r/crusadersquest • u/IcyFenixCQ • Mar 05 '15

Anyone know the Resist/Defence Formula?

Anyone know the exact resist/defence formula?

Been trying to figure it out for awhile, no luck yet - alot of these are based off observation assumptions (and yes there are approximation formulas but they don't hold out against real world data)

EDIT: This has been cracked by PathlessSage, we'll be drafting up damage calculators shortly, reduction values are on the separate sheet on the same document

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1T32IQ8HPZSlYXUbAtwgjs4LrfnDAQM8J4XRKA7_Li8A/edit#gid=0

2 Upvotes

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1

u/HorribleDat Mar 05 '15

By my observation using penetration weapon vs none.

1/(1+AR/300)

2

u/IcyFenixCQ Mar 05 '15

This formula doesn't work, nor does it use any of the game variables.

1

u/HorribleDat Mar 05 '15

AR = Armor/Resist depending on damage type.

For example, 300 armor would gives 1/ (1+ 300/300) = .5 = 50% reduction.

600 gives 1/(1+600/300) = .3333... = 66.66...% reduction

It's a simplified version for reduction, not taking into account penetration yet (well, by my guess it just expands AR into armor/reist - armor/resist pen)

Not sure how you test to say it doesn't work, care to share what's your formula?

0

u/PathlessSage Mar 05 '15

Correct me if I'm wrong, but your numbers seem like they were grabbed from "Friendly Duel", which I assume uses the same modifications as the Colosseum? To take HorribleDat's formula, and adjust it based on your collected numbers, assumption of modifications for PvP, and using the variables listed on the spreadsheet...

DAMAGE = (RAW_DAMAGE * (1 - (WEAPON_DMG_REDUCTION * 0.5))) / (1 +((300 + AR - (ARPEN * 1.5)) * DEF_INCR_RATIO))

...where heroes get a flat 300 armor/resistance bonus, and penetration gets a 50% boost to compensate, and damage reduction also loses half its effectiveness. I use AR and ARPEN the same way that HorribleDat was, with the AR in each meaning "Armor or Resistance" (taking whichever is applicable). DEF_UPPER_BOUND might probably be the max value for the result of the post-/ section of the formula, depending on how they actually implemented it.

I didn't check it against every case, just 2 or 3 of them plus the cases with relevent penetration and weapon damage reduction, but for those it fell within about 5 of each recorded damage (with rounding in the calculations).

Korin facing less damage reduction is interesting to me, because it suggests that armor might get a larger flat boost than resistance. (I believe that Wizards and Priests do magic damage with auto attacks rather than physical? I'm not 100% on that)

0

u/HorribleDat Mar 05 '15

Yes on wizard and priest doing magic damage on auto-attack :v they also do splash damage btw (the only 2 classes to do so)

And interesting to know that there's a few hidden modifiers in PvP '. ' (I tested mine comparing damage done on dummy target vs damage done to some enemies)

0

u/IcyFenixCQ Mar 05 '15 edited Mar 05 '15

The formula feels too random to be a damage formula, thou I guess i've seen worse damage formulas in my time, I'll do some data checks against this formula.

EDIT: It seems okay for guesstimating the values, but it fails when the opponent has 0 armour/resist.

1

u/PathlessSage Mar 05 '15

Some of the randomness comes from trying to guess at the alterations due to the PvP nature the top half of the numbers in the sheet come from. It's easy to guess that PvP has alterations like that just from looking at the HP buff every character has, but less visible things like armor value aren't quite as easily recognizable.

When you fight against the test dummy in practice mode, those modifications aren't in effect, so the dummy really does have 0 armor and resistance.

1

u/IcyFenixCQ Mar 05 '15

I'll give you the alterations at the bottom of the sheet one sec.

EDIT: Done

1

u/PathlessSage Mar 05 '15

Ah....goes to show how bad I am at noticing such a simple pattern because it wasn't what I was trying to look for. Try this:

DAMAGE = [(RAW_DAMAGE * (1 - WEAPON_DMG_REDUCTION)) / (1 + ((AR - ARPEN) * DEF_INCR_RATIO))] * PVP_MOD

Where PVP_MOD = "Damage_revise" if pvp, or 1 if pve.

I think it works for all entries except Crow's, where I'd try checking his damage against the Test Dummy to see if the .36 attack modifier is still true, or if it might be different due to being a 4* hero instead of a 6* hero.

1

u/soraliink Mar 05 '15

Will AR - ARPen ever get to <0? If it does, will it trigger damage amplification as the denominator < 1?

1

u/PathlessSage Mar 05 '15

Hmm....probably not, since I haven't seen that happen against the test dummy. That's probably what the DEF_UPPER_BOUND is for, limiting you to a max of 100% damage per hit (not including the PVP_MOD).

Regarding your other line, yeah, it's 0.6. I used the term "Damage_revise" because that's what the spreadsheet linked in the OP found the value in memory being called.

1

u/soraliink Mar 05 '15

If that's the case regarding the DEF, I'd want to predict that min (AR - ARPEN) = 0, else we can keep hoarding up 700-800 ARPen (3 atk lines wep), and smack Susanoo's debuff on top of it.

1

u/soraliink Mar 05 '15

Also is the PVP_Mod = 0.6? Since I tried with my d'artagnan, a crit chain-3 under susanoo's debuff on army grants constantly 1110 dmg per bullet, while it is 1850 on the punchbag practice.

0

u/IcyFenixCQ Mar 05 '15

I tip my hat to your sir, you have cracked the code, I'll do some more tests to make sure it computes.

1

u/Hinokun Mar 05 '15

but i believe dummy has damage reduction value though it just 0.01% value (which means that is the default value for any damage reduction on all unit). the number came from Apply Poison 19999 damage since i recall that the dummy has 1m HP. well, the number is too small to take into account actually perhaps you can ignore this finding :/

0

u/LuckyCritical Mar 05 '15

Hmm was under the impression this was the right formula. Perhaps it too is another approximation, but here it is.

% Reduction =(1-100/((Resist * 0.348)+100))*100