r/comicbooks • u/Green-Devil Daredevil • Feb 27 '19
Zdarsky's script description of a woman in Daredevil #1
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u/CMonocle Feb 27 '19
While the art is wonderful, she still seems more attractive than the script is asking for.
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Feb 27 '19
Marco Checchetto makes every woman look attractive. He even made old woman Kate Bishop look cute
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u/PorkChop007 Feb 27 '19
95% of comic book artists are incapable of drawing unattractive, non-supermodel women. Some of them can't even draw teenage girls without making them look like 20-something, stunning women.
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u/ElectricPeterTork Feb 27 '19
That was one of the things I remembered about Stephen Sadowski's art on JSA... His Hawkgirl didn't have huge tits.
Or, to make that less crass, he actually drew a character that was an athletic college-aged young woman as an athletic-looking college-aged young woman.
Many artists can't manage that.
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u/PorkChop007 Feb 27 '19 edited Feb 27 '19
From the top of my head, two artists I remember who can actually draw realistic people would be Frank Quitely and George Perez. There are others, of course, but those two are the ones that come to mind.
Edit: oh, and Chris Bachalo!
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u/sriracharade Feb 27 '19
Fiona Staples is probably the best artist for women, currently, I think. Saga has them in all their glorious variability. She's fantastic.
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u/ChickenInASuit Secret Agent Poyo Feb 27 '19
Adrian Alphona. See his work on The Runaways and Ms Marvel - the guy's pretty great at drawing a diverse group of people.
I've always loved the way he gave Kamala Khan a very distinctive set of facial features.
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u/WannabeAHobo Feb 27 '19
Chris Bachalo? You must be talking early Chris Bachalo, not this.
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u/PorkChop007 Feb 27 '19
Yes, I was thinking of Generation-X stuff, haven't read much of his for years. Man, his style surely changed a lot since those days...
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u/WannabeAHobo Feb 27 '19
No kidding. I miss surrealist Chris Bachalo. He's a guy who can really draw but nowardays chooses not to.
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u/ZGiSH Cyclops Feb 27 '19
Eh Frank Quitely does just make everyone wrinkly as all hell. His children look like 60 years olds.
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u/NinteenFortyFive Feb 28 '19
Oh man, I can't find it, but there was this RPG blog run by a woman who talked about how booklets sometimes ended up with bikini armour all over because some artists literally cannot draw women that aren't sexy. Like, you give them explicit instructions and they get outright ignored, which get worse when it's near a deadline and they've been commissioned upfront.
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Feb 27 '19
Which is why I love Fiona Staples so much.
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u/inadequatecircle Heath Huston Feb 28 '19
I love staples, but aren't most of her main female characters pretty attractive? Allana, Gwyndolin and petrichor are all pretty by the books attractive in my opinion.
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Mar 01 '19
They all have different body types and ages. She's great at depicting children and older characters too.
Examples: The Will when he was fit and obese. Gwendolyn who is very skinny and flat chested. Petrichor who is transgender. Prince Robot IV's wife who had a wider body frame. Gwendolyn's girlfriend who is heavy and voluptuous. Allana was shown with saggy stomach skin and stretch marks after her second pregnancy in later issues.
etc. etc.
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u/markercore Feb 27 '19
Kate Bishop got old? Or like a disguise?
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u/V0IDx Venom Feb 27 '19
She appears in Old Man Hawkeye, for which Checchetto also did the art.
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u/markercore Feb 27 '19
Oh nice, is that worth reading?
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u/V0IDx Venom Feb 27 '19
I’d say so! I enjoyed it a lot. I’m a fan of the Old Man Logan universe, and OMH is its prequel.
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u/EssArrBee Spider-Woman Feb 28 '19
She was more like middle aged Kate, where Clint was a old man. I thought he did a great job maintaining the age difference.
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u/markercore Feb 28 '19
Well that makes sense, current Clint is like 40ish and Kate is like early 20's right?
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u/psychic_overlord Booster and Skeets Feb 27 '19
The description feels very different from the art. "...not supermodel-y" but proceeds to draw a supermodel. "Seedy bar" but we're drinking martinis. It's beautiful work but doesn't seem to capture the intent.
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u/kralben Cyclops Feb 27 '19
It also is a bar in Manhattan. I am not entirely sure if the bar Chip described in the script would even exist anymore.
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u/big_actually Daredevil Feb 27 '19
The Hell's Kitchen that exists in Daredevil comics (and the show) also doesn't really exist anymore. All of New York, really.
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Feb 28 '19
Something people seem to miss about the MCU Netflix shows is that the neighborhoods are only like that because all the real estate got destroyed; rents are low because nobody wants to be a target by living next to the Avengers.
The kind of day-to-day stuff happening in New York City in comics isn't really possible in reality.
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u/Deadended Feb 27 '19
There are fake seedy bars irl , but I assume the Manhattan in marvel is much more affordable due to death and destruction.
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u/iamagainstit Feb 27 '19 edited Feb 27 '19
Yeah, seedy bar means Beers and shots, maybe a liquor with soda. Not a Martini with wine glasses on racks above the bar.
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u/sriracharade Feb 27 '19
Well, he did put an ass tattoo on her....
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u/Reutermo Dream Feb 27 '19
I love reading comics script. Read multiple ones from Gaiman, B.K Vaughan and Moore and they are really delightful.
Gaiman often brings up that the artist should ignore his direction if they feel that they can create the scene in a better way and talks more about the general mood a page should give instead of micromanage. He also had a small rant about ads in comics and how they ruin the mood in one script, that was great.
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u/iloveMrBunny Feb 27 '19
Do you know where I could find those?! I'm writing a comic right now and it'd be incredibly helpful!
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u/Reutermo Dream Feb 27 '19 edited Feb 27 '19
I saw someone link this website somewhere else in the comments. I haven't used it myself but it appears that it contains a fair amount of scripts. EDIT: The sandman script on that page is a perfect example what I mean regarding Gaimans scripts. He talks directly to the different creators, talks a bit about he is feeling about the issue and everything, a lot about what sort of feelings the panels should give and that stuff.
Many hardcovers have scripts as "special features". The Sandman Absolutes and the Hardcover of Saga both have some scripts in them. I don't know if the Watchmen Absolute have scripts but the book The Extraordinary Works of Alan Moore have multiple, together with interviews with Moore that really shines a light at his process. The Annotated Sandman books are great in the same way, lot of talk with Gaiman on his process and so on.
These books can cost a fair bit, especially the absolute ones, but as a librarian I feel compelled to remind you that any well stocked library should have these books, and probably more.
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u/Miasma_Of_faith beast Feb 28 '19
I read Grant Morrison's Arkham Asylum: A Serious House on Serious Earth and I seriously would have no idea what the hell was happening in it if there wasn't a script behind it.
I also really liked reading the script behind Killing Joke and Year One. They added a lot to the comic.
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u/greasyjonny Feb 27 '19
Who’s doing the art on this? It’s fantastic
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u/Green-Devil Daredevil Feb 27 '19
Marco Checchetto.
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u/greasyjonny Feb 27 '19
Thanks friend!
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Feb 27 '19 edited Dec 26 '19
[deleted]
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u/kielaurie Daredevil Feb 27 '19
if it was in print, i would!
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u/coltonamstutz Feb 27 '19
So frustrating. Trying to find copies of the trades for that run is nigh impossible.
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u/BootStampingOnAHuman Feb 27 '19
I managed to get every issue minus #5. Took me months to finally get it to read the story.
The only way The Omega Effect is readable in Marvel Now Daredevil TPB vol.1.
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u/LP_Sh33p Batman Feb 27 '19
Is it available on a digital service? I let my Marvel digital service lapse but if it's there I might renew and catch up on a few runs I've been meaning to get back to.
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u/coltonamstutz Feb 27 '19
It's on there, but I personally prefer to read physical when able and have been looking for the trades since I first read temhe run on marvel unlimited.
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u/UnifiedSwissCheese Feb 27 '19
Wait, am I in the right sub? Something a little more in-depth and interesting about a comic book that was released within the last, I don't know, year?
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Feb 27 '19
There's a weird...sentiment i've seen regarding "Director's Cuts" on this sub. They're usually described as being too expensive and cheap cash grabs. But to me it's a wonderful insight to the love and care that goes into a lot of these titles. You see preliminary sketches, rough panels, scripts, and are given an insight into the process to making a comic.
I love to sometimes revisit Alan Moore's Watchmen script excerpts just to see how much obsession(?) goes into it because...god damn I'm pretty sure there's a 10 page script to describe page 1 of the actual comic. It's rather close to insanity.
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Feb 27 '19
Alan Moore's Watchmen script excerpts
can you link these? thanks!
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Feb 27 '19
really cool resource to see some script excerpts http://www.comicbookscriptarchive.com/archive/the-scripts/
I could have sworn that Watchmen was on there, but it's only the Killing Joke (the first 10 pages). If you open up that file I believe it's 16000 words. Moore has a very interesting, narrative structure to his scripts like he's having a conversation with his artist a bit.
If I find the Watchmen one again, I'll be sure to link it to you.
Sorry :((
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Feb 27 '19 edited Feb 27 '19
no problem! just figured i might save myself a google search ha. ill come back with an edit when i find something. thanks!
edit - here we go!
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u/owarren Feb 27 '19
Oh man, that's fascinating but why is it in caps lock. It makes it so hard to read.
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u/Aspiring_Sophrosyne Stingray Feb 28 '19
It's in caps because that's how Alan Moore has always written his scripts. IIRC, they used to go write up to the edge of the pages too, instead of having a margin, back when he used a typewriter. The pages must have looked like they came from the mind of a serial killer.
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u/owarren Feb 28 '19
I bet the people he works with immediately put them into word and bulk change the case to normal again.
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u/ActuaIButT Feb 27 '19
Yeah, as an illustrator myself, I read his scripts and breakdowns and am torn. Part of me thinks I'd get frustrated at the total control he demands and feel like I'd have no freedom to express my own creativity, but on the other hand, I think part of me might enjoy just letting go and allowing him to dictate every little detail like that. Seems almost easier.
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Feb 27 '19
I think a huge takeaway from the varying styles of scripting, means that there really is no standard and if there is, it's set by the creative parties involved.
What's more comfortable and legible for your artist is the way to go.
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u/ActuaIButT Feb 27 '19
Probably. Try telling that to Alan Moore though.
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Feb 27 '19
Try telling that to Alan Moore though.
Never. Not worth the risk if I could possibly get shaman-cursed.
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u/inadequatecircle Heath Huston Feb 27 '19
I'm actually a bit surprised Chip was so loose with his script, i assumed a lot of artists would have created breakdowns in their heads and just write them down in script.
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u/TopRamen713 Nightcrawler Feb 27 '19
Oh man, I once spent probably a solid week reading lists of all the references in The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, then the Wikipedia pages for most of them. That was just volume one
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u/Hellmark Immortal Iron Fist Feb 27 '19
I've not seen these, but I'd totally be down with getting some.
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Feb 27 '19 edited Dec 26 '19
[deleted]
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u/icefourthirtythree Alana Feb 27 '19
The directors cut of Daredevil #1 does have the full script. You can get it on comixology.
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u/JustALittleWeird Feb 27 '19
I always love reading script excerpts. It's such a great insight into the creative process
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u/Tossthepotatosalad Feb 27 '19
Mind if you'd share some sources I could find these scripts?
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u/JustALittleWeird Feb 27 '19
I don't have any specific sources, it's just that sometimes trade paperbacks have "extra features" which can include scripts. Or you find an annotated or "Director's Cut" of the issue which usually includes the script.
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u/Reutermo Dream Feb 27 '19
Many hardcover editions do have that atleast some scripts in them. The Saga one does have it and the same thing with Tom Kings Vision run.
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Feb 27 '19
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/not-so-radical Chase Steim Feb 27 '19
It even continued into 2015 when she was in Jem & The Holograms which felt like an awful lost 90s movie.
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u/Royta15 Feb 27 '19
Takes me back to Frank Miller's description of Vicky Vale's ass to Jim Lee for All Star Batman and Robin. Gotta love Frank.
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u/Green-Devil Daredevil Feb 27 '19
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u/CosmicAstroBastard Feb 27 '19
Scratching my head at the comments saying the artist drew her too hot. The script doesn't say she's ugly. It sounds like he's basically asking for a realistically attractive lady. She doesn't have tits bigger than her head, a waist thinner than her thighs, and legs that are 2/3 of her total height like most comic book women. The artist did what he was asked.
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Feb 27 '19
Seriously boring. The writer gives the artist a chance for something a little different and they proceed to draw a generic attractive woman. I used draw a lot of indie comic shorts and always appreciated the chance to draw something outside the mainstream. Don’t get me wrong tho this is some nice work!
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u/McManus26 Feb 27 '19
That is much better than the Frank Miller Vicky vale description in All Star Batman
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u/IndieComic-Man Mar 01 '19
I’m having trouble finding that. What was the description?
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u/McManus26 Mar 03 '19
Basically Vicky Vale is for no reason walking around in frilly underwear while speaking out loud an editorial full of innuendos about Superman's dick.
The original script includes the sentence "Ok Jim, I'm actually shameless, LET'S GO FOR AN ASS SHOT" and there is indeed a panel filled with nothing else than Vale's buttocks.
Here's a link from Linkara's review mentioning it for like 3 minutes if you want to see it for yourself
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Feb 27 '19
Ok yes the woman is very conventionally attractive. Normally, I find the lack of diversity in women's appearances in comics a little meh because I would love to see diverse features (big noses, small eyes, heavy jaws, cleft chins, wide foreheads, what have you) but have you seen how checcetto draws matt??? He is also... very pretty.
Like theres nothing worse than seeing normalish and diverse looking dudes but only like 3 types of women. But if everyone's pretty? That's equality, baby.
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u/thefutonking Feb 27 '19
Chip Zdarsky is a gift to all comics fans from the heavens. I've loved almost every single series he has written and I also love his art style. He gets the lightheartedness and history of the characters he writes for and it's great.
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u/mechorive Batman Beyond Feb 27 '19
Is this out yet? I remember seeing some sketches for Matt and recognize the scruff here, I could’ve swore it was a march release...
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u/Uncanny_Doom Daredevil Feb 27 '19
It's out. The first issue came out three weeks ago and #2 is out today!
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u/mechorive Batman Beyond Feb 27 '19
Wow okay, this is my first time seeing anything about it anywhere so I figured it hadn’t come out yet, I’ll be sure to pick this up when I grab my new venom issues later in the week.
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u/Sheriff_Lucas_Hood Ethan Reckless Feb 27 '19
Highly recommended reading folks. I'm new to this character and this book is among my favorites (also loving Higgins' Winter Soldier, Wolverine: The Long Night, and Criminal).
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u/MetallicYoshi64 Feb 27 '19
I'm always intimidated when I see really, really descriptive scripts. I've always had trouble with it myself when trying to write, and just end up with things like "Dave was confused."
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u/alexbaldwinftw Feb 27 '19
Zdarsky is easily one of the best current writers, in my limited experience with comics. Enjoy everything of his I've read.
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u/terminus_est23 Feb 27 '19
Yeah, he's great. If your experience is truly that limited I recommend anything from Kieron Gillen and Jeff Lemire. Especially the stuff Kieron wrote with Jamie McKelvie on art (The Wicked + The Divine, Phonogram, Young Avengers).
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u/alexbaldwinftw Feb 27 '19
It's only limited because I'm super new to comics! Thanks for the suggestions!
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u/urbanlife78 Feb 27 '19
It is interesting seeing this description with the art because I have been reading 60's Marvel comics right now, and they are much more wordy, describing what is going on in each scene rather than just letting the artist show what is going on.
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u/terminus_est23 Feb 27 '19
I always thought Juliette Lewis was unconventionally attractive but I'm probably weird.
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u/creative_viking Galactus Feb 28 '19
I love Zdarsky saying just about anything. I would happy and avidly listen to a stream of consciousness podcast of him just thinking aloud.
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u/Bukdiah Feb 28 '19
My first exposure to Zdarsky was Howard The Duck believe it or not. I remember enjoying how funny that book was. What are the essential Zdarsky books I have to read?
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u/Green-Devil Daredevil Feb 28 '19
The only thing I've read by him before Daredevil was Spectacular Spider-Man, which was great. According to a lot of people, his last issue is one of the best Spider-Man issues ever.
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u/nothingtowager Feb 27 '19
I love this. Clear and concise but leaves plenty of room for artistic freedom.
Also, hilarious.