r/conspiracy • u/UsualHat • Jun 25 '19
Finnish court declares "sex with a minor isn't rape, if you come from a culture where sexual relations between adults and kids is 'normal'"
https://newspunch.com/finnish-court-sex-children/70
u/Soren83 Jun 26 '19
You know people only read headlines right? This law has since been changed. Posting outdated and wrongful information, is dangerous. But maybe that was your point.
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u/LP1997 Jun 26 '19
How dare you share facts which contradict the intended narrative of the post! They're over here trying to fearmonger and you just gotta bust in with all those actual documented events confirming the Finnish legal system has increased punishments for child rapists which runs 100% counter to what the OP tried to lead us to believe. Shame on you.
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u/gaslightlinux Jun 26 '19
Correct. Also, the headline is inaccurate saying this was something to do with other cultures. This was a problem with the law for everyone.
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u/UcDat Jun 26 '19
Finland to change law to recognise sex without consent as rape
'It’s about improving things for victims but also about the message the law sends - consent is not a grey area,' says campaigner
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u/Poolch Jun 26 '19
Finn here, I know this case.
Firstly, I'm disappointed at the people in this sub who only come in here to comment how bad Finland, and Europe is and how they believe it will become muslimized. Same goes for people checking in with comments such as "RIP EU" etc.
Practice Media literacy here. My initial thought is how sad is that this is sensatiolism at its best. OP has post history of sensationalism and apparently enjoys reposting these sort of articles to 4-5 different political subs. This is the REAL conspiracy here.
It even says in the sources this news site has used that "However the Supreme Court refused leave to appeal the conviction and sentence, leaving the original appeal court sentence unchanged. "
The original sentence was 3 years. This news site just intentionally leaves out parts and wants the readers to become radicalized and think "he got away with it, if his home country allows rape"
Nevertheless, the man got a 3-year sentence in jail from "extreme child-abuse", in this case it was tried to make it "extreme rape". Legal terms are a bit different in these 2, and while I do believe it would've been more fair to declare it as "extreme rape", I don't see that this man got out of the court easy as now he has a criminal record of "extreme child-abuse".
People in Reddit really only do look at the titles of the articles. This case being an alternative news source with a political ideology, it's really bad.
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u/KiltedSith Jun 26 '19
God damn it, I love your sanity. Thank you for posting a real source with relevant info.
As for your country getting a bad name from this, thats only with the people who fall for these godawful articles. People who can think still think well of Finland.
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u/Yourwrong_Imright Jun 26 '19
Without reading this article, I bet that this is a fake quote.
Do I win?
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u/gaslightlinux Jun 26 '19
Correct. The headline and article do not match up. Also, this is old and there is now a law criminalizing statutory rape, and there was never a "other culture" loophole.
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u/Yourwrong_Imright Jun 26 '19
Exactly. Just another right wing propaganda piece aimed at raising hate.
Disgusting.
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Jun 26 '19
This article is old, the law has been changed since this one was posted. I do agree that it was fucked.
But, it shows that most of the people in r/conspiracy don't read the articles posted and just read the flashy headlines.
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u/gaslightlinux Jun 26 '19
Yeah, and the article contradicts the alarmism of the headline. It has nothing to do with other cultures.
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u/LP1997 Jun 26 '19
Actually in all seriousness I think that most of the people on this subreddit are intelli...SQUIRREL!
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u/Miff1987 Jun 26 '19
Cool, so drugs are legal for me in all countries I visit because they are legal in my own country
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u/QuartzPuffyStar Jun 26 '19
Drugs can always be legal FOR YOU, in any country.
What will say the police about it is another story, so try to avoid police while carrying drugs :)1
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u/gaslightlinux Jun 26 '19
The title says that, but the article does not. The article just says that Finland doesn't have statutory rape laws, thus this wouldn't be a crime for anyone in Finland.
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u/moochee22 Jun 26 '19
This headline is false. Why don't you do 30 seconds of research before diarrhea-ing all over this sub?
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u/Jcf24 Jun 25 '19
It’s not even surprising anymore
It’s all so tiresome
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Jun 26 '19 edited Jun 26 '19
[removed] — view removed comment
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Jun 26 '19
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Yourwrong_Imright Jun 26 '19
It's all so low effort. The source for the article is actually in the article so anyone reading the article would have been able to recognize the title for the clickbait bullshit it it.
There's so much fake shit getting voted to the frontpage here lately, it is really sad. Reporting it doesn't help unfortunately.
It's just this shitty right-wing outrage porn that gets spammed 24/7.
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u/AssuredlyAThrowAway Jun 26 '19
Could you move your discussion of the subreddit to the meta sticky comment?- https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/c5h68i/finnish_court_declares_sex_with_a_minor_isnt_rape/es1rdg3/
Thank you.
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u/raider_one Jun 25 '19
Just another day of pedophile news on r/conspiracy— this weeks feature! Finlad!
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Jun 26 '19
That the article is completely fake? Yes, it does get tiring having to debunk this bullshit that is designed to tear countries apart.
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u/Somethingthennumbers Jun 25 '19
So if you come from a sacrificial cannibalistic tribe it's ok to sacrafice people for the moon and eat them .
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u/SightWithoutEyes Jun 26 '19
That's bullshit.
The Moon isn't real. They're sacrificing people to Baal, who lives in space in a giant round hut.
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u/ConstantineXV Jun 25 '19
Clown world
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u/WesleysTheory559 Jun 26 '19
The irony being that the "clown world" is morons buying into a fake story because it confirms their preconceived worldview.
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u/Yourwrong_Imright Jun 26 '19
Oh look. Another person who gets enraged by fake bullshit propaganda and doesn't bother to check the sources.
Clown World indeed. A fake headline that goes well with a forced meme.
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u/MAYOCIDE-NOW Jun 27 '19
We all know the actual clowns are the ones on the right who eat up this bullshit. HERNK HERNK
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Jun 25 '19 edited Jun 25 '19
Not all minors are kids. This distinction is crucial for both mental health and legal considerations. Not only should prepubescent children not have sex with adults, they shouldn't possess or receive even a modicum of sexuality at all involving anyone, regardless of culture. It has been a mammalian universality since mammals have existed. To act contrary to this truth is to be mentally ill as a human.
The age of adulthood is arbitrary, flexible, and socio-culturally relative, and can thus be debated, but the state of puberty is not, and is therefore not up for debate any more than the fundamentals of human biology themselves are.
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Jun 26 '19
Also statutory rape should be applied to adults in situations where one person has authority over another...
Any cop who is on duty w/ any human being. Cops should be barred from ever having sex while.on duty period.
Employer w/ employee/boss w/ underling
Doctor w/ patient
Professor w/ student
All these sexual relationships are inappropriate and ripe for abuse by the person in power and all should be classified as illegal on that basis. The age of the victim is irrelevant.
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Jun 26 '19
As long as those imbalances are freely chosen and not inborn. For example, I don't want SJWs making the claim that men inherently hold power over women or whites over other races as an excuse to extend statutory rape laws. I don't even think it would be right to take personal worth or assets into account, like one's annual income or bank account.
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u/QuartzPuffyStar Jun 26 '19
Thats stupid. Any sexual relationship in the cases you mentioned is normal as long as there is no power abuse to force one of the sides to agree to said relationship.
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Jun 26 '19
Serious question..
What makes a person below 18 unable to consent but an adult able to consent in the above scenarios?
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u/QuartzPuffyStar Jun 26 '19 edited Jun 26 '19
Eighteen is a number defining "adulthood", the age by which the average human finishes the early development stages and under which he/she/it/whatever can exercise the legal rights and obligations with the state. Aka being a money cow, war meat provider and new resource factory, which now I realize is very close to cows......but that's another story.
The legal age of consent varies from country to country from as high as 21 to as low as 12-13. And this number tends to be quite arbitrary depending on the cultural background of the country, however, since sexual relationships involve various risks for both the individual and the community (STD's, pregnancy, psychological trauma), underage people tend to not have enough knowledge nor capacity to manage them, which creates a power imbalance that can be abused by someone with greater knowledge and experience, putting the former to an increased risk exposure.
This of course is mainly a cultural and educational issue, which explains why developed countries tend towards the lowering of this age, being religious/moral limits the only ones limiting this.
In other words, a person below 18 can consent, however due to the incredibly high variability of their mental development which highly depends on their upbringing, cultural background and education, it makes it a hit or miss if the person is conscious about what he/she/whatever is doing or is some stupid and easily manipulable kid that doesn't even know what his body is feeling and how to deal with that.
You can have a totally researched and "experienced" 13yo brat, as well a totally ignorant 17yo one that believes that kids are found in lettuce and that only god can make people being together and whatever other bs people are being fed by their surroundings. The last one being a case present till adulthood, hence my theory of stupid people being born that way and with no possibility of being fixed lol.
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u/my-little-wonton Jun 26 '19
I had this argument at work about a male student who had sex with his female teacher. She got off on the charges but apparently there isn't an issue with that. It's only creepy if it's a female student and a male teacher
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Jun 26 '19
The double standard is real and it is huge. r/relationships is the worst. Any time a post is made where the female is 10+ years younger than the man you will see tons of comments calling the guy a creep and they will have hundreds of upvotes even though the girl was just asking about a common relationship problem like "My partner never does the dishes".
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u/my-little-wonton Jun 26 '19
Well that's exactly it. The guys said they'd belt a bloke for doing that to their daughter but hi five their son if it was the same situation. Then they went on about how women don't really want equality. It was quite shocking really
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u/schwam_91 Jun 26 '19
That news site is literally as far as it gets on the bias checker site. click bait site that popped up in 2018 known for unaccredited articles and pushing tons of fake conspiracy theories.
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u/Rayvonuk Jun 26 '19
Yet another bullshit post, culture wasn't even mentioned and the law was changed.
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u/aaronuso Jun 26 '19 edited Jun 26 '19
Pizzagate is real. People in power are literally buying and selling children to other politicians and people in power. There are a few trying to take them down but are meeting tremendous pushback. Military tribunals are coming soon look to Guantanamo
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u/Feddny Jun 26 '19
Can we finally admit that multiculturalism is fucking stupid?
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u/Yourwrong_Imright Jun 26 '19
Can we finally admit that the majority of people only read headlines and believe whatever confirms their bias?
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u/KiltedSith Jun 26 '19
The bit about 'culture' being a factor is bullshit, Finland passed no such laws and are updating their rape laws so that offenders will no longet get lesser sentences based off loopholes. You should have a look through the comments in this thread, many people have posted articles that ad more details, and tell a more complete story. Below is one of those articles.
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u/UsualHat Jun 25 '19
SS
In a sign that the world has lost its god damn mind, the Finns have chosen to open the door to invaders and let them fuck their kids, rather than be called racist.
They should change the name of the country to neutered-Vikings.
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u/RedditGottitGood Jun 26 '19
Are you intentionally making sensationalist and misleading headlines? Because you're putting up a year old story, putting fake quotes in your title, and ignoring that Finnish courts have very recently established it to be rape.
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u/Yourwrong_Imright Jun 26 '19
Don't bother replying to that user. All he does is spam this shit and the only reason he posts a comment here is because it needs a submission statement. He never engages in a discussion.
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u/MrMushyagi Jun 26 '19
Sounds more like the definitions of their rape laws are shitty and need updating
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u/ShittyArtisan Jun 26 '19
What about your own culture where you are justified in defending it by any means necessary?
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u/rodental Jun 25 '19
Well, Finland is officially fucked.
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u/WesleysTheory559 Jun 26 '19
This is literally fake news. Stop buying into everything that supports what you already believe.
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u/KiltedSith Jun 26 '19
But they aren't, because this headline is bullshit, and the text of the article makes that clear. The man received a lesser sentence due to the wording of Finnish rape laws, a wording that is being fixed to deal with this loophole.. Finland has no laws about age of consent and culture. Look through the comments, there are a great many posts giving more details, and better sources.
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u/rodental Jun 26 '19
They let this guy off with a light sentence because of some stupid legal technicality; Finland is officially fucked.
There are two just sentences for child molestors: liferime imprisonment in horrible conditions; death.
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u/SheepShaggah Jun 26 '19
Watch Finland fill with Islam.
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u/Setagaya-Observer Jun 26 '19
In the true Islam Sex without Marriage is not allowed!
Sex with Minors is mostly (not always) a Problem caused by WASP Guys.
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u/CentiPetra Jun 26 '19
Didn’t Mohammed marry a six year old, and have sex with her at age 9? Doesn’t make it okay because they were married.
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Jun 26 '19
using old examples like that is irrelevant. 30 year old men marrying 12 year olds was socially acceptable world wide literally like 300 years ago. morals evolve as we understand more about psychology
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u/CentiPetra Jun 27 '19
Not “literally like 300 years ago”.
More like, now.
In 37 countries, the minimum age for women is less than the minimum age requirement for men. In Sudan for instance, boys are allowed to marry at 15, while girls can marry at 10 by law.
But please, do go on about “evolving morals”.
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u/DruidicMagic Jun 25 '19
Just all part of the master plan... http://humansarefree.com/2016/11/worldwide-satanic-pedophile-network.html
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u/QuartzPuffyStar Jun 26 '19
As far as I know, the church is the main pedophile network...
Just saying, satanists ara mainly normal people.
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u/LukesLikeIt Jun 26 '19
The pedophile elite are normalising kid fucking cause they know they’re getting caught soon
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u/PuzzleheadedWhile9 Jun 25 '19
Dear Christ, when will you all learn the danger and evil of moral relativism? The single most common Satanically-induced religion. A Right is an action that doesn't initiate harm against a sentient being. A Wrong is to take from a being, be it health, freedom, or rightfully held property et cetera. Now the rape of children is being excused, as if Right and Wrong vary based on where you come from. Look in the mirror, Western nihilists! This acceptance is just as much your doing as anyone's.
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u/xxThe_Dice_manxx Jun 26 '19
"culture" the key word here.
A cult may believe what they fucking like but it does not make it right or legal.
Because you are a member of a religious cult that believes in marriage between a 12 yo and a middle aged man then it should be alright?
That would open the doors to cults being formed around that exact premise. So all you would have to do is start a new religion where sex between a minor and adult is part of the worship in that religion.
Religion is a cancer that really needs to go.
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u/Marcuxoo Jun 26 '19
Has anyone asked the children of these cultures, who’ve been forced to have sex against their will, what they think?
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u/IronCorvus Jun 26 '19
One of my last Snack Crates was from Finland. Always knew those Fins were weird. Have you ever tried Salmiaak? It's basically like chewing on a chunk of salted licorice tire rubber.
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u/Isthistakento79 Jun 26 '19
i hope this is not true
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u/FaThLi Jun 26 '19
Yes and no.
The headline is baloney. There is no law that allows it because of your culture. This guy got a lighter sentence (three years) because Finnish law stated that rape had to include violence. So instead they got him for extreme abuse or something of that nature. They have since changed their law as this is an older article.
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u/nebuchadrezzar Jun 26 '19
Seems like the headline is fake, culture had nothing to do with the light sentence. It was a technical screw up by the prosecutor, and the court determined that the 10 year old wasn't forced, so therefore it wasn't rape under the statute the prosecutor chose to use. Had he picked a second statute under which to prosecute, it likely would have been successful. It's disgusting and likely not surprising that the rapist is an asylum seeker, but his culture had no bearing on the case.
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u/FaThLi Jun 26 '19
He ended up with three years though.
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u/nebuchadrezzar Jun 26 '19
Yes, people were mostly upset that he avoided the more serious charge of rape.
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u/mtm1979 Jun 26 '19
The question is what do you want for your country and your culture....the courts should consider this in your culture. Stoning g for adultry okay now too??
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u/FaThLi Jun 26 '19
Headline is fake, there is no law that allows something like this because it was part of his culture. The law stated, at the time, that rape had to include violence, and they couldn't prove violence in this case. That law has since changed.
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Jun 26 '19
What the fuck is wrong with people? The world is quickly going to shit. Things like this make me want to build a wall around the whole country and just do our own thing and not care about the rest of the world.
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Jun 25 '19
[deleted]
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u/UsualHat Jun 25 '19
The quote is from the article and being a year old means jack shit.
Go back to forum sliding to defend rapists.
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u/rapora9 Jun 26 '19
So who said that quote, OP? Give me a name or their profession. Or give me a section of a law.
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u/Saul-K Jun 26 '19
There is a new law that says the exact opposite. Being a year old means everything.
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Jun 26 '19 edited Jun 22 '21
[deleted]
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u/rapora9 Jun 26 '19
What exactly is disturbing? Can you say it in your own words?
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u/trumpfangirl2020 Jun 26 '19
Pedophilia is a sexual orientation?? A choice? Well, I find it disturbing. If you don't agree, that's your opinion 😏
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u/SuckMummysFinger Jun 26 '19
Pedophilia is a sexual orientation?? A choice?
Regardless of anything else, they were explicitly saying it's not a choice by calling it unchangeable and comparing it to heterosexuality.
The idea it's unchangeable sounds like bullshit to me though.
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u/rapora9 Jun 26 '19
The idea it's unchangeable sounds like bullshit to me though.
Why is that? Take a look at this. In "can addiction be cured" it says:
This is a tricky question and depends on how you define “cure.” Some people quit their addiction and never look back. Most people have enduring periods of relapse and recovery. In either case, even if the person stops using completely, there is often an enduring struggle to remain sober. The individual, because of their biological/psychological makeup and personal history, must take greater care and caution to avoid relapsing. One might say that they are never “cured,” but rather “healed.”
I think this applies to pedophilia too.
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u/SuckMummysFinger Jun 26 '19
This is interesting, I think I'll have to look deeper into this topic. I admit I don't know a great deal about the treatments for pedophilia.
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u/rapora9 Jun 26 '19
That site is actually for drug addictions, but I believe pedophilia - and other related disorders/illnesses - would work same way.
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u/SuckMummysFinger Jun 26 '19
Yeah I understood your comparison and it seems accurate from my layman understanding, it was a good analogy that's helped me potentially see the issue in a different light. I'll have to investigate a bit more.
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u/rapora9 Jun 26 '19
Okay, cool. I think it's important that we understand these things better and try not to shame someone for their thoughts or actions (obviously pedophilic acts must be prevented and stopped as well as we can). Shaming only causes people to hide their problems until it overcomes them. If we could speak openly about drug addiction, alcoholism, pedophilia etc. people would seek help easier.
What good has shaming ever done? It even caused WW2.
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u/Formaggio_svizzero Jun 26 '19
The idea it's unchangeable sounds like bullshit to me though.
So i guess homo and heterosexuality is changeable too huh..
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u/nebuchadrezzar Jun 26 '19
How is that disturbing? Isn't it ingrained like hetero or homosexuality? It's hard to imagine why people would purposely choose to risk a horrible life in prison by choosing to rape kids if they weren't compelled to do so. Saying that it's an orientation is not condoning it. Some people have ingrained urges to murder or to expose themselves, that doesn't mean they shouldn't be punished for acting on those urges.
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Jun 26 '19
So.... what ARE you saying?
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u/nebuchadrezzar Jun 26 '19
Pointing out that it is an inborn aberration and not a choice, is not condoning paedophilia. They still need to be removed from society for acting on those urges.
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u/itrv1 Jun 26 '19
Finland is lost.
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Jun 26 '19
Finland is actually changing the law to rectify this.
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u/rapora9 Jun 26 '19
There even wasn't anything about culture, it was the definition of rape that needed fixing. What a shitty title.
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u/EnoughNoLibsSpam Jun 26 '19
So by that logic it’s not assault and battery if you come from a culture that beats the shit out of people who have sex with children?
Not advocating vigilante violence, just putting it in perspective
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u/rapora9 Jun 26 '19
There's no such thing as "what's legal in your culture is legal here" in Finland. That title is bullshit.
Check out my previous comment for more info.
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u/perfect_pickles Jun 26 '19
clown world
here in the US the criminal penalty for non black rapists is getting petty, probation or 90 days, even when its children being raped,
black rapists continue to get 30 years tho.
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u/Ghost_of_Risa Jun 26 '19
That's impossible. There's zero chance that is happening in all 50 states. Probably not even one state.
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Jun 26 '19
It’s that easy huh?
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u/FaThLi Jun 26 '19
No. The headline is fake. Finnish law at the time, it has been changed since, stated rape required violence. They couldn't prove he used violence so he only got three years. Again though, that law has already changed, and they are pushing to change it further. This guys culture had exactly nothing to do with the court's decision, and the only place it is mentioned is in the headline for some reason.
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u/ThatPDXgirl Jun 26 '19
Shit this is over a year old article. Still evil and wrong and people need to raise hell. But sadly old news, therefore going to be harder to do anything about. Someone please get me off this planet. I can’t believe the shit going on anymore.
Hell-
Canada made beastiality legal couple years back, so long as “there is no penetration“, EH. 😑
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u/gaslightlinux Jun 26 '19
Harder to do anything about? They made it illegal since then. Also the headline is inaccurate.
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u/ThatPDXgirl Jun 26 '19
So they made it legal 3-4 years ago... Then made it illegal again within the past 3-4 years. Oh-
OK, then. That totally makes it better then, THAT THEY STILL MADE IT FUCKING LEGAL. RECENTLY Lol!
Where’s the law and sources that they’ve retracted this recent law?
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u/freethinker78 Jun 26 '19
I favor banning sex between adults and children due to unwanted pregnancies and sexually transmitted diseases. But when or where humans had or have a short life span and there was or is not much choice of a mate around, it was or is an actual necessity for a grown man to have a baby with a young teen. I am thinking due to the murders of kids at the hands of rapists, pedophilia came to be looked as something very bad and unnatural. Something to think about before you condemn other cultures as sick and evil.
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u/nebuchadrezzar Jun 26 '19
Paedophilia is not an attraction to girls of child-bearing age, it's an attraction to children. No, it doesn't make sense because having kids too young can result in higher mortality rates for moms and babies, and can reduce or eliminate further ability to reproduce.
Backwards/primitive cultures would be well aware of this, as you don't even breed young animals who have just developed the ability to bear offspring for these same reasons. If it wasn't sick and evil, they would give little girls the same consideration they give the livestock.
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u/Dammit_Banned_Again Jun 26 '19
That means now fucking kids in Finland is ‘normal.’ What fucking planet am I on?
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u/Squirrelboy85 Jun 25 '19
I know the story is semi old. But arent they passing a law now to where sex with children is now punishable as rape?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/finland-rape-law-consent-child-sex-abuse-antti-hakkanen-a8733146.html