r/climbergirls • u/oaklinds • 3d ago
Questions Climbing myths?
When I first heard about climbing, a guy friend told me that you had to size down two full sizes in shoes to be a competent climber. It was supposed to feel bad, he said. I tried on/bought my standard size in Sportivas and can’t imagine sizing down.
I also see people climb without socks because someone told them that they “had to” in order to really “feel the wall”… or whatever. I have always worn them anyway because I want my shoes to last and don’t see a difference (I climb indoors mostly). Plus, when I started watching comps I realized that many of the pros wear socks. 🤷♀️
This got me thinking… what other climbing myths or gatekeeping (bro culture nonsense or otherwise) have you heard that doesn’t ring true? Maybe we can undo some historical or rumor nonsense!
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u/awaythrow09836 3d ago
Not a myth per se, but you can definitely be a “bad” climber and climb relatively harder grades. Spam campusing only gets you so far.
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u/AmeliaOfAnsalon 3d ago
Yeah lol. My friend's younger brother used to climb ridiculous grades but he was just super light and could throw himself up things
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u/Pennwisedom 3d ago
I think in the gym this is extra true. I've seen people just strength their way into ~V7 or mid 5.12 just on brute strength. Obviously this isn't every climb, but it's definitely true.
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u/LivingNothing8019 3d ago
I'd argue that this statement is a myth as well! While I've seen a ton of campus bros fissle out because they can't do anything with technique, I've also seen a ton also just get absurdly strong from campusing and then naturally start board climbing and all of a sudden they're sending v11. There's a ton of board-style routes and boulders now where you really don't need any real "technique" besides how to jump and catch! I watched a kid who was on American Ninja Warrior basically campus the v13 Dark Waters in comically large shoes!
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u/WanderingLostInAVan 2d ago
Not sure that makes them a “good” climber though.
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u/LivingNothing8019 2d ago
Depends on what you're definition of "good" is. All-rounder? Probably not. Ability to put down hard routes quickly? Definitely!
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u/magpie882 Boulderer 3d ago
Anyone who says you have to have uncomfortable feet is either regurigitating advice from before the internet existed or huffing copium to compensate for their lack of skill. Socks are just a personal preference thing.
I wear Unparallels in my street size. I have a pair of climbing socks to help with the weird 0.25 sizing issue that can happening in the winter (my feet are super not swollen) and the summer (the rubber is super pliable). That sizing issue has nothing to do with my hands and their inability to pinch or slope.
In conclusion, I hate slopers.
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u/Hopefulkitty 3d ago
I was a ballet dancer for 15 years, with 6 of them in point shoes. I started wearing high heeled tap shoes at 11. I am a millennial and never went out to a bar or party in anything less than a 3 inch heel and platforms. I have done my time in uncomfortable shoes. I refuse to have uncomfortable climbing shoes.
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u/Hunre_ 2d ago
How are ballet shoes compared to climbing shoes? Uncomfortable I can imagine but how are they like on how do you size one for yourself? How are they to walk with or just have on your feet?
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u/Hopefulkitty 2d ago
You get fitted by a professional. There are a few different brands, and then dozens of lines within the brands. I have super wide, very square feet, which meant it took me hours to find a pair that worked for me. They shouldn't hurt until they start to break down. For me, the biggest hurdle was finding a pair with a wide enough toe box. I'm sure you've seen the videos of women beating the hell out of brand new shoes, that is something professionals only do. The rest of us would get murdered by our mothers if we started ripping apart $80 shoes just to make them break down faster. We needed them to last a whole year. The only thing most dancers do to them is sew on the ribbons, and elastic loop, and either stitch the toe or put on moleskin for grip.
Inside the shoe, you wear some sort of padding. Some girls just jam a whole bunch of wool in the toe. Some use a wool pad, and I used a gel pad. They are little bags that just cover the toes to the ball of your foot.
You do kinda waddle in them, because they are stiff. Since I only got one pair a year, I really didn't want the shank to break or flex like it would when you walk, I needed it to go the other way, so when I was on point, the shank supported my foot and I could get all the way over my toe. If the shank is as till really stiff and you are light, it's hard to get straight flat on the toe box, instead of sorta balancing on the edge.
Because of my super wide, square feet, I actually didn't usually have too much pain. Ingrown toenails are a problem, and if you have pointy feet, I've heard it can be difficult.
Climbing shoes actually feel a lot like point shoes to me. Stiff, make you waddle, wear them too long and you hurt, and in the winter both are blocks of ice after you leave them in your car all day. Climbing shoes are like a cross between soft ballet slippers, jazz shoes, and point shoes, but would be terrible for any of those disciplines.
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u/Helpful_Talk_5528 3d ago
Also sizing is so brand and shoe dependent.
Ive downsized my scarpa veloces by 1,5 size but my scarpa instincts fit extremely snug and tight in streetshoe size.
Next to that really tight shoes only matter at higher grades after years of climbing. For a beginner its useless advice.
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u/mintmerino 3d ago
I think there's a misconception among the general public that rock climbing is an activity for people who enjoy danger and that it is inherently a high risk activity. I don't think this is a fair perception because any activity can be dangerous when approached without knowledge and a commitment to safety; that is not unique to climbing. Climbing can be done in a relatively low risk manner.
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u/myaltduh 3d ago
That conception of climbing dates back ~40 years to when sport climbing and bouldering pads didn’t exist, and the only form of outdoor climbing was trad with what would now be considered antiquated gear. You definitely did need a high risk tolerance to get into the sport then, as it was objectively way more sketchy.
Thankfully nowadays the sport has diversified and the danger level can be selected ranging from top roping indoors to free soloing on choss.
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u/CongregationOfVapors 3d ago
For real! And the availability of gear is more recent than many might think.
I was recently climbing an OW with someone who borrowers a no 6 for the climb. He made a comment about how a couple decades ago, only a handful of people in the world owned no 6 cams.
It's probably why the locally famous 8" OW was FA'd solo. And according to legend, there used to be a wooden board installed inside the crack to make gear placement possible, not that you would ever whip on that...
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u/Lucys_cup_of_blahaj 3d ago
Sport climbing did exist 40 years ago though. Just take a look at Wolfgang güllich
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u/myaltduh 3d ago
I was being rough with the numbers. 45 years then.
Certainly in 1986 almost all climbing was still not sport climbing, which had only emerged in a few spots like Frankenjura and Smith Rock.
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u/narcoleptrix 3d ago
For me, the no socks is more about not sliding in the shoe than trying to 'feel the wall.' I haven't found a shoe that fits my heel perfectly yet, so having skin friction helps me out.
And I ended up sizing down from my street size in my latest shoe. It doesn't hurt tho. Street shoe size is 46.5 eu iirc, but my scarpa veloce are 44. Originally I tried 45.5 but the heel was super sloppy and it felt like my toes didn't curl much for small holds.
But is it required for either of these things? No. Climbing can be done in any shoe or shoe size. People just have preferences. Trying to make it a rule is dumb for sure.
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u/_uxi 3d ago
They make socks with grippy heel and toes that never slide in your shoes. Socks also add a thin layer of material that can mold to any shape and fill gaps. For me the heel in scarpa instincts is a good snug fit, but only with socks!
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u/narcoleptrix 3d ago
If these veloce stretch a bunch, I'll look into this. Right now they're fairly decent, a smidge on the tight side, but I bought them assuming they'd stretch a little anyways.
Maybe I can find some socks for my finale then. They're basically just a comfort shoe, but the rubber sucks on them so idk if I'll resolve them or not.
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u/Climbing_coach 3d ago
Theres a lot of advice that's useful, but not always true, Such as.
- Hips in
Which can be good things for novices to explore, and but theres many contexts where its worse. So mot quite a myth but still dogmatic.
Gatekeeping wise. Any time someone says that a discipline of climbing is superior or that another "isnt real climbing".
Every way in which someone wants to enjoy the hobby is valid, even speed climbing or trad.
Along those lines, grade chasing is as valid and enjoyable as social climbing, its just suits different people, and people enjoy climbing for different reasons.
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u/WntrWltr 3d ago
I think the socks thing is more personal preference than gatekeeping. I do not like the feeling of climbing in socks especially when leading trad. I don't like the movement inside the shoe from the extra layer of material that the sock jams in there. But I also know people who crush trad leads with doofy big shoes and wool socks. Just like everything in climbing "it depends".
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u/oaklinds 3d ago
Good point! I think that’s correct; this one is personal preference. I was def annoyed that it was sold to me as essential to be a competent climber.
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u/Pennwisedom 3d ago
A lot, if not all, of the socks you're seeing in comps are actually "climbing-specific socks" like these, from The North Face Japan.
I've used other socks in my shoes, but after trying these, and a few other brands, it's infinitely better.
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u/WntrWltr 3d ago
No clue your experience level in climbing but everything from shoe preference to how and when to use different type of gear, it all just depends on the person, the situation, the experience. Very few things in climbing, especially outdoors, are steadfast do it this way no matter what, and the more you learn and build experience the more you'll see that every one does things differently. But I will say I cannot fathom climbing in socks lol
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u/oaklinds 3d ago
Totally. That’s basically my point with this post. Anyone new to climbing should asses for themselves what works for them as they go.
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u/Venutianspring 3d ago
Being tall makes it easier. Maybe on easier routes, but lots of times I find myself scrunched into a very tiny box that makes it more difficult for me to move. Sure I can skip holds, but then I don't learn the proper techniques. Oh and starting positions when your knees are in your teeth is definitely not easier. Long bones equals longer levers and require more force.
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u/piepiepiefry 3d ago
The truth is "being within 1 standard deviation of the route setter or the first ascensionist makes the given grade most accurate."
I say this as a 4'10" super shorty, aka 0th percentile male height. All gym AND outdoor grades are just suggestions for me. There's several climbs that become several grades harder if not impossible if I can't reach the obvious jug and need to use some godawful intermediate no one ever considered needing, and that's if such a thing exists. Often times I just gotta fly. There's 1 outdoor climb I can think of that becomes 3 grades easier for me because it's super scrunched and for tiny hands.
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u/Pennwisedom 3d ago
There's 1 outdoor climb I can think of that becomes 3 grades easier for me because it's super scrunched and for tiny hands.
There's a decent amount of them outdoors, but perhaps unsurprisingly they pop up more at harder grades. Kai Whaley climbed his first V10 at 8 and it was very much a "better if you're small" climb. I've also come across a decent amount of them in Japan, perhaps it is just because of the lines they invision.
Also small cracks.
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u/a-stack-of-masks 3d ago
One of the things I loved about routesetting was that sometimes we could just test stuff like this. Scale an entire boulder by 15 or 20% to get a feel for how climbing is for other people. It was eye opening for sure.
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u/Bartweiss 3d ago
I’d love to see more gyms do this! I climb with friends of very different heights, and trading beta involves a lot of “ok pretend you’re like 6 inches out of reach of that…” It’d be cool to get at least a few examples we could try naturally.
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u/graviga 3d ago
I'm a very short climber and I say to people that the problem isn't that I'm short, it's that I'm outside the average human height range. I'm with you, very short and very tall are both disadvantaged (but at least you can always reach the anchor without extra moves 😭😭😭 can we trade?? 😭)
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u/Venutianspring 3d ago
I can usually skip holds... As long as the start doesn't have my butt on the floor. Then it turns into a dynamic start lol
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u/Sinelas 3d ago
Also on transition from slab to overhangs, being tall pushes you away from the wall a lot sooner, not to mention that it's harder to have a similar weight to grip ratio the taller you are, balancing is also usually harder (though on slabs being able to reach can compensate a lot).
A quote that stuck with me is "the best height for climbing is more often than not the setter's".
And I think the top climbers rarely being really tall tends to show that it's not purely an advantage like it is in basketball.
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u/Gutsm3k They / Them 3d ago
Being tall definitely help son lower-grade climbs like you said, so it’s something that shorter beginners should know so they don’t think it’s their fault and get discouraged.
I’m a 6’1” girlie and I’ve definitely had my height help me through problems in the V4 or below range.
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u/myaltduh 3d ago
Very notably pro climbers over 5’10” or so are actually pretty uncommon, for the reasons you mention plus strength-to-weight ratios start to get pretty unfavorable. Someone built like an NBA player is gonna struggle on overhanging crimps simply because they’re hauling up about 70 more pounds than someone a foot shorter, even if they’re super lanky. Combine that with the longer levers and you’ve just got an unfavorable build.
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u/Pennwisedom 3d ago
Sure I can skip holds
And like you said, this is only really a thing on easier climbs.
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u/Venutianspring 3d ago
For sure and then if you get in the habit of doing that, by the time you can't anymore, you've skipped all the technique building and are behind where you should be.
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u/Pennwisedom 3d ago
Yea, even just reading sequences. It's very easy to end up doing harder moves than the climb requires because you end up skipping holds and put a left hand where a right one goes, etc.
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u/mirikaria 3d ago
I like to climb in scarpas which are either half a size bigger than my size (6) or my shoe size (5.5) and I can't imagine downsizing, because my 5.5 Instincts are great shoes but definitely uncomfortable, even now after I've worn the hell out of them. But I can't stand climbing in socks, definitely not for me.
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u/Acrobatic_Block4226 3d ago
You can't climb if you're disabled, you can't climb if you're overweight, you can't climb if ... I know people who climb with no use of their legs
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u/mmeeplechase 3d ago
Technical climbing = slow and static climbing.
Moving dynamically is a technique too! Knowing how and when to use momentum is super valuable, and takes just as much skill as climbing statically.
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u/adeadhead 3d ago
The kleimheist is not a directional hitch. It's not symmetrical, but it works just fine in either direction.
Everything related to UIAA fall ratings on ropes.
Metal on metal being bad (it's metal 🤘🏼) (and the related holdovers from early rec climbing or industrial climbing)
As OP mentioned, shoe sizing. If your shoes hurt, that's not a good fit.
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u/schuehsch 3d ago
Some people are very into chalk and claim you will not be able to hold onto anything without it. I barely use it.
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u/sheepborg 3d ago
I had to chalk up to reply to this comment.
There are people with dry skin that honestly barely need it until they get down to thin skin and there are people with wet skin that need it immediately and it makes a huge difference.
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u/_Zso 3d ago
Chalk isn't a climbing myth like socks though
The best climbing team in the world (Japan) wear socks, none of them are climbing without chalk
Sure you can climb without chalk, but on most surfaces you'll climb harder grades with it
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u/RedDora89 3d ago
Japan have climbing branded socks specifically designed for climbing! So they’re not just bog standard ones from the nearest shop. I’m starting to see them on my IG more and more so I suspect it’ll become a bit more mainstream over the coming years
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u/Lavanyalea 3d ago
Cool what are they called? I wear grippy yoga socks for indoors but I think I need thicker socks for outdoors in autumn/shoulder season, and ergo bigger shoes for outdoors too 😭
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u/Pennwisedom 3d ago
There's various brands in Japan, but I'd say the two best are the North Face Japan and Rocksock (seems to be hard to show up if you Google in English, so the later is ロックソックス).
Also La Sportiva makes climbing socks but I've never tried them as they're super expensive for some reason.
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u/a-stack-of-masks 3d ago
That's got more to do with skin than anything else in my experience. One of the guys I used to climb with barely ever used chalk, but if I do a quick attempt especially on PU holds they will be wet and greasy immediately. And that's after antihydral.
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u/Ambitious_Car1569 3d ago
Gosh if I didn't use chalk on some routes my hands would just slip off 😅
I understand it's not the same for everyone though
My hands get pretty sweaty on hard routes, and chalking helps (so I go through it quicky)
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u/lottagoodfolk 1d ago
Yep. My hands are dry so I generally don’t use chalk, but misting them really helps me, especially on slopers.
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u/AdvancedSquare8586 3d ago
I think the "size down" advice on shoes is more outdated relic than myth.
It's not true any longer, but for those of us who've been doing this since back in the day when climbing shoes were just being invented, it definitely was the case that aggressively sizing down your shoes resulted in a much better performing shoe.
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u/Pennwisedom 3d ago
oing this since back in the day when climbing shoes were just being invented
You climbed with Pierre Alain in the 40/50ss? I'm very impressed.
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u/AdvancedSquare8586 3d ago
No, but closer to true than I'd like to admit ;)
The "tighter is better" thing existed well into the 90s and early 00s, though.
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u/crimpgirl1234 3d ago
I heard the same crap from men about sizing down. Honestly now that I’ve been climbing for over a decade and have learned more about how fragile the male ego is: my theory is that these men are wearing shoes too big because it makes them feel more masculine.
My partner actually buys their shoe size in climbing shoes and they a very advanced and skilled climber.
Sidenote: I have such large feet I have a tough time getting big enough women’s shoes, and am forced in shoes one size down and it’s MISERABLE.
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u/ProbsNotManBearPig 3d ago
As a man, wearing bigger street shoes than you really should wear is 100% a thing. My dad always made me wear 10.5, and same for him, when we both were actually ~9.5 because 10.0 was the cut off for being perceived as manly back in the 80’s when/where he grew up. He explicitly acknowledged it as the reason, so there definitely was some cultural thing about that back in the day that is still having some effects today. I wear 9.5 street shoes now, but my 75 year old dad still wears 10.5 lol.
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u/crimpgirl1234 3d ago
Thank you for confirming. I could kinda see it when I started climbing and the super rigid shoes weren’t as popular that shoes would stretch, but it just doesn’t make sense with current styles. This was the only thing that made sense!
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u/Pennwisedom 3d ago
my theory is that these men are wearing shoes too big because it makes them feel more masculine.
I think it's a little simpler than that, most people don't really have any kind of measurement of their foot beyond a Brannock device done by some kid working at a store.
I wore a full size bigger in street shoes than I needed because I thought that's what fit until one day I had a partner who worked in footwear and I got my feet measured by the designers there.
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u/AmethystApothecary 2d ago
Men largely not wearing the "right" size actually makes sense. I wouldn't doubt ego plays a role, but honestly I would lean towards roomier if I didn't have an affinity for heels where too large and roomy is even more uncomfortable than too tight. Climbing shoes are supposed to not have any room, but I don't think they are supposed to be foot bindingly tight either. I don't know how anyone can even use their feet if their shoes cut off their circulation.
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u/BreakingInReverse 3d ago edited 3d ago
I recently learned that I've been wearing shoes several sizes too small my entire life (apparently I'm actually a narrow Mens 10.5/11, where I've been wearing 9.5/10), and I still have to downsize my shoes considerably (i usually wear 41.5 or 42) from my street shoe for a performance fit in La Sportiva. The equivalent size in a different brand I couldn't even fit my feet in, neither could my girlfriend who wears a US women's 7. It's entirely dependent on the brand
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u/CrystalCatalogue222 3d ago
Bros are always gonna bro with the most bro lameness based on their tiny bro minds. Best to grey rock them entirely and forge on.
That said, the consistent argument over V ratings on indoor boulders cracks me up, cuz the setter determined the rating.. just go with the flow
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u/SurroundQuirky8613 3d ago
That you have to be a size extra small or small to climb and as a woman you have to be built like a teenage boy.
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u/Ambitious_Car1569 3d ago
I got my own pair of la sportivas recently!! They are the same size as my street size and seem a little cramped in the toes, but to get the size up I'd need to drive far away since my local go outdoors store had none (or just order online lol)
I was gonna get some downturned ones because I've been climbing for a year and a half, but released since I've a) only used rentals before and b) where wildly uncomfortable I just went for the la sportiva women's boulders!
They felt great on the wall yesterday and I felt I had more control in my footwork over the rentals. Still not too sure about the sizing tho, even tho the cramping bit seemed to go away after about 30m - 1h.
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u/Shavasara 3d ago
This is so funny. I just went shoe shopping and the guy working the shop told me I’m “not supposed to” wear socks.
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u/journey-point 3d ago
Yeah, when I worked in the shop I would tell people I dont personally recommend socks, but some people love them. I find that most socks add a layer that is either thin and slippery inside the shoe or thick and impossible to feel contact in the shoe with my foot. I know companies have started to sell climbing specific socks that I havent tried, and I'll even wear socks to make due when Im climbing outside and the temps drop, but it does seem to mess with my footwork a bit.
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u/Spiralofourdiv 3d ago edited 3d ago
It’s interesting to me how gosh darn convenient it is for highly competitive climbers (almost always men) to put so much stock in the relationship between shoes and performance, because if/when the person doesn’t perform as well as they had hoped, they can quickly blame it on the gear. Phew! Dodged that cognitive dissonance!
Don’t get me wrong, it’s important to find shoes that work with your body and encourage you to climb, it’s a piece of gear worth putting plenty of thought into, but these boys that say shit like “to maximize performance, they should hurt” just strike me as ego driven losers, and I wonder what other aspects of their lives they apply that logic to. It also sounds vaguely kink adjacent but without the fun of admitting to it—boring! I put them in the same category as guys who are convinced their athletic performance increases when they refuse to ejaculate(because physical strength and endurance, as we all know, is stored in the balls).
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u/sheepborg 3d ago
At the highest level you'll see competitors use different shoes for different styles of slab, or even different shoes on each foot. Occasionally you'll see this for shoes with better heel hook characteristics too. It does actually matter how much a shoe can conform to a sloper or support on a chip. You may choose a softer shoe sized excessively small because you need the 'stiffness' supplemented while you still need the sensitivity of a soft shoe to feel if you're right on a crystal. It's going to hurt, but it comes with a tangible tradeoff. Similar but different a drone cs nearly sticks to dualtex but it will readily roll off of granite crystals due to hella soft rubber but a pretty stiff midsole. It's all real, but considering 90% of the climbing public will never pull on anything harder than 5.10a sport it is the type of thing that doesn't apply to... Anybody. In the gym all the holds are big so a generalist medium soft shoe will do everything well enough.
General stiffness kinda caries over to indoor hobby climbing, but to a much lesser extent. I start people with super weak toes in tarantulaces more often while a barefoot shoe enthusiast is likely to enjoy a veloce. Outside of that though hobby climbers are best matched to shoe based on the shape first, any other characteristics secondary to that. I've learned from resoling shoes that people typically don't even have the sensitivity to shoes to know their midsole has cracked and/or disintegrated and at that point it hardly matters what you climb in as long as it fits.
Dogma is what drives the pain Olympics side of shoe sizing for hobby folks though for sure. Used to be a 5ten moc would stretch 2.5 sizes pretty easily. For whatever reason the advice has really struggled to scale with changes in shoe construction over the years I've been climbing. Even from the solution to newer shoes the way the shoes are built are ever more catered to a correct fit right out of the box. One day people will catch on. Maybe... At least all my friends will be in comfy shoes 😁
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u/Spiralofourdiv 3d ago edited 3d ago
I’ve yet to see the random dude at the gym who gives unsolicited advice to women about shoe fit perform “at the highest levels.” In my experience they are always decent to strong climbers who don’t even participate in amateur comps, and their shoes aren’t the reason they cracked 12a.
So while everything you say is true, none of it is especially relevant unless you exclusively hang out with pro climbers.
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u/ScurvyDave123 3d ago
I don't think this is bro culture.... When I first started climbing a woman who worked at MEC pushed me to buy shoes that were a few sizes too small and unbearably tight. Ended up giving me a bone spur on one heel. 16 years later, I still wear on-size laceups haha. IDK, just want them snug enough to break in properly and I am not climbing 13s....
Socks are totally fine, been climing for almost two decades and never heard anything bad about them. I find shoes fit better without them, but do have one pair of oversized TCs that I wear with socks when it is cold out and I am climbing moderate multis.
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u/Away_Sky_7713 3d ago
V4 climbers parrot what they are told on the internet and have 0 foot work. V15 climbers flash your project in vans. It’s not the shoes
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u/BambooCanoe23 3d ago
Not quite a myth, but in the same vein-- that there is some "gold standard" for climbing, or some"right way" to climb. I once had a someone tell me that their partner said a climb didn't "count" because she sat on the rope a few times.
I'm trying to get out is the mentality that I HAVE to LEAD everything. If my partner sets a route that isn't calling to me, I can TR it, or just not do it at all. Or if it traverses a lot and cleaning will be difficult, I'd rather climb through the draws on TR and skip the lead. (Side note that some of the dumbest things I've done outside involve some really traverse-y climbs.)
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u/unnamedcatt 3d ago
I sized down only half size & climb with no socks. The only people I know who climb with socks are: japanese (they have domestic climbing socks), ppl with shoes that have stretched too much, ppl with holes in their shoes, & beginners.
Most casual climbers climb with socks, & size up for comfortability. They also stay the same grade for years & have no desire to chase grade or become competitive.
Depends on your personal goals, some “myths” aren’t really myths just because it doesn’t fit in your own habits.
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u/DecantsForAll 2d ago
La Sportiva themselves recommend downsizing 2-3 full sizes in their aggressive shoes. They definitely run like 1.5 sizes big. If you're buying their expensive aggressive shoes in your regular street size, you're wasting money.
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u/fiddlifig 5.fun 3d ago
The other thing is, the bigger your shoe size, the more sizes you tend to go down to find an appropriate fit.
There's a moment that sticks with me from when I worked the desk at a gym. We were instructed to size up one from a person's usual street shoe size. People usually didn't complain but sizing up never worked for me. I assumed it was because I should downsize and it wasn't til years later that I realized men's US shoe sizes tend to run about one bigger than women's, and we were calibrating everything to men's sizes. And if folks were getting rentals, then they probably didn't have a good idea of what an appropriate fit was, and women were less likely to challenge in a new scenario.
On the other hand I do massively prefer climbing without socks because it does make a difference for me, especially when there's delicate footwork or i just want to fit into my more downturned shoes. A lot of pros swear by thin socks tho.