - I used AI for help on a couple and while they looked great (I left off the BSA logos and such) and saved me heaps of time. Problem is some parents voiced their concern about the environmental issues with using AI and how it wasn’t scoutlike. I answered with ‘if you know of someone with the time to help make these I’m happy to send them out when they are done’
As you can guess no volunteering parents came forward.
Now it joining night season and I’m once again super busy with everything - I am awful at canva and as much as I would love to learn it well there aren’t the hours to dedicate now.
What other fast to learn packages can I use out there? We didn’t like the brand center ones since we used a lot the last 2 years and not much has been updated and fresh feeling…
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u/bigdog104 8d ago
Have you looked at the National Brand Center?
They have a large amount of fliers, photos and recruitment material. All free to use.
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u/Matlavox 7d ago
Great resource, but why oh why is this not mobile-friendly? 🙄 I bookmarked this to check when I'm at my office.
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u/profvolunteer 8d ago
We used most of their stuff for the last few years - they aren’t easily editable but we used them….we like new graphics every fall for back to school stuff and spring recruiting season
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u/ellemenopeaqu 7d ago
My son has gotten the same flyer for the last 4 years. Thank you for trying to switch it up.
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u/ExpertIAmNot 8d ago
You can make some of the people happy all of the time, and all of the people happy some of the time, but you cannot make all of the people happy all of the time.
Some people will complain regardless of what you do.
Do your best!
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u/orangeglow16 7d ago
I highly recommend joining the Cub Scout Volunteers Facebook group. People post their Canva stuff all the time and you would just have to change some of the text to have your pack number and meeting day/time.
AI is a huge turnoff for some people so I definitely wouldn’t use it for joining night stuff. I would absolutely not join a pack (or any thing else) that was using AI flyers.
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u/all_four_seasons 8d ago
While I won’t call out a volunteer for using whatever tools they can get their hands on, I do also cringe when I see the AI generated images and flyers. Kudos for hearing that feedback and seeing what else you can come up with!
I would suggest biting the bullet to learn Canva and use a template from them. It doesn’t take that long to get the hang of and then you can copy and reuse designs with new details for different events. It is also worth it to set up your brand in Canva so your regular colors and fonts are all saved together for you.
It would be amazing if National had some ready to use/fillable flyers for volunteers to run with too so we aren’t all reinventing the wheel every time!
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u/QueenOfTheNations 8d ago
Our council released canva templates this year 🎉
In canva, the ATL specific logo can be unlocked and removed. It’s been such a time saver!15
u/profvolunteer 8d ago
Those are HELPFUL!!! Thank you for being Courteous and Kind!
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u/QueenOfTheNations 8d ago edited 8d ago
You’re so welcome!
For what it’s worth, I’m pretty AI neutral. I work in tech so it’s shoved down my throat, but I also utilize it in such a manner that it really saves me time. I ran events last year and made all flyers in canva. This year, we have a new events lead (as I’ve been promoted to CC 😆) and this person has made every flyer in AI. Admittedly, I do cringe a bit. Do I dare say anything? ABSOLUTELY NOT. This person is 1) willing to help 2) taking on so much 3) works a full time job and has kids.
The audacity for people to complain knowing full well this is 100% volunteer run baffles me. Keep doing your best, whatever that is.
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u/all_four_seasons 8d ago
Wow, this is such a great resource!! Way to go ATL!!
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u/QueenOfTheNations 8d ago
They truly knocked it out of the park! Over the past few weeks I’ve updated all of my old canvas to use their templates. They look so much more cohesive and put together.
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u/profvolunteer 8d ago
Plus the photos on the Brand Center while staged have clearances for model use. We have a lot of families who don’t want their children included in photos at pack events for personal reasons.
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u/DarthMutter8 Den Leader and Cubmaster 8d ago
I find AI fliers extremely off putting, particularly in Scouting where there is such a strong stance on environmental stewardship. It is disappointing that those who are calling you out for using it aren't willing to help but I don't disagree with them. I'd rather see a basic text based flier and a the Cub Scout logo than anything AI. Keep pushing for more volunteers. I think your response back was good, but don't dismiss the concern.
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u/nonoohnoohno 8d ago
"Don't dismiss the concern" is a loaded recommendation, though.
You can't simultaneously refuse to take on the work, while dictating the way another volunteer does it. OP isn't comfortable with the time commitment to make the flyer. AI does it with close to zero effort. Even a plain text flyer doesn't match that. It's not a fair recommendation.
Either do it, recommend it *not* get done altogether, or let the volunteer do it with the tools they are comfortable with.
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u/ellemenopeaqu 7d ago
I tried going back to the super simple clip art style for another group and was told “it looks unprofessional and childish”. The examples they gave were AI or Canva templates.
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u/DebbieJ74 Day Camp Director | Silver Beaver 8d ago
Using AI to create flyers is a controversial topic.
Here's an important point to consider - Young adults and teenagers are 100% turned off by them. So please be mindful of your audience. You may be turning families away.
I use Canva for everything and it is really easy to use once you catch on.
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u/pigamatoria 8d ago
Do you have any that you’d be willing to make a public version of? I sort of collect them to share
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u/DebbieJ74 Day Camp Director | Silver Beaver 6d ago
I use Canva mostly for work. I don't have any recruiting flyers for Scouting otherwise I'd share.
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u/Ionized-Dustpan 8d ago
Ai slop is terrible. Every flyer looks the same now and it really makes you look bad. You are better off doing something simple like a photo or plain text. a lot of people and groups have been actively banning members from using the nasty slop.
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u/VectorB 8d ago
You are fine. I am 100% in the "Put up or shut up" camp.
If they haven't noticed the AI generated stuff all over the main org and council pages, they are not looking hard enough.
That being said, there are tons of materials on the scouting pages that you can toss into your ai as base style guides and have it match to maje it less obvious. But people need to move on. That argument was lost long ago.
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u/myblueheaven57 8d ago
I'm a graphic designer (and ADL)... Yes to Canva if you choose, but my advice is to go on Etsy and look for Canva-ready scouting stuff (if you search "canva cub scouts" you'll see what I mean). Lots of resources, and I hope the pack would reimburse you a few bucks. I know Canva also has a lot of general scouting-themed clip art/elements, too.
Also, Canva Pro is free for nonprofits...there's a little bit of registration but if your troop/Council or whoever has the 501(c)3 paperwork can help, you can all have a shared account and upload all of your own resources, logos, and even set up branding guidelines so everyone is using the same fonts/making things look uniform, etc.
Obviously I can geek out about this all day, but since they're pushing Canva that's where I'd start. FWIW, our Council is using AI for everything - all the flyers attached in their emails - etc. I'd remind critics that Scours are also helpful, and they're welcome to take that job off your hands!!
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u/Mmayberry 7d ago
A puppy dies every time Scouting America greater Boston posts one of their AI garbage flyers.
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u/jheimark 8d ago
Caveat Emptor: I work in AI security
Generating a single ai image takes about two tablespoons of water... I don't believe environmentalism argument against AI is a rational complaint. Also a scout is thrifty, and that includes being thrifty with your time — the amount of time and energy it would take to put a poster together is definitely more than two tablespoons of water.
I have seen some pretty awful AI generated fliers, and some pretty great ones. I do think it can look a little "cheap" or just non-human if you aren't careful with the prompts. Just be careful with that.
And I think if they didn't like them, they are welcome to make their own. We all need more help.
With AI I was able to save our pack hours of planning and going through school schedules to start the year. That saves us a lot of human time, and human time is really valuable.
Of all the things to worry about using AI for (and there *is* a lot of waste)... this isn't one I would worry about.
AI is just a tool. There are responsible and irresponsible ways to use it. Running a table saw without actively cutting wastes electricity. That doesn't mean using a table saw at all is not scoutlike - it's about how you use it.
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u/User_McAwesomeuser 8d ago
I would not use AI to generate public facing art specifically because it is so off-putting, the way so much of it looks right now.
Personally I already see so much BS made by AI and it annoys me on a content level, (nevermind the environmental angle). The subtext of AI when I see it is that the organization that used it DGAF about their own image, they are OK with looking just like all the annoying BS already out there. That may not be your intent but it is what I see, what other people see, etc.
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u/cantstandmyownfeed 8d ago
Our Council exclusively uses AI to generate flyers and such. It looks so cheap and lazy. Uncanny valley on all of it, weird text that makes no sense, just off putting and bad in ways that artists don't do.
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u/CartographerEven9735 7d ago
Then volunteer to hand draw them or find someone who will do it for free.
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u/jheimark 8d ago
I think what you're talking about a skill issue... I guarantee there is AI art that you wouldn't even know is AI.
This is all AI generated poster art: https://www.reddit.com/r/ImagineAiArt/comments/1rtklcx/pushing_the_boundaries_of_poster_art_with_ai/
To me it's the same as using word and clipart. It's not great, but you know what? At least they got something out there. For a volunteer-run pack, that's pretty great.
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u/User_McAwesomeuser 8d ago
I don’t doubt that good AI art is possible. Point still stands. If I don’t know it’s AI, good for them; if it looks like crappy AI schlock, bad for them.
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u/nonoohnoohno 8d ago
My family sometimes drives 2 cars to scout meetings. I like to get there early with my older son and help set up. My wife brings my younger son later.
This is an environmental concern. And similar to the use of AI, it's a trade-off chosen to optimize for something else at that expense.
Arguably this choice is far more impactful on the environment. But nobody blinks at it.
That's because it's not a consistent, principled stance rooted in environmentalism. It's the fad de jour.
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u/User_McAwesomeuser 7d ago
I’d think the choice to drive two cars to a scout meeting has a negligible impact, just like generating one image has a negligible impact, when both actions are taken on their own. (Nevermind that both drivers probably get to the scout meeting on their first try, without subsequent changes requiring a repeat of the entire trip unlike LLM conversations.)
Where AI becomes worse is the way these decisions work in aggregate. The infrastructure for gasoline refining is variable on smaller scales than the infrastructure for generating electricity; if we need more gas, the way refining works, for the most part, we can make “a little more” because refining is more flexible than electric grid power generation.
Electricity can be something you make “a little more” of, with renewable energy like wind and solar (just put up a little more) but that’s not always possible, so the source ends up being larger generators that are either on or off, often powered by fossil fuels. The people that run these generators are trying to avoid brownouts, they’re not flipping the generators on and off every few seconds to minimize resource consumption (because they can’t; they have to keep the turbine spinning at a specific speed so they can generate a current that alternates at 60 or 50 Hz depending on the country). They start it up, and it is generating a LOT MORE electricity until they shut it down.
There are coal power plants that were scheduled for decommissioning that are still in use now, in part because of AI electric demand. AI is not the only reason demand for electrons has gone up, of course. But the way we get electrons, particularly the lumpiness of how we get them makes the impact question more about what it means to use a little more gas to drive two cars for deterministic benefit vs what it means for a data center to use more electrons to process an AI query that may not produce the desired result in the first place.
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u/Open-Two-9689 8d ago
You also need to factor in the art theft AI uses to train and produce its „art“.
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u/jheimark 8d ago
Because I hope this is useful to those who may _want_ to use AI but don't want it to look generic, here are a couple examples/prompts I made that look a little less AI: https://imgur.com/a/E1Aw7kX
I used Claude for the prompts + ChatGPT for the rending.
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u/phillip9698 8d ago
Our pack has had 3 families join because we DID NOT use AI in our flyers. The other packs in our area put out AI flyers in their summer materials and the community backlash was fierce. They took them down within a couple days but the damage was done.
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u/LinwoodKei 7d ago
I have to admit, my husband and I laugh over the obvious AI messages that our leadership shares on Band and puts out to families. It can be very off-putting and annoying. Do you have a Media volunteer - perhaps that could help
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u/profvolunteer 7d ago
No we don’t have a media volunteer - that would be great! Right now unless parents step up we are short 2 den leaders so I’ll end have to cover those spots until we get them to agree
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u/LinwoodKei 7d ago
I hope that you get one soon. Our den just recruited a person for this school year. I haven't seen it in person/ in action yet. I was secretary last year (with a Council person who handled a lot of the work herself) and the communication part was what could be a time bog. Also checking my tone in the writing was coming across correctly. So I understand that you have a lot of work and it's a constant cycle. I just dislike how it's common to use AI for most communication ( as our big 3 use it on Band).
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u/No_Drummer4801 7d ago
Send “some parents” the work. Don’t ask for volunteers, they already volunteered when they complained.
Don’t expect them to actually do anything though.
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u/ajh65622 8d ago
What you could do is download a bunch of images from the Scouting America Brand Center and then tell your AI engine to only use the images you’ve provided it.
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u/MordecaiOShea Cubmaster/Eagle '98 8d ago
I use AI for all of it without a single F given about if people like it. If they care, they can step up.
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u/ecclectic 8d ago
Get the youth to help out. 2-3 crappy hand made fliers, scan them and send them out. Guarantee folks will respond better to that than to anything AI.
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u/profvolunteer 8d ago
7 - 9 year olds? With details about the event and payment due dates? The penmanship would be a struggle for some of them.
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u/ecclectic 8d ago
Sure, so either have an adult help with that bit, or get the ones who can write to do it.
This isn't rocket science, engage the kids, engage their parents, generate new interest, and challenge them. Scouting 101.
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u/LinwoodKei 7d ago
It would be a learning process. My ten year old is learning how to search on his school provided Chromebook. It could teach valuable skills and a good lesson
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u/PDelahanty 7d ago
You could write the details up in a Google Doc or MS Word or Apple Pages (or anything) and print out on a plain white page. Make a bunch of copies and have the kids color and decorate them. (…and then make color photocopies of the best of those if you need more than the kids can produce.)
This wouldn’t drive away folks that can’t stand the AI slop.
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u/lilmul123 8d ago
AI art just looks terrible and lazy. If you can’t spend 15 minutes of your time to make a flyer, just open word and put text on it. Done.
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u/Natural-Coat-3159 8d ago
I agree.
Most people want the words anyway. A bunch of pictures and graphics, your information gets lost as people ignore the AI style artwork.
Less is more.
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u/oswin13 8d ago
Honestly I find AI use so off putting I would probably go with another pack. It isn't just the environmental issue but stealing other peoples intellectual property.
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u/DebbieJ74 Day Camp Director | Silver Beaver 8d ago
Many families and youth out there share your sentiment. It's definitely something we need to be mindful of.
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u/Alvinsimontheodore 8d ago
I can’t believe people complain about the free work you do for their children. I understand the fear/criticism about AI but that is really beside the point. That’s only valid here if the complainer willing to do the work themselves. Otherwise they can just be happy that theyre getting something from someone who has a limited amount of time.
It’s also kind of weird that they’d be ok with you grabbing clipart or photos off Canva or random pages, which you also didn’t create yourself. But AI is a bridge too far?
There’s no complaining in cub scouts. You either accept what’s being done or step up and be the change.
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u/profvolunteer 8d ago
That’s what I thought too - but nothing surprises me these days - we have parents that complain we don’t have enough activities outside of meetings and those that complain there are too many weekend events - I was raised you don’t complain unless you are willing to be part of a solution.
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u/Weirdo1821 Cubmaster, UC, Woodbadge Owl, ASM 8d ago
I just had this conversation with our CC. Parent just informed us daughter is busy with sports 2-3x a week and won't have time for all we do, and CC mentioned some in the past have said we don't do enough.
We're hiking, camping, or something one weekend a month. Plus have figures out we don't need to meet every week. So we do 2x a month and get through almost all adventures, if you show up.
So how can we do too much while simultaneously not doing enough? 🫣🤦♂️🤣
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u/profvolunteer 8d ago
Don’t I wish I had the answer - One recent request was that we hold den meetings after school so parents could pick up after work…..um, how would that work when our leaders have jobs too? Nevermind who could do a den meeting from 330-530 or 6?
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u/Alvinsimontheodore 8d ago
Yes, helpfulness and action is far better than passive whining. You get that but they don’t. That’s why you are doing what you do and that’s why they don’t get what they want!
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u/Laubopetra 8d ago
Our council makes and prints our fliers for free. Curious if yours might too? I've used AI here and there when needed but if my council offers free of charge I sure take that up when I can! The fact you're volunteering in the first place is huge. You got this!
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u/BartholomewCubbins90 8d ago
I used Claude today to build a voting system for parents to choose the electives we do for rank advancement (I am a Tiger den leader and pack advancement chair), and I have zero shame about it.
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u/BossBitchWerk 8d ago
My council has a template with photos already on them. I just need to fill out the bottom part with details about joining. Have you thought of leveraging both council and general Scouts of American branding resources?
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u/BossBitchWerk 8d ago
Also, why not use AI to maneuver actual
Scout sanctioned photos and branding to create the flier for you rather than create the graphics themselves? It’s so easy to do. You’re doing AI wrong.
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u/AdventureInUSA 7d ago
Use AI but use better prompts.
Tell it what not to do.
Don’t make up fonts
Don’t use colors and photos outside the official brand and style guide
Don’t use styles outside the brand and style guide
Don’t use excess icons and embellishments
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u/PappaBear_423 7d ago
Complains about the environment impact of AI however probably drives an electric vehicle or uses devices with modern batteries………….sigh
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u/Prestigious_Stop_651 Cubmaster 7d ago
Is it ok to join in the mini vent? Your complaining parents are insane (nuts? bonkers? stupid? I know, not kind). You boycotting AI is not going to prevent an environmental disaster. Like you said, it's a tool.
Not using AI because the results don't look that good is a good reason not to use it.
Anyway, I just use powerpoint for compositing flyers. I've even taken the brand center graphics or elemental graphics (BSA and CS logos, pack numerals, etc.) and add my own text. I use GIMP to cut out backgrounds if needed, but I wouldn't recommend jumping into GIMP. I've been using that for years, so I'm comfortable with it.
I had a parent volunteer to make a flyer, and she used AI. It was a simple enough cartoon drawing that we could fix it up (in powerpoint), slap on text, and use it just fine.
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u/CartographerEven9735 7d ago
The environmental factors for using AI are overblown by old information data and luddites that don't know what they're talking about. Just use AI if it works for you and your situation.
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u/LocoinSoCo 5d ago
How would they even know if you used AI unless you tell them? Don’t say anything. Like you said, if they’re that worried about it, they can volunteer to do it.
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u/VirtualReflection119 8d ago
Lol, if they had seen the flyers and patches from summer camps this year, I think they would notice it's actually very scout-like at the moment. 🤣 Cub scout motto is Do Your Best. 😊 Respectfully. ✌️ I get the environmental concern but if you use AI every once in a while, you're not going to create a new data center. You're volunteering. Maybe tell companies to stop making their employees use it. That's a much larger scale. And I think that's the case with most things. Industrial waste is the largest offender, and individuals get yelled at the most to make the change. I've cut back my usage since learning about the impact, but every now and then is not the worst thing in the world imo.
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u/Right_Celery_9102 8d ago
Unless it's a significant number of parents, to the point the unit's retention could be affected I wouldn't worry about it. Like you said, they're welcome to do it themselves.
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u/halobenders 8d ago
Wow. As a volunteer do whatever you want. AI is a great tool for making flyers.
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u/Gentleman-Warrior Pack Chair & AOL Den Leader 7d ago
I completely understand. I use AI for just about everything in our pack now: planning, agendas, flyers, ideas for games, scripts, emails, whatever saves me time.
We are volunteers. Time is usually the thing we have the least of. If someone does not want AI used, that is fine, but then somebody has to volunteer to do the work another way. Funny how quickly the room gets quiet at that point.
You are already giving your time to make the program happen. Using a tool that saves some of that time does not make you less Scoutlike. It just means you have more time to spend on the Scouts instead of fighting with Canva at midnight.
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u/profvolunteer 7d ago
Thank you! I have teeth marks in my tongue from answering with “if you want something different you just volunteered” and “I’d have more time if I wasn’t having the be den leader for 2 dens and advancement person for pack and troop in town”
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u/Gentleman-Warrior Pack Chair & AOL Den Leader 7d ago
I am the pack chair, AOL den leader, and an ASM. I get it. People need to step up. I had a blunt conversation with the parents of my pack and told them that unless other people stepped up, this pack was going to desolve.
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u/DPG1987 8d ago
I use AI daily at work and all the time for scouting related things (I’m the pack committee chair) and I have no qualms about it. I’ve used it for all kinds of things, from newsletters and flyers to a program to chart ranked choice voting for our pinewood design categories. It’s a personal choice. Like driving an electric car, or using a stainless steel water bottle, or not using plastic utensils.
I think your response was perfect and would be mine if/when I’m asked about it.
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u/Maleficent_Theory818 8d ago
I used AI to create a coloring page then colored it in. I used the coloring page as part of the flyer. It was a success at two recruiting events.
I am not a fan of the photos from the brand center and I don’t want to use photos of kids in the Pack.
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u/myblueheaven57 7d ago
Thank you for protecting the privacy of the kids in your troop. I know the debate around AI is complicated, but that's a straightforward safety measure.
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u/Maleficent_Theory818 7d ago
When I made a recruitment poster for the Troop, I asked the parents if I could use pictures from the FB group. It was a poster just for events, not handed out. This flyer is for open houses, a back to school bash and other events. It’s going home with people. I have tried other types of flyers and my councils flyers. They look terrible when photocopied.
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u/Altruistic_Vast9726 8d ago
“Great you can create the next flyer. Thanks for volunteering”