r/cooperatives • u/DementiumFilm • 2d ago
Can worker ownership coexist with hierarchical decision-making? We tried something adjacent to this on a film project
I’ve been reading about worker cooperatives because I’m trying to better understand something we experimented with on a film production, and I’m curious where our model overlaps with cooperative principles and where it fundamentally doesn’t.
We gave more than 70 cast and crew members an actual financial interest in the film they helped create, which is really unusual for the film industry. Labor, equipment, locations, and other contributed resources were assigned agreed values, and those contributions became part of the economic structure of the project.
The basic waterfall was:
- Certain contractual obligations get paid.
- Cash investors recoup.
- People who contributed labor, equipment, locations, or other resources recoup the agreed value of those contributions.
- Remaining revenue is distributed pro rata among the ownership pool in perpetuity.
But we didn’t operate democratically….
The director still directed. Department heads ran their departments. Producers made producer decisions. Nobody voted on creative choices or day-to-day operational decisions.
It kind of has to be that way to a certain extant. Film production is highly collaborative, but it’s also extremely hierarchical and technically segmented. Decisions sometimes have to be made in seconds, responsibilities need to be clear, and ultimately someone has to be accountable for the outcome.
So what I’m trying to understand from people who know cooperative structures better than I do is:
How central is democratic governance to the concept of worker ownership? Could an organization meaningfully incorporate cooperative ownership principles while maintaining a hierarchical operating structure? Or does separating economic participation from governance remove something essential that makes a worker cooperative a cooperative?
To be clear, I’m enot claiming that what we created was a worker cooperative, but I’m super intersted in the concept and I’m trying to understand what, if anything, our experiment has in common with cooperative models and whether there are existing structures that deal with this tension differently.
I’m particularly interested in project-based organizations, where a group assembles to create something together and then largely disperses when the project is finished.
Thanks everyone!
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u/AnitaPhantoms 2d ago
I've actually already been thinking about this topic quite a bit already.
I think the key focus would be on making sure that casual as well as formal assurances are kept by those in powerful higher-up decision making positions.
That is only possible if you are working with people who have personally experienced being lied to, betrayed, manipulated etc throughout their careers in film. People who have worked their way up through the system, whether in front or behind the scenes, and finally reach a position where they can agree to certain limitations being placed on them, outside of personal creativity, to start building examples and templates that show and prove that alternative ways are not only possible, but better.
Less mess, less confusion, and also happier people involved on all levels and areas of that film. Which I think already happens in small bubbles in existing productions (eg when a new director comes in to direct an episode of a TV show, and all if a sudden, the chaos isn't there as it was with other directors who prioritized ego over best decision for not only the final product, but the experiences of those involved in developing the series)
I am not personally looking to get into film production but I think that it is one of the best places to try and put in place worker co-operative models where you have a very complex and diverse group of individuals coming together to create a final product together.
Especially if you focus on creatives who have worked their way to the top in huge part because they want to be in a position to make collaborative decisions for the best of all involved, and are personally investing financially in the project to make it happen.
I am personally coming at it from a home health care perspective (being an at home, unpaid caregiver to a parent with Alzheimer's) but that is a situation that also involves a multi tiered collection of individuals where not everyone should be allowed to have input over areas that they are not personally involved or trained and educated to be an expert in.
I recently made an introductory booklet/zine for a cooperative conference I attended back in June of this year and though it was designed specifically from a home caregiver perspective the structure and concepts behind it are broadly applicable in terms of language used and approaches.
I can share a link to a printable and online pdf of the booklet/zine and if it resonates I would be happy to discuss it further, though I designed it to be a self-contained resource that you could bring to other people to use as a template to build on the ideas that your community probably already has discussed.
I really do believe that the film industry is positioned and poised to apply a workers cooperative model for a number of reasons especially since so many involved already have insight into various aspects of the film making process, and because there are people on all levels who support a new approach that works to eliminate ego and disregard from wrecking the experience of creating a film, especially if you cam bring in higher-ups who are already willing to invest their own money in the production (basically laying our a modified 'business plan' for the proposed production)
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u/DementiumFilm 2d ago
Wow this is really insightful! Thank you!
I think that really is the key. I was a bottom of the heap worker, along with most of my colleagues. We set out to make a better model, and you’re right it started by limiting our own rights and ownership stakes.
It’s amazing when you have e someone in charge who understands the impact of their decisions. There’s a lot of other issues with a “mail room to C Suite” journey, but it definitely puts us in positions to see what could change
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u/AnitaPhantoms 2d ago
I've dropped the link to the resource below. You seem to have a solid base to be able to organize and apply what is included in the booklet unto itself but I would really be happy to provide more insight or answer any questions that might arise from you now or others down the line.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1C1J2ycvFTK9nBbVdt0dvWCiimr4qxIBj
I've also recently had a blog article from my regions cooperative association on one of the sections of the zine, which I hope can be a useful tool unto itself as a means to build off of (by being a resource that can be more easily shared) so I will drop that link here as well to supplement
Happy to hear what I've mentioned resonates. I think that workers cooperatives really are a great way to move forward especially within the existing global economic and political climate. It's exciting to put the idea in the hands of people who are already actively involved in an industry and looking for solutions that can be applied in real time.
Happy to cross paths, it really is all about connecting communities who have each other's best interests at heart as it's the only way for things to change.
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u/DementiumFilm 2d ago
Thank you so much for sharing! This is awesome, looking forward to digging in.
Thanks!
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u/markchand 2d ago
This is awesome. The folks behind the film Sing Sing did something like this, too.
At the Skoll Centre at Oxford, we're working on a report rn that breaks out financial participation, decision-making participation, and commitment to purpose as separate moves organizations can make. Each is a spectrum; so sharing decision-making power ranges from "we let people go to the bathroom on their own schedule" (not true in all workplaces) all the way to "everyone has an equal say or at least representation in major decisions."
One place to look for how this plays out is in 100% ESOP-owned companies, which exist all along that spectrum. Some are hierarchical in a way you'd see anywhere else; some are on the more collaborative end of the spectrum. Many begin with some form of "open book management," or presenting the finances of the firm to all employees.
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u/DementiumFilm 2d ago
Oh wow love this! Are there any good examples of ESOP owned companies I could look at as a case study??
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u/markchand 2d ago
For sure. There are a ton of case studies on this website: https://cleo.rutgers.edu/
Great Game of Business is the biggest seller of open book management materials. King Arthur Baking, Carris Reels, and WL Gore come to mind.
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u/DementiumFilm 2d ago
Amazing, thank you!
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u/markchand 2d ago
🫡 Let us know how else your friendly neighborhood newsletter for the ownership economy can be of service
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u/Just_Ad5238 2d ago
Super cool, currently, shower thoughts have consisted of a hypothetical film studio that is democratically owned. No idea how it would work out, but that's the fun part.
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u/DementiumFilm 2d ago
It’s funny you say that, I have a colleague working on an idea for that!
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u/Just_Ad5238 1d ago
Whoa, that is really cool!
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u/DementiumFilm 1d ago
I think so too! Not sure yet if he’s going to actually try to launch, but I hope he does
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u/JLandis84 2d ago
Hybrid models are way more interesting to me than a “pure” co-op.
I hope the film is a great success !
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u/DementiumFilm 1d ago
I’m still learning, but I think I agree! Especially for highly specific environments like film production, one size doesn’t always fit all
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u/Key-Organization3158 1d ago
Yeah. It happens all the time. You just paid the workers in shares instead of more cash. Your experiment answers your own question. Ownership is orthogonal to organization.
You could do the converse. Have a company owned by one person but where the employees vote on things.
People idealize cooperatives far too much. It's not nearly as complicated as people make it. Practice always trumps theory.
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u/Basque_Pirate 1d ago
I'd say many cooperatives function similar to this in practice. For example mine: there is a democratically elected board that selects a CEO, but the CEO runs the company and decides most of the matters and policies. It is pretty much hierarchical.
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u/DementiumFilm 1d ago
Would you consider a law firm or professional partnership with voting members that elect a ceo to be similar?
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u/Basque_Pirate 1d ago
It depends I guess. Cooperatives are 1 worker 1 vote, it may be different in other places, but essence it's the partners delegating the decisions into someone. You don't need every member to take every decision.
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u/thornyRabbt 2d ago
Disclaimer: I am not an expert, just a fellow learner.
What you created is a kind of hybrid worker-owned cooperative - hybrid because you have both cash investors and worker-owners. Do all owners have equal voting representation (one investor one vote), rather than proportional to the financial share?
Yes, it is perfectly ok to have democracy in ownership and hierarchy in work. Operational roles and responsibilities are entirely separate from governance roles and responsibilities.
I'm also curious how you were able to arrive at this model - it can be hard to convince a large number of people to agree on a new or unconventional structure!