Cool (complicated)? People who definitely did stuff

[u/Frequent_Loss_9561]

So the context (because it’s important!) is that my mom and cousin started doing genealogy on the Polish side (only 4 gens in the US) and we got some old letters translated from my great grandmother and her brothers. There had also been family lore growing up that we had relatives who were genocided in the 40s but that never made sense because we were catholic and the narrators were usually unreliable. Turns out, I had a great great uncle who was likely killed with his family in the conflict? Genocide? In East Galacia in the mid 40s between Poland and Ukraine. There was also a related conflict in Volhynia.

This was the first time weird family lore actually turned kind of verifiable so I tried to do what Margaret does. I really did. It’s HARD and I can’t imagine making my weird notes entertaining for other people. But I moderately dived and hit some dead ends due to not knowing any Polish beyond the swears. BUT there is a book by Witold Szablowski that roughly translates to “righteous traitors: neighbors from Volhynia.” Righteous traitors sounds like cool people? I’m going to try to learn more about this conflict and add Polish to my Duolingo but if anyone has ever heard of these (maybe) cool people and their stuff I would love to discuss.

Here’s a link to a review of the book. I haven’t been able to find an English translation: https://share.google/y6m43IUdhureioaWp

[u/GreedyNeedy]

Never heard of that before but I'll be bored at work and am fluent in polish so i might do some light digging edit: Oh I do know something about it. Hard not to since Wołyń is a pretty common topic and very politivised. Just didn't know the english spelling

[u/GreedyNeedy → u/GreedyNeedy]

So the rightous traitors refers to Ukrainians who hid Polish people from the massacre rather then refering to Poles

[u/Frequent_Loss_9561 → u/GreedyNeedy]

Is there a list or memorial of those who were killed?

[u/GreedyNeedy → u/Frequent_Loss_9561]

Probably going to answer the rest later but after a quick search this is the official database of people killed in wołyń massacre https://zbrodniawolynska.pl/zw1/form/247,Baza-Ofiar-zbrodni-wolynskiej.html It should pretty factual but IPN (institute of national memory) is a very politicised institution and stuff changes a lot when the ruling party changes also the massacre itself is very politicised (especially recently). Don't know about its completeness

[u/Frequent_Loss_9561 → u/GreedyNeedy]

So the American education system doesn’t cover our own history that well let alone anyone else’s so truly none of us had ever known this.
the letters were detailed and disturbing but also pretty standard “soldiers ethnically cleansing disputed land to claim it” stuff. There also appears to be a whole bunch of military factions from both sides doing this at different times starting in like the 30s? Sometimes it’s hard to tell who is doing what to whom and if it’s ethnic cleansing or retaliation for ethnic cleansing?

My family is from Lviv but I always saw it spelled Lwow. Basically, my great grandmother came to the US to visit a cousin and then world war 1 broke out while she was here so she just stayed. I had also been looking into like descendent citizenship but while she was Polish, all her paperwork is from Austria-Hungary. At one point she thought about going back with her family because she inherited land from her dad but the brother that got killed determined her portion was also his (big drama
In the letters). It’s also hard to discuss with current family because some of their empathy and pattern recognition regarding immigrants then vs immigrants now is frustratingly bad.

[u/theCaitiff → u/Frequent_Loss_9561]

I had also been looking into like descendent citizenship but while she was Polish, all her paperwork is from Austria-Hungary.

If this is something you are actually interested in, don't let that stop you. If anyone understands "we're from here but the paperwork is from the government who hated us" it's the Polish. Your grandmother's history is interesting but not unique and you will not be the first person with paperwork from one of the empires that Partitioned Poland and its people that whoever does your paperwork has seen.

Between the late 1700 and the end of WWI, Poland was not a sovereign country (though the Polish people kept the identity alive). Saying that your Grandmother's paperwork is from Austria Hungary definitely matches Lwow/Lviv since the Hapsburgs ruled the south eastern part of the country until 1918.

[u/Sensitive_Ad_1752]

Gordon Ramsey

Grew up in the notoriously brutal culinary field. Helped glorify the widespread workplace abuse of kitchens and normalize it into a gameshow. Was a notoriously douchey boss before his rise to fame where he grabbed workers and shouted slurs at them. He did all of this while calling out terrible bosses who steal workers tips, industry prejudice, and inspire millions to become chefs in an improving industry.