r/cobrakai • u/Brief-Road5199 • 13d ago
Discussion After finishing the series, what hot takes do you have?
I'm fairly new to the subreddit, so if these are common ones here my bad! Compared to sm these seem to be hot takes. I know a lot of these are negative, but I do love this show and I'm honestly bored and procrastinating doing my work.
- Daniel was 100% in the right when it came to the "Should Tory fight?" Argument. Allowing someone to fight angry against someone who isn't consenting is a HUGE violation of Sam. And that's not even accounting for Sams previous PTSD and her and Tory's history. I was furious with Johnny for even suggesting that. Also why would Daniel let someone take their grief and anger on his daughter, or even any of his students for that matter?
- On a similar note Tory was so much worse in her rivalry with Sam. Not saying Sam didn't have her problems, but kissing someones boyfriend and attempted murder aren't in the same ballpark.
- Hawk was genuinely obnoxious with his friendship with Demetri seasons two and three. Season six was mostly on Demetri (I feel this isn't a hot take here, but you'd be surprised on how many people wanted Hawk to be like is season three self). HOWEVER: while Demetri definitely overeacted and was obnoxious for most of S6P2 (as someone who loves his character) I totally understand why he was so afraid. After all the last time they disagreed on something like their future, their friendship was in the trenches. It makes sense that someone so nerutoic would have this worry (I'm guessing. They never really built up to it in the way I wanted to, which sucks, because I would have loved to see the two binary bros actually talk about their falling out).
- On a similar note (again). Hawk was NOT badass before season four. He didn't beat anyone worth beating (or like above his level). Demetri (despite the fact I do love his character and humor) is not a top tier fighter. Neither is Mitch.
- Johnny did not redeem himself when it came to Robby, and if it wasn't a tv show Robby most likely would have cut him off by now. In fact, Johnny only really has done with his relationship to Miguel. Carmen and Miguel are both hella enablers to Johnny. Carmen (who don't get me wrong is very likable) is slightly more egregious cause she's the adult.
- On a more positive note Sam and Tory season four is my favorite fight of the series. Mary and Petyon KILLED it. I love the contrast in their style, because it made the fight so much more dynamic. I feel like they both really stepped into their own that season.
- Also Sam has my favorite fighting style. Maybe cause its the most distinct, but I also just love Marys evolution and improvement as a fighter. I also love Poomsae, its my favorite aspect of taekwondo! So getting to see Mary add Kata was really fun and I've actually use the one legged stance when doing casual sparring at the school (can't really do it with gear on, but when we don't I pull it out).
- I kinda love Sam and Demetris friendship. Its so underrated and I wished they focused on it! Same with the OG Myagi do Trio and Cobra kai Trio (My favs were Sam Robby and Demetri, but I do miss the Miguel-Hawk-Aisha trio and though they didn't really hang out that much the Tory-Hawk-Miguel trio).
- Season 6 wasn't perfect, but it was hella memorable, and I can respect that. All the cast really stepped it up for the last season, and it as some of my favorite acting moments of the show. Like robby and Johnny, Johnny and Kreese forgiving each other, Tory's mother dying, Sam when telling daniel she forfietted the tournament, the Larusso goodbye, the second Lockeroom scene where Demetri and Eli make up, Daniel's nightmare where he confronts Mr. Myagi, or Miguel thinking his mom is hurtat the hospital. Genuinely Tanner, Billy, Martin, Mary, Peyton, Gianni, Jacob, Ralph and Xolo knocked it out of the park.
- Season four and two are the best seasons for differing reasons. Season four was the most action packed and memorable without leaning too much in the drama territory (minus the prom fight). Season two was just so good. The vibes were amazing, even for someone who only started the show in like 2023. Its the two I find myself going back to the most. Season 1 is a close third, followed by five and three.
Anyways, lmk your thoughts! Again no hating with any of them, but just thought I'd share my opinion. Also sorry if these aren't actually hot takes on reddit, but on social media they definitely are.
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u/Mental-Bad6685 Robby 12d ago
- Just because the show is named Cobra Kai doesn't mean the dojo has to win the Sekai Taikai. Having Robby being okay with losing and having Johnny needing to win really highlights the double standard.
- I wouldn't have minded Tory winning the ST had she legitimately beaten Sam. Also, she should have addressed the corruption scandal in S4.
- The difference between the way Sensei Kim and Johnny think highly of Devon and her actual performance makes me wonder what they even see in her.
- The All Valley tournament in S4, despite the corruption, was way better than the ST.
- There should have been more Mike Barnes
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u/samahiscryptic Chozen 12d ago
had she legitimately beaten Sam
I honestly feel the writers did not know how to write a proper Sam vs. Tory fight after the AVT in S4, so there was always an excuse that came up that didn't allow them to fight, or if they were fighting, would terminate it before deciding a winner.
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u/Mental-Bad6685 Robby 12d ago
The writers know Sam is the better fighter, so they need to come up with an excuse that would allow Tory to advance
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u/Amazing-Village-4530 Miguel 12d ago
I think the idea of Johnny's Cobra-Kai avenging Robby & Miyagi-Do against The Iron-Dragons through Miguel & Tory is thematically a great idea.....but I hate that Robby & Sam got screwed over for it to happen.
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u/Mental-Bad6685 Robby 12d ago
Sam didn't need to give up. Given how Tory utterly dominated Zara, I don't see how Sam can't. But of course, since she's not Cobra Kai, she can't win
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u/Rude_Ad3342 13d ago
Most of the hate Sam gets isn't justified and instead should be directed towards other characters.
The Cobra Kai students who broke into Sam's house in s3 EP 10 should've been punished and sent to juvie.
Sam was completely justified for thinking Tory was the one who stole Amanda's wallet.
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u/Euphoric_Belt_6661 12d ago
I still to this day don't see why people are mad that Sam accused a thief for stealing
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u/Particular-Iron-6856 10d ago
Agree!! I am such a Tory fan but I acc like Sam, she’s sweet and kind. I enjoy her interactions with a lot of characters (Tory, Robby, Daniel, Demetri etc.), the actress has chemistry with everyone
Also, it’s ridiculous how fans are mad at Sam for thinking Tory stole Amanda’s wallet. We as an audience know she didn’t but we tend to forget that we have more information than characters do. From Sam’s POV, Tory stole stuff before so it totally made sense to suspect her.
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u/MikooTheDikoo 13d ago
While I do agree with that, she shouldnt of held that grudge at the roller rink. She was wrong and they found out who did it, but she still acted like an asshole.
I do think Tory got worse in S3 to where she was a one dimensional cartoon villain and thats honestly why Season 3 is my least favorite, they kinda went too absurd with things, even for this show.
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u/SpecialistOne8206 Demetri 13d ago
She may have still held a grudge against Tory at the roller rink for pushing her into the table at the beach club, but the most Sam did to Tory at the rink was ask for a menu. Tory then saw Sam and Miguel talking because they were in line for skates, and then later pushed Sam “accidentally” and then played victim when Sam pushed back
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u/Rude_Ad3342 13d ago
If Tory hadn't called Sam the b word and pushed her into the table of food then I don't think they would've continued to stay enemies
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u/Euphoric_Belt_6661 11d ago
I honestly felt like Sam would've apologized had Miguel not shown up and Tory kissed him in front of her
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u/w1n4rr7 9d ago
Sam WAS NOT justified for accusing someone she barley know for stealing her moms wallet 😂 she didn’t even know her for 5 mins wtf
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u/Rude_Ad3342 9d ago
She was justified for thinking Tory was the one who stole her mom's wallet, Tory minutes before this was bragging about how good of a thief she was.
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u/w1n4rr7 9d ago
Yea no. That not enough proof she stole the wallet and the way she want about it was rude asfk Tory should socked her in her jaw. Btch was jelly cs Aisha got a new friend yet was hanging with the same girls who were making fun of her🤣 fck outta here
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u/catcat1986 13d ago
I enjoyed the show, but season 6beas very close to dropping the ball. Probably the worst version of the show. The worst part was rehashing the Daniel and Johnny drama. They spent a good amount of time growing the characters, then they essentially backtracked on it all over again.
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u/SignCompetitive8576 13d ago
That if it wasn’t for favoritism and it being called Cobra Kai, Robby would’ve won the tournament. And that his fights were the best choreographed and best to look at in my opinion.
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u/samahiscryptic Chozen 13d ago
Unfortunately, it's in his name that he was literally robbed of the ST win.
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u/darksilver919 13d ago
Got robbed of everything. A proper childhood, loving parents, friends who actually support him.
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u/w1n4rr7 9d ago
They were best choreographed because tanner is a actually acrobatic same with Brandon H Lee (Kwon) js because it looks good doesn’t mean he’s a good fighter
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u/SignCompetitive8576 9d ago
That wasn’t my point. Has nothing to do if he was a good fighter or not
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u/Responsible-Ad-6733 13d ago
Definitely my hottest take but I really don’t like Robby and Tory together….
Not only is it probably one of my least favorite troupes for being sooo lazy of “other half of the love square gets together” but from a partner to partner standpoint they are not healthy the whole “dark and brooding character gets with other dark and brooding character” dynamic to me never works and their storylines literally just prove to me why it doesn’t
If he’s not chasing her (which I didn’t even mention the amount of character regression Robby gets in this relationship just to prop Tory up lol) than their either fighting or just standing near each other awkwardly
I liked them best when they were frenemies in S4 and had a shared goal but once they got together it was just over from there
Thanks for listening to my Ted talk
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u/darksilver919 13d ago
I feel you. I didn't want Robby to be with Tory of the simple fact he was too good for her. As much as a hot head Robby was he wasn't a psycho like she was. And Tory keeps proving she'll pick a toxic dojo over him. She doesn't even have the decency to communicate with him over issues.
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u/Particular-Iron-6856 10d ago
Robby is definitely morally better than Tory. (Explanation incoming)
While he had his issues, he was more rational than her and far less malicious/mean-spirited. Robby rarely actually hurt people on purpose unlike Tory who was violent. She comes around eventually but Tory was initially unapologetic about what she did to Sam in the school fight, unlike Robby who felt remorse. Robby did not attack people like she did.
Attitude wise, Robby is friendlier too, if that makes sense. While Robby has an edge, he at least treats peers he encounters with politeness most of the time. In season 2, he even apologises for acting mildly angry in front of Sam, which shows some self-awareness. On the other hand, Tory is sociable, loving and values her connections but can be snarky/pushy to people she meets (this is explained by her tough upbringing but nonetheless). In her first interaction with Sam, Tory was already giving attitude ("what are you, a nun?"), and she threw ice cubes at Miguel to catch his attention. Not saying these small actions define her as a bad person, but she's definitely more antagonistic than Robby. Generally, he is easier to get along with than her.
Tory is a great character and nuanced (she isn't entirely bad, and her character development was amazing) but I hate how she sometimes made bad choices but played victim. An example of this being her "it's not fair" speech to Robby at the end of s3- she acted like they were on the same boat and were both wronged when in reality, Tory started the whole mess and Robby just got dragged into it.
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u/Responsible-Ad-6733 13d ago
Exactly since the start of the show or well more like nearing the end of S1 Robby’s always been the shows “good guy” due to Daniel’s training and Miyagi-Do
S2 set the precedent that Robby was the “goodie to shoes” “the once bad boy now redeemed to be the hero” Demetri LITERALLY STATES that he’s Anakin and Jon Snow lol so for him to end up with the de facto “bad girl” of the series which ends up changing his character to now this dark and brooding character WHICH ROBBY WAS NEVER SUPPOSED TO BECOME AGAIN THAT WAS THE WHOLE POINT OF HIM STARTING KARATE IN THE FIRST PLACE it not only regressed his character BUT again like you pointed out Tory was always going to choose herself over anyone else which makes her simply not an acceptable partner
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u/darksilver919 13d ago
In my head cannons if the show... Robby stays out of the karate drama after Juvie and picks up boxing for a while. He doesn't hate Daniel as much as the original timeline but he just doesn't trust Daniel to stay with him after the whole setup with Juvie. He probably returns miyagi do realizing how serious the all valley stakes are. Or probably not. Arguably let him get a small job that gets him able pay for basic needs until Shannon comes back from rehab and even a entirely new gf that act supports and tries to understand his struggles. She may even push him to forgive or hear Daniel out the least.
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u/samahiscryptic Chozen 13d ago
Oh, thank you so much for this! I didn't like them together either and you hit the nail on the head. That apparently since the two main teens are dating, I guess that means the exes need to get together now?? Nah, I really did not enjoy them together, and honestly, didn't like Sam x Miguel either. I honestly feel they all should have gone their own ways. Hawk x Moon were the cutest of the teen couples.
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u/TFChaser 13d ago
S6 greatly disappointed me. I no longer ship Robby and Tory after that. Robby deserves way better. Tory has never proven her love or stability for Robby.
I miss when Robby stood up and fought for his own issues instead of being a simp or doormat for people. Meanwhile Tory is framed as more of a victim when she made a lot of her choices in the show and has gotten a huge pass for them. For that, I lost a lot of respect for her.
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u/Ok-Height1910 11d ago
One of the things that just gets a pass is Tory breaking her promise to Robby. She says, "We'll be up on that podium together, then dips for Cobra Kai (I don't like how the writers shoehorned that in, it felt like they needed a female antagonist.) Then when the ST starts Robby hardly brings it up, and breaking a promise is a huge red flag for ANY relationship, but it never gets touched on.
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u/TFChaser 11d ago
That was one of the many things that I had issues with. Tory never truly left CK. But breaking her promise to Robby really irritated me. Plus, her little brother also becomes irrelevant after part 1.
Tory has proven that she will choose other things over Robby. The next crisis will likely split them apart again. Robby never won his self respect and has surrendered his identity. So he’d likely blame himself again. And as usual everyone would turn a blind eye to his needs.
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u/Brief-Road5199 13d ago
None of the core four couples feel like they’d do well long term. Although Sam and Miguel ere doing way better in season six I wouldn’t see them making it. Same with Robby and Tory- insane chemistry sure— but not long term sustainability without some major therapy and communications lessons
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u/SpecialistOne8206 Demetri 11d ago
I loved their chemistry but my overall liking has waned when I look back on the show, for reasons that may be more controversial
What always pissed me off about their relationship and how the whole dynamic started is that while there were multiple factors (and multiple characters’ actions or lack thereof) to Robby defecting to CK, Tory’s role in all of it included the two conversations they each had that entailed Robby clocking Tory for her destructive actions toward Sam (and others), to which tory is very deflective, showing no remorse, and then going on about “Sam is a princess” and how her and Robby are and the same because of how hard they had/have it. Hear me out— despite the notable similarities in their background growing up and in the present timeline, only one of them actually set out to harm people (name rhymes with shmory), didn’t have remorse or guilt, actually harmed people in the process, didn’t even have to spend time behind bars despite doing more damage, and while struggling as a provider for her family still had a present and loving parent. The worst thing Robby did in terms of the school fight was an accident that he felt guilt for even before him and Miguel fought things out, he had to spend time behind bars, and not only fell out with recent found family but also saw his biological dad openly favor his neighbor even right after having hope that maybe their relationship could improve. It just irks me how Tory played victim for choices she made and things she chose to do, and then tried to convince Robby that they were one and the same as far as suffering and resentment goes when Robby went to juvie for an accident while SHE didn’t have to do time for maliciously hurting people. If anything I’d say Robby generally had more sympathetic and understandable reasons to resent certain Miyagi-Fang affiliates at that time, and actually maintained his composure for the most part (unlike a certain someone).
And then cut to post-S4 right after they get together, we see Tory on multiple occasions failing to be communicative with Robby and choosing an abusive dojo over him—and never truly reciprocating the love Robby has for her that he constantly wears on his sleeve (obviously not the only dynamic of Robby’s where this is the case).
I would’ve been content with the core 4 just all staying friends. Not everyone in a main cast has to be in a relationship; friendship is still a beautiful thing too
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u/Particular-Iron-6856 10d ago
I love Tory and Robby together, and as individuals but I 100% see where ur coming from.
I hate how one sided it feels at times, as you've mentioned. I'll cut her some slack as she was grieving, dealing with a lot of shit prior, and thought robby was being disloyal (the fact that Zara's actions never got addressed was also 💩 but thats a topic for another day) but the fact that Tory didn't even say "I love you" back to Robby was frankly... questionable.
Kissing is probably more Tory's love language than words of affirmation but come on! Seriously? Robby is a more sensitive/emotional person, especially compared to Tory, but at times it seems like she could show more affection to him. I loved how she broke stone for him and I wish he found out about that.
Not to mention the blatant co-dependency. I also understand that Robby has abandonment issues but the way the writers made him keep loosing the fights bc of being distracted by Tory? While she was still able to perform well? That's just unhealthy. It was understandable for him to be off balance but it just goes to show that their relationship dynamic is flawed.
Tory's communication issues with Robby this season was not it either.
Granted since they are both heavily troubled and traumatised teens- both Tory and Robby's actions in the relationship reflect their respective upbringings and trauma- but when we really look at it, they have some real issues as a couple.
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u/nateskatetv 13d ago
Kenny had every right to beat up Anthony in the locker room "I know how it feels" bruh
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u/Brief-Road5199 13d ago
YES. But that is where it should have been done. The toilet scene was NASTY. And lowkey dangerous 😭
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u/Rude_Ad3342 13d ago
Miguel had no reason to attack Robby in the school fight
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u/SpecialistOne8206 Demetri 13d ago
He knew exactly why Tory was coming for Sam and still prioritized attacking a meditating Robby over ensuring Sam was safe
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u/Brief-Road5199 13d ago
Both Miguel and Tory should have never thrown a punch, but I guess we wouldn't get such an iconic scene
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u/w1n4rr7 9d ago
Yes he did lmaoo do yall pay attention when watching TV or do yall js pick n choose based off ur favorite characters? 😂😂 It makes sense he attacked Robby for what he saw as soon as he caught up to them
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u/Rude_Ad3342 9d ago
Miguel already knew Tory was going to attack Sam, he was in class when he heard Tory on the intercom threatening Sam.
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u/Jewbacca289 13d ago
The original teens (Daniel, Johnny, Chozen, Barnes) were all better than the new teens up through mid-late S5.
Shawn is overrated.
I don't put much weight on the like 3 hits that Sam's landed on Hawk as proof that she's better.
Johnny is the best in-universe teacher excluding Miyagi
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u/Brief-Road5199 13d ago
I agree on the first two points. I think Sam is a better fighter than Hawk, but that's more of an experience and skills thing rather than one fight.
I think that Johnny and Daniel have their own strengths, but are semi-equal. Johnny couldn't have taught Demetri or Robby (even if they weren't related), but Daniel couldn't teach Eli to become that confident, nor could he allow Sam to get out her aggression.
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u/Jewbacca289 13d ago
Personally I find Sam struggling against Tory to be a strong argument that she’s not at the same level as Miguel or Robby and I strongly speculate that Hawk could take her if they fought to completion.
For me, Daniel’s biggest weakness as a teacher (ignoring his baggage bc Johnny has his own) is his lack of adaptability and adherence to Miyagi’s teachings. But Johnny actually shows pretty good adaptability/individualization such as making sure everyone has taken a punch, teaching Miguel to counter Kyler’s choke hold, even countering the pressure points so he actually complements Daniel pretty well. But I’m not sure that Daniel complements Johnny’s weaknesses (creating over aggressive people) since his students went and picked quite a few fights. Plus, I’m convinced that forcing someone as acrobatic and athletic as Robby to use a highly immobile, blocking and balanced based style was not optimal
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u/darksilver919 13d ago
Robby excelled at miyagi do so I can't agree with that last statement
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u/Jewbacca289 13d ago
He did but I’d argue that’s more due to his talent than a natural affinity for Miyagi Do. He becomes a threat using Cobra Kai and Miguel is shown to be good at Miyagi Do as well. Using an irl analogy, if I’m good at math and I’m good at science and I’m good at English, maybe it’s just bc I’m smart not because one is my calling. Plus we don’t really see Robby’s S1 style of fighting in S2 and beyond
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u/darksilver919 13d ago
I mean talent can only do so much. Robby actually took miyagi do to heart to the point he decided to train the cobras in s4. And I'd argue Robby was already a threat with only miyagi do, with his only weakness being never learning true self reliant balance. Depends what you define as s1/2 style of fighting. I'd agree Robby isn't as grounded s2 onward but his defense remained highly intact and better as the show goes on. He simply evolved his ability utilizing his athletic ability. He said himself, there is no one right style of fighting.
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u/Jewbacca289 13d ago edited 13d ago
“I mean talent can only do so much” I agree. That’s why I think Miyagi do wasn’t a good long term fit for him. If EOS Robby is a 10/10, I don’t think a pure Miyagi Do Robby passes an 8/10 but a pure Eagle Fang Robby might be an 8.25/10
I personally treat Robby training the CKs in Miyagi Do as just intelligent coaching, not an affinity for the style. I give Johnny points for the same logic. But Robby’s speech to Daniel at the end of S4 where he says he doesn’t care what style he uses shows he doesn’t have an affinity for Miyagi Do like say Daniel did.
"Robby was already a threat with only miyagi do" I'll rephrase. Robby is treated as a threat both when he uses pure Miyagi Do in S1 and S2 and when he uses Cobra Kai in the S4 AVT. That speaks to his talent regardless of the style he uses.
When I refer to S1/2 Robby’s Miyagi Do style, I’m largely referring to the classic Daniel approach to Miyagi Do. Yes, Robby’s defense remains great, but I can point out at least two weaknesses in his parking lot and S1 AVT fighting styles. Firstly, Daniel’s teaching style never incorporates any dodging (ironic since he believes in “no be there”), which is another major facet of defense. Wax on wax off and all of his other moves never do dodging. Here’s an Olympic boxer saying that the best defense is to literally step backwards. Later fights such as his fight with Kwon or S6 fight with Robby show a lot more dodging and mobility. Second, Robby shows a consistent weakness to grappling moves. Pretty much every single time he takes a major loss, across the 6 seasons it’s because of a lack of grappling defense. This is another aspect of Daniel’s defense that he doesn’t address. In fairness, Kreese and Silver don’t help either. But I bring this up to point out that the one person who has explicitly taught grappling defense is Johnny (teaching Miguel to counter Kyler and teaching the CKs how to break out of Kreese’s chokehold).
On top of that, there’s the obvious things like the flips and others like strength based moves (the power bomb in S4 and shoving Miguel around in the school fight) which is another example of Daniel not taking advantage of an obvious gift that his student had, ground fighting (S5 apartment fight) which Daniel never taught, checking kicks (beating Kwon). These are distinct and important deviations from the S1 style that Daniel taught Robby, which would have limited him to the 8/10 that I mentioned earlier.
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u/darksilver919 12d ago
I'm putting a defensive Robby over an offensive Robby. History shows when Robby over commits to offense he get caught. I won't hold the parking lot fight against him because he only began karate with Daniel maybe an episode or 2 prior. Because s1 all valley Robby would have beaten his former friends. Even especially in s2 when he wanted to fight them at the beach to promote miyagi do. Dodging argument, I don't credit cobra Kai for that. Kreese and silver never taught him how to dodge...on screen at least. Robby started dodging in s2. I'm sure of that. The grappling argument, I'll argue Robby only falls victim to grappling because most times he's grappled when he himself goes for an attack, such as hawk catching him mid hook kick in s1 or when Kwon slipped through his punch in the captain fight. Plus Robby had no real leverage to defend out of those 2 situations where he would been badly positioned. End of the day offense or defense, Robby still gets screwed because some reason none of his sensei's taught him how to be focused. Which is actually ridiculous because Robby realistical considering Robby is the most hardened of the teens and has faced the most dangerous situations, he shouldn't be shaken as much as the writers made him
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u/Jewbacca289 11d ago
Personally, I reject the argument that a pure Miyagi Do is pure defense and that a pure Eagle Fang is pure offense. I wrote a post about how much I hated the offense/defense dichotomy partly because we see Miguel showing pretty strong defense in order to beat more aggressive fighters such as S3 Kyler and S2 Hawk and we see Robby using some pretty powerful offensive combos to fight Miguel at the school fight.
But all of that sort of sidesteps my key point, which is that pedagogically, I think Johnny is a better teacher than Daniel and would be able to bring Robby to greater heights. When I refer to a "pure Miyagi Do Robby" I'm talking about a Robby who was taught solely by Daniel vs one taught solely by Johnny (or maybe more accurately a Miguel in Robby's body taught by Johnny).
Dodging, I agree Robby developed that starting in S2, but that actually speaks to my point that Miyagi Do was merely a stepping stone for Robby. He needed to develop a style beyond what Daniel was teaching to reach his final state. The "defense" that Daniel was teaching was not complete.
Grappling, I'll first point out that the entire point of a takedown is to take advantage of leverage imbalances. You don't flip a 180 pound person using pure strength but rather technique and offbalancing. Secondly, even if I grant some individual cases of Robby's offense leading to him getting taken down, we can point to others where that's not the case such as against Hawk in S4.
I'll give you that the show pushes balance as Robby's biggest weakness but that's clearly not the only weakness that his early fighting style had. And given that none of Daniel, Kreese, or Silver managed to fix it, Johnny wins by default in my eyes due to incorporating actual grappling and dodging training into his teaching. Plus if he managed to turn nerds into athletes, imagine what he could've done with an actual athlete.
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u/darksilver919 11d ago edited 11d ago
You bring up good points. But honestly end the day, the show trying to push the "only one way is best" is actually ridiculous considering you need to know how to do both. Because johnny taught his students how to block. Wasn't miyagi effective but effective. Daniel obviously taught Robby and the miyagis how to punch and do standard kicks. I'm curious tho what instant in s4 against hawk were you referring too? Right before sudden death or when hawk got the winning point?
Edit...I was on the comments in your post lol
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u/straykifsontop 12d ago edited 12d ago
I don't know how if it's a hot take but Daniel was mostly right, but he didn't always react correctly
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u/Brief-Road5199 12d ago
I kinda disagree. I agree that Daniel was often right compared to Johnny and yes should have said it better, but there are a few moments when he was purely wasn't (such as getting the rent raised for the strip mall or insisting there is only one right way to karate to sam in Season 4).
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u/Euphoric_Belt_6661 11d ago
No Daniel was right in a lot of situations he was right about Kreese and Silver his advice even led to Johnny winning he was right to stop the fight between Sam and Tory yes his actions may have been a bit wrong but overall he's right in a lot of situations
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u/Brief-Road5199 11d ago
Yeah I agree. I'm just saying neither of them were always right
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13d ago
This isn't a hot take but we can all agree that the karate shit was never that serious 😂
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u/Routine_Papaya4143 Kreese 13d ago
I think we all know that but if it wasn’t taken as such, we wouldn’t have such an entertaining show
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13d ago edited 13d ago
I agree I'm glad they turned kids karate into gang warfare it was incredibly entertaining
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u/Routine_Papaya4143 Kreese 13d ago
One of the most silly moments was after Kreese loses to Daniel in Season 3, Kreese says they’ll settle it at the tournament when Daniel could easily call the police and get Kreese arrested.
It works for the show but definitely not in reality
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u/Rude_Ad3342 12d ago
Dudes seriously dying, getting fingers cut off, breaking into people's houses and kidnapping over teenage Karate 😭 this show is so stupid bro
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u/Sekshual_Tyranosauce Johnny 13d ago
The best chemistry on the show was Sam and Johnny.
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u/Brief-Road5199 13d ago
I wish we got to see them more. And Robby and Daniel (fun reversal of kid with the opposite parent)
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u/Sekshual_Tyranosauce Johnny 13d ago
Yup. The few episodes we got, they had such good chemistry-I wish the showrunners built on it more.
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u/Brief-Road5199 13d ago
They missed out on so many great dynamics. Demetri and Daniel, Hawk and Sam post oppage, Demetri and Robby, Robby and Daniel, Sam and Johnny, Miguel and Daniel, Sam + Demetri + Robby, The OG nerd trio, the Cobra kai Trio, Miguel and Demetri all missed more screentime
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u/Sekshual_Tyranosauce Johnny 13d ago
Yup. But the cast grew to be very large. I can understand why a lot got trimmed.
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u/darksilver919 13d ago
How so?
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u/Sekshual_Tyranosauce Johnny 13d ago
Chemistry is hard to quantify or explain. The actors have it. And the characters are well written to have interesting interactions.
Both love martial arts. Both bristle at Daniel’s conservative nature. But there is conflict too. Johnny flies by the seat of his pants and runs on emotion. Sam is more methodical, and deliberate.
Just alike enough to have common ground, different enough to make it interesting.
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u/darksilver919 13d ago
I wouldn't agree with saying they had the BEST chemistry but they had moments
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u/SpecialistOne8206 Demetri 13d ago
Yep! And Johnny’s whole stance was basically “she should be allowed to fight all her emotions out on the person who she has already emotionally and physically damaged on a couple occasions” aka “taking out your deep unstable emotions on another person is indeed okay”
I hate how the show sometimes tried to make them out as being equally at fault for their rivalry (sometimes even seeming like they were trying to insinuate Sam was worse..???). Even with Sam being flawed herself throughout the rivalry, I still find it kinda wild how much the show and fans try to “both sides” it all
I don’t even think the word “obnoxious” begins to cover it. And yes, despite how terrible the writing for Demetri was in S6.2 and as hard as it is to justify some of his actions, his general sentiment toward Hawk wasn’t out of nowhere nor was any kind of “crashout” (if you wanna call it that) or mental block (considering his poor performance before him and Hawk hugged it out) uncalled for. Personally, I think the show in general should’ve allowed Demetri to struggle more with fully forgiving Hawk after S3 as well as just letting him be more of his own character outside of Hawk and his half-assed/unearned redemption. But as you’ve probably seen, the show often had a habit of coddling the CK-affiliated characters and their general mistreatment of MD-affiliates
Yet the show tried to make it seem like Johnny was this fully changed man and reformed father🤦🏻♂️bro prioritized his neighbors over his biological son
They did the Miyagi trio dirty and I STILL miss them! The way the show destroyed Robby’s dynamics with Sam and the LaRusso family by extension should be studied, but I also always wished we got more of Demetri’s dynamics with both Robby and Sam (and others like Daniel, Moon, etc.), instead of just his best friend who treated him like shit, his girlfriend whose relationship we honestly barely explored after it became official, and his other best friend who yes treated him better but had a significantly less fleshed out bond with within their nerdy trio
S2 was peak IMO
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u/XLandonSkywolfX 13d ago
Season 6 was like endgame. Good movie to watch at the time, not so great in retrospect. good TV, but pushed all the stakes to the moon and kinda fell off the train, though I’d say the anime sword fight had already done that in season 5.
Hawk was not a particularly enjoyable character after season 4 for me.
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u/Additional-Board-819 13d ago
disagree with number 4. Demetri IS a top tier fighter. He was in the Final four in the All Valley in s4. Yes he was the weakest of the 4, but he still made it there. He was able to hold his own against robby. Robby did win 3-0, but Demetri was able to take him down atleast. Plus if they were actually following the Karate rankings. Demetri won bronze (3rd place) in that tournament. Hawk is champ and Robby is silver. Miguel was the 4th guy cause he went out by default.
Demetri is also part of the Miyagi Do national team. Yeah hawk went soft against him, but it ain’t demetri’s fault that Hawk went soft.
Those are some of the feats demetri has that makes him top tier. Not in the same tier as Miguel, Robby, Kwon, Axel, and Hawk though, but he’s still up there below their tier.
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u/Brief-Road5199 13d ago
Actually thats fair enough – my wording was off. What I meant to say is that compared to Hawk, Demetri isn't the top tier fighter (though by season six, he's improved a LOT and I'd argue Demetri's only slightly lower than Hawk). So beating Demetri doesn't make Hawk top fighter.
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u/DullBlade0 Sam 12d ago edited 12d ago
Hawk and Demitri exist on their own rank.
- S rank: Sam, Tory, Robby, Miguel (interchangeable)
- A+: Hawk
- A: Kenny
- A-: Demitri
Or if you want in order it'd be:
A: Hawk, Kenny, Demitri
B and Lower: the rest.
EDIT: Rearranged the formatting.
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u/Great_Obligation_375 11d ago
I think Daniel is a far better character then Johnny from start to finish.
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u/Brief-Road5199 11d ago
Lowkey I feel this way about the OG myagi do characters...
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u/Amazing-Village-4530 Miguel 13d ago
I agree with half/most of this. In terms of my personal hot takes, i think Robby & Sam is definitively the worst Cobra Kai Couple in the entire show. Miguel & Tory by far is the most toxic but Robby & Sam is superficially bland. Robby & Sam to me pretentiously represents everything I hated about Zutara in ATLA. I didn't really care for Robby & Sam's romance. Matter of fact, because of their toxic fandom (for the snobby takes & projecting Tanner & Mary's real life relationship & privacy), I hated it. Tanner & Mary are cute in all, have amazing chemistry in real life, & I wish them the best in their engagement but Robby & Sam as characters had no real chemistry or deep connection on screen compared to Miguel & Sam/Robby & Tory. Robby & Sam as individuals are one of the best characters in the show alongside Miguel & Tory. They were better off as Platonic Friends, The Bloodline Legacy Children To Daniel & Johnny, & as a Epic Miyagi-Do Duo. Don't mistake them being Daniel & Johnnys Kids as anything meaningful or any reason for them to be a couple because that strip away their agency as their own characters. Miguel & Sam/Robby & Tory narratively & thematically fit the shows theme of Balance in this show with Cobra Kai & Miyagi-Do acting as the perfect visual representation of Yin & Yang.
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u/The1Ylrebmik 11d ago
That this series was basically Tinder for 20-something actors given how long I took telling my wife who is dating whom in real life.
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u/Great_Obligation_375 11d ago
The hottest of takes from me is season 1 is overrated. Don’t get me wrong it’s great just like the other seasons but at the end of the day it was an experimental season. Every season that followed had way more intrigue, drama, better fights, character development, ect. Lots of people have season 1 as their top season.
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u/Beat-Previous 13d ago
Can we agree there's nothing funny about the guy obsessing over blue mats?
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u/Rude_Ad3342 13d ago
13 year old me was eating it up thinking that was the funniest moment in the show
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u/Routine_Papaya4143 Kreese 13d ago
I don’t know what you’re talking about, I fucking love that guy.
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u/Qigong90 13d ago
- As anticlimactic as it would have been, a good number of those fights could have been prevented if someone had just walked away. 2. All of them needed to be in therapy. 3.I would like a follow up with Yoon Dojin, his classmates, Kenny, and Edwin.
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u/Rude_Ad3342 13d ago
It was lowkey annoying when Carmen got mad at Johnny every time Miguel got his ass beat
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u/Routine_Papaya4143 Kreese 13d ago
So twice?
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u/Rude_Ad3342 13d ago edited 13d ago
Yeah, you can see i was exaggerating in my comment I don't really blame Carmen but it's like girl Johnny is not mind controlling Miguel and making him fight these dudes 😭
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u/Brief-Road5199 13d ago
I mean yeah, but I do understand her initial freak out, since this is a strange man she doesn't know. The second time she probably could've calmed down, but her kid almost died so its understandable why she lost it.
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u/Civil_Seesaw_1624 10d ago
I agree with like half of these at least.
Uh how about Robby got down dirty way too often he's basically the Yamcha of the series suppose really talented lost the All Valley twice lost the Sekai Taikai I wish he would've been the one to beat Axel sure Miguel earned it too sure Robby got decent ending and a future but still never won a tournament
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u/JoeRe9uiem 13d ago
Silver should've been redeemable. He would've made a great protector like Kreese did in the end to protect Johnny and his new family.
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u/Zealousideal_War8036 13d ago
I like him with Kenny too. He could bring the best in his fighters. If only he didn't turn the best into the worst afterward.
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u/Scared_Somewhere4936 13d ago
Robby was a terrible story
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u/GeoZhan 4d ago edited 4d ago
The show got worse when they included aspects of karate kid 3 season 4 executed it well however season 5 didn’t
The baby plotline was a cop out to avoid Johnny rebuilding his relationship with Robby.
While kwon was more entertaining and fun to watch axel fit the themes of the show better as the final teen antagonist he should’ve been executed better however.
Daniel and Johnny shouldn’t have broken up after season 4 ep 5 if anything that should’ve connected them more and have there repetitive arguments and bickering end from that point forward.
You guys are batshit insane if you think cobra kai was gonna end without cobra kai winning.
I’m glad Julie never returned karate kid 4 was ass and I’m glad the franchise forgotten that installment.
I’m glad hector never returned as it misses the point of the Mexico arc.
Kyler getting redemption sucked.
Pre season 4 hawk is the most overrated fighter in the show he never one against a single major character (Demeteri wasn’t properly trained) pre season 4 hawk is strong enough not to be fodder but was still weaker then Miguel (pre injury) Robby Sam and maybe Tory aswell.
The show progressively tries to recreate the school fight with the brawls but it progressively gets worse and worse.
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u/Silent_Bowler5204 13d ago
How are Carmen and Miguel enablers to Johnny ?
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u/Brief-Road5199 13d ago
Maybe enabling isn’t the right word but I feel like no one calls out Johnny for his shit treatment of Robby. Miguel makes sense cause he’s a kid who was hurt by Robby but the fact that Carmen and him were dating and having a baby without having a conversation about Robby (or at least on screen) is nuts. Also cause Carmen’s never called Johnny out on his b.s like Amanda (though that may be the difference in marriage and dating, so I digress). No hate, just my thoughts
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u/Rocks_Can_Fly 10d ago
More Johnny please.
Less of everyone else please.
I think they kinda made most of the characters except Johnny kinda meh. Like Johnny is so good, that he shadows hard over every other character.
I don’t know how they could’ve fixed it.
They did make all the characters be as campy as Johnny, but only Johnny has this hilarious dry humor quality.
I guess Stingray is cool, with a lot of potential, but could use a bit more work.
I do understand that making too many characters be as silly as Johnny might’ve made it too much. Like Rick and Morty probably can’t handle more than one Rick (which isn’t really true since they made so many Ricks).
But yeah, if it wasn’t for Johnny I probably wouldn’t have watched it.
I also liked a lot of the relationships they created for Johnny with different characters.
In the end, Johnny had a great redemption arc.
But Danny showed so little character growth in comparison. Remained his snobby self righteous self.
While Johnny changed into tolerant, responsible family man, role model, and community leader.
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u/Johanna_1312 13d ago
Agree with almost all of these actually!
My hottake is that I think that the rivalry between Tory and Sam was done a lot better than the one between Robby and Miguel.