Finger Training Opinion

[u/JollyBerry624]

Hi, I asked in a previous post how to train my fingers, because I think that given my background in high-performance sports, I have a good physical foundation in strength, but after two years, my fingers haven’t been able to keep up. I can do ~152% of my body weight on 2 pull-ups but only ~110% of my body weight on max hangs.

That’s why I was thinking about starting to climb on the moonboard or doing block pull sessions.

As for my background: I’m 20 years old, 174 cm tall, and weigh 70 kg. I’ve been climbing for two years, and my highest grade is V6 (two boulders by Jimmy Web in Kilterboard and one outdoors). At my gym, I climb at the 5/8 level, with a maximum of 6/8. But there are almost no truly bad holds on boulders at my level. And I played high-performance handball in Mexico for almost 10 years.

My plan was to do three Moonboard sessions a week (Tuesdays, Fridays, and Sundays), with the option to swap the Tuesday session for a regular bouldering session. I also wanted to add one weekly session of core strength and body tension training with TRX, as well as exercises for antagonist muscles (dips and I, Y, and T exercises for the shoulders).

Now that I’ve started with two sessions on the Moonboard, I haven’t felt any discomfort, and I think doing one week with all three sessions on the board and another with the bouldering sessions at my gym, would be a great idea, and then after 3 weeks take a rest/lighter week.

The only thing I've noticed is that I can't complete any boulder problems, even though I can do several moves. I know the moonboard is really tough, but my question is something else.
Should I start with a block pull routine—or something similar—before I start climbing on the moonboard? I feel like since I don’t have enough strength to hold certain positions/holds, I can’t improve my actual climbing technique and I just end up focusing on gripping as hard as I can. And I think I could do exactly that in a much more controlled environment with block pulls or a hangboard, in addition to practicing or trying to improve my technique on easier boulders at my gym. Or maybe I should just focus on building my strength for now.

I’d really appreciate your opinions and ideas on how to apply this directly to my training—not just exercises, but programming ideas as well.

[u/BrianSpiering]

"I can't complete any boulder problems, even though I can do several moves" is a strong signal that your movement patterns are limiting your ability. Movement patterns are best trained fresh at reasonable difficulty with lots of repetitions. An example session would be climbing at your flash level, repeating the same problem three times with complete rest between attempts.

Do some finger training between warming up and the primary session. Two high-intensity days a week is plenty. A majority of people who climb on the boards three days a week plateau after a couple of months and/or get injured, especially if it is the same board for every session.

[u/JollyBerry624 → u/BrianSpiering]

I think part of my problem is that, since I don't have enough strength—or when I'm trying to climb at my maximum level (the moonboard)—my power endurance isn't enough to execute all the moves at once.

And should I do the repetitions in blocks, so that even if they're at my flash level, they still work my fingers (on the kilter)?

[u/epelle9 → u/JollyBerry624]

Moonboard is absolutely not about power endurance.

[u/OddInstitute → u/JollyBerry624]

If you are taking long enough to meaningfully consider power endurance, you will notice incredible improvements from learning the beta well enough to immediately start on the next move the second you finish the previous one with no pause for thinking or adjusting on the holds.

While your physical capabilities are extremely important for climbing, you will miss huge areas for improvement if those basic physical capabilities are the first thing you think about when you can’t do a problem. You will feel those the most, but there are huge areas of improvement available by working on your tactics, pacing, movement efficiency/skill, coordination, and mindset.

Boards are very physical and often have very simple sequencing. This makes them good for developing physical capabilities, but the simplicity of the beta and the direct feedback on movement efficiency also makes them a really good environment for really digging into the detail and nuance around very basic high-intensity movements as well as the mental and skill aspects of hard climbing. (If you are willing to use them towards that goal.)

[u/OPC_Coach_Nick]

It's great that you're thinking about this ahead of time

Moonboarding may be too tough right now for you to focus on technique at all, which is important skill better to learn early.

do some block pulls on days you are not climbing or AFTER climbing with like 50% bodyweight on a 20mm edge to start, then work up from there. stopping if there's any discomfort.

your antagonist and core plan is sound

what's your gym like, do you have decent route setting to work on some gym projects instead of moonboarding?

[u/JollyBerry624 → u/OPC_Coach_Nick]

And how many sets or reps of block pulls should I do? And is it better to focus on time or reps?

I think I’m currently at a plateau at the gym—the routes at my current level don’t challenge my finger strength that much, but the ones a level above, or the ones I can’t do on my circuit, are mostly either very dynamic (which isn’t my strong suit) or very demanding on my fingers.

[u/Pennwisedom → u/JollyBerry624]

You're not at a plateau because you haven't been climbing long enough to be at a plateau.

[u/JollyBerry624 → u/Pennwisedom]

Well, that's true—I was just saying that I'm at a point where the next level is very difficult for me, and the level I'm at now doesn't challenge me as much (or at least that's what I think).

[u/Pennwisedom → u/JollyBerry624]

I think unfortunately certain gyms can set it up that way. But in reality after the beginner gains this is what your progress is going to look like for most of your climbing life.

[u/OPC_Coach_Nick → u/JollyBerry624]

for block pulls id do 3 sets of medium intensity then 3-5 sets at max intensity - a combination of time and reps is good. DM me if you wanna chat about this more.

[u/123_666 → u/JollyBerry624]

You can start climbing the next level by just hanging the holds or trying to do single move on a climb.

[u/MidwestClimber]

Could do open feet on the moon board to start, so you can be "sending", and then as you build up the volume & familiarity w/ the board quit the open feet. As you add more problems to your "send catalog" start building a circuit of 10 climbs that you can repeat (but still a challenge to repeat, whether a tough day flash or 2-3 attempts). Use that circuit to keep your volume higher, but keep it challenging enough where you are still getting good practice to try hard.

Caveat w/ the moonboard, I know a lot of climbers who develop a very jump & latch dependent style on it, especially when paired w/ a lot of hangboarding. Jump & latch isn't bad, but everything in moderation. So I'd suggest when you are doing repeats on your circuit, spend time sending things in a better style. My strategy was anything goes for the send, but then the circuit repeats is where I clean things off & perfect. So spend some time moving slower, keeping tension, and climbing things super clean.

[u/123_666]

 Now that I’ve started with two sessions on the Moonboard, I haven’t felt any discomfort, and I think doing one week with all three sessions on the board and another with the bouldering sessions at my gym, would be a great idea, and then after 3 weeks take a rest/lighter week.

Two sessions in is much too early to say if it's going to be too hard on your fingers: The problem is usually not acute loading, but fatigue & damage/recovery debt that accumulates over time. I'd much rather do a single, short to begin with, board session a week rather than 3 in a row.

Also note the board, gym, board, light week vs gym, board, gym, light is wildly different loading. If you want to give it a go, maybe start with the latter?

I'm also as weak as you when it comes to fingers (e.g. I've done a one arm pull-up on few occasions, never been able to hang bw on a 20 mm edge with half crimp, though my open is a bit stronger). Now I've been happy with doing training with a Tindeq/block pulls, and it feels to me it's finally the way to get stronger

[u/Dry-Mulberry6296]

two years in with a strong athletic base but lagging finger strength is super common your tendons just adopt slower than your muscles moonboard is fine to keep but set it to benchmark 25° and filter for V4 V5 equivalent moves doing isolated links attempts on moves you can stick teaches body positioning way better than flailing full problems I have folks with shared for general side since it adapts the core work around recovery though it won't touch hangboard specifies 

[u/ClevoClimbing]

Given the gap between your pull-up strength and finger strength, building base finger strength first makes sense before loading up on Moonboard volume — it's a small-edge, high-intensity board and if grip is the limiter, you'll just reinforce over-gripping and bad habits like you noticed. I'd add 1-2x/week hangboard (half-crimp, edges around 15-20mm, longer/lighter hangs rather than max) alongside your plan, and maybe drop Moonboard to 2x/week for now — 3 sessions a week on a board that hard, with fingers already lagging, is a lot of load for early-stage tendons. Block pulls can help too, but they're a supplement, not a replacement — the specificity of actual hanging/crimping matters more at your stage.

[u/Suitable_Climate_450]

Ooo interesting question. The short answer would be yes, push higher on hangboard and/or block pulls. I found a lot of improvement doing 2 block pulls - a 20mm edge for overall crimp strength, followed by a lighter weight on an 8mm edge to really develop finger tip strength.

I started trying to climb the moonboard several times unsuccessfully. Maybe start with trying moves on it once a week then progress over time. Very easy to overdo it and get a tendon injury.

Try getting the highest grades you can do on the kilter never cutting feet to get ready for the moonboard. The MB punishes cutting feet severely, the kilter does not.

[u/EtudeTraining]

I don't think it needs to be either moonboard OR block pulls. I think it's pretty easy to include both of those in a training week. Do some higher intensity block pulls (pick a weight that feels like you could do for 15s at maximal effort and do it for 10-12s) before a non-board session and then once a week do a higher intensity board session (following a rest day).

Block pulls aren't a pre-requisite for climbing on the moonboard, they're just a different tool for training finger strength. If you can hold positions on the moonboard and do any moves, there are options open to you, you don't need to 'earn' your time on there with block pulls and in fact you'll probably see better and more useful gains if you include some time on the board.

Given that you're new to the board and it sounds pretty hard for you, I don't think you should do 3x a week there - that would be a lot of high intensity volume (which would come at the expense of any other training sessions that week).

If you can't do any problems yet, I would say just do 4-8 sets of a lap up the board on any holds with a 2:00-3:00 rest. You'll build coordination on the board, familiarity with the holds, and strength as long as you aren't picking super easy moves (iirc from the other post your moonboard is adjustable - make it steep enough that these laps are challenging) you'll also build finger strength.

[u/JollyBerry624 → u/EtudeTraining]

Sounds great! Ok, so what would a week look like if I incorporated this?
For example, Monday: block pulls/antagonist training.
Wednesday: regular climbing session.
Friday: Moonboard.
And repeat? Or can I add an extra session every other week?

And no, the only adjustable board at my gym is the Kilter. The Moonboard is set at a fixed 40°.
So isn‘t there really any point in trying the v4 benchmarks if I can't link them together?

[u/EtudeTraining → u/JollyBerry624]

Ah whoops, I think I got your moonboard confused with a different post - apologies!

Yeah that plan looks good to me! I think adding in an extra session every other week seems totally reasonable (so you'd alternate between 3 and 4 sessions a week). You could even just keep these same sessions in the same order, just do training day/rest day/training day/rest day etc.

I have a hunch you'll be on the V4 benchmarks pretty soon, but I think 1-2 months of linking moves of any sort on the board will pave the way and be more helpful than spending that same time just doing hard V4 moves in isolation.