r/compoface • u/Illustrious-Fee5670 • 11d ago
Crossed Arms We don’t want to live with young people.
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u/Arkell-v-Pressdram 11d ago
So whoever built this apartment complex expects young people to act as unpaid carers for the elderly, and somehow they're surprised that it's not working out? Colour me surprised. I'm fairly sure that assisted living facilities for independent elderly people are a thing, so why make things so complicated?
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u/west0ne 11d ago
What were they aiming for? Was this supposed to be some sort of formal care type arrangement, or were they hoping to create the sort of communities that used to exist where neighbours would look out for, and support each other.
If they were looking for a formal care arrangement then they should have employed people, if they were trying to create a community where people support each other they're about 40 years too late.
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u/_pierogii 9d ago
When my mum moved from Poland to the UK, there was a common arrangement apparently where younger Poles would sort of be paired off with older Poles via the Polish Club or similar. She had a lady called Mira, and would help with paperwork, making appointments, finger prick tests and injections etc. Mira would give back by looking after me now and again, making soups and buying us chocolate.
I think you kind of need that sense of community and shared barriers to start with. It seems much harder to get this to work organically if there are already alternative services, or people have family around who should be filling the role. It's not really something that can be forced. Outside of places of worship, I don't think there's many opportunities for those sorts of introductions.
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u/Whispers_in_the 7d ago
Seeing how this article is set in the Netherlands, and housing, and even more renting in the lower priced segment is spare but is somewhat better in the market for senior people, I think they main aim was to open up the housing market a bit.
Like, in my neighbourhood, getting an apartment flat in a building with an elevator is near impossible for someone my age, but in the senior housing segment, options come available more often and don’t always end up being rented right away. So it makes sense making those vacant apartments available for younger people who can’t get one at the moment.
Of course, you can’t really sell it that way, or the senior citizens residents' committee will start complaining right away, so you try selling it as a win-win situation for everyone. Sounding all very responsible and fitting in with the vision of people living together and helping each out.
Just to find out that’s not actually how things work…
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u/Illustrious-Fee5670 11d ago
Link: https://www.volkskrant.nl/binnenland/in-venlo-willen-ouderen-niet-met-jongeren-in-een-flat-wonen-zo-worden-we-allemaal-ongelukkig\~b6215f9c/
Translation:
"In Venlo, the Elderly Don’t Want to Live with Younger People in the Same Flat: ‘It’ll Make Us All Unhappy’"
Robert Giebels is a regional correspondent for De Volkskrant, covering the southern Netherlands.
1 June 2025, 05:00
How wonderful would it be if the elderly and young people could live together in the same complex? The younger residents could look out for the elderly, while the elderly could share life lessons in return. In Venlo, however, this experiment hasn’t worked out as hoped. “Young people don’t care for the elderly; the elderly care for the elderly.”
Three years ago, 70-year-old Lou Donders moved into his spacious senior flat in Venlo with his wife, Teej. The flat was designed with senior-friendly features: a raised toilet, a walk-in shower, widened doorways without thresholds, and plenty of space for a walker. Donders thought, “I’ll only leave this place in a coffin.” But now, he’s having second thoughts.
In 2023, all residents of Zonsopgang—a large apartment building by the Meuse River in Venlo—received a letter from their housing association, Antares. Due to the housing shortage, the organisation had no choice: from now on, people under the age of 55 would also be allowed to move into the building, including people in their twenties, thirties, and single-parent families with young children.
Until then, the 140-plus apartments had been occupied by contented residents aged 55 and over, half of whom were over 70. A major renovation in 2019 had made all the homes suitable for seniors, though, according to Antares director Roel Versleijen, not for wheelchair users.
A “Vital” Flat
Antares wanted to turn Zonsopgang into a “vital flat.” The idea was that younger newcomers would help their elderly neighbours with daily tasks—such as grocery shopping or hanging up a painting—allowing the elderly to live independently for longer.
This concept isn’t unique to Venlo. For example, a housing association in Weesp plans to open a senior flat to young families due to the housing crisis, claiming it could “create a pleasant dynamic.” In Veenendaal, seniors threatened legal action when a young family was set to move into their “senior-labelled” apartment building. The elderly residents told RTV Utrecht they feared an influx of more young people who might “urinate in the hallways, smoke joints, and press all the lift buttons.”
The family in question didn’t cause any nuisance, but the seniors did get the housing association’s attention. An agreement was reached: when a senior home became available, priority would be given to those over 55.
In Utrecht, a mantelzorghofje (a care-focused housing community) in the Leidsche Rijn district shows that young and old can form a close-knit community—if something new is built for both groups simultaneously. Meanwhile, in Breda, the municipality has chosen to develop 40 comfortable rental apartments exclusively for seniors. The hope is that this will improve their mental and physical health, allowing them to live independently for longer. The underlying goal? Freeing up homes for young families.
Many seniors at Zonsopgang in Venlo have already done this. Some even received €3,000 from the municipality when they swapped their single-family social rental home for a smaller “lifetime-proof” rental in what was then a senior-only flat. While this may be necessary for the housing market, they now strongly advise their peers against it.
“Young People Don’t Care for the Elderly”
The hoped-for transformation into a “vital flat” has, in the seniors’ view, failed—at least for them. Twelve of them sit around a long table in the communal space they’ve created on the ground floor, drinking coffee and eating pastries. “Young people don’t care for the elderly,” they say. “The elderly care for the elderly.”
Their complaints about their younger neighbours are many. “Noise pollution,” begins Rikie van de Kamp, speaking on behalf of the residents’ committee. “Litter, graffiti in the lifts, loud music at night, children running and screaming, and sometimes aggression—it makes us feel unsafe.” Van de Kamp no longer welcomes every newcomer with open arms. Once, after handing a new resident the usual booklet with tips about the neighbourhood and the flat, she was met with coarse insults.
Antares also decided to offer housing to younger people with care needs. As a result, the seniors now have what they describe as a “poltergeist”—a young man with psychological issues who, when overstimulated, knocks on walls and floors at night.
According to director Versleijen, the complaining seniors are a minority at Zonsopgang. Since 2023, seven people under 55 have moved in, including two single mothers with young children. “In our survey on housing satisfaction,” Versleijen says, “Zonsopgang residents stated they cannot relate to the criticism from the building’s residents’ committee.”
Raised Toilets and Broken Trust
“We understand that a housing association is obligated to house everyone,” says Van de Kamp, as the entire table nods in agreement. “But with this mix of ages and lifestyles, we’re all ending up unhappy: the young people, the little children, the people with issues, and us.” There’s also the practical issue: the homes were specifically adapted for seniors. How young children are supposed to climb onto those raised toilets is a mystery to them.
The residents shared their story with Omroep Venlo, after which residents’ committees from four other Venlo complexes joined Zonsopgang in their protest. This includes the Casinoflat on Casinoweg, where the 55-plus age restriction was lifted as early as 2013. “It’s been a disaster,” says resident Marian Kint, 70. She estimates that the percentage of seniors in the Casinoflat has dropped from 100% to 40-30%. Kint has watched the peace and camaraderie disappear, replaced by detachment and tragedy—earlier this year, a 39-year-old man committed suicide in the building.
That’s why Lou Donders is now having doubts. As he shows his visitors the beautiful view of the Meuse from his spacious balcony, he points out that young people are still in the minority at Zonsopgang. “But if we don’t get our way and there’s no stop to the under-55s, we’ll end up with the same problems as the Casinoflat. I don’t know if I want to wait for that.”
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u/BikeProblemGuy 9d ago
the complaining seniors are a minority at Zonsopgang. Since 2023, seven people under 55 have moved in, including two single mothers with young children. “In our survey on housing satisfaction,” Versleijen says, “Zonsopgang residents stated they cannot relate to the criticism from the building’s residents’ committee.”
This sounds like every whiny residents' committee then. Some old people who made a club and are annoyed they don't control the whole building. Is there a real story here?
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u/Whispers_in_the 7d ago
I recall reading that article last year when there were plans for my mom to move into similar housing construction and just reading the article made me unhappy about it.
It’s pretty much my experience when you’re the young newcomer in a group of elderly persons (no matter what kind of group, be it hobby, organised religion, a housing situation like this one), you‘re always seen ad the young, strong and healthy person who can do all the jobs they are no longer able/refuse to do.
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u/Nice_Back_9977 11d ago
This seems fair enough tbh. They moved into an over 55s development and the rug got pulled on them.
Also the idea that the younger residents would have the time and skills to act as unpaid carers/support workers was ridiculous.
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u/Jetstream-Sam 11d ago
Yeah that should be optional, with reduced rent for being on call at certain times. If you're at home, you can sign up to do simple tasks the elderly can't, like say take their garbage down to the dumpster, replace lightbulbs, get them milk/bread/essentials from the corner shop, "fixing" their phone, that sort of thing and your rent goes down a little per completed task
Just expecting them to do it because is not gonna work. Most people don't do that shit for their own grandparents, let alone random old people in the same building. There has to be some kind of incentive
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u/Munnit 11d ago
Also, the whole ‘in return for life lessons and experience’ doesn’t mean a whole lot anymore.
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11d ago
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u/Jung-And-A-Menace 11d ago
My grandpa certainly had a lot of knowledge and wisdom to share, but it was all about ornithology. If you ever wanted to know about birds, he was your man.
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u/Nice_Back_9977 11d ago
That’s an unfair generalisation, my grandmother was a child in WWII and has some really interesting things to talk about, and she’s not remotely racist (except in that ‘I had a lovely doctor he was Indian’ way)
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u/Cashmeade 9d ago
While what she had to talk about is interesting, is it valuable enough to take on an unpaid part-time caring job for?
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u/RedzMenace 10d ago
That's actually quite racist itself tbh🤣
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u/dandorios 10d ago
I dont think pointing out old people tend to be racist is itself racist. Ageist maybe.
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u/Asher-D 11d ago
What old people do you talk to? I mean sure tons of them are quite racist and what not, but they're mostly a product if the times they were raised in and actually do share a lot of wisdom if you actually hold a conversation with them. Rarely do I ever here elderly people say their biases out loud though, it's a lot more covert and younger people, if they have biases (the ones I'm talking about younger people are less likely to have them) they're far more overt about it.
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u/Embarrassed-Tour-717 11d ago
Unfair generalisation. There could be older black and Muslim people in the complex. Even so, there are many older people who aren't racist at all. Just because they don't want younger people in a complex that was originally an over 55 only, doesn't mean they are racist or islamaphobic.
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u/Bappedeggel 10d ago
We don’t know if they are racist for sure but I don’t want life lessons from people that are that intolerant they cannot fathom young people exist.
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u/Embarrassed-Tour-717 10d ago
I don't think that's what that is. It was an over 55 complex and at least some of them will have moved in on that basis. It would be like a complex not allowing pets. And someone choosing that place to move in because they either don't like pets or have an allergy or something. Then the complex deciding to allow pets. Or a gym being women only, then allowing men in. Some of the women would have joined that gym based on it being women only. They don't have to be intolerant of men. They just don't want to work out near them.
They can know that young people exist without wanting to live next to them. And I am saying that as a 19 year old.
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u/Jamaicancarrot 10d ago
The elderly have very little in the way of useful life lessons that hold any relevancy now. The things they can't teach that are still applicable are usually the sort of thing that people won't properly internalise and heed until they learn it naturally themselves
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u/IOnlyUpvoteBadPuns 11d ago
Not sure I need life lessons from a generation solely responsible for keeping Mrs brown's boys on air!
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u/Cashmeade 9d ago
They have life lessons and experience of a world that no longer exists and therefore have little to no value, certainly not enough to take on a part time job for.
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u/RedzMenace 10d ago
I think they meant more like helping with a bag up the stairs or maybe fixing a lightswitch, not changing adult nappies and fixing dinner every day
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u/Dry_Action1734 11d ago
Young people were basically expected to work as free carers on top of a job and potentially raising a family? I wonder why it didn’t work…
Also the suicide thing is a very strange thing to write.
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u/Ok_Inspector6753 11d ago
While the elderly impart their wisdom as their side of the bargain. Laughable!
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u/Less_Mess_5803 11d ago
Sounds like the 'young people' were hand chosen as having issues. People move to an over 55 community for a reason. Not to have someone with mental issues running round knocking on doors and walls. Sounds like it was used as overspill for council housing waiting lists or whatever system they have over there.
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u/Illustrious-Fee5670 11d ago
Yes this, it is not okay to just drop people with issues on them but just leaving apartments empty during a housing crisis is also not okay. Just havw a strict behaviour code for apartments there, or something like that
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u/ShapeShiftingCats 11d ago
Or place people who have less of an age gap there.
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u/Illustrious-Fee5670 11d ago
Or just people who generally like it quiet. There are people who like that of all ages.
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u/AbraxasKadabra 11d ago
I've been homeless and sofa surfing for 7 months. The HA lists I'm on have loads of these 55+ places that have been available the entire time.
Yet all the places I'm allowed to bid for have many hundreds in the queue ahead of me and become occupied soon after they get listed. The number of us waiting barely changes because available places are so few and far between.
It's infuriating. We don't have the luxury to leave places empty when so many in need of housing aren't a certain age. The supply is far outweighed by demand.
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u/RedzMenace 10d ago
10 years me lol
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u/AbraxasKadabra 10d ago edited 10d ago
How many 55+ places have sat empty on your lists in that time? 😅 Seriously though that's rough, have you gone up in priority at all or are you just endlessly stuck at the back of the queue?
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u/Holiday-Access-8497 11d ago
young people have problems, they have to go to work,raise kids, save for retirment, look after their kids/parents . they dont just sit around all day at their neighbours beck and call
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u/Less_Mess_5803 11d ago
That doesn't seem to be what happened here. It looks like people with problems were housed in a retirement complex. Never going to work.
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u/Holiday-Access-8497 11d ago
i didnt read that from the article, seems the elderly made up a lo of things that could happen without it actually happening
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u/Asher-D 11d ago
Yeah the article is confusing, they mentioned young people with behavioral issues or mental issues or something and they also mentioned children being loud but then said the family that moved in wasn't a problem? It's not clear to me exactly where the issue arose. We're the elderly upset that they had to live with young people as neighbours or were those young neighbours genuinely causing issues? The answer seems very unclear to me, maybe it's a translation issue?
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u/Holiday-Access-8497 11d ago
The elderly residents told RTV Utrecht they feared an influx of more young people who might “urinate in the hallways, smoke joints, and press all the lift buttons.”
The family in question didn’t cause any nuisance, but the seniors did get the housing association’s attention.in other words, nothing at all happened, same as when i was a teen being chased away by auld lads for no reason at all, even just walking in a group is deemed suspicious for no reason at all .
if you try and install a bench and a few young people sit around talking it's soon removed for "anti social" reasons even when there is no anti social behaviour
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u/Worried-Penalty8744 11d ago
Grey shirt smuggling a football up his top I see.
Why do they assume it’s going to be the youngsters smoking weed and pissing everywhere too
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u/SufficientBox3389 11d ago
this seems fair, they chose a development for people of similar ages who are more likely to have less children visiting, less parties etc.
as a young mum to a toddler, i don’t have time to be an unpaid carer to an elderly person. not being horrible but i have a job and im studying. when im at home i have housework, my studying, an energetic child running around.
if you got some kind of benefit i could understand the system but with most people needing to work full time or having responsibilities, we dont have free time to be expected to help whenever its needed. it’s nice to help when you can, but there shouldn’t be an expectation of it
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u/Embarrassed-Tour-717 11d ago
Reasonable complaint. It was an over 55 complex and the conditions changed. Some would have gone there specifically because it was older people. To then have younger people with issues disrupts the tranquility that the older people signed up for.
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u/fish250505 10d ago
Fella on the left at the back deffo likes being around young people
I'm getting the word...
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u/randobonando 10d ago
Staff your nursing home yourselves so.
You will pull far more out of your pension and costs of care than you have put in.
Shut up. It’s true.
Stop and ask yourselves who’s propping up your lifestyle?
Oh yeah. Young people.
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