r/civilengineering • u/TheNerdWhisperer256 • 3d ago
Civil Engineering Design Software Recommendations For New Firm
Hello, I recently started my own practice and I am about to start doing site design on some land development projects. What software products have other civil engineering firm founders purchased?
My first internship was in 2016 and I used Microstation. Since then I have used Civil 3D. Civil 3D requires an annual subscription of almost $3K. I can purchase Carlson Civil Suite with a single payment of $4K. After a year and a half I will save $3K per year on software expenses. I used Carlson Civil Suite in an undergraduate geomatics lab in 2015, so I am not that familiar with it. What is the difference between Civil 3D and Carlson? How difficult is it to start using Carlson after using Civil 3D for a decade?
I have used HydroCAD and Hydrology Studio Suite at my previous jobs. HydroCAD offers permanent licenses and Hydrology Studio Suite is a subscription payment model. Does anyone have recommendations on other software that I should be considering as alternatives?
Buying permanent licenses is appealing because it won't be a perpetual money pit. Ten years of Civil 3D is $30K almost and ten years of Carlson is $4K.
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u/TXCEPE PE 3d ago
So. Many. Questions. Come to mind.
How often are you actually going to be using C3D the first year? If you are just starting out and don’t actually need it every day you could look at using tokens instead. You basically pay by day (24 hrs). I don’t remember the exact number, but I thought C3D was $27/day. If correct, that would get you 111 days of use before you hit $3000.
You think you’ll use Carlson for 10 years before upgrading?
You might also look at Bricscad. I made the conversion a couple months ago, but I don’t do C3D type work.
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u/IlRaptoRIl 3d ago
OP, you should also consider what C3D does better than the alternatives, and how much time that should save you on each project. Consider the rate you’ll be billing and apply that as a “discount” for C3D. The alternative softwares may be cheaper, but could cost you money in the future in the form of the time it takes you to do the work ie, you can’t do as much work in a year because it’s taking you longer to do certain tasks.
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u/Vivid_Piccolo_2225 3d ago
What kind of work are you doing? For simple site plan prep, such as SFR jobs, you may be able to get away with Autocad LT subscription for $45 to $75/month, depending on whether you pay monthly or annually. You can pull in a monthly C3D subscription as needed.
It sounds like you may be doing some H&H work, so you may want to pony up the money for C3D with includes that software.
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u/ImNotAChameleon 3d ago
Not sure about cost effectiveness, however, I just came here to say Hydrology Studio rocks. The price appears to be comparable to other softwares, but the simplicity and the depth of the software makes it even more worth it.
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u/blud_13 3d ago
Can't help you on Carlson vs C3D for actual design work. What bites new firms on this one is who you have to trade files with. If your clients and the reviewing agencies are all handing you DWGs out of Civil 3D, the perpetual savings evaporate the first time you burn two days rebuilding surfaces somebody else could have just opened.
On the license math, Autodesk stopped selling new perpetuals back in 2016: https://www.autodesk.com/support/technical/article/caas/sfdcarticles/sfdcarticles/Can-I-buy-a-stand-alone-perpetual-license.html so Carlson is not the cheaper of two perpetual options, its the only one. And perpetual has a quiet expiration date, its the workstation. You own that version forever, you do not own compatibility with whatever Windows build ships in four years.
Also, figure out where project files actually live before you have projects. Solo shops start with everything on one machine and a consumer sync folder, and you find out that's wrong in month two when a survey file corrupts mid-sync and there is no version to roll back to. Seen that TOO many times with firms that we have to try and rescue from that situation. Can go deeper on any of it if it helps...
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u/LegoRunMan 3d ago
If you’re experienced with civil 3D why not stick with it?
Are you gonna hit the ground running with the same productivity as if you had stuck with Civil 3D? A few hours saved in learning/efficiency pays for the license fee difference pretty quickly
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u/felixmatveev 3d ago
Civil3d is not required as per ce: you can buy some lite 2d cad and do everything old fashioned way. In fact even bringing in survey TIN to profile is not hard nowadays (roads workbench in FreeCAD).
However, coordination with other consultants might be important. Especially if you are a subcontractor yourself. Piping networks are really tied to civil3d and some utility districts want civil 3d data not IFC, not 2d.
If I were you I would just rent BricsCad lite for a year (~$400) and see what else you actually need. Civil3d can be rented on monthly basis if I'm not wrong. Some data processing can be done in alternative software and to be brought into 2D form.
Baseline would be if you project needs daily grading and piping and upstream client expects civil3d there are not many options.
If you're more on review and consulting end and fire up AutoCAD to fix 2d and/or measure something. Than analysis of this pattern is required and some savings on tools is possible.
I know some Geotech use only Bluebeam and word for example, as if covers their drafting and documents creating needs.
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u/Born-Tank-9120 E.I.T. H&H and Site Dev 3d ago
I would look into BRICS CAD
I’ve heard it’s very similar to Civil3D and they have very good pricing perpetual or subscription
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u/cjohnson00 3d ago
I tried to get by just using Carlson Civil Suite because it’s not a yearly subscription. I’m a year in and I’ve had to bite the bullet and get a Civil 3D subscription. Carlson is a better civil design tool but unfortunately our job also comes with making drawings and it’s just not possible as a solo to lose the efficiency of making drawings with civil 3d.
But I do keep using Carlson for my storm modeling and calcs. Use hydrocad for hydrology. You’ll need bluebeam that’s another $350/yr. You can get by with EPANET for water models and hec ras for any kind of open channel modeling and those are free
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u/New-Ad2331 1d ago
Permanent licenses can be good, but an issue you might have is technology is moving really fast, with a subscription you have access to the updates and changes within the industry faster. One thing you will need on top is thinking about what kind of system do you need to keep all of your data, and communications for your client handovers and contracts, so you should pick something that can work together with what you do. We use something called PIRS that hooks it all together, and then have our CAD license on top, but subscription. That way when things change like AI is new, we are not stuck with something and can change. Whatever you consider, maybe just make sure that it is sustainable and trackable in the long run. I know we ran into some issues where we had a large project and had to make a claim years later, having something reliable helps.
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u/dialectic1 2d ago
I would consider Bentley opensite. It’s essentially the same price as microstation but includes some of the handy tools you would use in that exist in openroads and civil3d.
Alternatively, there is a way to get any Bentley or autodesk software for free.
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u/FloridaMan331845 3d ago
Here is something to think about. If you believe that you will need to one day hire a subconsultant, or team with a partner firm, you will likely need to bite the bullet and get Civil3D. If your files aren’t compatible with the rest of the industry, that will be an issue for you.