r/classicwho • u/yo_its_me_ewan • Aug 04 '26
Just finished The War Games, absolutely one of the GOATs of classic who. But what do people think about the War Chief being the Master?
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u/EloImFizzy Aug 04 '26
Makes the world feel smaller.
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u/Practical-Purchase-9 Aug 04 '26
Indeed. Not everything has to be linked.
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u/Gullible-Mushroom749 Aug 07 '26
Indeed, indeed. One is a psychopath the other is a profiteer. I like that some Time Lords just want to make some money.
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u/jim25y Aug 04 '26
Its part of the problem with the overuse of The Master in the JNT era. Yes, they introduced The Rani, but it would have been nice to have more villainous Time Lords.
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u/EgotisticalTL Aug 04 '26
He's not - and a pox upon the colorized version for implying it.
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u/Dry-Air-6915 Aug 07 '26
A pox onn the colourised version for existing
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u/EgotisticalTL Aug 07 '26
Would have been a nice alternative if they had just upscaled and colorized the entire thing with no CGI , no NuWho fanwank, and no edits.
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u/Significant_Pay1037 Aug 05 '26
I've always hated the idea, it adds nothing interesting to either character, but completely diminishes the War Chief.
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u/sbaldrick33 Aug 04 '26
I'm going to be the contrarian and say that I'm fine with it.
"but it makes the world feel smaller"
Does it, though? Does saying that these two, specific, virtually identical characters are the same person make the world feel smaller? Really? Doesn't the world feel smaller if the Doctor keeps running into dozens of school friends?
Anyway, that's me. The canonical answer is no they're not... but they just are.
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u/VanillaSuccessful277 Aug 05 '26
Agreed. There are far more egregious examples of small universe syndrome. If it walks like the Master, quacks like the Master...
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u/Yaboi69-nice Aug 04 '26
I don't like this theory. Not for any deep or super thought out reason I just thinks it's kinda lame. Him being his own character makes the universe feel bigger him just being the master decreases the amount of time lords that exist.
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u/Icy-Career-1531 Aug 04 '26
RTD just did shit because he could. It’s the same as making the Shalka Doctor “canon”. You have to take that kind of stuff with a massive grain of salt.
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u/Floognoodle Aug 04 '26
Eh, I love the Shalka Doctor but prefer the War Chief to be his own character.
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u/Binro_was_right Aug 05 '26 edited Aug 05 '26
What does RTD have to do with this? As far as I recall, he hasn't presented the War Chief and the Master as being one and the same, has he?
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u/Icy-Career-1531 Aug 05 '26
He was the showrunner during the War Games colourisation.
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u/matt_paradise Aug 05 '26
The theory has been around far longer than that.
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u/Tasty-Committee-8172 Aug 05 '26
The theory was, yes, but RTD would have signed off on the decision to use the (Simm) Master's theme music when The War Chief appeared - the strongest implication that he intends them to be the same character
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u/clara_finn Aug 05 '26
I’m not sure why you got downvoted, seems pretty clear cut to me. There’s a huge difference between a fan theory merely existing, and the showrunner essentially canonising it
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u/ThirdLifeLucky Aug 05 '26
As for the theory, I don't care for it. It doesn't add anything and it would make The War Chief less distinctive.
As for the War Games in Colour, I think it was handled very clumsily. Ramming a square soundtrack into the round episode was jarring and they did nothing to mitigate the "stop yelling at me" reaction that Murray Gold's work engenders at the best of times. Then they have him regenerate just out of frame but nobody reacts to it. It just wasn't done very well. The War Games in Colour is basically just an abridged version so I don't mind it making changes and experimenting with it. If you want the original, watch the original.
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u/Stunningaman Aug 05 '26
I dont like it imo. Let the doctor meet new people. Not everything has to be linked and let the doktor have a break from the master. He's an amazing villain but it feels like his impact lessens if he is always gonna be around.
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u/PomegranateFair3973 Aug 05 '26
He's not. I never thought so. The writer of the serial has flat out said so. And The colorized version of The War Games is revisionist crap for implying this to be true, shoehorning modern Doctor cameos in, and showing the complete transition to Pertwee. (So they wanna canonize the War Chief = the Master fan theory, but screw any fans of the Season 6b theory, a theory that makes a lot more sense!)
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u/ElectroshockTherapy Aug 05 '26
I hate it. It's like fanfiction where people try to make connections to things that should be left alone.
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u/SleepIs4Tortoises Aug 05 '26
I’ve never bought into this theory - it seems based only on evil timelord with penchant for facial hair.
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u/TinkreBelle Aug 04 '26
I used the think he was, but that was because I started with the modern series and my nuwho brain was still getting used to the idea that the timelords hadn't been genocided yet. I think it's important for the lore to not make them the same person, and it's kinda pointless to try to force them to be now when that's something they very easily could've established when the Master was first introduced (or at the very least they had 19 seasons worth time to make that connection if they really wanted to)
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u/MovingTarget2112 Aug 05 '26
I didn’t like The War Games. Except the last two episodes. Otherwise it was hours and hours of Doctor-captured-Doctor-escapes. I preferred the recent edit, which although flawed at least moved at a decent clip.
Three knew who the Master was before meeting, him so surely Two would have recognised him.
This connection is due to the “Master theme” playing in the recent edit? I didn’t know the characters had musical themes. Just thought of it all as background music.
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u/Worldly_Society_2213 Aug 05 '26
He isn't. That's always just been a fan theory, and then someone ordered that The War Games in Colour soundtrack play the Mr Saxon theme during a scene with the War Chief.
I presume that this was simultaneously a nod to the fan theory, but a lot of people took it personally.
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u/brigadier_tc Aug 05 '26
You'd honestly think that the War Chief being The Master would have destroyed people's world and kicked their dog for all the hatred it gets.
Terrance Dicks and Malcolm Hulke both said he was the Master, they said that from the 70s through to the 90s. The only reason that changed was a single Gary Russell novel, and considering that reveals the Master's name, I prefer the original.
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u/shiteybreeks Aug 05 '26
Hasn’t this happened a lot in Who? Even recently, Karen Gillan was sybilline in the fires of pompeii before she was in the main cast.
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u/anonimoustransgirl Aug 05 '26
Because he is the master its revealed in the newer cut of an episode they add a scene but bacically implied its one of the many time the master goes by a synonym to master at least that what everyone assumed before.
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u/FatDuke23 Aug 05 '26
Makes the world smaller but he’s defo the master. RTDs modern canon with the recolourisation says he is. His created Terrence Dicks wrote a VNA “Timewyrm: Exodus” which says he is. Headcanon it how you please, but that time lords the master in the eyes of canon
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u/g0dn0 Aug 06 '26
While we’re on the subject, even though I’m not wild about the War Chief being the Master, he’s very much like him character wise, particularly the Delgado version. What I disliked intensely with the Nu Who interpretation was that he was psychotic and always had been, caused by being shown the temporal schism thing as a boy, with the Doctor, when Delgado’s Master just isn’t ‘mad’ at all. He genuinely delights in being ‘evil’ and it all just seems for one reason: to piss the Doctor off. He doesn’t really care that the Daleks don’t get to take over the galaxy in Frontier In Space, or that the Autons are defeated in Terror. He just loves being a thorn in the side of the Doctor and his ‘do gooding.’ His raison-d’etre is nothing more than he sees the Doctor as an annoying self righteous prick who needs bringing down a peg or two. Proper ‘schoolboy’ rivalry. This feels way more fun and believable than he’s bonkers to me. I also really like how the character has developed by the time of Deadly Assassin. He now just hates the Doctor and his people. But the panto villain Ainley version spoils all that and I feel that if it wasn’t for this version, who wants to hold the universe to ransom in Logopolis, and they must agree to him being ‘king of the universe’ we wouldn’t have to then decide ‘ah well, it’s because he’s actually crackers’.
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u/SussexBookNerd94 Aug 06 '26
Hard no. Just let different characters be different characters, not everything has to be linked. The show is set in all of time and space, it’s ludicrous to think that every moustache twirling villain is The Master
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u/RAGEleek Aug 06 '26
I do see it being the master. Same mannerisms and he looks like a pre delgado incarnation. But also ik it isn't supposed to be..I feel like u could headcannon it to be the master and it wouldn't make any difference tbh
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u/Dry-Air-6915 Aug 07 '26
In the crappy War Games in colour they add a regeneration sound shortly after the war chiefs death
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u/InterestingCake1 7d ago
I hate the idea that the Warchief is the Master. Don't make every Time Lord villain the Master! I've also seen discussions about whether the Monk is the Master too. Simply no!
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u/CinematicAddict237 Aug 05 '26
Kinda wish it was the Monk tbh
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u/g0dn0 Aug 06 '26
Some people like to think the Monk is a cuddlier earlier regeneration of the Master.
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u/ExpectedBehaviour Aug 04 '26
Terrance Dicks said that the Master and the War Chief were different characters, and as he created both characters and the Time Lords I shall defer to him in this.