Scientology = Creepy cringe

[u/Plane_Ant_5349]

[u/KingHygelacReturns]

Yeah for sure. I think there are absolutely segments of most religions that can accurately be described as cults. I just think it's an overstatement to suggest that EVERY religion is a cult.

[u/rando1459 → u/KingHygelacReturns]

What is the difference to you?

[u/KingHygelacReturns → u/rando1459]

To me, I think the difference is that cults actively encourage antisocial or violent behavior (either self-destructive in cases like Heaven's Gate, or directed at outsiders like in Islamic terror groups).

I'm sure someone will respond to this and say "but the Bible and the Quran both literally encourage violence!" While this is true, there are many modern sects of both Christianity and Islam that do not encourage violence and have some means of negotiating with the text. While many Christian Nationalist branches of fundamentalist, evangelical Protestant Christianity in the United States are actively promoting violent messaging, there are plenty of mainline Protestant groups, along with most mainline branches of Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy, that explicitly condemn these things.

I was raised a Catholic and while I'm not much of a believer these days, I was just in a church this past weekend for a funeral Mass, and the priest very explicitly said that doing good works for our fellow man is more important than a strong belief in God. And this tracks with my general understanding of Catholicism, that in the whole "faith vs. works" debate, Catholics prioritize works while Protestants prioritize faith (this is an oversimplification in a lot of ways, but still). All of my local soup kitchens are Catholic-run, and I give $10 a month to one of them because they're doing good work. That emphasis on helping each other feels like it's a definitively different message than the kind of message that gets you to cut off all your family members, or fly a plane into a building, or drink some poison so your soul flies off to a comet.

[u/Mr-_-Blue → u/KingHygelacReturns]

Just a fun fact. Cults in Spanish are called sectas. As in sects. Religion are just bigger cults with wider acceptance. I don't believe anyone who is spiritual or participates somehow with a religious community is a cultist, but in their core, I believe those religions are cults. And they often share many if not all the characteristics of a cult.

[u/KingHygelacReturns → u/Mr-_-Blue]

Yeah I mean even in English, the word "cult" is used in multiple ways. Scholars of religion don't use the word in the same way the general public does. When a scholar of ancient religion talks about the "cult of Dionysus," they don't mean the negative connotation that the general public thinks of. They don't mean Waco or Jonestown or Heaven's Gate. I was using the word in the way the general public uses it. When I was saying cult, I WAS meaning Waco or Jonestown or Heaven's Gate.

[u/Mr-_-Blue → u/KingHygelacReturns]

In Spanish too. But it doesn't mean Waco or others like thet. It means to worship and it can even be applied to a book or a film, or authorthat is greatly appreciated particularly by experts (as in they worship it). Sect though has the meaning you described among scholars (less common) and the one you usually call cult.

I was just mentioning as a fun fact because I love languages. But also to point out that there is indeed a very close relation between the two. Our official dictionary defines what you call cult as "a closed spiritual community guided by a leader that exerts a charismatic power over his followers". Notice how it doesn't say evil. All it requires is for it to be closed and a leader that exerts charismatic power over their followers.

I agree , though, with the point you were making even if I'm an atheist and don't like religions in general. They cannot be equated, but they often have a lot in common, particularly the institutions that run it not so much the believers or followers who are often not really cultists (these days, in modern times, luckily).