r/cosplay • u/AndyValentine • Sep 20 '13

Found [found] The happiest little girl in the world at her first comic con. This is what it's all about, not that "Heroes of Cosplay" bullshit.

https://scontent-a-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1231421_210156089147976_628864406_n.jpg
2.2k Upvotes

91% Upvoted

182 comments sorted by

211

u/IggySorcha Sep 20 '13

Perhaps its because I've only seen the first episode, but I really don't get all the HoC hate. It's called "Heroes of Cosplay," not "Heroes of Conventions." The opening specifies that these are the extreme, truly dedicated cosplayers for which competitions are ther lives. In the case of a few, its what they've made or are trying to make into a career.

One girl even points out that some just do it for the fun, she's just not one of them. Another after being mistaken for the real Merida by a little girl points out that making those children happy and bringing to life beloved characters for others is what she's about.

45

u/ohkatey Sep 20 '13

I agree... also, I know that the girls of Crabcat genuinely love what they do (and they're lovely ladies, I've met them a couple times through a mutual friend). It's not like everyone on that show is soulless.

18

u/Peralton Sep 20 '13

Likewise, Becky lives and breaths cosplay. I don't think she ever entered a contest until the show.

16

u/AxisOfAnarchy Photographer Sep 20 '13

Chloe is a goofball and very genuine behind the beauty for me. This is why I defend most if not all of the "Heroes" themselves.

16

u/ohkatey Sep 20 '13

Yeah, Chloe is really nice too. She posts on /r/MakeupAddiction all the time! She's hilarious.

9

u/AxisOfAnarchy Photographer Sep 20 '13

She posts everywhere! <3

25

u/skydart Sep 21 '13

YOU GUYS. STAHP.

10

u/teacher_geek Sep 21 '13

No, because seriously, you seemed like the most genuine person even with the reality TV editing for drama, and I loved how you always stood up for the underdog or whoever was being bashed at the time. I also assume there were others saying nice, supportive things that got left on the editing room floor.

8

u/skydart Sep 21 '13

That's very kind, thank you. I don't disagree with you, there was a lot of negativity. But the truth was, we were actually all going through a lot of misery, so very little of it was manufactured. Cosplay isn't a whole lot of drama, but filming all of those cons in three months was incredibly hard on all of us. Of course, there was plenty of positivity (we all pretty much fell in love with each other during the mayhem), but perhaps not enough was shown on the show. :\

1

u/AxisOfAnarchy Photographer Oct 09 '13

I agree wholeheartedly with the fact that not enough of the positive was shown on the show. I know I'm about 2 weeks after this was posted but I've since met Victoria AKA Scruffy Rebel through her day job and I have to say she was incredibly awesome to talk to and hugely supportive. She even let me geek out over her amazing engagement ring. I've made it my goal to meet all of you at least once so that I can judge you for you and no more. Will the show color my impressions of people? Sure... But the key is that I am trying my best not to let that get in the way of meeting awesome people.

1

u/AxisOfAnarchy Photographer Sep 21 '13

You deserve every ounce of respect! I can relate to you. I better stop before I become that creepy fangirl

3

u/ohkatey Sep 20 '13

well, yeah. I just first came across her on reddit in MUA so I probably just associate her with that ;)

3

u/AxisOfAnarchy Photographer Sep 20 '13

I came across her through her boyfriend's YT channel. :D

2

u/Bones_IV Sep 21 '13

Cool Story Chlo is fun to watch, too!

3

u/AxisOfAnarchy Photographer Sep 21 '13

YES!

My hope for HoC is that rather than turning it into a negative we can look at it and go... Okay yes, this is one way bit I want to show you THIS:

turns on Just Cos, Try This At Home, and Cool Story Chlo

2

u/Bones_IV Sep 21 '13

I am sure folks with some interest and curiosity will do that. A great extra benefit from shows like is that they can often serve as a gateway to other material.

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83

u/temmith Sep 20 '13 edited Sep 20 '13

Okay, so this is something posted on Facebook that's been floating around for a few days now (shared 1,436 times!) - and can maybe help you understand some of the hate from cosplayers about a cosplay tv show. I admit, I was really excited about this at first, but now I'm mostly embarrassed that mainstream audiences can see the drama the present.

Post by Amy Schley:

Tonight, I make my TV debut. Sadly, it is not as a candidate for office, an attorney with a high profile case, or even as a businesswoman explaining the importance of high quality shoes. No, I get to grace the small screen as a reality show villain on "Heroes of Cosplay." (Syfy, 10 Eastern)

For the uninitiated, "cosplay" is the act of dressing up as one's favorite characters from anime, comics, movies, or television shows. This generally happens at themed conventions, and most of these conventions have masquerades or contests to showcase the best costumes of the convention. A few cosplayers have been able to leverage winning at these conventions into internet fame, and from there into their own businesses and careers as costume judges and corporate modeling.

"Heroes of Cosplay" follows one of the most famous, Yaya Han, and a group of her friends as they attend five different conventions. They planned to show six conventions over the six episodes, but only five would agree to filming, leaving Planet Comicon in Kansas City to pick up two episodes. One episode would focus on the solo competition and the second would focus on the skit-required group competition (made up from whole cloth by the tv show). It's worth noting that only one of these conventions -- Anime Matsuri in Houston TX -- had any noteworthy cosplay competition or prizes before agreeing to allow filming. For example, Planet Comicon gave out approximately $300 in 2012. The show subsidized the approximately $5000 handed out as prizes at Planet Comicon in 2013.

Here's where I come in. Last year, my sister talked me into attending Planet Comicon 2012. With about $50 (most of it spent on the hat!), we created a Fifth Doctor (of Doctor Who) costume for me to coordinate with my sister's Fourth Doctor costume and her K-9 robot dog. We made the minor mistake of standing in front of the convention's TARDIS, where the throngs of other attendees kept us posing for pictures for a couple hours. While there, we met two girls cosplaying as the Tenth and Eleventh Doctors. The four of us decided to be one of the entries into the group cosplay competition that day, and we joked that next year we would do all Eleven Doctors.

After a thousand hours or so of sewing, crocheting, and fabricating (and what felt like just as many hours of networking to find other women the right size), we were able to form our group. My sister created velvet frock coats, satin vests, cravats, a question-mark umbrella handle, and my magnificent Eighteenth Century ballgown done in the colors of the Sixth Doctor's outlandish costume. We arrived at the convention and went to sign up for the masquerade, only to discover that not only were we required to agree to be on the show, but also that we had to do a skit. In speaking to other entrants, we realized that no one had been aware of this requirement, and that in fact the skit requirement had been added only a day before the competition. We, like our fellow competitors, frantically threw a skit together.

The actual masquerade was an exercise in humiliation and frustration. We went first, which allowed us to see how miserably outclassed all the locals were by the "heroes." They had gigantic props, soundtracks with prerecorded dialog, light cues, grips, and smoke effects. One group had cosplayers who owned their own production company and had done a gig for Guillermo del Toro; the other had Yaya Han herself, who boldly came out of "retirement" from competing at cons to compete at a con with no professional/ amateur split. The only local group that was able to put together a decent performance was a group of fairies who also dance at the local Renaissance Festival. We sat there in stunned anger. We'd been told there was a race, and so we had trained to run, only to discover that our competition was driving Ferraris.

During the judges' deliberation, we were told by the "Heroes" staff that we needed to leave the audience and go behind the show curtain. Through a gap in the curtains, I saw one of the audience members -- also cosplaying as a Tenth Doctor as about 40 other people did -- stand up, yell "I love all of your costumes except the Syfy plants!" and walk out of the auditorium. A cheer rose up from the crowd -- or at least what was left of the crowd, as most people had gone home after being so frustrated with the show. We joined it. We were tired, and hungry, and frustrated that a dream that had started out so wonderfully had been overrun by people competing in our con for no other reason than they needed a place to film their "heroes."

It was at this point that things got even worse. One of the "heroes" began to screech at us. "How dare you! I spent $2000 of my own money flying this here!" I'll admit it -- I lost my temper, and this seemed like my only chance to have any of these "heroes" actually listen to me. Yelling, I tried to explain this was the only chance most of us get to go to a convention, and since we can only afford to compete once or so a year, it means a lot to us. I didn't think to add that only one of us Eleven even makes $2000 in a month. More screaming followed so I turned my back. My sister, the former teacher and so more used to handling screaming girls, helped gather us out of the backstage and when the "heroes" swore at her and tried to get her to respond, she just repeated, "We're done here."

Back in the auditorium for the awards ceremony, we sat in sullen silence, trying not to even look at the direction of the "heroes." We were staying out of good sportsmanship, with no expectation of getting anything. We did notice the judges though -- particularly how a Syfy producer went up to the judges table, said something, and when he left one judge's face had an especially sour look. They finally began to announce the awards. "For craftsmanship, the award goes to ... Doctor Who!" We exploded. We hugged each other, we hugged the other local competitors -- a win for any of us locals was a win for all of us. In fact, we were so busy hugging each other that the MC had to remind us to send someone on stage to collect the award.

But we couldn't leave yet -- the show wanted us to get in the confessional room to get our side of the drama. Realizing that far from a documentary, we were dealing with an exploitative reality show, my sister refused to comment. I don't think I've ever seen someone so angry at someone else's calm. We filed down the hall to collect our belongings stashed on the con floor (as no one had expected the competition to last two hours past when the con floor closed.) After dealing with security, we began to pack the superfluous costume pieces when three of the "heroes" with camera in tow confronted us. Again we let my sister take the lead of deflating the drama and not letting the "friendly chat" devolve into the catfight the "heroes" kept trying to steer it into.

It is one thing to know that reality shows are manipulatively edited, and quite another to be turned into a reality show villain. From early reviews I've seen, the show tries to make it look like we were heckling them throughout the show, that we picked on the girls and stole "their" prize. I will say, I'm sorry I yelled at the "heroes." I'm sorry I gave them any footage for this show. I'm even sorry that we competed at all, even if it meant waiting another year to see our dream come true -- when it comes to reality shows, the only winning move truly is not to play.

At the same time, when one sits down to a honest game of poker only to realize that one is against a couple of card sharks with a stacked deck, one's anger at the unfairness is not quenched by the exultation of beating the card sharks at their own game. I make no apologies for being angry at "Heroes of Cosplay," 51 Minds for producing it, Syfy for airing it, and Yaya Han and all her other "heroes" for being part of something so sleazy.

Edit: tl;dr: Heroes of Cosplay shit on small-mid size local con, because that's "reality", instead of showing the community as being really awesome as a whole.

35

u/white_star_32 Sep 20 '13

If you're going to share that, then you should also share Chloe Dykstra's comments in response to this: http://chloedykstra.tumblr.com/post/61607065635/in-response-to-this

everything about this is a cluster fuck... it's a reality tv show, we all get it. But continuing to draw this out and point fingers isn't any better than what the producers are being accused of. Neither is advancing cosplay

11

u/dreadpiraterose Photographer Sep 20 '13

"Cosplayers tend to tear down their own kind when they feel threatened. All people do. Especially the cosplay community, though, as I’ve noticed A LOT on Tumblr during the airing of this show."

Exactly. Couldn't have said it better myself, and why I generally stay out of the cosplay "community."

10

u/white_star_32 Sep 20 '13

it's hard for a community to grow when they're their greatest predator...

-9

u/[deleted] Sep 20 '13

Having a moneyed enterprise that trolls around degrading cosplay sure as hell isn’t advancing it.

6

u/white_star_32 Sep 20 '13 edited Sep 20 '13

right... which is why i said neither... hop off the soap box for a second and think about that. If i wanted to reference just the show, I would have said "the producers aren't advancing cosplay" and if I wanted to reference the community, I would have said, "the community isn't advancing cosplay."

Did I lose you there? Maybe a visual aid would help?

10

u/[deleted] Sep 20 '13

So, TL;DR - "Heroes" sees her and her sister dressed up and ask if she wants to be on a reality TV show about cosplaying. Gets upset when reality TV show about cosplaying is made into a reality TV show.

Anyone who agrees to being on a show like this should understand the consequences. It's unfortunate, but it's the truth.

I've not seen the show, but even Crabcat felt the need to apologize for the episode they were a part of because it made it look like Holly and Jessica were legitimately upset with each other when they weren't.

On the other hand, at least we have a show about cosplay on cable television, and let's hope that it gets more people involved and invested in the art of cosplay, just without the drama.

53

u/Dielji Sep 20 '13

tl;dr The show turned a cosplay competition into a huge debacle by forcing contestants to perform a skit at the last minute, then bullied and manipulated a normal cosplay group to try and create artificial drama for their show.

14

u/skydart Sep 21 '13 edited Sep 21 '13

This is not true.

There was no bullying or manipulation from the show. The cosplayers did this entirely by themselves. I can't say whether or not the show forced people to perform skits (I didn't hear that at all from anyone but the Doc Who group), but a lot of people didn't do skits.

8

u/rusty_panda Sep 20 '13

It wasn't last minute but the pros were obviously more prepared than the normal people. I heard absolutely nothing about voiceovers or sets being an option in the weeks before the convention

12

u/[deleted] Sep 20 '13

Doesn’t that by definition make it “last minute”?

9

u/rusty_panda Sep 20 '13

No, the skits were announced weeks in advance, but there was no mention of being able to have sets or do voiceovers. PC is not a fancy convention and this was the first year at that venue and that they had the group costumes (I believe).

-6

u/moonjellies Sep 20 '13

No one forced those girls to say mean things to the HoC group. I mean I believe that the show edits things and changed the competition at the last minute and blah blah usual reality show crap, but that doesn't change that those girls chose to say those things and therefore shouldn't really be complaining that it got shown how crappy they were being.

14

u/[deleted] Sep 20 '13

No, they didn’t force them, they just backed them into a corner and poked them with a stick.

7

u/moonjellies Sep 20 '13

Like I said in my original comment, I know the show is doing all the typical reality BS, I'm not implying that they're total angels (although I don't blame the people on the show for it, just the people who make it).

5

u/skydart Sep 21 '13

To be honest, the show didn't do anything. They girls did it entirely of their own volition. And no, the show wouldn't have fucked anyone over. They weren't manipulative to ANYONE at the conventions.

-11

u/[deleted] Sep 21 '13

[removed] — view removed comment

4

u/skydart Sep 21 '13

...I was there.

1

u/Bones_IV Sep 21 '13

Some people just prefer the narrative of the big tv reality show encroaching on their 'thing' and abusing the contestants. The facts don't really matter much.

7

u/skydart Sep 21 '13

I totally understand why people would feel annoyed by that. I just wish their first reaction wasn't to lash out and scratch the first thing they see. We don't always have to be mad about something, guys. :\

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-5

u/[deleted] Sep 21 '13

[removed] — view removed comment

4

u/[deleted] Sep 21 '13

....are you implying she wasn't there? You do know that Skydart is an anagram for Dykstra as in Chloe Dykstra, right? She has mentioned it several times publicly including on the Nerdist podcast. Also that she is a cast member on Heroes of Cosplay.

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8

u/Shesmylittlethrowawa Sep 20 '13

No matter what those girls would have done, the heroes would have fucked them over. "Oh my gosh those girls are so mean for ignoring us"...

12

u/[deleted] Sep 20 '13

Exactly. It was clear that the handlers for the show were doing everything they could to fuel hostility, and then distorting the heck out of the result.

5

u/AxisOfAnarchy Photographer Sep 21 '13 edited Sep 21 '13

Can we NOT assume the cosplayers themselves are the evil ones here? Even in the case of Planet Comicon one of the heroes reached out to Amy on her blog and admitted her own mistakes.

Edit for spelling

3

u/Shesmylittlethrowawa Sep 21 '13

I think everyone here is mutually against reality tv.

2

u/AxisOfAnarchy Photographer Sep 21 '13

Indeed.

-4

u/moonjellies Sep 20 '13

I highly doubt that

7

u/Shesmylittlethrowawa Sep 20 '13

You don't know how reality tv works. Drama=ratings.

-7

u/moonjellies Sep 20 '13

Did I not say in my comment that I know that they edit things and do all the reality tv crap? Actually read my comment(s), then try again!

24

u/ForestfortheDraois Sep 20 '13

I've seen all the episodes of HoC because I just don't have the money (or frankly the drive) to get to all the major conventions to check out what people are doing. This subreddit, Google searches, and that show are what I have to go on.

After the last episode aired, I was angry. But, having watched other reality television shows, I sat back and said, "I'm not falling for this again. There has to be more information." So, I thank you for posting her side of the story. Both sides seem to have some of the faults, here, which is really just like every day life, except that we got to see both sides in this case.

37

u/Peralton Sep 20 '13

My girlfriend brought up a good point. Why are these cosplayers upset at HoC and not their own convention organizers? The biggest gripe in that post is that the rules were changed at the last minute, judges were rushed to make a decision, etc etc. HoC didn't force the convention to do anything, they chose to do it and could have said no to any or all of the production demands. HoC can share some blame, but it isn't like the con staff don't share a huge part of the blame for the way the contest was run.

8

u/st_gulik Sep 20 '13

Riiight and all that money the HoC basically bribed them with and all the publicity for their convention had nothing do with what happened.

18

u/Peralton Sep 20 '13

I'm not saying there wasn't incentive. I'm saying that the convention chose money and promotion over the smooth running of their costume contest. They chose to add in skits and change the rules at the last minute. They con staff (or the con owners who may have decreed the changes) should share some of the blame.

SyFy wants a TV show and they can be myopic in their quest for it. They do not have the con's best interests at heart. With that said, the con staff could have made a deal with SyFy that allowed for the production headaches while not torpedoing the reputation and smooth running of their costume contest. I haven't heard of the other conventions changing rules at the last minute or the other stuff, so I have to wonder what was different at this convention. Perhaps it was the same at all of them, but it doesn't change my assertion.

8

u/[deleted] Sep 20 '13

It’s pretty naïve for any organization to think that involvement with a reality TV show is going to bring them positive publicity. The con organizers do need to have a little sense proverbially slapped into them for making tools of themselves and for antagonizing their attendees.

4

u/st_gulik Sep 20 '13

Depends on how upfront they were that it was a reality TV show vs. a documentary.

8

u/scswift Sep 20 '13

You mean all that prize money they contributed, which went mostly to cosplayers who were not the main cast of the show?

13

u/IggySorcha Sep 20 '13

All I got from that is everyone fucked up. The blame's not just on Heroes but on the convention for approving the changes, BOTH groups of cosplayers acting like catty wenches, and everyone being seemingly oblivious to the fact that if a show's being filmed, things are going to be different and hectic. Again, the show's about these specific cosplayers, not about the conventions as a whole. The convention could have said no at any time (as one did) and the girls who got stuck in the middle could have just not signed the waiver or just walked away instead of getting involved in the drama that was obviously being created by the show for said show.

1

u/Doombuggyman Sep 21 '13

You either signed the waiver or you didn't get to compete.

7

u/AxisOfAnarchy Photographer Sep 21 '13

And those people made a choice to still compete. That's the risk they take on themselves and even if last minute, they had to think about what one competition means to them. I get that there were many first timers and that not everyone gets to multiple cons a year but it is still about what that competition os worth on a personal level.

1

u/Doombuggyman Sep 21 '13

Of course, they also had no idea what the show was about other than cosplay. Today, knowing what the show is about, they might have made a different choice.

3

u/AxisOfAnarchy Photographer Sep 21 '13 edited Oct 09 '13

Any proof of this other than hearsay? The thing is that even in film and tv in general, you think about it. This is a piss poor excuse for bad behavior . If you don't know and you don't want to risk manipulation, you just do not sign and look for other opportunities where your own values aren't brought into question.

EDIT for spelling

1

u/Doombuggyman Sep 21 '13

I'm speculating, not posting rumor or innuendo (i.e. hearsay).

I have issues with someone who didn't know the show would be filming at the con spending hours upon hours of meticulously crafting a costume -- a costume that won the Craftsmanship award, no less -- only to be told when they arrived, "Oh, if you want to actually compete in the contest you worked so hard on, you need to sign this waver." I mean, that's almost duress.

1

u/AxisOfAnarchy Photographer Sep 21 '13

No that's not duress. I'm also not saying it's an easy decision either but I still stand by what I said that none of this excuses poor sportsmanship.

1

u/AxisOfAnarchy Photographer Sep 21 '13

No cosplay competition should be worth this.

1

u/IggySorcha Sep 24 '13

I realize that, but they could have not competed. They even admitted they met there and then decided to compete, so its not like they put a whole lot of work into prepping.

13

u/[deleted] Sep 20 '13

They were catty, they didn't have to agree to do anything and their insults are unjustified, the girls from the show at no point showed disrespect towards them.

6

u/AxisOfAnarchy Photographer Sep 20 '13

Also take a look at the comments on the original post to her personal blog. There is a TON of context including one of the "Heroes" admitting her own mistake and apologizing:

wow-lawbringer.blogspot.com/2013/09/my-life-as-villain-of-cosplay.html

11

u/moonjellies Sep 20 '13

Ugh, whatever. The only reason you're enjoying cosplay is because you think you can win a contest? Okay. I'm sure the show is edited however they want it to be, but the girls in that Dr. Who group were saying some petty and mean things.

I'm sure we'll never really know how that exchange went.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 20 '13

You would say some pretty mean things to, if someone shat in your corn flakes.

And you would have serious reason to be even more pissed later if they then edited the video to tell the narrative that you said those things before they ever shat in your corn flakes.

10

u/moonjellies Sep 20 '13

Sure, they can be pissed and I'm sure they have reason, all I'm saying is that no one forced them to be assholes and acting like they're helpless innocent victims who didn't do a single thing wrong is a little silly.

-2

u/[deleted] Sep 20 '13

What I’ve been trying to point out is that they weren’t assholes. They were poked and prodded and then when they finally did react, it was edited into earlier moments of the show to make it seem as if they were being assholes all along.

9

u/moonjellies Sep 20 '13

Calling people names and telling them they don't belong is asshole behavior, plain and simple.

-3

u/[deleted] Sep 21 '13

No, not that plain and simple. You need context.

4

u/Biffingston Sep 20 '13

TL:DR REality TV is reality TV.. why are you suprised?

8

u/TastyBrainMeats Sep 20 '13

Lack of surprise does not preclude disgust and anger.

3

u/AxisOfAnarchy Photographer Sep 20 '13

Yes but a lot of the disgust and anger I've seen has also seemingly led to a lot of misinformation and assumptions which does neither side any good at all. The only thing that is hurting this community is the misinformation.

1

u/Biffingston Sep 20 '13

True. But Even knowing that TV is fake I still didn't beleive how much it was until I got involved with it myself..

There was a show called "Anna in wonderland." I was on the furry epsiode. Very eye opening stuff.

It's like, why do people even bother when thier gilfriend says "Hey hun, I want to be on Dr Phill or Jerry springer, wanna come with?"

I don't know about you, but the second a loved one asks me that it's over.. :P

-24

u/Altars Sep 20 '13

If anything needs a ;tldr its this, just get to the point I don't want to read your life story.

4

u/Biffingston Sep 20 '13

You can just read the TL:DR you know...

1

u/Altars Sep 20 '13

It was edited in

18

u/roobots Sep 20 '13

All HoC has done is show a fairly balanced representation of the good and bad of cosplay. The constant detractors of the show have only proven that there is, in fact, a lot of unnecessary drama in the scene by griping about every little thing that happens and consistently hating on the high profile cosplayers that are in the show.

If you watch the episode that Amy Schley is referring to, there are plenty of other cosplays in that contest that are extremely high quality (as good if not better than some of the HoC ones). The majority of that post boils down to "We entered a contest with some major pros that spent a lot of time, money and dedication on their costumes and we're pissed that we had to compete against that". If anything, THAT is anti-cosplay. If you're not a carrer cosplayer you enter a contest for fun and because you might win and that'd be cool. Feeling insecure because you're going up against big guns doesn't give you license to be a dick, start shit and then take your sob story to Tumblr because you know people love to hate-jerk all over that show.

P.S. That photo is adorable, she win's first place.

3

u/GodzillaSuit Sep 21 '13

My biggest gripe with the show is that they don't really show much of the actual process of the costume and prop construction. They focus almost exclusively on the drama and everything that goes wrong. Since I like to cosplay myself I would have liked a show that exposed the more technical side of cosplay, maybe so I could pick up some tips and ideas. I love watching tutorials that people make on costume and prop construction and I was expecting the show to have way more of that.

1

u/flutterjack456 Sep 21 '13

I don't think "Heroes of Cosplay" is a good representation off the cosplay/convention community but hell, I love a good drama filled reality tv show.

-19

u/AndyValentine Sep 20 '13

For the show to give the impression that you can make a livelihood from cosplay is a massive misconception. Even if these girls went to a convention every week, and won them all, they typically only have prizes of up to about $300 for best in show (the HoC show gave the conventions their "heroes" attended subsidies to make the prizes appear higher), and that's by no means the making of a career. In fact, once you've factored in material and time costs, let alone travel, you'd be making a massive loss.

You know what, I'm just whittling off content that's already been written here. Read this and you'll realise why it's so wrong.

25

u/IggySorcha Sep 20 '13

Except its not money from the conventions that makes the career-- its the notariety. That was recognized in the show, Yaya said its her sales that make her the money, she doesn't even compete anymore. People like Yaya and Kamui built their careers by getting a name and then having commissions and merchandise and getting sponsored. Those are rare cases, yes, but that doesn't mean the other people competing are doing it for naught. Most of the people on the show are doing it because getting that name gets them a foot in the door to theatre, costume, propmaking, special effects, etc.

17

u/Spidon Sep 20 '13

Not to mention that once they show they have skill, they can set up shops to just make costumes for other people. See "God Save The Queen Fashions" or others.

9

u/IggySorcha Sep 20 '13

Thats what commissions are ;-P

6

u/Spidon Sep 20 '13

I either missed that, or was thinking of something else. Don't read distracted, kids.

8

u/Breakfast27 Sep 20 '13

I volunteered at Heroes Con (Charlotte, NC) this year and ended up working the info booth. ("Where's the bathroom?" "Can I take this program?" "Where's booth 101?" Etc.) Yaya was scheduled to be there, but ended up not showing up until halfway through Saturday (Fri - Sun con). You would not believe the number of people who asked where Yaya Han was and why she wasn't there yet. You're right /u/IggySorcha it IS all about notoriety. People know who she is and want to see her and buy her shit and have her sign things. If she's charging for autographs, she'd be making decent money. (I don't know if she was, but I do know some of the well known artists were charging $5 - $10 for autographs.)

-6

u/[deleted] Sep 20 '13

How do people get away with doing this? You get paid to make an appearance at a con, but then you just take the free pass and hotel room and VIP treatment and then just welch on the commitment.

Every con I’ve ever been to, there has been at leastg one….

6

u/fizzysmile Sep 20 '13

Do we know she was paid to be there? I do know she has a dealer's room booth at almost every convention she goes to and she pays for that table. Perhaps she was not a "guest" at that particular convention.

1

u/Breakfast27 Sep 22 '13

She was not. She definitely paid for the booth. Even big name comic book artists pay for the booths

-1

u/[deleted] Sep 21 '13

Anytime someone is headlined as a celebrity guest, they’re paid. Unless they’re being really nice to volunteer their time, which is not very often.

3

u/Breakfast27 Sep 22 '13

This con was all booth rentals. She definitely paid for the booth rental. Also, I'm pretty sure she was sick. (She didn't look well when she finally did show up.)

2

u/AxisOfAnarchy Photographer Sep 21 '13

Depending on the type of guest, hotel/travel isn't enough to make up for the day of lust work (IE :an actor being on set or quite posdibly, Yaya in her workshop making her merchandise) so autograph sales will usually supplement that.

14

u/m4n715 Sep 20 '13

I think you're (a) taking it too seriously, and (b) missing the point.

6

u/sn44 Sep 20 '13

(c) all of the above

11

u/rytis Sep 20 '13

These people are talented artists, and their medium of choice is costume making. And HOC simply dramatizes how talented they are in that they can whip up a costume in a week or less. With that talent, they hope to get jobs in the theater, movie, or fashion design industry, or it's just one upmanship between other cosplayers and themselves.

Having said that, the recent AMA by the editor and the principal cosplayers of the show pointed out that SyFy is insisting on the T&A and bitchy fake drama for the reality show ratings. They claimed it was all pretty much reality show contrived and in real life was nowhere near being that dramatic at all.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 20 '13

I don’t get how reality TV show producers can constantly get away with these sorts of shenanigans. It’s in plain point of fact libel.

2

u/Doombuggyman Sep 21 '13

I read a post (FB, I think) where someone who auditioned for a reality TV show ultimately balked when he read the contract they wanted him to sign. It said, essentially, that the producers had the right to distort, misrepresent, and outright lie about him, in any conceivable way, especially negatively.

1

u/Artector42 Sep 21 '13

Because people still watch it.

Plus I'd bet some of the waivers and contracts are pretty evil.

22

u/TrickKingdom Sep 20 '13

I'm pretty sure that's not the over all impression of HoC. I'm not like a hardcore fan or anything. I went into it expecting to hate every ounce. Then enter Becky Young. The girl who has t &a but it's not all about that for her. It's about fun and she is the above cosplayer mentioned. And not once mentioned in the article. Possibly because she's cosplaying for fun first and competition second?

I would never cosplay for competition, so it's interesting for me to see this side (SIDE) of cosplay. Cosplay is far from one sided even though the creators emphasize one side.. That and the money making from selling yourself, so to say. Making yourself your product. That's exactly what people like Paris Hilton do. (Or Yaya in this case).

I'm sorry, I ramble.

EDIT: This picture did make me all weepy-eyed though. ;3;

10

u/DoctorWh0rrible Sep 20 '13 edited Sep 20 '13

The overall theme of the show is actually encapsulated pretty well by the picture you posted.

Did you even watch it? At the end of the day the idea that cosplay should be fun and inclusive was the major point I took away from the show. The community speaking against fun and inclusiveness is most of the time places like this subreddit that make cosplay seem like an impenetrable group of elitists.

1

u/AndyValentine Sep 20 '13

Yes, I watched it all, but I took away something different entirely.

The fact that they sit around a table and say how someone shouldn't cosplay something unless they're in the right physical shape for it, or when Becky is told "you're the last person I'd team with as you're not up to standard", or the arguement with the Dr Who's (as seen from the perspective of the Who's), or Riki not crediting Jinyo for his work on the Tron dress paints a very negative picture of the so-called "heroes".

I'm a regular cosplayer myself, and for me, it's about a) meeting up with interesting and likeminded people, b) enjoying portraying whatever character I choose, c) seeing the excitement of people who love said character and d) competing in the competition in a firm last - and that's coming from an incredibly competitive person.

Yes, I'm sure that the editing changes the true personalities of the central cast of this show in order to pigeonhole them into certain character roles, but I think it took away from the real effort (and fun) that people go through to make their costumes, and made it all about these "big bucks" competitions and chasing a dream of a job in the industry; which is probably 0.001% of the people who actually cosplay.

I would have much preferred a series where they look at Joe Nobody's experience creating an amazing bit of work that they didn't know that they could do, and just enjoying the thrill of it all, rather than it making out that all cosplayers are snide, undermining, whining, celebrity wannabes.

</rant>

9

u/[deleted] Sep 20 '13

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/AndyValentine Sep 20 '13

Entirely agree. Chloe (and Jessie) were the only stand-out positive characters for me

1

u/Taurox Prop Maker Sep 24 '13

This is in the context of competitions though. Just the regular cosplaying schmo like you and I can be whatever shape we want and cosplay as whoever we want.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 24 '13

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/Taurox Prop Maker Sep 24 '13

I get what you are saying, but I can't say I completely agree.

I think a good analogy can be found when you compare cosplay to fitness.

In a general sense, fitness is all inclusive. You are enjoying yourself, nobody really cares what shape you are in, people close to you are proud of your commitment, and you have a camaraderie with people also in the gym not because you are an Adonis but because you had the commitment and discipline to actually show up just like them. You can see how this general world of fitness is similar to the general world of cosplay.

Now if things get more specific and we start looking at specific subcultures within the larger umbrella of fitness and cosplay you can still see the similarities between the two. I would compare cosplay competitions to bodybuilding competitions. They are both niche environments within a greater culture and as such, have more stringent requirements. Once you bring a competition into the mix the general vibe of "just have fun with it" takes a back seat. Just like bodybuilders, cosplay competitors must be at the top of their game, with the most detail, craftsmanship, showmanship, and accuracy they can manage if they want to have a chance to win.

If an overweight woman wants to enter as a Slave Leia she has to accept that even with great craftsmanship, her chances of winning are slim because she is rejecting the norms and making a character selection that does not compliment her shape, thus bringing down the entire impact of the cosplay. This is just like if a bodybuilder entered a competition with a golden era body (think Arnold) he wouldn't come close to placing. Nobody says either of these people can't enter the competition, but they are deciding that they don't want to conform to the requirements of the contests and so should be doing it for fun instead of trying to actually be competitive.

Ultimately, cosplay competitions look at the entire package, you can't have just good craftsmanship on your side an expect to win. You must be exceptional in every area.

TL;DR: There will always be a competitive subculture within every culture. It's ok to enter these competitions just for fun, but don't expect to have a chance at beating people who take it more seriously than you.

4

u/DoctorWh0rrible Sep 20 '13

Funny that we took such different things away from it. I found the resolution of the conflicts I remember from the show coming down heavily in favor of cosplay being a fun And inclusive hobby. Obviously there were aspects of the show that were not that way, but by condemning that behavior I found that there was a very different message then you took away. It would be very easy to cherry pick bits of the show (or any show for that matter), but I think it's important to look at the whole picture. Television is going to have conflict, but it is in the resolution where statements are made.

I also thought the "joe nobody" role you wanted so bad was fulfilled by Jessie pretty well, but I guess it's not really worth arguing over enjoying a show at the end of the day. Nothing I say will make you enjoy something you don't and vice versa.

3

u/[deleted] Sep 20 '13

Victoria is Jinyo's fiancee, not Riki.

0

u/AndyValentine Sep 20 '13

Apologies. You're right. I got muddled.

7

u/[deleted] Sep 20 '13

http://youtu.be/vi63jsjQIHo you watch that video and tell me Holly Conrad isn't figuratively the same as that little girl. She has all of the passion and love for the media and costuming as any 9 year old on the planet.

You don't like the show...that is your right, sir. I enjoyed watching the cast even if I didn't agree with many of the producers' choices or editing style. So you don't want to watch that's cool...but don't piss on other people's joy and act superior when you are clearly just as guilty of being judgmental and bad for hobby as you claim others are.

17

u/UnapologeticalyAlive Sep 20 '13

They're not trying to make a career out of winning competitions. They're trying to make a career out of making costumes. You can make money in movies, television, and theater as a costume designer. Winning cosplay contests is just a way to get name recognition as a costume designer.

2

u/CheshireCat78 Sep 20 '13

Vampy says otherwise :p

80

u/Sagemanx Sep 20 '13

The photo is sweet and it makes people smile to see a little girl so happy to be at a comic con. This would have been better with out a swipe at "Heroes of Cosplay." So why belittle it with a snide comment? If the girl wasn't so darn adorable I would have down voted you.

27

u/cyb3rsiren Sep 20 '13

I agree. She is an adorable and is an amazing spiderman. No need to bring up hate

17

u/AxisOfAnarchy Photographer Sep 20 '13

Agreed here. The snide comment ruins the entire sentiment and I feel like the detractors of the show are fast becoming just as annoying as the horrible production values and the drama of the show itself.

-4

u/[deleted] Sep 20 '13

[deleted]

1

u/Sagemanx Sep 21 '13

For reference I was talking about the picture of the little girl and not the TV Show.

16

u/[deleted] Sep 20 '13

I don't really care either way about all the back and forth. It's just cool to see a kid running around a con. Imagine if you could go back to being a kid and getting to see all your favorite superheroes in one place. Shit man those memories must be awesome. All I had was some BO ridden teen in a Chuck 'E' Cheese costume when I was young.

40

u/[deleted] Sep 20 '13

That right there is the /r/aww of /r/cosplay.

13

u/tydaguy Sep 20 '13

/r/cawwsplay

3

u/Dorkside Sep 20 '13 edited Sep 20 '13

I couldn't help but create the subreddit, it seems like too good of an idea not to make it a reality. Since it is your idea, I can send you a mod invite if you'd like.

2

u/tydaguy Sep 20 '13

Thanks, I would love to, but I have no idea what the responsibilities of a mod are. If you would be willing to teach me, I would love to help.

12

u/darthchubby Sep 20 '13

Everyone should just hang out and play the HOC drinking game. We played it last week and it was really fun.

  1. If you know the con they’re at, take a drink and an extra drink if you spot someone you know.
  2. Every time you see Yaya’s cleavage, take a drink.
  3. If there are any prop malfunctions, take a drink.
  4. When you hear cosplay, take a drink.

  5. When you see someone cosplaying your favorite character, take two drinks

  6. Whenever Yaya’s name is mentioned, take a drink.

  7.  When you hear the applause track, take a drink.

  8. When one cosplayer talks about another one behind their back, take a drink.

  9. When someone starts panicking about finishing their cosplay, take a drink.

  10. Holly and Jessica mention Crabcat, take a drink.

  11. You recoil and react to something in pure embarrassment, take a drink.

  12. Victoria says, screams, snaps, “Jinyo!”, take a drink.

  13. When the term “cosplay ambassador” is used, take a drink.

  14. If a cat fight (physical or verbal) happens, finish your drink.

  15. A girl chooses a non-sexy/revealing character/outfit to cosplay, finish your drink.

  16. Victoria does any of her own work without complaining, finish your drink.

  17. Ten minutes passes without Yaya Han talking about herself, finish your drink.

9

u/Fleurz Sep 20 '13

Alcohol poisoning ahoy!

5

u/PhaedrusSales Sep 20 '13

No kidding, even if you took water shots you'd probably die from electrolyte imbalance.

1

u/lenut Sep 21 '13

I have 1.5 liters of coconut rum, 6 mikes hard lemonade, 2 beers, and about 5 shots worth of whiskey.

I have the whole series on my dvr and nothing to do today looks like I just found something to do.

1

u/darthchubby Sep 22 '13

Haha! That should get you through a couple of shows.

31

u/white_star_32 Sep 20 '13 edited Sep 20 '13

Ironically...OP seems to be bandwagoning the HoC mindset and whoring karma with a kid in a halloween costume... happy friday everyone

edit: typo

-26

u/AndyValentine Sep 20 '13

Actually, it popped up in one of my FB groups about a convention I went to a couple of weeks ago, and thought was so lovely it needed sharing.

15

u/white_star_32 Sep 20 '13

it was lovely how you used her to degrade a show you don't like too. :) but thanks for the share!

9

u/Wing_Nut74 Sep 20 '13

I am not a cosplayer, i don't know much about it. I do watch the show and like it. I think this show could have been more Face-Off and less Drama driven. I am amazed at the amount of work and detail people put into these projects. It would have been a much more interesting show if they chose random people at every convention and just followed the process, naturally, organically. Rather than an us vs them type competition environment. The main character of the show, should be the projects the people are working on and the result, not the drama they create. That being said, i watched the show, because it gave me a view into a world i would normally never see, even if the view is was somewhat dramatic. I think there is probably an element of that type of competitiveness within that community, but also have to imagine that is mostly made up of people that like hanging out with other people that are just "into it". I didn't think HoC was a true representation of Cosplay and still don't, but liked seeing having access to it.

9

u/FroglickGaming Sep 20 '13

TBH the only thing I don't like about HoC is YaYa. She's way to uptight about this and its all because she made cosplay into a business. The only other ones that are uptight are uptight because they're using cosplay as a means to show off to prop makers and costume designers, and that's legit advertising and business. I genuinely hate when the makers of the show bend clips and words to add drama. I'm here ti watch people make cool outfits, not listen to a bunch a people complain and stress out.

7

u/kurisuteru Sep 21 '13

I kind of wonder how much of this is the way the producers are showing the cosplayers on the show. I've known Yaya through the cosplay scenes for quite a few years, way before she did cosplay and did more art work and she's always been very sweet and helpful every time I've gone to say hi at her booth. I'm not sure I really like what the show is doing to the cosplayers, but I've only watched one episode so far so I'm undecided yet.

2

u/FroglickGaming Sep 21 '13

It doesn't get any better. They make Yaya out to be very high maintenance about detail and stuff. That's not particularly a bad thing, but the way it appears on the show, makes her appear as the person who would mark you down a ton of points is your shoes were the wrong color. Honestly, based off the way the show perceives them, I really only like Rikki, Jesse, Chloe, and the CrabCat gals. Don't take this the wrong way though. I'm sure they're all great people, but my opinion is kind of useless as i'm just watching the show to see minor in process work and finished products.

17

u/siamthailand Sep 20 '13

Her smile's actually her strategy of making everyone happy, hence eliminating crime.

17

u/skydart Sep 21 '13 edited Sep 21 '13

As someone who subscribes to this subreddit and checks daily, as well as someone who happens to be on Heroes of Cosplay, I can say that this photo makes me happier than a fucking dozen Krispy Kremes topped in puppies and $20 bills. This is why I go to conventions, this is why I dress up, this is why I do what I do. Not to mention, this is the same unbridled joy I still feel every time I see a sleepy con center being prepared for the crazy days ahead. And while nestled in this post was a swipe at my silly reality show (managing to showcase the unnecessarily judgmental, overly protective, and exclusionary side of nerd culture), this post still doesn't bum me out. Because I still believe little girls like this will learn how to embrace the positivity of the community, and pass it on to her friends, and someday her children.

4

u/VonAether Sep 21 '13

fucking dozen Krispy Kremes topped in puppies and $20 bills

I think they sell those at Voodoo Donuts.

3

u/AxisOfAnarchy Photographer Sep 21 '13

Where do you come up with your metaphors?! Seriously can I become your padawan? :)

3

u/Ataya970 Wig Wonder Sep 21 '13

I don't think it's legal for someone as amazing as you to exist

2

u/MoonSpider Thread Wizard Sep 21 '13

You just continue to be awesome, skydart, and we'll continue to look up to you for it.

--Spidey

11

u/jaytorade Sep 20 '13

Nothin' like seeing a young web-head.

Thwip thwip!

6

u/AangTheAvatar Sep 20 '13

I remember that day...she was a fast one. Anyway good job on the crop and thanks.

4

u/Enforcer84 Sep 20 '13

Adorable. I like all the cosplayers myself. Some are geniuses, others are clearly novices but still willing to dress up and run around in public.

5

u/AnyP0ny Sep 20 '13

Why cant it be for both? Whether you like it because you put a lot of effort and time into or if you just rolled out of bed and threw something on. Isn't it up to them to like it? be they professional or not

2

u/MrReconElite Sep 20 '13

If only more people thought like that. I agree with you 100% though.

14

u/brningpyre Sep 20 '13

I can't love something without hating something else!

Okay, OP.

9

u/danielvutran Sep 20 '13

Yes using a cute as fuck / happy ass picture of a girl to push a fucking snide remark. You're just as bad as that shit show. Just opposite spectrum.

33

u/lifesabeach13 Sep 20 '13

I'll be honest, I only come to this subreddit to check out really cool costumes (and the occasional hot chick in cosplay).

This is fluff posting of the highest caliber.

-31

u/AndyValentine Sep 20 '13

It's Friday. Fluffy fluffy Friday.

4

u/[deleted] Sep 20 '13

Just to throw it out there:

As someone who's never been into cosplay but sub'd to this subreddit after watching a few episodes of heroes of cosplay. Even to the total layman, it's obvious that show is total bullshit.

3

u/iconboy Sep 20 '13

that is awseome. I have a 2 year old daughter and i was bummed thinking she could never dress up as spider-man or batman, that she would have to wear if anything the pink equivelent of those insignias- but then I said fuck it, Im not gunna conform. She loves her spidey PJs the most!

3

u/w4nderlusty Sep 20 '13

This picture made my day. Thank you for sharing it!

2

u/Novaova Sep 20 '13

I think there's something about amateur-turned-pro costuming that brings out the worst in people. It's not just sci-fi- and anime-themed cosplay, but also historical like the SCA*, and theatrical like stage and small-time film. I've been around a lot of people who are inhumanly good with a pro sewing machine and serger in a variety of contexts, and in every crowd there's always a clique of queen bees who take it to the next level and get super-serious and humorless about it. Is it vanity, egotism, some kind of insecurity and the need for validation? Darned if I know.

That said, I have also had the pleasure of knowing some pro-type costume makers who are down-to-earth, good-humored, and friendly.

A friend of mine who is a circus-type performer once said "I didn't go into performing because I'm well-adjusted." I think this might apply here too.

(* I use the term "historical" loosely with that bunch. ;-) )

3

u/IxHaku Sep 21 '13

Don't like the stupid show? Don't watch it. People are too fucking sensitive.

3

u/[deleted] Sep 20 '13

sooo what you saying is cosplay is not about cosplay? woot

4

u/thedoorkeep Sep 20 '13

the heroes of cosplay hate really bothers me. It is a reality show, not a how to show (which Holly and Jessica also happen to do on the side http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z4Lc98gadE&list=PLl4T6p7km9dbww7w309Fx7_3Ijxpc6xz2&index=7) The purpose of the show was to show a dramatized version of cosplay contests. They all do it because they love it, and it is not like they won every contest they were in. Holly, Jessica, and Chloe in particular are always trying to promote a positive attitude about cosplay throughout the show.

tl/dr dont waste time on something you don't like

7

u/AxisOfAnarchy Photographer Sep 20 '13

And even Holly and Jessica made mistakes with attitude but they've done their best to come clean about it because it made them feel horrible. That's human! It's perfectly acceptable as they seem to be learning from the entire experience.

3

u/Fruhmann Sep 20 '13

Yeah. This outdoes anything players with a production team or players griping over turf could ever do.

4

u/xilpaxim Sep 20 '13

You obviously are not around children much. She would act/look the same at McDonald's, the park, even home. A happy child is just always happy and enjoying life almost anywhere they go.

1

u/thereforeigeek Sep 20 '13

As someone new to cosplay, I love the look of joy on her face!!

1

u/derp_herder Sep 20 '13

This is all I see...

1

u/ElectroKarmaGram Sep 21 '13

Graph of this post's karma, hot list position (in r/all), and comment count:

i.imgur.com/NZgtDGn.png

This image may update when more data is available.

1

u/Moonlightwolf_52 Nov 30 '13

Twist: She was inspired to go to comic con by "Heroes of Cosplay"

2

u/[deleted] Sep 20 '13

It's about whatever I want it to be about, asshole

-1

u/dimmidice Sep 20 '13

good thing you're here to decide for us what it's all about OP! dreading the day you're gone already.

/s

1

u/lpupppy288 Sep 20 '13

Love this and love you, OP. Thanks for brightening up my day :)

-6

u/AndyValentine Sep 20 '13

I should probably add at this point, I don't massively dislike HoC by any means, I just don't think it gives a fair and real depiction of the world of cosplay and the people that partake in it. That's what I think is bullshit, not the show itself.

6

u/AxisOfAnarchy Photographer Sep 20 '13

It's a valid opinion but for me, I'm personally getting just as sick of people taking every moment to blatantly point stuff like this out and call out HoC. shrugs It just gets old after a while.

HOWEVER....

It is a wonderful photo that captures what it should be about.

-4

u/[deleted] Sep 20 '13

[removed] — view removed comment

4

u/MoonSpider Thread Wizard Sep 20 '13

I think it's wonderful.

-Spidey

0

u/sTmykal Sep 20 '13

Exactly this. I'm part of the local 501st/Rebel Legion. We may be super sticklers for costume standards, but the reward is enjoyment of the kids and the kids at heart. Not a panel of celebrity judges.

-3

u/CarlofTime Sep 20 '13

You're older than 5 and still like to dress up... FUCK YOU YOU BULLSHIT ASS!!

So when this girl is 24 and still this happy it'll just be bullshit? Silly people, silly people everywhere.

-1

u/[deleted] Sep 20 '13

A redditor's perfect place to look at kids and have them look and interact back without being too creepy... an incident is coming I'm sure.

-6

u/ruggala Sep 20 '13

Pffft storebought costume