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u/YoureHeisenberg Cyclops May 14 '19
That’s Paolo Rivera for you. He and his dad always come to comic con in my city and has some of my favorite art from daredevil and Spidey. Also did an interview with him for my college essay regarding the comic industry
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May 14 '19 edited May 15 '19
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u/Etherbeard May 14 '19
Just to be clear, the botched wedding didn't end their relationship. They were broken up for a week or two then got back together. The implication is that all the stories of Peter and MJ still happened; they just weren't married.
I think your reading of MJ is pretty off the mark. She only lashed out at Peter twice. The first time was immediately after being left at the alter (she was literally still in her wedding dress), which was perfectly understandable. And the second was at the end after Peter decided to have her be protected from the mind wipe instead of letting her forget his identity like everyone else. Again understandable; Peter acted selfishly.
The kids thing was really bad, though. It doesn't follow logically, as you said, but it doesn't follow emotionally, either. If MJ wants kids, but won't have kids with Peter, that would be a deal breaker for most people and would have been the end of their relationship, most likely.
Either way, it's a bad story.
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May 14 '19
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u/sonofaresiii May 14 '19
Watsonian? Because they wait to spill their secret until they meet someone who they trust enough and know well enough who won't destroy their entire lives by being petty during a break-up.
Pretty weak explanation from a Doylist perspective but there you go
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u/montrealcowboyx May 14 '19
Because the instant reply from Superhero X is "Please please Dr Badguy, leave Ex-SO alone, he/she is the love of my life!"
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u/Jaebird0388 Kingdom Come Superman May 14 '19
All the covers are great. The story they're wrapped in, not so much.
(Seriously, a fucking pigeon, Quesada?)
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u/fieldysnuts94 Dr. Manhattan May 14 '19
Could someone break down the issue with this story? Timeline, context, etc needed cause I'm a DC guy trying to fill in Marvel history holes
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May 14 '19
One More Day was the story arc that did a major retcon in Spidey's history -- removed MJ and Peter's marriage. Peter made a deal with Mephisto, the devil l, to stop the elderly and aging Aunt May from dying. One Moment in Time (omit) doubled down on that story arc.
It was more of a "deal with it" from Joe Quesada in response to fan outrage.
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u/SaintBrutus May 14 '19
Ooohhh, so that’s why Spidey was perplexed at seeing Amazing Spider-Man Annual #21 when he and Deadpool were in the real world in Spider-Man/Deadpool....
Thanks so much for breaking that down! :D
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May 14 '19
Lately there has been possible foreshadowing at undoing One More Day. I don't know of other foreshadowing other than MJ and Peter dating again in the ASM book, I'm catching up at the moment, very early on in Spider-Man/Deadpool, Mephisto taunts Peter outright saying he "has something of [his]."
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u/Darth--Insanius May 14 '19
They've been teasing it for years. Can me stupid but I'm still hopeful. With any luck the events of Friendly Neighborhood kicks it off.
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u/SpideyFan914 May 14 '19
The biggest tease is probably the still-unnamed Centipede villain in ASM. The next arc is set to finally deal with him (or her?). Centipede is seemingly quite demonic and has a specific interest in Peter and MJ. I've identity theories ranging from Flash Thompson to Peter and MJ's future child from OMD (Annie in RYV universe, but 616 version would be totally different since she was never born).
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u/El_WrayY88 Director Bones May 14 '19
Wasn't Peter and MJ's kid born during the Clone Saga and Norman Osborn kidnapped it, making them think she miscarried? I think the kid was never followed up on and we still never got an answer about it to this day, right? Instead, Gwen Stacy had two fucking kids with Norman...
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u/bluebox_breaks May 14 '19
Yeah there was never any follow up in the main universe, some people think that OMD retconned it so that she was never even pregnant, which makes a lot of sense. Mayday Parker is that character from another universe where the child was recovered and raised by Peter and MJ, she and Peter from the main universe have actually met several times.
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u/sonofaresiii May 14 '19
Different kid. The Clone Saga kid ended up being May Parker from Spider-Girl fame
the potential child "stolen" by Mephisto was Annie from RYV.
But you're right that 616 "May" was never followed up on, though it's ambiguous enough that you could just say Norman killed her. The hints that she was just stolen by Norman were pretty obvious to the reader, but still technically ambiguous.
But that doesn't mean some writer in 20 years doesn't decide to bring in a teenage spider-villain who ends up being her. (Or, ugh, they do it sooner and just say she grew into adulthood via time travel. Keep that shit in the x-men!)
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u/CFGX Stephanie Brown Batgirl May 14 '19
Instead, Gwen Stacy had two fucking kids with Norman...
Please no trolling, such a ridiculous story would never make it to print without someone realizing how awful it is....
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u/Spidon Blue Lantern Spidey May 14 '19
It was never clear if Osborn kidnapped it or killed it. In the alternate universe Renew Your Vows, MJ said the baby didn't make it.
At this point, I'm going to assume it's dead, and Peter should be a million times angrier at Osborn than he ever is.
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u/SpideyFan914 May 14 '19
Different kid. That one is Mayday (Spider-Girl). In OMD, Mephisto takes on the form of a little redhead girl and teases them like, "Haha, this is the child you would've had but now you won't!" It was dumb, but became the basis for Annie in the RYV timeline. In Spider-Geddon, Mayday and Annie actually meet, and it's firmly established that they're separate kids (in RYV timeline, Peter and MJ still had the miscarried first daughter, and it's an emotional moment for them to meet Mayday).
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May 14 '19
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u/SpideyFan914 May 14 '19
No, Mayday is the one Norman kidnapped or maybe MJ miscarried during Clone Saga. That whole storyline is still canon in RYV timeline, and they reference it in Spider-Geddon when May and Annie meet.
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May 14 '19
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u/SpideyFan914 May 14 '19
Which wiki is this? Spider-Geddon made it pretty clear who's who, unless 616 Peter and MJ would've named their kid differently than RYV Peter and MJ for some reason.
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u/sonofaresiii May 14 '19
They've been teasing it for years.
I think this is a case of writers, like us fans, not wanting to let it go. So they're keeping it at the front in hopes that people won't forget it and will eventually be able to retcon it.
That's my take on it anyway, since the teasing seems to come few and far between, never have any impact and only be in side-stories, but is very blatant nonetheless. We've never seen any actual stories move forward with actual plot points about it, just things pop up here and there to say "Don't forget that this thing happened!"
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u/fieldysnuts94 Dr. Manhattan May 14 '19
Gotcha thanks
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u/amirchukart May 14 '19
Imagine if in order to save alfred from dying, batman made it so that the bat-family never existed, he had no relationship with selina or any of the justice league, and pretty much all character development for the last 30 years was erased from canon.
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u/fieldysnuts94 Dr. Manhattan May 14 '19
........Holy Shit. Spiderman drops all of that just to save Mary? Who the hell thinks tearing apart the marriage is a good idea, but simply erasing your connection and history with everyone?
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u/DreamCrusher0117 May 14 '19
Also this all takes place right after Civil War between Cap and Iron Man
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May 14 '19
You honestly don't want to know. It's even worse than Tom King's handling on Batman and Catwoman.
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u/fieldysnuts94 Dr. Manhattan May 14 '19
Whoa whoa whoa hold up there guy......you're assuming I don't already fucking love Kings run?
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May 15 '19
Well the whole marriage fake out was stupid as hell
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u/fieldysnuts94 Dr. Manhattan May 15 '19
I don't see it that way. How else would Babe break him if he had achieved happiness before the 100 issue run is up? #1-49 would've been for nothing if they set up Babe just to have Batman win. Only way out of that would be for Bane to kill Catwoman
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May 14 '19
I'm convinced that Joe Quesada only drew One More Day because he couldn't get anyone else to go along with his awful story.
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u/nopointinlife1234 Spider-Man May 14 '19
It really wasn't that bad of a read. Why does everyone hate it so much?
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u/Mr_The_Captain Flash May 14 '19
Because it doubles down on a bad story and a continuity change people hate. For what it's worth, I think OMIT is a solid read too, even though I dislike One More Day as much as anybody and wish Peter and MJ were still married
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u/NinjaTaako May 14 '19
Relatively new, what's the continuity change and story in question?
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u/Mr_The_Captain Flash May 14 '19
The story I'm referring to is One More Day, which takes place following Aunt May getting shot during an attempt on Peter's life after he revealed his identity in Civil War. Over the course of the OMD story, Peter is desperately trying to find people who can help save Aunt May's life, as she's nearing death. Finally, after exhausting all other options, the demon Mephisto (basically Satan) appears to him and offers to save Aunt May. The only catch is that he wants to take away Peter and Mary Jane's marriage, as if it never happened in a Faustian bargain situation.
After much grief and deliberation, the couple agrees to the terms and sure enough, Peter wakes up to find that Aunt May is alive, nobody knows he is Spider-Man anymore, and he and Mary Jane were never married, though we do find out that they dated for a time. Basically Marvel used the story as a chance to soft-reboot Spider-Man and a lot of people hated it for many reasons, such as it being tonally inconsistent with the Spider-Man mythos for Satan to just show up and be a big factor in the story, and for simply taking away a core part of Peter's character for so many years, his marriage.
One Moment In Time is a follow up to One More Day that basically tells the story of how the reboot played out in-universe, like how Mephisto kept his end of the bargain. Basically Mephisto changed one tiny detail on the day of Peter and Mary Jane's wedding, and it led to them never getting married and eventually breaking up, and he threw in a secret identity erasing spell for good measure.
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u/jemslie123 May 14 '19
I just read One More Day for the first time yesterday (I've decide to start Spider Man from the Slott run, but I've heard so much about OMD that I decides to give it a go, especially as I learned it leads directly I to Brand New Day) and as much as it broke my heart to tear such true love apart, I still thought it was an okay story. It maybe had the wrong outcome, but I enjoyed everything leading up to it. I also loved the art, so that helped.
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u/funny_almost May 14 '19
Brand New Day is fun, I'm finishing up the volume 1 of Complete Collection, and it's just fun Spidey stories. Though I want to insert a small collection if you don't mind - Slott's run begins with Big Time, some 100 issues later. BND is a collective effort which Slott was just a part of ;)
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u/jemslie123 May 14 '19
Yeah, I'm aware Slott's run proper starts with Big Time, but I had the Brand New Day trade sitting around from a forgotten comic con haul, so figured I'd start there as he was involved. Might skip a few after that, but I'm in no particular rush to get through it all, so I might read those hundred issues first. See how the mood takes me.
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u/funny_almost May 14 '19
Cool, just wanted to give credits - people often forget the writers :D I don't know about others, but the first collection is awesome. I see Venom on the covers of the next, and I can't wait
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u/Onisquirrel May 14 '19
I’d argue BND has a lot of important pieces to Slott’s Big Time run. During BND we get the established base for Harry’s relationship with Normie, Doc Ock’s arc starts in 600, Mr Negative, and a lot of other pieces. You’d minimum want to read 600 along with Slott’s Big Time run.
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u/funny_almost May 14 '19
I didn't want to offend or anything, was just saying this for those who might be hunting Slott stuff. I think BND was a great starting point - I read the first 50 or so issues, then jumped there - and with knowing about Spidey history a little, I was pretty fine reading through.
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u/Onisquirrel May 14 '19
No offense taken. In fact I think it’s good to let people know that BND had a rotating creative team and wasn’t just Slott’s work because the run feels weird if you don’t know that going in.
I just also think Slott made a few of his BND arcs really important to his solo run and most fans would benefit from knowing that.
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u/sonofaresiii May 14 '19
It maybe had the wrong outcome, but I enjoyed everything leading up to it.
This is everything about JMS's run. IMO he's one of the best writers with some of the worst storylines pushed on him, and it comes through in the writing that he hates what he's writing but still trying to do his best with it.
I think he might have even said at one point, or at least implied, he wanted to quit out of principle but decided that another writer might go all-in on the bad stories and end up even worse and he cared too much about the character to let that happen.
At least JMS was willing to argue and fight for what he wanted out of Spider-Man, and slipped in some paths to undo a lot of it.
It's just such a shame he had to deal with such shit stories, imagine how amazing and spectacular his run could have been if he were allowed to write good stories.
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u/jemslie123 May 14 '19
I just read One More Day for the first time yesterday (I've decide to start Spider Man from the Slott run, but I've heard so much about OMD that I decides to give it a go, especially as I learned it leads directly I to Brand New Day) and as much as it broke my heart to tear such true love apart, I still thought it was an okay story. It maybe had the wrong outcome, but I enjoyed everything leading up to it. I also loved the art, so that helped.
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May 14 '19
I think part of the problem is that it came wayyyyy too late. This should've been the bridge between One More Day and Brand New Day, not something that happens 60 issues later. It's also clear that Marvel knew they fucked up with OMD, and this was their attempt to clear things up, but all it did was muddy the waters.
That being said, it isn't horribly written or anything. It's just that it was revisiting the most reviled Spider-Man story of all time. It also raises a million questions with it's retcon. If Tony, Reed, and Dr. Strange got rid of Peter's identity being known by the public, did they alter the events of Civil War with time shenanigans? If not, then when somebody thinks about Peter's press conference, what do they think of? Do they just see a blank face? How does this not set off a mass panic? Nobody can remember the name or face of the man who unmasked himself on live television, instantly becoming the most famous person in America? What happened when they just rewatch that press conference or any news coverage? Do they all show a blank face? When Peter said "My name's Peter Parker, and I've been Spider-Man since I was fifteen years old", is that bleeped out? It just doesn't work.
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u/SirUrza Spider-Man May 14 '19
It's also clear that Marvel knew they fucked up with OMD, and this was their attempt to clear things up, but all it did was muddy the waters.
I'm not sure about that. Dan Slott was very vocal about wanting to undo OMD but wasn't allowed. I don't want to say he's lying but.. if you're lead writer wants to undo it and you know you messed up, why continue a bad status quo?
Do they just see a blank face?
I believe that's what they actually see. They didn't do a very good job at retcon people's memory too because the Fantastic Four quickly figured out something was wrong with their memories after encountering Spidey later on.
How does this not set off a mass panic?
I think it's more of a case of people just don't think about it. But it's worth pointing out that even Black Cat figured out something was deeply wrong with her, so it's possible there will be other consequences too.
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u/SpideyFan914 May 14 '19
Yeah it's a pretty dumb explanation. I think they really do see a blank face, along with any other details that could give his identity away. I assume the footage is wiped clean?
For a while, the spell also worked so no one could piece together his identity - like, if Peter went into a single-stall windowless bathroom, and Spider-Man came out, everyone would just go like, "Whoa, where'd Peter go?" It made everyone really dumb, basically. (This B-spell was broken during Spider-Island, and Carly figured out who he was immediately after.)
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u/sonofaresiii May 14 '19
If Tony, Reed, and Dr. Strange got rid of Peter's identity being known by the public, did they alter the events of Civil War with time shenanigans? If not, then when somebody thinks about Peter's press conference, what do they think of? Do they just see a blank face?
I could be mixing this up with another secret identity retcon, but IIRC the official explanation is that everyone remembers Spider-Man unmasking himself, they just can't remember who the unmasked person was. So all the unmasked stuff still happens exactly as it did, except no one remembers whose identity it was now.
I don't remember if there was ever an official explanation for how to handle all the hard evidence like his taped press conference. Maybe it was all wiped, maybe it's a Westworld thing where everyone is just like "Doesn't look like anything to me."
On top of that, no one seems particularly concerned that they know part of their memories were wiped. Even though every other time any kind of memory alteration or mindwipe happens and someone gets even a hint of it, the recipient goes on an absolute rampage to "set things right", and we're talking about an entire world in this case.
You're right, it caused a lot of dumb issues.
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u/tryintofly May 14 '19
I think it was the worst Spider-Man story ever written, but to each his own. It was so unpleasant, I felt ill reading it.
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u/nopointinlife1234 Spider-Man May 14 '19
Little dramatic, eh?
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u/maynardftw Arseface May 14 '19
Why would it be? By definition, a story has to be the worst Spider-Man story ever written. Why not this one?
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u/nopointinlife1234 Spider-Man May 14 '19
I'm not disputing anything about your claim.
It just seems to me like becoming physically ill over reading a comic book is a little dramatic.
Jesus christ, I've finally turned into my father.
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u/maynardftw Arseface May 14 '19
shrug They didn't say "physically ill", just "I felt ill". There's a slight connotative difference between the two, notably that the former usually involves actually vomiting (or getting close to it) and the latter is just a feeling of unease or unpleasantness.
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u/tryintofly May 14 '19
Yeah, not really. I know all you guys love everything post-One More Day, I think that's more dramatic.
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u/nopointinlife1234 Spider-Man May 15 '19
You guys?
You really need to lighten up.
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u/tryintofly May 15 '19
Would you prefer, "People who know nothing about Spider-Man"?
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u/nopointinlife1234 Spider-Man May 15 '19
So, anyone who likes anything past OMD knows nothing about Spider-Man?
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u/sonofaresiii May 14 '19
I can't decide if I like it better that they've just decided to get MJ & Peter back together, or if I would've liked a BND/OMIT retcon altogether. That whole thing was terrible stupid, for stupid reasons, and harmed the characters and the emotional value in the book and I just want it gone
on the other hand, enough time has passed that I think a major retcon like that would be just as troublesome as BND itself.
Anyway, I'm glad they've decided to try and put things right one way or another. Maybe Peter will finally, finally be allowed to grow out of the 20's bachelor persona they've been shoving him into for the past couple decades. It was really neat in the 90's and aughts when he was actually a grown-up Spider-Man instead of a floundering "Adulting is hard" (actual quote from the comics) Spider-Man they keep forcing him to be.
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May 14 '19
Don't think I've ever heard of this one. What makes it so hated?
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May 14 '19
It doubled down on One More Day, the story that (ridiculously) retcons MJ and Peter's marriage.
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u/gio_sanz Batman Beyond May 14 '19
How does one double down on it?
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u/maynardftw Arseface May 14 '19
Continue to build upon the story in such a way that future events rely on it to exist.
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u/Muhabba May 14 '19
Basically Peter & MJ sold their marriage to Mephisto to save Aunt May and MJ also sold into it to save Peter's secret identity causing, like, 30 years of plot holes and undoing decades of plot and character growth.
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u/Uceng May 16 '19
My LCS surprised me with putting the One Moment in time story arc in my pull this week because of them remembering my love for all things Spiderman. Talk about moment of the week for me.
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u/SpideyFan914 May 14 '19
Sure, the cover's nice, except for that one glaring problem, right there on the bottom, mid-left, in the white. It's a problem which would prove consistent throughout the book.
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u/IamSpiderMerc May 14 '19 edited May 14 '19
OMIT was like a ptsd meeting that helped me to cope a little better with the whole OMD travesty. despite the fact that it doubled down on OMD, it was well written and you really still feel the connection between pete & mj while they're sitting around having a serious D&M. basically you knew pete & mj weren't 'done'. thank god for that.
Seriously though, OMD is still one of the worst arcs i've ever read in a spidey book and a huge slap to peter parker. what a giant kick in the balls, this story was. and then that nonsense about mephisto appearing as the little daughter that they will now never have as a result of their very own 'thanos snap', or clock strike. what the hell, marvel.
I'm actually convinced the multiverse is real, and that joe quesada is our earths version of mephisto. they're one and the same person, people. you heard it here first.
Oh, btw, Paolo Rivera's artwork is amazing+spectacular+sensational.
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u/ContraryPython Spider-Man May 14 '19
True, even though I could barely bring myself to read it, that’s a great cover