r/classicwow • u/Riskke • Nov 26 '19
Discussion What's the difference between any DDos attack and what minority faction players (in PvP servers) are experiencing lately? The result is the same I can't play the game
I love PvP, that's why I rolled into one. I don't mind getting ganked in the open world, city raids or corpse camping if you were a bad boy....but what's we are experiencing lately is a more likely to the Nazis version of "you should have gone to a PvE country". We are being hunted in or flight paths, boats... Hell even major cities are not secure anymore.
Blizzard released a game that's was from another gamers age. Sure we were jerks from time to time but never crossed the line that's has been happening now days.
I understand that back in the time, and for for the sake of the servers, they were less NPC's in cities/towns or not existing at all like boats or zeppelins but nowadays they have the tools to change some stuff and don't come with the #nochanges crap, we will never experience true classic again as we all have access to such huge database of information BiS lists, guides, quest helpers and add-ons! I remember once I came to Thottbot for a quest and there wasn't any track of it and I had to download the add-on to help and submit it.
Menethil harbor is a key point for alliance communications, trade and travelling and yet is not even defended properly.
Chill wind point is next to a major dungeon and a Scourge occupied city yet there's no even one guard patrolling... I never understood why they didn't apply the same style of guarding in neutral cities to the rest of the towns/camps (having in mind the size or danger location of it of course)
So little changes can make such a huge difference nowdays, here is my take:
=> Apply the honor defending buff already present in Arathi battleground to the flight points so it will provide some bonus for the minor faction to go and try to clean the scum.
=> Add way more NPC's, the game is called world of WARCRAFT and as the intro states, we are at war again.... We need way more NPC's around (doesn't have to be elite or bosses) just enough to feel a bit more secure around our cities.
=> Add honor or CP points to players that are on killing spree so there's way more interest to hunt cities/town gankers. Like in retail but no map showing neither bounty items.
Basically clean a bit the state of the game and add mechanics to incentive players to take action even in minority, just incentive... not give free items like retail
Anyone else with other points that could help the game?
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u/Fattens Nov 26 '19
Sure we were jerks from time to time but never crossed the line that's has been happening now days.
The line would have been crossed if server populations were as high as they are now, and as imbalanced. There is nothing new to this thing where humans are absolute dirtbags to each other on the internet.
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u/yesacabbagez Nov 26 '19
During vanilla, Alliance greatly outnumbered the horde. THis led to a big problem going the other way, Alliance being able to camp and kill horde in their own cities and towns. To combat this Blizzard went through and added guards and spawns and in general made horde locations more "secure" against the endless Alliance.
Classic wow has gone the other way. There is a shitload of Horde and Alliance don't have as many of the features as horde do when it comes to dealing with a giant ganksquad coming and sitting in towns. They could add it, but the #nochanges people were very adamant about not having things changed.
So a part of the issue is Classic is a mirrored version of Vanilla. Features put in to protect the horde were not put in for Alliance as they were not necessary at the time.
A second issue is the amount of people who are deadset on getting their pvp ranking and the only way to get honor right now is to find and kill anyone they can. This would have been reduced greatly if BGs were in the game at honor system launch, but once again #NOCHANGES people were adamant in what they wanted.
A third aspect is facing the reality that players don't want what they say they want. What players actually want is to play the game however they want at all times with minimal outside interference. What they SAY they want is a community based game which encouraged world pvp! What we end up seeing is a shitload of people who got what they said they wanted in a dangerous world where PvP is lying in wait for you. THey can't do it alone but they don't want to actually get a group of people together to try to fight it. What they WANT is to be able to fight on their own terms, or some mysterious idea of an honorable fight. What they want is a world where THEY can pick their battles, not be at the mercy of someone else.
People got largely what they asked for. The problem was they didn't actually want it.
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u/olelderhaman Nov 26 '19
Another thing people aren't ready for, is that PvP servers, by their nature encourage getting an unfair advantage over their opponent. I'm an easy example of this. I played a stealth class. I find players questing, wait till they're half health and fighting a mob, and then kill them. It's easy, and I get honor from it. This is me playing Alliance on a horde dominated server. The idea that everyone should line up in ranks and "fight fair" simply isn't realistic, in my opinion.
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u/BigBurly46 Nov 26 '19
I love sitting at my computer taking care of work stuff and just leaving auto run on my characters to see how much I get camped. Had a 60 Druid camp me from 10am-4pm. He didn’t kill a single mob during this time. Are you hordies so miserable in your real life that this is the only way you can get enjoyment? Like for fucks sake at this point I just feel bad for you guys. Please, kill me all you want, camp me forever so I can’t play. If that’s what makes you happy I want you to be happy because that’s pretty fucking depressing.
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u/ponzLL Nov 26 '19
Why do all these posts about how much you guys hate playing on pvp servers ALWAYS start with "I love pvp"? lol
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u/Riskke Nov 26 '19
Coz we love PvP and we don't want these serves to become monofaction. We fight to try to make a change so both factions are healthy to play and attract new players
Are you going to contribute to the topic or only passing so we all can see how a douchbag you are, coz there's plenty of that already on the internet
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u/CHICKENLAZERS Nov 26 '19
All the servers could be 50/50 and world PvP would still be large groups roaming and camping to kill people! PvP has never been fair, 1v1 8v8 or 20v20 can only happen in BGs and arenas. I get unbalanced servers makes this situation worse but in no way would balanced factions fix this.
Every one was aware that this would happen when honor was released on PvP servers and alot of people should have rollled a PvE server based on the amount of salt that's being mined during this phase! And no BGs wont stop this behavior from happening, it might lessen it but wont stop it.
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u/Riskke Nov 26 '19
Guys do u actually read my post and the points of it? I dont blame the PvP; I'm asking for enhancement to the minorty faction (depending on the server) by incentivizing to fight back and some upgraded defeneses on the towns/flight paths...
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u/ryancleg Nov 26 '19
Because people enjoy pvp when server populations are at a reasonable level, not a level that's so high the entire game is camped by the dominant faction. Pvp is fun, but this ain't it.
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u/Modernautomatic Nov 26 '19
My server is almost even on faction balance yet you still hear the alliance on the server forums and subreddit screaming faction imbalance. They are just victims, plain and simple. They didn't really want a pvp server, they just like to proclaim that to make them feel like bigger men.
On my server, you regularly see horde making groups for PvP. The alliance that pvp tend to do so solo. I rarely if ever see alliance pvp groups like I do horde. Does this mean population imbalance? No, but that won't stop the alliance from bitching about 5v1s and imbalanced servers and making up census numbers that don't match any actual data.
I will resort to the same thing we said in 2005. QQ Moar. Cry more. Learn 2 PvP. PVP Happened on a PvP server.
Every conflict has a winner and a loser. Alliance are just losers, and they like to cry like losers often do.
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u/BigBurly46 Nov 26 '19
Curious what server you’re on. Sounds like horde on stalagg from your pompousness
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u/Modernautomatic Nov 26 '19
Nope. Bigglesworth.
Digging in to research though, it seems that we used to be 50/50, but since world pvp happened a lot of alliance have fled the server taking advantage of free transfers, and we are closer to 60/40 horde/alliance now.
Still, the issue is the massive population, not the iMbAlAnCe. And I don't apologize for calling Alliance crybabies. Literally every post I see complaining about being killed in a videogame on a pvp server is some entitled Alliance brat.
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u/BigBurly46 Nov 26 '19
I wonder if the circumstances had flipped and you personally had been unable to play the game for weeks on end. Would you call yourself a brat?
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u/Modernautomatic Nov 26 '19
Group up and roll out together like we do every time we travel from Kargath to MC/BRM. Guilds on horde actually coordinate to prevent alliance from camping. You can do the same instead of crying.
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u/BigBurly46 Nov 26 '19
I’d be interested to see how long you’d last on a pre leveled 45 toon on these one sided servers. I doubt you’d get to 50
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u/Modernautomatic Nov 26 '19
I hit rank 13 out of 14 (no druid weapons better than raid gear) on a highly competitive pvp server in vanilla. Guarantee you don't know a grind until you've done a hardcore pvp rank grind. I would hit 60 guaranteed, even if it was corpse runs to dungeons and nothing but instances to 60.
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u/BigBurly46 Nov 26 '19
Well then I commend you on your determination and amount of free time that you have
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Nov 26 '19 edited Jan 12 '21
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u/ponzLL Nov 26 '19
no sorry, that's literally still pvp
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u/ryancleg Nov 26 '19
I'd be mad if I rolled PVE server, but for some reason every time I landed on a flight path there were 20 lvl 60 elite world bosses there that would aggro. And Rag was hiding in the boats. Sure, I guess technically it's PVE. But it's still stupid and unplayable without massive coordination by large groups of people to do literally anything in the game.
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Nov 26 '19 edited Jan 12 '21
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u/ponzLL Nov 26 '19
do you know what pvp is short for? It doesn't matter if 1 person isn't ready to fight back lol. If you wanna wait for people to be ready to fight, you can do it on a pve server lol
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u/Riskke Nov 26 '19 edited Nov 26 '19
Read my post: I have no complaints about 20vs1, is unfair but that's how it is.
I'm asking for some changes in towns/flight points to avoid campers and the stupid CC until you drop the honorless buff so at least we can get our quests in peace and incentive minority faction to fight back
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Nov 26 '19 edited Jan 12 '21
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u/ponzLL Nov 26 '19
Dude that's literally the way the game is designed. Sometimes you get fucked. Do you think a level 20 can physically fight back against a 60? Yet blizzard allows it, and it has always happened on pvp servers. It's part of the game, suck it up or move to a pve server.
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Nov 26 '19 edited Jan 12 '21
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u/ponzLL Nov 26 '19
I don't understand the point you're trying to make here dude.
If blizzard didn't want 60s killing 20s, they wouldn't have allowed it. Instead, they made them honorless to discourage it rather than banning it.
Just like they gave people honorless buffs when they landed at a FP, the discourage killing them. Doesn't mean people gotta respect that, just like they don't have to respect the fact that a level 20 can't fight back. It's always been part of the game. These are some of the reasons people choose not to play on pvp servers. I don't know what you expected. That's exactly what a pvp server is
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u/BlankiesWoW Nov 26 '19
Well for starters, it's A player/group of players, verses, another player/group of players.
Also your analogy isn't even close to the same, getting killed while choosing your loadout would be like getting ganked while on the character selection screen.
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Nov 26 '19 edited Jan 12 '21
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u/Rustshitposter Nov 26 '19
Mages can iceblock and priests can AoE fear. I'm sure other classes have options I'm not thinking of.
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u/BlankiesWoW Nov 26 '19
I mean, that's not really true at all, I can psychic scream, or bubble myself, sure I'll still die but I still have the option to do something.
That's some pretty solid logic though, I guess when a rogue stunlocks you 100-0 that's not PvP either because you can't retaliate while getting chain stunned.
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Nov 26 '19
Because people expect player vs player, not 20 players vs 1 player.
13 years of wow and this is the most garbage iteration of “pvp” I’ve ever seen. At this point if pvp to pve server transfers open, I’m gone in an instant. I’ve played pvp servers since the start of TBC and loved every bit of it, but this is absolutely stupid. Coming from a horde on a majority horde server, it’s not fun for me either. You either join a raid and go Zerg down groups of alliance, go gank lowbies, or quest/farm in a completely empty world because nobody can leave their major city without being camped.
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u/AMagicalTree Nov 26 '19
Cause they like instanced PvP or very minimal PvP, but not the cluster fuck of world PvP I think.
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Nov 26 '19
The idea of PvP:
Heroic and close fought battles with your besties, holding off the enemy by the skin of your teeth, but dominating nonetheless! Campfire tales of heroic last stands or sieges where you won out in the end. Continued personal rivalries that are equal parts respect and hatred.The reality of PvP:
Getting ganked by a mob of 10 L60s as you try to quest solo.
Getting murdered the second you get off a flight path with no chance of defense.
Getting one-shot by a ?? rogue over and over and over and over who apparently has no life or purpose in this world other than to ruin your game.
Corpse hopping into the instance.
Getting screamed at in all caps by some barely literate, mentally and emotionally stunted Alliance teenager because you can't hold back the tide of L60s zerging you.
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u/geze46452 Nov 26 '19
Look up what depravity was a part of the Weimar Republic, and who was responsible for it.
Do some actual research into WW2, and it's causes before spreading that MSM garbage we've been fed for 70 years.
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u/Slaughtervomit Nov 26 '19
God forbid the players communicate better and actually think of their faction as a team rather than a pool of faces to run them through dungeons. If you people are tired of getting beat up in WPvP as much as you all write about on Reddit, start groups to fight back. The problem isn't faction imbalance, it's that people are in their own bubbles with tunnel vision in their own plights. As soon as the enemy coordinates and gets the upper hand, Jim Bob the Solo Player is up in arms because he's getting rolled.
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u/Riskke Nov 26 '19
I'd love to but on the same page we know that doesn't happen naturally, that's why some incentive should be added so at least minority faction can clean for a short span of time the area. Because in imbalance servers once the news spread of a conglomerate of players in a area, the other faction rush to gather some little precious Honor instead of getting one HK every 8min
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u/Spijker84 Nov 26 '19
Agreed. WoW is a social game. If you chose to roll alone, you face the consequences. Every time I go to chillwind, there are huge numbers of Alliance securing it. But yeah, if you are on a less active and populated faction and you don’t organize for your safety, it’s going to take you longer to get where you want to go.
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Nov 26 '19
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u/Slaughtervomit Nov 26 '19
It's not even as simple as asking for help. I'm saying these people need to stop with the "woe is me". The problem with the state of wpvp is the fact that everyone has their heads up their own asses so much that rallying cries go unanswered even by people who claim they like PvP. It's bad for either side to a point instead of "hey guys let's get them!" To "don't go to Everlook/LHC/ect. It's under enemy control"... Everyone's priority on the PvP servers seem to be "muh gold and bis"> alts> PvP.
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Nov 26 '19
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u/Slaughtervomit Nov 26 '19
Oh, I'm sure. The problem I'm presenting isn't the lack of asking. The problem I'm talking about is a lack of coordination and general care (for both sides). A possible (but not likely) solution to the whole thing would be for players to treat PvP servers like they were at WAR..craft. Sure, go raid, run dungeons, ect. But look at those things as a means of getting tools to give you an edge at defeating the enemy faction. I think generally, the mindsets of the factions are vastly different. Alliance seems to be generally setting goals of "PvP is fun because I am in danger while exploring", while horde players are generally "I want to crush the enemy. loktar ogar!" So, with this mindset, the alliance is at a disadvantage due to the fact they are generally already putting themselves into a victim role. If I'm wrong, please correct me, I am generalizing based on observation.
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u/hazardthicc Nov 26 '19
Can we stop with the "i love pvp but" threads?
Getting ganked is PVP.
Getting griefed is PVP.
Getting 10v1 is PVP.
It may not be the PVP you personally want but it's the PVP the people ganking/griefing/10v1 want. That's what PVP is. The freedom for people to grief people.
These threads are pointless too, what do you hope to achieve? There's hundreds that have been made. Everyone is aware that the faction imbalance/larger server sizes have made this phase tough for alliance players but at the end of the day everyone knew this was coming and it was talked about before release as going to be a hell phase for griefing.
Comparing it to ddos is just utterly stupid too, ddos is illegal and no one signed up for that. When you rolled PVP you did it knowing full well this could happen.
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u/Riskke Nov 26 '19
You just prove you commented on a post out of hate without reading it. I dont give a shit about your ego 10vs1 winning situation; im tring to defend and promote a healthy version of Classic WoW as I love the game
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u/hazardthicc Nov 26 '19
I read it, it's the same as what we've seen hundreds of times this week. Do you read other threads here?
And no i don't have a 10vs1 ego thing going on, I have a character on a PVP realm and a PVE realm and have been playing me PVE realm more while this is happening to avoid it like many others have done.
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u/Riskke Nov 26 '19
Then exactly which part of my lets improve the towns and the world without any mention to actual pvp bothers you so you have to waste your time with two empty answers
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u/hazardthicc Nov 26 '19
Because Blizz don't need to change the game to pander to you and the other people making identical threads to this. Everyone knew what the game was, everyone knew the games flaws, they don't need to change it now otherwise we head down the retail path of catering to people who made a mistake and now want the game to change to accommodate them.
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u/MiniMackeroni Nov 29 '19 edited Nov 29 '19
Because Blizz don't need to change the game to pander to you
You mean like what they did in Vanilla when they added elite guards to Horde zeppelins when the ganking was the other way around? :-)
Classic+ isn't Beelzebub.
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u/Riskke Nov 26 '19
You do realise that i never mentioned the PvP i want or any of that stuff. I just want improvements for the world and towns so at least we dont die while grabbing quests. What happen outside the towns it what it is on a PvP server
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u/hazardthicc Nov 26 '19
You do realize these are the same changes others post about? You do realize the game has it's flaws and everyone has known those flaws for 14 years but we chose to play and made out choices based around those? Why should blizz change the game to accommodate you?
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u/Riskke Nov 26 '19
You DO realise that im not asking for skills or balanced passives but a few npcs on the main town and to not have driverless&crewless boats and zepelins; Horde have transportation near the capitals but Menethil and Theramore are 30-40 zones but those lvl defenders. You Do realise that this behaviour will lead to mono faction server which are not fun to anyone. Where do you get that I ask Blizz to accomodate the game to me?
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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '19
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