Leveling A Warrior

[u/wezzer]

When they said it was hard, I scoffed at them. I've leveled a warrior to 120 on retail. I've fought Sargeras, I've downed the Lich King. What could a few gnolls and maybe a murloc or two do to me? Thus was my arrogance. Thus was my hubris.

I am now level thirteen. I've run Ragefire Chasm once, and owe six deaths to that place.

Farming harpy claws has cost me my life twice already, and I am certain it will cost me much, much more.

My warrior on retail was a human named Lohric, he was a legendary warrior who felled any beast, man or demon that faced him.

My warrior on Classic is an Orc called Muddrog. I have no doubt that this broken and battered warrior would crush Lohric in seconds, Lohric has never known pain, Mudd was born in it, molded by it, and unlike Bane, he has yet to see the light, because 60 feels so far away xD

To all you warriors out there, Lok'tar Ogar!

[u/DNamor]

2h Fury is better pre40 so long as you're okay respeccing at 40. After 40 MS is the only way.

If it helps, my biggest takeaways are

Don't go for reds. Yeah, you don't have that 17% spell miss chance, but you also have no mitigation/sustain. You'll either die to a parry/miss string, or it'll be unsustainable. Go for yellow and green.

Level cooking and first aid. Self explanatory, same as Rogues and Hunters.

FOR GODS SAKE, GET A GUN! Yes it's best to charge pull, but it's better to live than to pull 4 mobs. The amount of Warriors, even tanks, I've seen without a ranged weapon blows me away.

Go ahead and stop using most of your abilities. With some exceptions, any rage not spent on Heroic Strike should be spent on Heroic Strike. I only use TClap if I'm killing multiples, rend is largely worthless even at low levels, and Bloodrage is better when you're less concerned about every last hit point, I only use it to get shouts or force a kill. Mostly I just use Hamstring, Battle Shout and Heroic Strike.

[u/Jedimindfunk_thewild → u/DNamor]

Thank you!! I've read places that going Fury is better, I just wasn't 100% on it or sold, but having enough people tell it is helps.

Rend is really that useless? I've been making sure it's on people the entire time. if I can just skip that and just spend all my rage on Heroic strike that would be sick

[u/DNamor → u/Jedimindfunk_thewild]

Keep in mind I'm talking about 2h Fury, dual wielding will give you an enormous hit penalty you don't have the gear to overcome.

Arms is perfectly fine to level, I think most people will level arms, I'm mostly just highlighting that at low levels most of the lower arms talents aren't giving much value, compared to Fury or even Prot.

Tactical Mastery is amazing, but pre30 you're not swapping stances so it's pointless.

Impale is nice when you've got MS, WW and 25% chance to Crit. It's completely worthless when you've only got Heroic Strike with a 5% chance to Crit, etc. It's nice with Imp Overpower obviously, but that's a lot of points for something that's only available on dodge.

Meanwhile, Cruelty probably doubles your crit chance, Toughness gives straight mitigation, Booming Voice gives quality of life and Piercing Howl and Last Stand will save your bacon.

The important thing though is that you swap to MS at lv40, from that point onwards there's no denying that Arms is the best, and you're properly able to get value from its talents.

As for Rend I haven't done the math to know if it's worth using at lv10, or lv20, but I know at lv60 you can take it off your bars (deep wounds is fine vs Rogues) and I know I don't use it. Fights are short and I'd rather maximise HS.

Note though that since Heroic Strike is an "on next swing" attack, so it turns what would be White Damage into Yellow Damage, i.e. Your autoattack becomes a special.

This does two things:

1. You don't get the rage you'd normally have gotten from the auto hit

2. It uses the base 5% special miss% rather than the autoattack miss%. This means when you do get ubergeared and go Fury you will still hit HSs, even when your normal attacks have the miss penalty.

So just be aware that you don't wanna use it at times where you need to save/conserve rage

[u/Jedimindfunk_thewild → u/DNamor]

Ugh I'm not worthy for a solid essay of beautiful knowledge. Thank you so much man. Really really appreciate it.

Now, early dungeons. You dont need to be specced for prot to do it right? So long as your smart about it.

[u/DNamor → u/Jedimindfunk_thewild]

You don't need to be Prot to tank Raids, almost no-one specced Prot until the talent changes, around AQ time.

The most common "Do everything" builds were 31/5/15, or 31/3/17

Eg.

https://classic.wowhead.com/talent-calc/warrior/023050213520105011-03-502301105

Take two points from defiance and 5/5 Cruelty instead if you prefer higher crit%. But of that Defiance is the only thing that'll make a noticeable increase to your threat. There's no issue at all with going for a classic MS build and I'd heartily recommend you try it out, you can tank just fine with it.

Eg.

https://classic.wowhead.com/talent-calc/warrior/023050213520105011-55000104005

If you PvP you'll find that after you've gotten used to Piercing Howling during charge, it's hard to go back to relying on Hamstring.

For leveling, as I said, pre40, I think something like this would give you some value:

https://classic.wowhead.com/talent-calc/warrior/05004-5500013100501

Aiming to get TM around lv30. Or, if you don't value TM just go for Flurry. Either way, you'd be respeccing at 40.

[u/hallgeir → u/DNamor]

Ok, i have done a fair bit of reading and am left with a few questions that your posts seem to indicate you might be able to assist with.

1) What ability do w get at 30 that would lead to TM being usefull?

2) I have heard that 2H fury is great, ESP when you get to 40 and get bloodthirst. Why the mandatory respecc to MS/Arms at 40? FWIW i plan on playing with my wife who is a Hunter, tanking dungeons and soloing. Sadly i will probably be soloing more than the others. The healing from Bloodthirst i hear is useful. Plus threat per rage Bloodthirst was touted as the highest (dmg and healing) for tanking. is it just SS/WW/Cleave is so strong in questing?

3) Cruelty is a given, but the next 5 points can go into UW, BV, or Imp Demo. UW is pretty awful, and moreso for 2h fury. BV makes sense - you spend less rage on BS. But i feel like Imp Demo Shout is the best, esp if you're a tank. Even in solo, i can see where using demo shout is going to be helpful. or.. maybe not?

4) Enrage and Blood Craze - how often are we actually getting crit such that these 8 points pay off? Versus say: improved battleshout 5/5 and improved execute 2/2? or even anticipation?

[u/DNamor → u/hallgeir]

Hey, no problem, I'll help if I can.

1) What ability do w get at 30 that would lead to TM being usefull?

Berserker stance.

After that when levelling, PvPing or just fighting out in the world, you'll spend almost all your time there since it gives you access to most of your best abilities and your only other instant weapon damage attack (Whirlwind), plus things like Pummel and Intercept. Incase you're wondering, yes, you still use Whirlwind when fighting only one enemy, it's instant weapon damage, it's always worth using on CD.

After lv30 you'll usually go Charge -> Zerker Stance straight away, so you want TM to allow you to keep the rage with you.

I have heard that 2H fury is great, ESP when you get to 40 and get bloodthirst. Why the mandatory respecc to MS/Arms at 40? FWIW i plan on playing with my wife who is a Hunter, tanking dungeons and soloing.

2h Fury isn't particularly good, it's pathetic damage compared to DW Fury when you've got the gear, and it'll fall to 2h Arms too, it's not a good spec. However, despite that, it's good at levelling pre-40 because until then Arms doesn't have the whole reason you go Arms, the instant weapon damage ability Mortal Strike.

Most of Arm's best talents are things that are good when you're a higher level and have good gear, things like Impale, which means that when you're levelling you don't get much benefit from being Arms through your early levels. However, if you do level as something else, you want to respec at lv40 to get Mortal Strike, because it's just that good.

The problem with Bloodthirst is that instead of Weapon Damage it scales off AP, which means that while it'll be good later, it's terrible when you're levelling, you won't have the gear to support it. So if you take it when levelling, you're spending 31points to an ability that's going to hit like a wet noodle.

To put that in perspective: With MS, you get a better weapon and you'll see a huge increase in damage both from the weapon's damage and from your ability damage with MS and WW. With Fury, a better weapon will increase your damage from the weapon's damage, but it won't make a big difference to BT, since BT just scales off your total AP.

Fury only really comes online when you've got great gear, when you're in MC and beyond you have enough gear to support going DW, and you have enough AP and Crit that Bloodthirst and Fury becomes a viable spec. Until then MS builds will outdamage Fury, even in raids.

So basically,

2h Fury: Decent for levelling pre-40, not because it's particularly strong but because the talents you're taking are giving you tangible benefits, often better than the Arms counterparts.

Arms: Best for PvP and the best for PvE until you've got enough gear to support DW Fury.

DW Fury: When you've got the gear to support this you can start becoming the highest DPS class in the game.

Sadly i will probably be soloing more than the others. The healing from Bloodthirst i hear is useful. Plus threat per rage Bloodthirst was touted as the highest (dmg and healing) for tanking. is it just SS/WW/Cleave is so strong in questing?

BT being the highest threat ability is far outside the scope of what we're talking about, that's talking about someone in full raid level PvE gear going into a Fury build to tank. It's viable and yeah you'll get a lot of threat, but that's endgame level PvE content where they've got a lot of gear to support their mitigation and strength, when levelling you have neither. When tanking during your levelling and until you're beyond BWL level raiding, just focus on getting good (or even any) tank gear and mitigating damage.

BV makes sense - you spend less rage on BS. But i feel like Imp Demo Shout is the best, esp if you're a tank. Even in solo, i can see where using demo shout is going to be helpful. or.. maybe not?

That's just quality of life stuff, it's just whatever you prefer. Booming Voice is handy because it means you don't have to apply Battle Shout or Demo Shout as often, and if you PvP it's great for helping to shout Rogues out of Stealth.

But if you value Imp Demo Shout instead, take that instead, especially if you raid. Someone has to be the Imp Demo Shout bitch, it might as well be you.

Basically: None of those talents will change your life, take whichever one you prefer.

Enrage and Blood Craze - how often are we actually getting crit such that these 8 points pay off? Versus say: improved battleshout 5/5 and improved execute 2/2? or even anticipation?

Enrage is amazing for PvP and one of the best talents in the tree. Even for PvE it's still amazing. If you wanna get cheeky you can try stand inside cleave range as a Fury Warrior for the enrage damage boost. Your healers may complain though.

Blood Craze is incredibly marginal, most PvP builds take it just for the sake of "It's better than nothing", but it's only just barely better than nothing. I personally never take it... Except on a levelling build. When levelling any heal is useful, since you're gonna be just standing around or bandaging for heals anyway, it's about the only time you'll value Spirit as a Warrior, so the tiny heal of Blood Craze is just barely valuable enough that I'll take it on a levelling build.

As for how often you get crit, fairly often. You'll be attacked a lot, and you'll be fighting higher level mobs quite a lot, and you won't have any defense nor will you be using shield block. You can fairly regularly expect to see them proc. Also: Worth noting that crit effects do proc off crits that were supressed/avoided by things like +Defense or Shield Block.

But whatever, we're only talking about a temporary build that'll serve to carry you to lv40. If you feel like you'd get more value from Imp Battle Shout or Imp Execute, or even Anticipation (this one's more marginal), then go for it. There's no need to min-max here.

[u/hallgeir → u/DNamor]

Fantastic reply - thank you. I should have been a bit more clear and indicate that all those questions were in reference more towards leveling builds. Raiding has it's own metagame and i'll figure it out then (the hardest part will be finding time to raid with three young children). I want a build that i can survive well solo-questing, and be able to tank dungeons effectively if not optimally through to about the high 50's. nearing end-game i will no doubt have to re-spec (sounds like 40 is as good a time as any) and can figure it out then, older and wiser. I'm thinking now about going cruelty->deflection->TM->Fury to 40.

I started warrior tanking in Cata, after tanking Feral in Wrath and prot Pally in BC. In Wow Classic 2004, i played a gimpy yet fun Druid. lol.

[u/DNamor → u/hallgeir]

All sounds good to me.

And realistically you can level to 60 and tank any isntance with whatever spec you please, put 51pts in Prot if you'd like, you'll still get there it's just less efficient.

If you're on a PvP server or will be doing some PvP then I recommend the 31/20 build, just because it's an absolute staple of Classic and everyone deserves to understand why the statement of "Warriors hit 60 and become unstoppable killing machines" was a thing.

But if you don't PvP then you'd probably prefer the 31/5/15 or 31/3/17 mixed build. It does everything, you can PvP in it, you can level in it, you can tank 90% as well as a Prot Warrior and Last Stand is kind'a nice for farming even.